Law on sunpad use...?

So we were out having a hassle free time on the lake and decided to call it a day, so we headed back to the launch. We were idling around the dock, and proceeded to the dock to drop off someone to back up the trailer. As we were idling towards the dock, one of the members of our crew way laying on the middle of the sunpad. Out of nowhere a sheriff truck towing a boat stormed the ramp and a deputy and another officer came running down the ramp, pretty much like he was going to draw a gun on us. This was the most disrepectful and rude officer I have ever encountered, and after doubting the validity of my boaters safety license proceeded to tell us, after scolding me the driver and the passenger on the sunpad, that he stopped us because it is extremely dangerous for someone to be sitting there, because they could easily fall off and be injured by the prop. He didn't issue a ticket; just left a really bad taste in our mouth about the whole afternoon of boating.

Which brings me to this... has anyone else been hassled by this issue, or have any input on this? I also am questioning if this is a law in MI or not. I understand that the swim platform would be an issue with the motor running, or even the pad at any speed above idle, but we didn't even think we were doing anything wrong here...

What do you think wakeworld?

The thing i don't understand is how you could be injured by the prop when its totally underneath the boat and plus you have the swim platform to protect you. Now if it was an I/O i can see his concern but with a v-drive...

They won't have different laws for inboards than I/O. If it's the law for one, it will be the law for another.
It's a good thing they didn't ticket you because every water citation is a misdemeanor.

Here is Cali you can not be on the sunpad/transom, or standing on the gunnels if the boat is in motion. Not sure if it is the same all over. It may be a local thing, but if it is some kind of Coast Guard Reg, then it would also apply where you are at. I wil ask one of the Rangers tomorrow if I remember.

You got off lucky, ive gotten a $190 ticket for girls riding on the sun pad.

I was at the Bullards Bar launch when this same thing happend to me. The old sherrif guy was practically foaming at the mouth yelling at us.

We were waiting for our trailer, just idling around, avoiding the other boats waiting to be pulled out.

Dave

Ya my friend got a $200 fine for sitting up there for one second while he was waving his friend down!!

I got pulled over on the lake and the sherrif got on my boat and made me show him all my safty gear etc. Then told me that he could take me to jail. This was at saguaro lake in Arizona. I would have thought a polite heads up would have been enough. I think they just wanted to check out the ladies on my boat.

Come on... You guys all know it's not a party until the lake police get there.

Well if you had any kind of railing on the sides it would be legal. Like the older Super Airs have. There is also a law if you are approaching or departing from a dock you can be anywhere you need to be. Of course the person on the back of your boat did not need to be there.

I got scolded once while being towed in (Ran out of gas 50 feet from the marina Doh!) because I was sitting on my swim platform. Even though at that point we were just a dock being towed through the water.

Hey at least you did not get a ticket. Around here the rules are simple if the boat is in motion you are not sitting on the sun pad or gunnel of the boat period.

In florida its the law but it seems the go-fast boats get away with it alot. I just politely mention to new folks on the boat that are sitting there while i'm in motion that I dont care but if I get a ticket they are paying for it...they usually get off immediately

Mike the sheriffs at saguaro are the worst, I cannot say enough bad things about them, Ive been boarded by them aswell and had to show all my safety gear, I didnt have a square throwable but I had more than enoigh life jackets, ticket, I also had 2 fire extinguisers but they werent full, just half, ticket. god i hate those guys.

I beleive that you cannot be on the sunpad or gunnel when moving in Utah as well. I think that the worst possible place to fall off of the boat is in the marina where there is more traffic. You could even conceivably hurt someone in your V-drive if they fell off the back when you were backing up and then their feet got sucked into the prop.

(Message edited by talltigeguy on August 27, 2006)

Too bad they can't be a little nicer about it... and they wonder why so many people have such a distaste for them

Dave (awf axis), I think that same old Sherrif at Bullards pulled us over at the ramp. We had everybody in the boat while we trailered it over to Dark Day ramp from Schoolhouse (about a quarter mile). BIG NO NO! He was pissed, telling me and my buddy to apologize to everybody in the boat. I told him that I didn't know how those people got in there. Can you say T-I-C-K-E-T!

I just got ticket for that at boardstock. I was at idle looking to park the boat.

You know, there really isn't any excuse to not have all your safety equipment, though. I'm not saying the sheriffs or officers have an excuse for being jerks about it, but you're just asking to get hassled if you don't get the required items and leave them on your boat.

Wakeboarders that don't follow safety guidelines just make a bad impression for those of us that do (my opinion). Seems like everyone has a poor enough impression of wakeboarders as is.

We got stopped this spring, pre-memorial day, when the lake was still quiet. One guy sitting on the sunpad/trunks, one guy standing on the teak taking a leak, idling toward home. We knew it was wrong, but we were the only people out there, until this bass boat tore out from one of the small finger bays. It went something like this:

PoPo: "you guys know better right?"
in unison "Yes" heads down fearing a ticket
popo: "not too many calm mornings left for ya, have a good one"

Whoa, could have been an expensive leak

There are a few kinks in the law:

If you are getting ready to ride, the boat may be in motion while you are on the platform/sitting on the pad/transom.

If you are manuvering to raft, anchor or dock, you can be where you need to be to do this properly. If you have a boat hook or mooring line in hand, you cannot be properly cited.

Most of the time, at idle, you should not be cited. Yes, you are making way, but it is in the judgement of the officer if it is manifestly unsafe. Most officers have drawn the line that if a boat is making way, you can be cited. Since most judges don't know maritime law or tradition, it becomes the defacto standard.

Personally, I never enforced that part of the law unless I saw something stupid (small child, standing up, at speed, drunk, etc.).

Are you saying this is illegal???

Not me, just an @$$ that I grabbed a few photos of to get his registration info. He was bringing his surfer into a small cove with lots of swimmers within 30 feet of boathouses and docks. Totally clueless middle age guy showing off for his teenage passengers.

um, the people on the back - illegal
the people on the sides - illegal
and if they want to, they can probably get the driver for standing, which really gets me because everyone in big boats/cabin cruisers stand and walk around, but they don't stop them.

--and if they want to, they can probably get the driver for standing--

Why do you think that standing while piloting a boat is illegal?

because I've been yelled at by police on our lake to sit down, and stopped and told that next time it's a ticket

they even stopped us once for "sitting on your knees" in the seat. This, after they came directly up our wake with a skier in tow, while we frantically yelled and waved them to come up the side. Then, they told us the reason they stopped us was a passenger kneeling in his seat, which he wasn't, and thay next time they'll write us all up for standing up (while we were waving them off of our skier they were about to run down).

But yes, I've been stopped and yelled at as the driver for standing by our local law enforcement.

I would ask what statute requires that vessel pilot be seated when it is underway.

WI boating regs don't define that as illegal and common sense indicates that when the boat is traveling at a slow speed, with lots of bow rise (as pictured) the safe and prudent thing to do is to stand up so that you can see where you're going.

yeah, if I'd ever get to the point that they wanted to write a ticket I'd probably argue some, but as they are just hassling and enjoying their power, I tend to just appologize and go on with my day! I'd rather let them feel good about life than have them pissed and either watching me all day until I do something wrong or finding something I'm in violation of to make them feel happy.

We were at a lake just north of Seattle this weekend and went right by the sheriff's boat.I was standing so I could see and we had a guy on the back catching the rope also one side all loaded down and as I passed the sheriff's(there were two in the boat one driving one with binoculars)just waved back at us after we all waved.

Our lake cops, in Utah, don't have a real seat in the boats they use. They are set-up for them to stand. And the passenger does not have a seat and just stands next to the helm.

number one reason the cops don't want you on the back while the boat is running is Carbon Monoxide poisioning. i was in havasu one weekend where a guy was on the back of a boat cruising through the channel and he was overcome by the fumes and slipped into the water without anyone on the boat noticing . They found the guy later in the week. Just a heads up for everyone, be safe!

I stop a local California Lake Roach and asked him what was legal on this subject. He said "anything in the boat is ok" what that means is if you are in the boat you can STAND anywhere. The gunnals and the sun-pad are not in the boat he said. He proceeded to tell me You can stand in the boat and drive ect. He even said I could have someone on my Diret Drive engine cover and holding on to the tower and it was legal! I was pretty taken back so I asked him again, and he said Yup I know its crazy and it dosent make sence and its not safe as long as your in the boat! His quote As long as you are in the boat your legal! Trust me im not gonna try and test it out anytime soon but thats what he told me.

So I could be standing on my seats holding onto the tower doing 40 mph and be fine? Wow.......

When in doubt ask your local lake roach. I have heard and got lots of great advice here but I would hate for someone to get a ticket because they heard it from W/W. I have been told its on W/W its OK for the driver to have a beer and drink while driving the boat but Im not gonna test it out. LOL

"There are a few kinks in the law:

If you are getting ready to ride, the boat may be in motion while you are on the platform/sitting on the pad/transom."

This is not true in cali. We got stoped on Sat for this reason. We where out on the delta. One of the guys in my crew was puttin his bindings on and we where driftin (and on the Delta this happens fast!! One min. your in the middle next you are sittin on the rocks) gettin close to the shore. The driver put it in gear just for a second and the sheriff came up to us, tied up and started goin over the rules. The driver said he only did it so we wouldn't hit the shore, the sheriff said "than go to a wider channel!" He let us off with no ticket. But he counted ppl, checked for CGA vests, check the fire ext. and made sure we where not brakin any rules! All I know is, its a Damn good thing he didn't start lookin under seats. We had about 1000 lbs of lead, a 500lbs sac in the bow(under all our backpacks out of his view) , MC ballest, and 10 ppl!! We where a lil over the limit on my buddy's X1!!!! But the wake was SLAPIN!!!!!!

TIME FOR A STORY IN OUR FAVOR!!!

So we were out rippin it up Thursday night at approx 7pm the Fish cops were headin in for the dock and we were switchin riders. They slow down and vere for us... damn... HIDE THE BEER!!! hahaha

So there askin us what were doin etc.. wakeboaring obviously and asks about our safety gear..alcohol etc.. I show them everything..besides the booze. And they are just talkin about other random stuff... wasting our valuable time on the glass. Their boat was paralell to ours and she was hangin on to the tower at the front STBD side. And what do ya know the bilge starts pumpin right into her crotch and into there boat!!! It was the funniest thing I have ever seen.... She was trying to block it with her hands so I just pushed there boat away! I wasn't laughing when it happened.. but man when they were gone we laughed uncontrolably!

I am sure they will go to the other side or stay away next time I hope!

THE END

As for riding on the sunpad... I do not know if it is a law in Canada but we do it..... Doesnt seem that our lake police are as strict as you Yanks.

--We where a lil over the limit on my buddy's X1!!!! --

There's no legislated weight limit for the X1 (the coast guard regulations for weight plate/capacity, etc. apply to boats less than 20').

That doesn't mean that he couldn't write you up for unsafe operation but...

CA---
When the motor is running, no person can be sitting above the dexk. This means on the sundeck, or on any side of the boat. It is a stupid law, but the fine is around $400 per person. So just make sure the engine is off or have everyone on their seat.

http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ArizonaRevisedStatutes.asp?Title=5

Title 5, Chapter 3, Article 5, #341:

B. A person shall not operate a watercraft while allowing a person to ride on the gunwales, the transom or the decked over bow of a watercraft propelled by machinery operating in excess of wakeless speed except if:

1. That portion of the watercraft was designed and constructed for the purpose of carrying passengers at all speeds.

2. The watercraft is being maneuvered for anchoring, mooring or casting off moorings.

C. No watercraft shall be operated with a passenger or passengers on the bow in such a manner as to obstruct the view of the operator.

D. No person on water skis, a surfboard or a similar contrivance shall behave in a careless, reckless or negligent manner.

E. Except in case of emergency no person under the age of twelve years may operate a watercraft propelled by a motor of greater than eight horsepower unless the person's parent or legal guardian or at least one person who is eighteen years of age or older is present on the watercraft.

F. Except as provided in subsection E, it is unlawful for any person to allow another person under the age of twelve to operate a motor-powered watercraft.

G. A person violating subsection A, B, C or D is guilty of a class 2 misdemeanor.

I have seen this argued in court twice and in both cases the defendent lost!

In Arizona you can go to jail for a class 2 misemeanor:
13-707. Sentence of imprisonment for misdemeanor
2. For a class 2 misdemeanor, four months.
13-802. Fines for misdemeanors
B. A sentence to pay a fine for a class 2 misdemeanor shall be a sentence to pay an amount, fixed by the court, not more than seven hundred fifty dollars.

(Message edited by bocephus on August 28, 2006)

Brent- that is hilarious

Title 5, Chapter 3, Article 5, #341:

B. A person shall not operate a watercraft while allowing a person to ride on the gunwales, the transom or the decked over bow of a watercraft propelled by machinery operating in excess of wakeless speed except if:

Looks to me that it is legal to have people in these locations if you are driving under wake speeds

^^Thats where I was confused for MI law... thanks for all the input on this one guys.

As for riding on the sunpad... I do not know if it is a law in Canada but we do it

Brent, see Dan(freshtracks) post above yours. Even if it isn't illegal, it's dangerous. I know Havasu is worse than most places for carbon monoxide fumes but they can (and do) happen anywhere. This happens quite a bit, but unfortunately until you have first hand experience of these things it's usually a case of 'that won't happen to me'.

Nice try Rod, but if you are moving they will nail you and say that you are above wakeless speeds and then part 1. I have seen it argued in court twice in cases where the person where docking or getting ready to put the boat on a trailer and lost both times.

Seems to me that if you define it then if it does not fall in the definition, then it is legal. Maybe they should have taken various video of boats docking and at various slow speeds and get the officer to define or the judge to define a no wake. Maybe get statements from a harbor master on the definition of a no wake speed. Maybe have the harbor master there to compare his opinion to the officer.

i thought a 'no wake' or 'under wake' as described in Rod's post would be as slow as the boat can be moving in gear, not just sitting still. But if they say engine running, there's no way out.

Google boating laws in where ever the hell you live. Here in Washington it's illeagal if there are no rails to protect riders.

Sooooo what if you open your locker in back and stand in it haha is that legal since Im theoretically in the boat?

I was stormed by 3 sherrif officers about a month ago counted all my cests wrote down my vin number called it in like I was a common criminal held us up at the dock for about 20 minutes while there were atleast 6 people waiting to launch their boats. I wanted to throw each of those idiots of my boat. Again I had a couple cuties in th boat so maybe they just get their jollys that way

I know the Water Patrol at all the lakes I frequent take a lot of crap. There have been many times I have looked over as they are busting someone, and thought, "you asked for it."

It's not like these guys are writing tickets for speeding, they are looking for safety violations. If you look like you know what you are doing they will leave you alone.

Ha, "not like they're writing tickets for speeding" they sure do! They clocked us with a radar gun while pulling a boarder, the limit on the lake is 40Mph. They're so on the ball, one other weekend we watched them clocking the forest, there's nothing over there but two of them sat clocking it for quite a while

seriously?! Speed limit on your lake.

Move.

I have never even seen our water patrol on any of the lakes I ride on ever, which is very nice.

'seriously?! Speed limit on your lake. '

Slightly off topic, but I saw an article on the news last year about someone getting busted for speeding on Lake Pleasant, AZ even though there's no speed limit. He was ticketted for being reckless as he was doing 126mph.

I guess the cops are gonna bust you for something if they want to.

The speed limit on my lake is 35mph...the only people they ever really pop are the sea doo'ers or the mullet brothers in their big block speed boat.

We had the Sheriff come talk to us when we were in a no wake zone and had a couple laying on the pad. Didn't get a ticket, just told us it was illegal.

Brent, Laughing my a$$ off

i haven't read every single responses above, so i might be stating what's been stated already, or i might be way off. we talked to a delta sheriff (cali) last year and we asked him about sitting/laying on the sunpad while the boat's in motion. he said it's illegal UNLESS the boat has rails (hand rails?) on the sides of the sunpad. then people can "sit or lay back there all they want."

(Message edited by dakid on September 02, 2006)

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quote:

By Brent (mcx2ryd) on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 2:27 pm:

As for riding on the sunpad... I do not know if it is a law in Canada but we do it..... Doesnt seem that our lake police are as strict as you Yanks.

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apparently, they don't care about you canadian riders either.

I knew those ugly a$$ rails on my boat would come in handy one day. Now if I could figure out when teal will come back into fashion.

Bocephus,

What lake was it at? Was "hang 'em high" Hamblin the judge?