07 210

Heard news yesterday from a very credible source that a new 210 will be premiering at the expo. Word is its wider, no more chine locking, set up similar to 220.

Hmmmm.

I had never heard of the 210 chine locking. Can anyone confirm this phenomena?? That hull has been around a while and I have never experienced it in mine.

Blek on a wider 210 that look like a 220 anyway.

Are you serious? Do you weight your boat? You've never experienced chine locking? That was the main problem discussed during the pro meeting. I even heard Travis Moye said its the best driving Nautique hes ever driven.

(Message edited by tidalwake0504 on September 12, 2006)

I have never heard of a Nautique chine locking. I own an '04 210, have 2500lbs in it, has never once chine locked.

If chine locking is when the boat feels wierd when you go into a sharp turn with 2000 lbs in it then yes, I have experienced it and been able to drive out of it by turning "out" of the turn slightly.

I mostly considered that when I put 2x-3x the amount of weight in the boat over what the CG sticker says that I may experience some performance and handling issues. Only times I have experienced what I thought might be some chine locking was on very tight turns that I threw the boat into, pulling a rider, with 2500 lbs total in the boat. Seemed to be a driver error to me, or my bad driving.

I have never heard of one flipping though, but people can make them do power slides although I have never tried.

Sad day then if this is the confirmation of the death of a classic boat. Best of luck CC and I hope the wake rules it.

Yeah thats what I meant, When the boat is heavy and you turn, you feel one side dip in a little more than it should out of the drivers control, its easy to stabilize it, but that is what i meant by chine locking. If thats not chine locking than what is? when you flip a boat?! I power turn all the time in my 211 with no weight, full speed, cut it as hard as I can, its soooo much fun!

when you say wider, do you hear if it was wider above the water line or wider deck or wider hull?

Chine lock is when you turn the wheel, but the boat continues a straight path

Wider deck and hull. Its supposed to be a modified version of the 210 hull. Wake is supposed to be VERY similar.

Dig it Colin, i have experienced that first hand. It simply feels like the boat is gonna turn in on itself, not necessarily flip, but it feels pretty wierd. After it did it once, I was fully conscious of it and you just need to gradually steer out of the turn. Too small a radius turn, too much weight, too much cowboying it.

Chine locking is when the boat get's stuck in the turn and either flips or spins out. I guess what we are describing is chine locking. I think its too tight a turn for a heavily wieghted boat. Same thing?? Sure.

But it still isn't a '210'. I am sure if the wake is similar, it will still be an awesome boat.

any word on wether CC is going to keep the old 210 around with different name, similiar to what mc and bu did?

AzWakeBrdr I dont know the details yet on whether they're keeping the original 210, modifying it a little, or just going strait to the whole new design. This is why I cant wait till the EXPO!!!

The tendency of a SAN to tip to port during a turn is NOT chine walking. Chine walking occurs when a boat is riding only on its pad and starts to uncontrollably rock back and forth -- steering is ineffective. It's usually associated with boats with a deeper V and only then at higher speeds.

I've been on performance boats when it's occurred and believe me, it's not a characteristic that a Super Air exhibits.

But isnt that what the article on driving in the back of the new Wakeboarding mag is about this month? can anyone confirm?

big difference between chine walk and chine lock Joe H. You are right about the walking, they are right about the locking.

OK --So what is the definition of chine lock? I've felt a weird feeling (when I'm pulling a tuber)that when I turn to port w/a fat tuber--the boat want's to lean over more than it needs to, which forces me to back off the turn/throttle. Is that chine lock?

Chine lock is when you turn the boat(pretty sharp)and after you are done turning and want to straighten the path of the boat but the boat is not responding and it continues to turn.
SAN does not chine lock,if it did then you would not be able to straighten it out.SAN simply rolls a little too much and gets an unsuspecting driver a quick heart attack but is no big deal.

Thanks Big Ed.

hmm.. my bad in there. Not sure why i read it as chine walk.

I definitely know the tendency to roll to port during a tight left turn, though. I've played with it to some extent and found it won't roll over, even if you let it go (at least in my experience).

I, for one, am pessimistic about a new '210.' I've always been a fan of the classic 210 lines and it seems CC is moving in another direction. I prefer a more clean, classic tower, the shortened windshield, lower freeboard, a narrower & easier to sink hull all rate high on my list.

About the only thing they have right is the new tranny with opposite transition. If I had my druthers, I'd leave the hull the same and gut the interior. Go back to the classic FCT tower, take out the horrible clamshell observer seat and put in snap-in carpeting. I'm sure the 07 will have none of those features.

i agree joe, that clamshell seat is the worst thing about that boat.

I have not been in the new 210. Saw it at Shaun's for about a minute, but never hopped in it.

"I even heard Travis Moye said its the best driving Nautique hes ever driven."

Sounds like someone is full of sh.t

I am told by a source that has been on it that it is 100" wide (beam not wetted surface), the wetted surface/bottom hull has changed, the interior has changed (but didn't give specifics as production design is differant) and that Murray and Watson said that Nautique nailed it with the wake. Also was told that dealers should have info/specs/pictures in 2 more days.

3rd party info, take it for what it's worth.

well of course watson and murray are gonna say that. they are paid by nautique.

wider is a dumb idea. the width (or lack thereof) is one of the main reasons the 210/sante has the best wake + fuel economy.

Joe is exactly right -- ditch the clamshell and put snap in carpeting and it's the perfect boat. And also exactly right in that CC will probably do neither anytime soon :-(

What is the big deal with snap in carpeting? Makes the interior seem cheap.

if they went with a 96" beam on the 220, it seams like 100" for a smaller boat would be counter intuitive... even if it retains a narrow wetted surface, then it seems you would constantly be shuffling weight to balance the wake, much like the classic 210...

It is an option.....You don't have to take it out and when you dirty it,it is easier to clean.

If you know you are going to dirty the boat or use water ballast in the boat(exsesively)take out the carpet.

In the winter people can keep their shoes on.

I wish my X2 had snap in/out carpet it simply give you an option.

let me copy the post that I agree with 100%...

wider is a dumb idea. the width (or lack thereof) is one of the main reasons the 210/sante has the best wake + fuel economy.

ditch the clamshell and put snap in carpeting and it's the perfect boat.

Have never worried about messing up the carpet. It dries, vacuums, cleans up just fine. Don't like fiberglass in the interior, gets scuffed up, looks cheap. I would rather have a plush interior. Just my $.02

Here is the scoop! 98" beam mini version of the 220, hydrogate, and a scaled down version of the 220 interior, it has the higher freeboard like the 220 too. I will post pictures as soon as I am allowed. The wake is rampy like the 220, the 210 as we know it is gone.

again, i wonder how a 98" beam boat is a "scaled down" version of a boat with a 96" beam...

Well sorry, I kinda feel like an uninformed douche pulling info from nowhere, but someone(a credible, sponsored nautique rider) told me that information. I've learned its just better to shut up most of the time on these forums anyway, all everyone does is bicker and question eachother. Thought I'd share the limited information I heard. Sorry to misinform, and sorry to Travis as well.

the boat is shorter, that is how it is scaled down. I just asked that very question on the phone and was told they had to make it wider for some reason when they made it shorter...

I never worried about it either just makes it easier that's all.As far as liking carpet is one thing but fiberglass interior does not look cheap by no means.

If fiberglass looks so cheap,why don't you just carpet the whole boat so it looks plush....



















j/k

Wow, if CC is ditching the 210 hull someone should buy the mold from CC! IMO, its still the best wake producing hull in the world.

Ditching the 210 is the dumbest idea I have ever heard. CC must have their heads up their asses. What they ought to do is make the 210 more of a price point boat like the X1 (former X-Star) or the the V-Ride.

Getting rid of the 210 is crazy. It is one of the best boats ever made.

I agree with fuel. I guess they can always bring
it back in a year or two when they realize their
BIG mistake.

Correct me if I am wong, but isn't the 210 one of their best sellers (if not THE best seller)? It would seem like killing the goose that laid the golden egg.

MC's best seller is the 205v and they changed their flagship boat to the current x-star.I think that is what CC is trying to do but with a little less success since people still prefer the 210 over their new lines.As far as MC,I can't say that I would rather have the 205v then the new X-star.I think that is the reason for CC discontinuing the best boat so their costumers have a chance to check out their new line.I can bet they will bring it back after a few years tho.

Lot's of folks who liked the 210 may turn to the X-1 and the VLX and the like.

I'll just buy a used SAN like I've always planned to.

It does amaze me though that CC has consistently dissapointed me and consistently failed to listen to what wakeboarders want. Maybe they're only really trying to go for the crossover market and don't want the wakeboard market? It's just sad because of how far they've fallen in my eyes.

As far as my experience with the M/C line, I way prefer the 205v (your boat, Big Ed), to the newer X-Star (and newer X2). Any day.

I hear you Jeff there are always people that are going to like the old but that is only a few people,majority like the new X-star if they can afford it and afford the gas,me included.

That being said,I will only replace my boat with a X-star if I need more room or get a big family,otherwise my boat is perfect for me.

Every boat manufacturer is trying to gain the family boaters. That is where the majority of the boat purchases are. Face it, the amount of hardcore riders that demand a specific wake are not that many. And if they become hardcore they typically want to be sponsored or get a bro deal...they are not the consumers making the boat companies the money. Families and their friends (the ones out making the mess out of your favorite riding spot tubing or whatever) are what boat companies are trying to make their boats for so the days of making little boats for a guy and a couple of his buds are probably gone. But long live the X1/Xstar/X2/205V...one of the best ones out there.

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quote:

...majority like the new X-star if they can afford it and afford the gas...

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Really?

Thank you, Christy! Someone finally said it. The reason why boat companies seem like they don't really care about the hardcore wakeboarder is because they don't. Why would they cater to a group that encompasses a very small portion of their sales? Does anybody actually think "wakeboarders" drive the wakeboarding boat market? More aptly, people with money who just happen to wakeboard are who these boats are made for. Let's face it, hardcore wakeboarders are generally younger with no family and, as such, usually broke. Why should we expect a boat company to make a smaller, price point boat for us when they're having no troubles selling all the big, blinged-out boats they can make to families and hardcore riders getting a little older with a successful job and kids of their own. Go to almost any lake in America; wakeboard boats are the in thing right now, whether you've ridden a day in your life or not. They're some of the most aesthetically pleasing, loud, stylish, comfortable boats on the water. Towers, racks, and ballast systems are all secondary. It's MUCH easier and more financially lucrative to continue making giant tank-like boats selling for $70k and convincing the buyer it produces an awesome wake than producing small, narrow boats for $45k and trying to convince a family it has more than enough room.

I think this will really pay off for Correct Craft. They'll draw new in new buyers who, before now, never had a CC boat that fit their needs, and, if the wake turns out as nice as the 220, they'll force even more 210 groupies to dish out more money for a Nautique wake. It's a good business decision. CC dealers probably love it too because they can pretty much sell a used 210 without any depreciation.

Jeff is right, it's what they want.

MC did make a great decision by keeping the X-1 in the lineup and offering it in basic and pimped models.

I think you are correct. The family boater will buy the boat that looks the best in the show room (comfort/storage) provided the salesman can make an argument for the wake being "awesome" (i.e. the wake is not publicly known to suck). The family boat will get a test ride, see the wake and evaluate the ride/comfort/storage. Subtle differences in wake are probably not important/realized to most boat buyers.

Trace,YES REALLY!!!

The biggest complaint that you hear about the X-star is....IT'S EXPENSIVE and do you know how much money it would take to run that thing!!


Personally I think if you can afford it and store it.....It has no substitute.
Way more room then anybody can ask for and arguably the nicest wake.You are not going to ride behind a boat with a nicer wake and that has that much room.There is a reason why it's been WW's boat of the year ever since it came out in 03' and you see slowly wakeboarding industry is following in the X-stars footsteps(bigger boats/pickleforks,etc)Back in 03'everbody said that MC is crazy for changing their X-star.....maybe not so crazy after all.

I would never own 23 foot boat so I think MC has blown it in the marketing dept. IMO, they should have two XSTARS -- XSTAR20 (X2) and XSTAR23. The XSTAR is such a great name, they should leverage it twice.

Big Ed, I have to differ from you on the wake. I think the 205v wake is way better than the X-Star. Also the X-Stars that I have driven have not handled as well. I think the WW poll may be a matter of mindset "It's the most expensive, so it must be the best" I wonder how many people who voted for the X-Star in those polls have never been in/driven/ridden behind one...

the reason it is WW's boat of the year every year is because it pulls the pro tour. young impressionable people then reason it to be the best (it may or may not be). the second factor is that people associate cost with performance...those people think that because it is the most expensive, it must be the best (it may or may not be). heck, other riders sponsored by other companies are forced to train behind the x star because it pulls the pro tour...to do otherwise would be seriously handicapping themselves...

bottom line is that parks bonifay is not as good as he is because he is sponsored by MC. rather, he is sponsored by MC because he is as good as he is. MCs marketing is out of control...after paying whatever ungodly amount of money they pay to pull the protour combined with all of their marketing, those costs are passed down to the consumer. that is why you pay $70k for one of those boats--so that they can convince you that it is the best.

True dat Jeff but I seen a lot of experienced riders also claim that the X-star is where it's at.

On the other hand,the people that voted on the X-star and never been in/driven/ridden behind one also thought that it was good enough to vote in 1st on purely the look or whatever,either way it is the X-star they chose.(marketing or whatever)
And Jeff some people will argue that the 205v is a better wake which I can agree or disagree(they are both nice)but this is the reason why I said.....

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quote:

You are not going to ride behind a boat with a nicer wake and that has that much room.

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I love my 205v wake, and I love a 210 wake. I'm one who things messing with the 210 hull is a mistake, but if they did their reserch right all should be good. After all, I have yet to hear a bad thing about a 220 wake, and some of my 210 loving friends think the 220 is the biggest baddest wake out there.

as for mc and marketing, they do their job well. They make killer boats, and they sell a ton of em. cant really bitch at a company for being sucessfull.

I believe other manufacturers were making big boats before MC jumped in with the X star. Now wakeboard specific pickle fork boats, yes MC put that one out there.

It seems to be different strokes for different folks. I could not have a 210 since it did not have enough for the family and gear without feeling cramped. I love Natiques and now that they have the 220, I almost bough one this year.

To be honest, any of boats at this level put out a good enough wake to exceed 99% of the riders out there. People have preferences as to shape, but most can adapt to whatever they are riding behind.

worm, btw, you need to buy a new 210 so I can see if I like the wake or not

Again, just my opinion, but if I were in the market for a 23', after having ridden in, behind, and driven, I would perfer a Malibu LSV over the X-Star. Again, my own preferrence.

I am with Ed on this one. A properly wheighted Xstar has IMO a better/bigger wake then a properly wheighted X1... 2000+peeps x1 3000+peeps Xstar
Yes, I have ridden behind both.

If I could afford the gas (an Xstar runs at 3900 RMP when wighted down) and could fit in my garage I would rather have the Xstar.

It sure is great that there is more then just MC or CC.....having options is awesome!

Jeff personally,if I was looking at a Malibu,I would take the LSV over the VLX any day of the week and twice on sunday.More room and better wake.For me as far as LSV over the X-star,it wouldn't even be considered since the room is about the same and the wake is nowhere near the X-stars wake....again personal opinion.

Wake is the biggest reason why I would go LSV over X-Star. Way more kick at the top.

Ed, I love your posts. Have you ridden both boats (newer LSV, not the old hull), or are you using some online poll as evidence for this too?

Actually,the only LSV I rode behind was J-rod's old Malibu and I believe it was an 01'.Only ridden behind one other malibu with a nicer wake and that was Gideon's Malibu.I think he put like 3,500lbs in it and it was niiiice.Don't know the model tho,it was also 01' I believe?



Jeff,wake is all preference but from your last comment I think you rode behind an improperly weighted X-star.In my opinion it is a carbon copy of the 205v wake just with a longer transition.Same kick at the top,so if you feel the malibu wake has more kick at the top the an 205v then I understand you completely.

(Message edited by big_ed_x2 on September 14, 2006)

Been behind many X-Stars (Bates/Vedels/several set up by Cal Skier for Comps) fully weighted, pretty dissappointed in all of them, your wake kicks the crap out of all them. In contrast, West Coast Camps sacked out a new VLX while I was there, it was a freaking tsunami, huge ramp, lots of kick at the top with the Wedge, one of the funnest wakes I have ever ridden.

Wake is definitely all preference,nothing but that.I'm just glad we as costumers have all the great boats to choose from.

was enjoying reading this post, had to add to it. I had a 2000 X-star/x-2/205v/x-1. Just bought a 2005 x-45. The x-45's wake is literally 3x's bigger than than the new x-1. OK, OK, I am exagerating just slightly, but I have never kissed the moon until I rode behind this x-45. No one mentions it, but x-star (the new one) may be as good but is not better than the x-45. Plus I can fit just over 100 people plus your kitchen sink to clean things up if needed. Oh yeah, if you were wondering what we did with my old 2000 x-star. I keep it in the x-45's glove box, just in case we need to go pick up more people at the dock.

BTW, I just love any DD or V drive boat out on the water with the crew having fun, so really it all is just perception.

How did this turn out to be about MCs and BUs? I want more detail on the new 210, although I am afraid to hear too much if the interior is like the 220. I'd even happily take the clamshell over the Mayan temples.... Just don't screw with the wake.

Christy & Jeff mentioned the demographics of the buyers of the "luxury" inboards. I think we can all agree these boats, MC, BU, CC are luxury items. The manufacturers know that. They're not dummies when it comes to market research and segmenting the population. They know the bigger, more spacious boats will appeal to the boomers who enjoy family sports etc. What is better than getting the family and friends together on the water for a day of fun, sport and relaxation. The big boats will handle the mid day chop, but nail the wakes for the angst filled teenagers to rip it up. Hey, I fit that demographic. CC and MC idn't hi the price point for me. I got lucky with the 06 VLX last month. Way more $$ than I wanted to spend, but I kept the Supra comp for 18 years. The VLX better last me that long!

I have to add, I was not concerned about the lip, curl of the wake, whether it's hard or rampy, etc. I wanted bigger wake and a family oriented v-drive. (I think) I got a pretty good deal. Carl, please tell me Keith was fair!

Back to the subject, though. Did the goof by going to a bigger, wider boat? I don't think so. Of course the numbers aren't in yet for sales. If you don't lie it, let your checkbook tell them.

fb...because it just happens when you say MC or HY...suddenly it becomes BU and CWB.

GD-
(Random thought of the day)
What are your takes on the new VTX this year. Me and you seem to have similar thoughts when it comes to boats. I am seriously considering this as an option this year. I have heard good things about the wake so far and it fits with the narrower/easier to slam/better gas usage idea's all while maintaining simialr interior room to the old VLX/v-ride which is what I have now. Like you , I don't want a bigger boat. Just curious on your thoughts.

Chad

FB- It always becomes an MC Malibu war when Big Ed posts anything.

Chad, I have only seen photos of the interior. It looks really nice minus the windshield. Very roomy for a smaller boat. Do you know anything about the wake? I am looking for something more vert than my VLX on my next boat.

GD

Yeah, my dealer (We are close enough that he doesn't need to bs me) got to demo one and he was pretty impressed (He's a wakeboarder.) He said the one he rode in only had the 4 tanks, not sure on the weight, the power wedge and 3 people. He said it was definitley more vert than mine which is what I am looking for as well. The closer to the 210's wake the better. He also said the interior room is pretty spacious too, more closer to the new VLX or LSV than my older VLX. They managed to keep a lot of room in there. By looking at the pictures it appears they shortened it most in the area of the walk through. Look at how vertical the windshield is.... And about the windshield I am not a fan either, but Brent (He hated the pics of it too) said that when you see it in person it looks a lot different. I am also not a fan of the wedge either. Minimal change to the wake and a lot worse gas consumption. Allthough when I rode in a 05 VLX with it, it seemed to do much better than mine. Only Demoing will tell I guess

He should have one in shortly. There is actually a little supply problem I guess with that windshield and they keep getting pushed back a little. As soon as he gets one in I will give you a hands on impression of the boat. I am hoping to get a test ride as soon as possible. All in all it looks very promising.

Chad

GD - Does your VLX have the Wedge? Love my 210 wake, also love the Wedged VLX wake.

No wedge. It was not available in 2000. My boat's wake is the best with the back heavily loaded. Just not too much such that the boat porpoises and hardly planes. Both kill gas efficiency. The X1 (was X2; was XSTAR) and SAN (was amazing) are certainly easier to make vert.

so whos good any scoop photos form surf expo of this thing?

They are holding it back until the dealers meeting in November.