You know what amazes me??

Correct Craft is the only company that really gets bashed for their ideas. I don't see any of the other companies taking near the amount of abuse. So why is it?

Tigé gets a bashing too. I think these are just companies that are innovative and unique but people will still express their opinion no matter what.

When you are one of the top boat mfg's both quality and price I think people tend to look harder for faults.

Ok so what about MasterCraft and Malibu? MasterCraft charges more for their boats and claims that they are the leader and pulling further ahead. Malibu's are all over the place and producing more units than CC. Kind of strange to me because then all you hear is that the people that bought a correct craft won't complain about anything because they don't want to admit that they make a bad purchase decision. That is a bunch of crap if you ask me. I haven't heard anyone whining really bad about the wedge except for the people that had damage from them.

I think M.C. sure took some bashing when they introduced the new X-star.
C.C. only gets bashed because they haven't had any good inovations in several years.
C.C. still has industry leading boats so they aren't pushed to make a better boat. I think it is about time for a completely new Super Air.
If they made a new 23foot Super Air with the same great wake and no clam shell seat then I don't think we would here any bashing.

I guess my take is this and it is just a off the hip type of thing.

I experienced it for a fact and I know others have to. You go talk to a Correct Craft dealer, the salesman says our boats are the best, there is nothing wrong with them, and you are getting this boat for this much take it or leave it. Many Correct Craft owners (not all) will tell you they have the best and some even go as far and say they will only ride behind Correct Craft. I can respect that too a point. It is nice to believe in what you sell and own. The sales policy is not too bad of a policy in a way. It is not a bad policy if you are a Saturn Dealer and you already have a cheaper price. When the general public shops, they like to think they are being taken care of. I know that the taken care of thing is kind of a scam too. They tell everyone the same thing to make them all feel they got a deal.

When you say you are the best, your salesmen treat you like you are some 20 year old kid that just walked into the Bently Dealership (maybe over stating for effect)… you are going to get criticized if you do not have the options people seem to want.

In the case of the delta area, people know that going out is a 6 to 8 hour deal and you just can not hang out in the water with the engine off. So, storage, seating and general room means everything. Now, we are also hardcore boarders too. We want a boat with a great wake. I think that is why Malibu is blowing up around here. Sanger also meets those requirements in my book. Supra has some cool storage ideas as well. I do not think that Correct Craft meets the criteria as well as the other boats. Then you go and look at the cost and options vs. the other boats and it is a hard sell. Then throw in the other attitudes of we are the best and I have to have this boat because it is the most expensive, it really sets Correct Craft up for criticism. Most people that buy these boats are on their second or third boat or have already been out in different boats. That means they are fairly educated. They know for the most part what they like and don't and the I have the best boat card does not fly when someone is an educated shopper and know what they want to see in a boat. In the long run, the quality issue may play out for what it is, but, most people cannot see that in the short time they own their boats usually. Master Craft is a great boat, but, they tend to stay off the radar for criticism because they are pretty down to earth at the sales department and they seem to respond better to what the public wants to see.

If Correct Craft put out a boat that matched the features of my Malibu and came maybe a little closer in price and still had that fine details of the Correct Craft, I would be in that boat in a second.

i have to chime in and point out that there actually are one or two cool CC folks out there, like Simon at central valley marine who never once put pressure on me when i was making my decision (unlike the malibu salesman, or the MC or supra punks who couldn't tell me a thing about their boats, but could only bash competitors). also everyone at the West Coast correct craft service center up in rancho has been great to deal with. Like most people here realize, it really comes down to the sales and service people in your area. That's what made the CC an easy decision for me over the malibu (next time around I'm going to give Tige a chance and try also try to check out different MC and supra dealers).

It's unfortunate that there are those folks out there who feel they have to act the way Rod describes (not to mention any names, like HAMMERS MARINE). also i've noticed that the owners that tend to act that way are the ones who didn't do their homework and WAAAAY overpaid for their boats... just my experience though.

and yes, the clamshell is stoooopid but it makes for a nice sub enclosure, and it's louder since it's not sealed off... gotta try to make lemonade somehow lol


Wes

thread hijack "on"

Wes, is that sub free air?

thread hijack "off"

nope that's a custom box...

I want to hear the new system Wes.

Wes is one of the quality Natique owners with a very nice boat. I value his opinion. I have had a run in with Malibu and have had good luck in the department as well, so, I am by no means a Malibu ownership goggles guy. I am cautiously neutral. I had a great experience at Boat Country in Escalon, CA dealing with my boat issues. Fairly simple deal, but, the details that we discussed were followed and there was no miscommunication. They have indoor facilities to keep the boat during service and it is closer than the other dealers from Disco Bay.

I know the attitude I speak of on the sales experience has caused a couple of missed Nautique sales that I know of personnally.

I am intriged by the overall cost of ownership and warranty. The warranty thing is huge. I just found out my 6 year warranty (even though the sales guy said it covered everything) only covers the engine for 3 years after the stock warranty is over. I am screwed on the two minor interior items I need fixed. Maybe they are not as expensive as I thought, but, still somewhat dated on the interior storage. If they change the ballast to where it is on the new boat for the 210, add the swivel seat, cooler and it may be a can't miss.

too bad CC changed the rear lockers to manual instad of automatic. those steel-in-the-vinyl handles look like knee-breakers. one of my favorite features is that i can close the rear lockers and they're locked automatically once the boat is turned off.

you're right on about the sales attutide rod. if my first nautique dealer experience had been my only one, i never would have bought the boat. those guys were clueless snobs.

I guess you have more patients than me, Wes. LOL..

Mine was at the boat show and I have been to Stockton before. I had pretty much a deal on the Malibu, but, I really wanted to talk to the Natique people because their reputation does preceed itself. I asked the guy what I could get for this much and he said last years boat on the lot in some weird color no body wanted. Maybe if I got the cost of ownership speech, some facts and maybe a slight willingness to talk about price; I maybe would have stuck around. I got the as matter of fact cold shoulder and I was out of there.

I may be in the market for a new boat in the next year. The wife was talking about getting a boat that we both picked out instead of one I had before we got married. Maybe I will talk to your guys before I make a decision. I usually take my time and start looking way ahead of time.

i can sincerely recommend talking to simon and central valley. my experience with hammers was poor, and i have no experience with larson's so i can't say. the malibu rep i was talking to back before i bought now works at central valley actually. they're good guys.

my next time around i'll definitely be polling the board for a decent supra and mc dealer to talk to, because my experiences were so poor last time.

Dealers that spend all their time bashing the competition are wasting their time when they talk to me. I looked at Ske Centurions when we bought our latest boat, I had a Sport Bowrider before.

But all the guy could tell me was, how this one has a wood stringer, oh the others don't have snap in carpet, they charge to much, you can get our V-Drive for the price of their D-Drive. Blah Blah Blah

I went to Tige' watersports in Corona, they gave me the lowdown on their boat. Very low key and let me take the information and make my decision. Did not mention the competition's boats at all. It's obvious they relize the competition makes great boats too, and it all comes down to the customer's personal taste and what they are specifically looking for in a boat.

For us it was quality boat, good wake stock and even better weighted, versatility, with room, 102 inch beam was key there and we did not want to spend $55k+ to get that. The 22I fit our needs and budget perfectly.

it's unbelievable how clueless some dealers are. i remember going to Hammers, and asking them a question about the 3-piece ballast system in the SAN, and the guy tried to convince me that "brand-X" was the only boat with that setup. I finally had to drag his ass over to his own showroom boat and open up the hatch to convince him. "whoa, you're right!"

the supra dealer was even worse. i knew his boat better than he did, and had never seen one in person. he couldn't answer a single question. i told him he should check out his own manufacturer's website because his boat had changed a lot for 02. unbelievable.

Back to the subject of this thread.

IMO, there is equal opportunity bashing.
MC innovates with good direction and good success.
CC innovates with crazy direction and poor success.
BU innovates hardly at all with some success.

CC simply provides for much more bashing!

I am jsut saying is CC took the BU interior layout which they almost did with the 211, added the ballast tanks where they are in the new 211, and then let warranty and reputation stand...They would probabely start making some serious holes in the market. There is only so much you can do with a boat. Reputation and layout is everything.

Rock_n_boardin: I ditto that Tige in Corona comment. I bought my boat there and I couldn't even bait the guy into talking smack about the competition.

I'm late to this thread, My sales experience with CC was a joke. Makes me think I'm in the wrong business. However, the 5 year promise and knowing I could deal directly with West Coast CC for all warranty repairs is what sold me on the boat. The guys at West Coast are great to deal with. Boats are always stored inside and the shop is spotless, unlike other boat repair places I've been to.
There are some design things I don't like, but no one can deny the CC is a well built boat.
If Mc and BU are so great, lets see them backed by a 5 year warranty!

Tom,

Does the dealer have to call the factory to get permission to take care of every little thing or can the guys at West Coast CC make the decision and do the work.

MC has been bashed constantly for advertising the new X-Star and then not releasing it forever. Since then, many have thought all the hype was just that - hype.

Malibu probably has the longest running post ever bashing the wedge and it's ability to pull the transom off the boat.

Tige's use of wood in their hulls (until recently) has been strongly debated, and I think people just got tired of the same argument.

There have been a number of Centurion posts about bad quality and customer service.

Supra/Moomba used to be criticized more often, but then a factory representative started responding on the discussion board alleviated a lot of peoples concerns.

CC has been discussed recently because of their new design partly, but also because Dane has made it a sport to irritate SAN owners. Many get extremely angry which seems to fuel him while others just urge him on because it is funny to watch others get so angry as if he attacked them personally.

I myself am usually a lurker on this site and I find it hilarious to watch people bicker about whose boat is better. I myself own a MC and am very happy with my choice. I have 2 friends I regularly ride with that own SAN, and I am just as happy that they have a different boat. I have also also ridden Supras, Centurions, and Malibus. I am glad that others have a different boat than myself. It is fun to try something new.

Rod, as far as I know West coast CC is a factory distribution point so dealing with them is like dealing directly with the factory. I've had the boat in a few times and everything was done in a reasonable amount of time. No hassle about getting permission to fix anything.
When I picked the boat up not even much paperwork, just a hand shake.

My boat before this one was a MC. I drove down to plesanton to buy it because the Mc/Bu dealer in my area has a bad rap. The guys at Ski World were also great to deal with. The service shop there was excellent. If I lived in the bay area I would own another MC, No Doubt.

Back to the topic of this thread, I think people trash CC boats a lot on this site, and I'm not sure why. On another thread people are trashing the new 211 CC, and I doubt any of them have even seen it. I saw the boat yesterday and was fairly impressed. Not the boat for me, but I think it will have it's market. Looks like a great duel purpose boat, with more storage and space than a direct drive.
BTW, I have not been back the the dealer since I took delivery on the boat. When I buy another one I will drive down to central valley marine.
(Message edited by tlb on December 17, 2003)

(Message edited by tlb on December 17, 2003)

CVM do smokin deals on Sangers too.

I like reading these. I was shopping for a boat for over a year. I tested, talked, drove and read up on all the above mentioned boats. I ended up with a MB SPORTS B-52v3 Team Lots of options available, great people to deal with and an great warrranty. Attention to detail and overall fit and finish and wake is superb.

Jess, I really enjoyed your post. Really. You so nailed it. Only, I must admit that some of what I post I actually believe.

Nice profile pic too!

I have had both MC and now a CC I can honestly say I think most issues seem to be at the DEALER level. Some people are really turned off by their local dealer so they go to another boat manufacturer or another dealer.

My experience with the MC dealer was nothing short of AWESOME, California Skier sold me a boat for what I considered a fair price and they took great care of me and the boat. I had a few things go wrong with it in the 2 years that I owned it and they were more than willing to fix it and in a very short time, often I would drive it in and they would have me on the road within a few hours NO QUESTIONS asked.

My CC dealer M2O Marine has also been nothing short of AWESOME, my service is done the SAME day, any warranty issues are fixed NO QUESTIONS asked. My boat has every single option CC offers and I have been more than happy with the performance of the boat.

Neither dealer tried to SELL me a boat, they both simply pointed out what they thought were great selling points on their boat. They wouldn't say anything negative about the competitor only stating "it is totally your preference" and even if you buy a boat from another manufacturer feel free to bring your boat in for service here if they are too busy.

Everyone has their own opinion on what makes a great boat to THEM and that is how it should be.

For me the CC options and how we use the boat are great, we don't spend 4 to 6 hours in the boat. The fit, finish and functionality of the boat are great for ME and that is all that matters.

I wanted a boat with a great wake with what I consider very little ADDED weight, fast filling ballast and with enough storage for how WE use the boat.

The only complaint anyone has ever given me is that they thought the wake was too big and too steep, I personally think it just takes some getting used to.

Wes I agree the observers seat makes a great sub box, I have a plastic milk crate under my seat and it fits in there perfect. I have all kinds of junk in there and it opens and closes just fine.







(Message edited by akman on December 17, 2003)

Correct Craft is the only company that really gets bashed for their ideas. Hummmm.....

I would say CC gets bashed for their lack of new ideas.

At least other boat manufactures try to push the envelope a bit. Look at MC. The X-2 was running strong (still) and they took a huge leap and landed on their feet with the New X-Star... And sure they took some $%!^ but they at least they had the balls to put there neck and reputation on the line.
CC - 5 yrs + and all they do is update the 210 molds..

I believe to get anywhere in life one has to take chances.. CC has not proven to me that they are willing to do so..

Don't get me wrong, I still like em, what one too!! Like my X-Star better though..
Ahh whatever..

It is hard to improve on what is already a great product. Not telling how many deisgn ideas CC has that ended up not being any better than what they already offered. Seems like it is difficult to improve on the wakes produced by the hulls on the old 205V, the VLX hull and the Sport Natique hull that has been around for ever.

Where is Central Valley Marine? They sound like a good dealership. I like the people over at Ski World as well. I will have some time to decide where I want to shop if we decide to get a different boat in the near future. The first thing is to see something different that would make me want to change.

Rod, did you buy your 'bu at Ultimate or that place in Escalon?

I got it at the boat show through Cope's at Bell Aqua. The guys in Escalon are pretty down to earth from the different times I talked with them in the past. I almost bought my first boat there, but, decided on a used MB Sports for the money at the time. That was a mistake. Not saying that Cope's is not a good dealer, I really have not got to deal with them much. I basically delt with Malibu Directly on the V-drive issue and Kevin's Prop shop did a great job for me and went out of his way to get me on the road for my trip (Kevin's Prop shop is not a Malibu Authorized service shop, It just was a long battle that luckly I was proved right and it turned out well). Malibu seems to like to make all warranty descions and that really ties the hands of the dealers. I have not pursued issues through Copes to see if they will take care of me like I should have. It is just too far away. I have heard good things about the guys in Escalon and decided to give them a shot. So far so good.

i just drive these old cc's. bash away at cc, but a boat that is 45 years old, one that is 35 and another that is 32 and EVERYTHING still works says something for cc.

tige is the only boat that i have ever looked at that can compare to perfect mold work. everything else has waves like a 'vette.

i live in the midst of mastercraft, supra/moonba and even aztec country. lots of stars -n- stripes, old malibu's and supras on the local lakes. where do all the other boats go when they die, when sn's and stars and stripes just keep on going and going.

Hey GRAMPS didn't you read the sticker that you took of the back of your boat, it says not to drive with someone on the swim platform. Shame on you

I'm kidding.....

And again, nice boat!

Tom, this is really belated, but does the 10 year warranty on Hyundai's mean they are the best cars?

Not saying that it detracts anything from the Nautiques (was THIS close to buy a SAN over our current X2, and would certainly consider one again next time), I just find the warranty reasoning flawed. Just because the company purchases an insurance policy for your boat (for which they ultimately charge you), does that make it a better boat?

Not saying that the insurance isn't a great thing to have, but I fail to see what it has to do with the quality of the boat. (But props to CC for marketing it so successfully).

"One Love" Brothers and Sisters,
Hey when some one here buy's one of these New 211's or 210's Invite Rod and Dane out for a day on the delta, Bring some of the Monster Tower model's and Ill bring the Booze and Music, Wooo Hoo! They will be sporting a Natique in No time.

That is a ride I would like to be a part of.

I would definitely be up for a ride like that...

I like the idea of when I go to different lakes I will never see another boat like mine. It is one of a kind. I bought my SAN03 because living in Calif. you don't see that many since they are made in Florida. Calif. makes just about every other boat out there. Just something to remember, 50% of the people will like something, 50% of the others won't. Look around at the cars we drive. Different styles,colors,cost, etc.
Peace.

Exclusivity has it merits, but I am in X-Star land. The only way to stand out is rigging or having a boat load of Monster chicks.

Tim thats a good point, But it depends on where you go, I go to Lake Tulloch here in California and I see Lots of SAN's It seems like theres more Nautiques than othere boats, Mabey its just that I notice them more

central valley marine is in San Jose/ Campbell area and a great boat shop in san jose is topside marine specializing in tournament style inboard boats only.

Tim, come to my lake youll see one. I do really like that color though, looks great in the water.

I personally don't see CC being bashed much more than any of the others. All boats have their down sides and up sides. If anybody claims their boat is 100% trouble free they are either dillusional or just in denial. I know mine has been to the dealer three times in the last year and a half. Some of it was minor adjustments, some were poor design corrections, and some were build errors from the mfg (OMG did he just say a CC had an error from the factory, I guess he won't fit in the CC crowd).

I just think everybody must get the boat THEY like, and not listen to the mud slinging some seem to enjoy.

BTW, I also hate those new knee busters on the '04s, but I am also not so dillusional to think that my rear lockers are locked when the ignition is off. I also know that they did the knee busters because of the inability of the lokers to actually open with just a press of the button. They work fine when the vinyl is wet, and not sticking to the adjacent cover, and there is no amount of adjustment that will make them work right all of the time.

On the point of inovation, while I don't think CC is at the leading edge on flash, I do think they put the inovation where it counts, on the wetted surface of the hull. I did not want a flashy boat, but I wanted a nice conservative looking quality boat. That is why I think they do so well, they don't just jump at the latest fads, but make a more timeless boat. Of all the other tourney boats, I personally think BU is the closest to CC. I just see MC as too much flash, but I know the quality is there.