Jr.Women should get the same props as Jr. Men!!!

Jr.Men get all the perks!! They are just Jr.Pro's. So are Jr.Women, they deserve the same things, advertisement, cash at comps, etc... You want to progress the sport? Add Jr.Women to Rip it Jr.X, and bring Pro Women on all Tour stops, Wakeboarding would explode!!!...

The Jr. women do not have the numbers that the Jr. Men do. Alot of these Jr. men could easily compete with the pros. Most of the Jr. women still have a long way to go. But if a girl gets real good there is always plenty of room in the pro ranks for them to step in to.

Want #'s ? add some perks, they will come...

They have had a hard time getting 20 quality pro women to get out there let alone filling in the amateur ranks. The $$ don't come first. When you go to the nationals there is only a handful of females and not even enough to fill all the divisions. There is only so much sponsorship $$ and most of the pro men struggle to get support. The money should go to pro females first, only a couple of them make any money.

If you compete on a National, and World level, you should get support from sponsers, plain and simple! One reason the sport is dwindling...

Headhunter, I am a supporter of women wakeboarding and stoked to see the girls steppen up. That said, how much money do you think is out there??? I know lots of Pro men riders that get little or no support. Over 75 pro men signed up for Nationals, 35 Jr. men, & 10 Jr woman. And you suggest they get the same support.

$1000 for Jr. mens winner...$0 for Jr.Womens winner...

$0 for Jr. men's 2nd & 3rd.

Randy- no money for 2nd and 3rd. It use to be 500, 300, 200. I like that better (unless you are AJ).

Headhunter- unfortunately there are a lot of things going against that. One is industry sponsorship has limited dollars. This is a small industry and their budgets are not very big. Out of industry such as clothes, sun glasses and consumer products has diminished. There is not much ROI justification to put out money for Jr Women. Like Rogeer said, pro women are struggling to make a living so the dollars need to go there before amateurs IMO.

I have always viewed it as a great privilege to have my kids compete on the national or world level. It has come with much family sacrifice and only recently has one of them had much sponsor support. But the experiences have well been worth it. I don't view competitive wakeboarding as a financial opportunity but as a real unique life experience for my kids and the parents.

My personal experience is that if you focus on the sponsorship aspect it will ruin your experience. You will never figure out why some get the deals they do and others don't. I know this is an expensive sport but it really isn't much different than most sports for kids that compete at a high level. It requires much family investment in time and resources.

Definitely a journey. Hard work is hard work, gains should come with that. The life experience just comes with life no matter what you choose to do. Sponsership only heightens the experience for these kids. It's a whole package. They lay their lives on the line, more so than most sports. This is a big ticket item sport, there is indeed $. If asked most of these kids will say "Wakeboarding is my job". Every Sponser should cover some expenses, and offer incentives, that is bottom line.

I agree with that but,for whatever reason it may be this sport has never produced much money for riders. The medical bills will always outway the pay. But I don't think that when our children first started wakeboarding that they ever thought that they would get rich over this. Knowing what I know now I would have prepared my kids more for college rather then wakeboarding. Yet the sport continues on. It is an addicting sport that many of us parents are all to willing to spend everything we have on it. In some cases people even lose their marriages over it. The kids just want to have fun. They don't want to know about all the money issues. They just want to ride.

Some have figured the $, but you're right for the most part, they just want to ride!!

I always thought there was more money in the sport. The equipment is more expensive than the majority of the sports out there. Somebody is making a bundle. I am not sure why much of this does not get passed along to the riders at every level. Are the bigger manufacturers content with keeping just the business they have instead of growing the sport? What are the other reasons it is falling off?

Dont get me wrong I would sure like to see a little more help for these kids that have dedicated their lives to this sport. They are the future and should be able to get some kind of help before they just can't afford it anymore. Look at the Jr. mens division. It was'nt that long ago when 70 plus riders would show up to Nationals just for that Div. Most parents I've talked to just can't afford to send their kids to these comps anymore.

It is not falling off. The sport is growing. It is, however, not growing like it was. It is a "mature" sport now. It is no longer the latest fad where companies try to be on the bleedng edge. What is required now is the sport's organization (USA Waterski) to step up and make it work. They are really strugging to figure this out in waterskiing and all other towed watersport disciplines as well. Hopefully they will. I tend to doubt it.

One of the reasons women don't get what they deserve: afraid to ask. Where are you at girls, stand up for yourselves!!!

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quote:

they deserve the same things, advertisement, cash at comps, etc...

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I hate to turn this into a "equal rights" thing, but since you brought it up, I think I have to give my thoughts on that. I wholeheartedly agree in the "equal pay for equal work" concept, but unfortunately this is not a case where it works. For example, by your rationale the WNBA players should be getting roughly the same pay and endorsement opportunities as the NBA players. But they dont!! Why not?! Is it sexism on a national corporate level? No, it's because no one watches the WNBA. Spectator support ($$$) is what drives these sports and the pay is a result of the NUMBERS, not some conspiracy to keep women down. Additionally, for those Jr (or Pro for that matter) women who do truly believe in "equal pay for equal work" I have a hard time believeing the officials would disallow women from competing with the men for the men's money.

Don't get me wrong, I love to see the JR comps out there (mens and womens). I wish wakeboarding had more money to go around in general. But it's just simply not there.

-Steve

Your missing the point! $ for one group, should mean $ for another, even if being female gets less, so be it. At least put up something. Wake Games, everyone benefited $, AM's as well.So competing on the world stage means nothing? There are few who do, and they should be compensated. They are who drive the sport. Fact: There is plenty of money.

Steve, how do we know there is'nt enough money to go around. What happened to all the money that us parents have been spending all these years. And why do boats cost twice as much as they did 5 years ago. Theres kids out there busting their butts to get to the next level. And most will quit before they ever reach their potential all because of there not being enough money. If this sport wants to grow to its full potential then some of these businesses are going to have to step up a little more for its future. And we all know the future of this sport is the kids.

Bam!!! Right on the head!!

keep in mind this is a relatively new sport.
I believe in womens tennis, they are finally getting closer to what the men make in some tournaments. and that sport has been around over a hundred years.
I completely understand what everyone is trying to say, but I dont see it happening. at least not in the near future.

I think we have a winner....^^^....well put Steve...and so true.

Fact: There is plenty of money

Where did you get this fact from?

The winners should be the athletes!! Would Ryan Scheckler be known if it weren't for Comps? No! If you have the guts to get behind a boat for 40 seconds, and throw down, you are entitled to more than "way to go, you rip! " These kids that do the Comps are the ones driving this sport.

The children are the performers, the parents are the spenders and the big corporations appreciate us spending all our money.

The athletes are not sponsored/paid by the companies to "drive the sport". They are paid to help sell boats/boards/sunglasses/etc... PLAIN AND SIMPLE. I wish you would stop deluding yourself into believing it is some sort of charitable organization created to produce better wakeboarders.

-Steve

What the heck do you mean by that. Basically the kids that stay in the sport long enough are hoping that a compamy will pick them up and help them get to the next level. Everybody starts out learning to wakeboard for fun. But after committing themselves to the training it takes to get there you would think that it would be smart from a business aspect to help these kids out that have clearly proven their committment. As a wakeboard parent it is now easy for me to see how important it is for these kids to get help if they are serious about going pro. Steve, when you support a child through ten years of wakeboarding then what you have to say will mean more to me.

Yes, Sales are what drive the sport, and it's the athletes that drive the sales. Nobody is looking for charity, pay your dues, and get paid. That's the real world. Steve, walk a mile in the athletes shoes, then comment!

A.R. definitely needs to be taken seriously from a "parent with experience" aspect....congrats to AJ for killing it this year!....but I also think it is very easy to get emotional about this subject in your position, having known parents of a Jr. Mens rider and seen their level of commitment. I agree with a lot of what is being said on both sides of this subject, but from a strictly business perspective, you have to realize that wakeboarding is still not a great revenue generator for the sanctioning body....certainly not like other "pro" sports....which is entirely due to lack of spectator $. No kidding...I was at a local grassroots event here in OKC two weeks ago, and I truly believe there were more people in attendance on Saturday than there were at the Ft. Worth PWT just weeks prior. And I say that only to further the point that it may not be as smart an "investment" as it would seem on the surface. There just doesn't seem to be enough money.

Having said that...boat prices are getting absolutely freakin' ridiculous! This may be off topic (but it is related)....does anyone know what it truly costs to manufacture a wake boat? Maybe I would change my tune if the production costs were in the $10K-$15K range, while they charge us $60K-$70K per unit. Somehow I doubt that is the case.

One more thing....you don't have to "walk a mile" or "support a child through ten years" to have a conversation about the business end of any subject. I would guess that most of the "investors" you are hoping to recruit to the sport in order to pay our pro athletes have never even strapped on a wakeboard....much less tried to make a living at it. sorry...but this world is big business...and although this is an expensive sport on an individual basis, it pales to the point of transparency in comparison to the money spent as a whole on other sports.

First off I think if you ask the 8 or so Jr. Women that competed at Nationals I am sure they would have LOVED to be riding for even $100 in prize money. It doesn't take much but i'm sure you could find some (little) money for them. Also if we are talking about it why not let the jr women hit sliders as the jr men do?
Also the women have really stepped it up in the last year or so. In the girls (13 & under)division my daughter threw 1 invert at 8yrs old and finished 4th. Rami Merrit won the div and threw I think 5 or so. To finish on the podium you had to have 2 or more inverts in the girls div. A year ago 2 inverts won the division. Now im sure this is not boring to watch when young girls are starting to throw down this number of tricks. Also the girls most of the time get stuck riding when the crowds have not arrived yet or have already gone. It is hard to bring the attention they need to them when they do not even have an ideal riding time.

Back to the main point: Jr.Women should get paid too. Jr.Men winners get a check every comp. Jr.Women, do not...

Yeah I think everyone is missing the point here. It would be nice if the jr women could compete for something even if it is only $100. I don't think HH99 is saying they need $5k just something small. We are talking about 2 events WWA Nationals & WWA Worlds are the only two stops. Now you cant tell me u couldnt find 1 womens specific sponsor to kick in $200 dollars or so? Or does WWA stipulate how much you have to contribute to be a sponsor because if that is the case then we have a completely different thread. Look at Board Up Miami- Mona Vie (sp) kicked in $3k for the women in just one event. so you can not tell me that you can not find 1 sponsor to donate a few hundred bucks?
Scott

So you're going to help this kid out because they dedicated 10 years to wakeboarding? They can ride well, but, don't increase sales, gain attention, but by gosh they've dedicated themselves so we better help them out. 1st, you're losing money because you just picked up a customer. 2nd, this type of person would jump ship at the next best offer in no time. Businesses need to think logically.

Whats up with all this? I get that it's unfair to girls, but the thought that people SHOULD be picked up is ridiculous!!!! People that ride to be sponsored are riding for the wrong reasons, and do not deserve anything. Dedication to the sport is one thing, expectation from the sport is lame

This discussion is going nowhere.

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quote:

Steve, when you support a child through ten years of wakeboarding then what you have to say will mean more to me.

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quote:

Steve, walk a mile in the athletes shoes, then comment!

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Are you kidding me? Because I haven't raised a kid in wakeboarding or been a pro athlete myself, you two are saying my argument is not valid? That's absolutely rediculous! Open your eyes guys.

I never said this is the way things should be as far as prize money/sponsorships are concerned. And I sure don't think that the sport is better off for it. I simply said that this is the way it is, and explained why. I understand that it upsets you to think that these companies don't feel it's necessary to support the JR comps as much as you would like them to, but thats the way it is.

-Steve

P.S. I'm finished with this thread, it's seriously bumming me out. I'm going riding tomorrow, not for prize money, sponsorships or recognition, for FUN. I'll see you guys on the water!

Okay...I contributed to getting the topic off subject a little...sorry about that. But it still boils down to risk vs. reward. How much does a company REALLY stand to gain by "investing" in a non-revenue generating sport? Sorry...but that's it.

And Scott...I believe the Monavie sponsorship may have had something to do with the fact that Rami Merrit's parents are big time distibutors making bank off that berry.

I think it will come soon that the Jr. Womens will be able to win some money, just not there yet, but in the next couple years if the sport keeps growing like it is and the ladies keep stepping in up like they are, then I think we will see more money for all the athlete's.

Steve, why don't you put forth an effort to make things right instead of " that's just the way it is" You walking away from it, is one of the reasons it is the way it is. Maybe there will be folks on this thread that can make a difference, or voices that will be heard thru the industry.

I think most sports started off with very little money and were built up do to individuals who dedicated their lives to the sport they loved. Someday wakeboarding will be much bigger and much more profitable to all involved. I for one have never been a parent hunting for finacial support. I have seen parents close to me do this and I quickly distanced myself from them. I have worked extremely hard to be able to have my family wakeboard and I have never taken anything for granted. But when this topic came up I could'nt help but get involved today. It's just really hard telling your kid you don't have any more money to help them. It kills me.

Agreed Anthony! When your kid watches someone get $ for standing on top of podium, and then asks why they didn't get some too, it hurts to tell them, there isn't any for you. You can almost hear them say, then what's the point. Most kids that ride in these big comps. have made the choice to do it for a living for right now. They could go work at McD's. But they chose to ride, they need to be compensated. We all do whatever it takes to get our kids the practice, and all, to get them to the levels of competing that most won't venture into. Therefore...

Headhunter, get real, no one in Jr. men's is making a living off wakeboarding & only a hand full of Pro men do. The kids do it because they love it and have parent support. I know all those kids and most of the parents, all make sacfices for the kids to chase the dream. No one will get rich of this sport anytime soon, get over it.

so randy since your kid does it because he totally loves it, then I'm sure you will be willing to donate any of his winnings or compensations to the jr women for prize money. way to step up randy & make a difference for the love & growth of the sport!!!

Nobody said anything about making a living off it, or getting rich. Just give the props where they are due! Incentives make for better athletes, and hence growth of sport..

Randy needs no validation, but I'm sure you got the point Jim...no need to join this thread only to stir up shizz. If you got your kid (especially your daughter) into wakeboarding to make a living or support your retirement....sorry....but you just screwed up. The only thing worse is the outlook on my Social Security benefits! Which a completely new thread....

Anyway....it was a good debate....but I feel it has come time to drop the gavel. Later...

I'm gonna say one last thing and then I'm done with this thread. I think pros should be paid. I think amatuers should not be paid. It's just a little inconsistant to offer money as a prize to one amatuer division and not another. So I can see where headhunter is coming from. But that does'nt change my opinion on sponsorship support. If something does'nt change it is possible we will continue to lose future greats to construction jobs etc.

Hopefully enough ears were burning during this discussion to warrant some changes...Over and Out!

the real ? is does anyone know truely what it would take to get the jr women prize money for the 2 stops they do? and I am not talkn large amounts( a few hundred or so) can a sponsor donate say $600 ($300) per stop or do they have to spend thousands to be a title sponsor?

? number 2- if jr women could hit sliders as jr men do you guys think it would raise the level of riding for the overall women divs?

eric -i am sure u r right about rami's parents sponsorn the event but that does kind of make a valid argument that there IS $ to go around I just want 2 know as I stated how the process works.

Just a few friendly questions for everyone -

1)I think you have to ask yourself what is the financial reason behind sponsors paying anyone, male or female?

2)When they do pay prize money are they getting a ROI on that prize money? (increased board or gear sales)

3)What is the % of female riders compared to male riders?

These are all serious questions and I'm not trying to stir anything up but not having a kid of either sex participating I can only think from the business perspective.

financial reasons would be answer to Q 1-2, Q-3 shouldn't matter.

Jim T, since my son rides in Jr. mens (amatuer) by definition, "a person who does something for pleasure rather then pay" and has not made a dime from the tour so he has nothing to donate to your cause, sorry.

Unfortunately you can't tell a business it doesn't matter if they make money or not. If they don't stand to profit they won't invest. Businesses don't pay or donate money out of the kindness of their hearts even though in a situation like this I'm sure it would be nice for the women to get something. If you want to change the way things are you will have to figure out how to get the womens wakeboarding scene to generate revenue.

I am not being hostile or smart but I think that women's wakebrdn is definately starting to generate revenue. just look @ Liquid Forces all female specific (Maven) line of boards, clothing, and now clinics. LF would not put the $s they are if they were not getting a return. there are more women buyn boards now than before so it is changing.
If the women want the money they have to continue 2 keep stepn up and keep pushing the level of riding which I feel they are making huge strides

call me slow, but are there junior X riders posting on this thread? or are there names just similar...

I can't believe this thread. Are you serious? Jr Women getting paid. How many Jr wmoen riders are there? I hardly see them anywhere. You want to pay them. These have to be dad's of girl riders. They are lucky to have a division. They will not get paid. Get over it.

Unbelievable...

Trevor- There are Junior Mens and Womens Parents and supporters posting on this thread.
Jim-T- Why don't you donate next months boat gas to the cause since it seems to be such a concern. Or if it burns your balls that bad that some Junior Men can possibly get paid why don't you just make it an open Junior Riders class and then see if some of the women get paid!!! It wont happen. Change will only come with time otherwise you'll just be beating a dead horse for the next 10 years till it does.

RIDE FOR FUN!!!! IF YOU CANT AFFORD IT DONT RIDE!!!! OR WORK HARDER TO MAKE IT SO YOU CAN
YOU CAN ONLY RELY ON YOU NOBODY ELSE.

(Message edited by tyboarder03 on June 27, 2007)

while I am sitting here in the airport delayed 2 take my daughter 2 a comp I keep getting furious with comments like the ones Natalie is making. the reason is because most people do not understand the financial commitment from parents/family that it takes to participate in this sport. I am sure the amount of dollars that scagliotti's spend for their son and the time it takes for him to compete is way greater than most on this thread can even imagine. I know they spend thousands and probably more realistically tens of thousands so their son can follow what he enjoys. from being a parent it has nothing to do with tryn 2 "cash in" on their kids success. everyone wants & tried 2 provide their kid with the best opportunities they can. again it really angers my with these assanine remarks about "dads" tryn 2 get rich off their kids. as the sayn goes one bad apple... you get one pro athlete's father that pushes their kid to success and profits from it, now every father that provides for their son/daughter is now dropped into this category. now most fathers that have men or women already know that the money for this sport is a far cry from others. so it really angers me when fathers get lumped into this category.

now from the athletes side of things when u compete at this level u probably by now have piled up enough medals & trophies to hold your own grass roots series of events. when u have the chance 2 earn a small amount of money it makes all the hard work these kids put into their sport really rewarding to them. my daughter attended an event last year in KY where they paid every division cash $100 1st $50 2nd $25 3rd. the smiles one these kids faces were from ear to ear. as much time (training travel sacrifices in missed school/functions)as these kids put into their sport to compete it would not hurt if these divisions jr men & women had the opportunity to compete for a little something more than a medal or trophie.

What other sport pays little girls to compete? Soccer? Skating? Gymnastics? Tennis? Golf? My family was big into golf and tennis and it cost tons of money to train and compete and travel They never even thought about "prize money". I just think this is silly. I love that the girls are starting to step it up and compete. I am glad there is a womens pro wakeskate division and the Hoffman girls are killing it. But to pay amateur girls prize money is funny.

I got an idea. Since you are paying all this money anyway why not get the girls dads to put up $20 each and give it to the winner. There- problem solved.

Taylor-Without a doubt

(Message edited by tyboarder03 on June 27, 2007)

Natalie- just to clarify my daughter rides in jr. GIRLS (9 & UNDER) or in girls. so honestly if the Jr. Women get paid anything won't affect Taylor for 6 six more years. So this thread is truely just my $.02

Natalie- because you probably cant imagine how much the industry has made off of these parents already anyhow.

Natalia- that is the stupidest comment on here. u must b kidding.

1. we are not talkn little girls. we are talking jr women which is age 14-18.

2. name another sport??? how about some of them u named. figure skating, gymnastics, soccer. correct me if I'm wrong but aren't most of the figure skaters & gymnasts that participate in the olympics around that 14 -18 year age bracket. what kind of endorsments do they have? how old was Mia hamm when she started making her money?
and in our own sport Dallas. how old was she when she started making money 5 or so years ago?? 14?

I just really can not believe some of these comments. I am not preachn equal rights but I truely feel that there would be no harm in finding a very small amount of money to help both sides which leads me back to the ? earlier what is the process?

Ok I can't help but comment. It seems to me you are flaming Natalie because you have some sense of entitlement about working so hard to make sure a kid is rewarded for their efforts. I really got that from headhunter several posts back. Nobody owes anybody anything. That is just the way it is. The way the world works.

I actually think it would be nice to give em a few bucks or at least some really nice sponsor prizes they can go sell (like a new setup). The sponsor companies can afford it and it adds to the fun. But to say they should because you as parents are working so hard to ensure their success..... that is your choice as a parent to make the sacrifice. Nobody owes you anything.

Nobody said the parents are owed anything. What was said is that these men and women who pay their dues to get where they are deserve a little more than they currently get due to all the sacrifice they have made(family/friends directly made). The riders deserve more and don't get squat the parents are simply relaying the message since many of these posters aren't understanding this concept.

So you people have spent alot of money and wasted all your time because your kid doesn't earn any money? Why did your child start wakeboarding? Did they say, "this looks cool" or "I want to make money". If it is about the money then you made a "bad investment". I believe your child will say otherwise.

tyler- that is exactly correct.

gene- I'm not sure where I ever said I was owed anything. I feel that anything my daughter ever gets if anything from this sport, job, or anything else is hers and not mine! Ever! I don't understand y others are reading way more into this. I think I understand HH99 but he may not have said it correctly. I think tyler is one of the few that understand this thread. if ur kids wants 2 get rich go 2 school 2 be a dr or lawyer.
again this thread is talking about putting up a minimal amount of prize money not a new car

Nash- They are now to the level where they DESERVE more than they currently get and unless things change soon there wont be many juniors who can continue to pay their own way till they become pro and can get paid. Not everyone is made of money

tyler another good point. if u have a kid that competes at a high level in wakeboarding it is very costly 2 participate. let's take someone from florida is gonna compete this past weekend @ wwa nationals in wisconsin. this trip is gonna cost over a grand.
entry fee $150
host hotel $139 per night plus tax basically 3 nights
meals per day ???
air fare aprox $200 per person
rental car $100 or so
now is this 14 yr old kid going alone? so now more food and airfare for a parent or add more if both. and all this for a 2 min ride down & back to hope u make it through. this couple hundred dollars prize money doesn't even make a dent in the expense it costs. now do that same scenario 7 or 8 times a year.

now with that being said I don't expect gene nash or natalie 2 say " oh now I get it" because ur next post will be they do it for the love of the sport which I agree & every parent on here will continue 2 keep spendn $ and taking their kid 2 the events because their kid loves it but it would still make their kids VERY happy 2 try to compete 4 prizes or money.

Taylor- Were on the same page!

Haters- Unless things change there wont be as many up and coming shredders. They'll be picked off by lack of funding to continue... I think it'd be a good idea for sponsors to understand how much talent they could possibly just be pushing aside due to their lack of actual sponsoring. If a sponsor wants their rider in Wisconsin they should be floating the entire bill! What else are they sponsoring a 60 dollar pair of shades!!!!

I can't believe this thread is still alive. Here's the thing; alot of Jr.Women are getting paid. Hyperlite offers podium payback, others offer the same. Some have point systems, where points translate into $, the kids can then get product at a discount, and do whatever they chose with it. The point of this thread was to make some noise, not to benefit moms and dads bank accounts, but to get props for the same things others are doing, Competing at a high level. Many of these Jr. riders go and compete in Outlaw divisions for cash. There are I'm sure thousands of kids out there that can rip just as hard as the ones on the big stage, but they are not on the big stage, so the ones who are should get some props. Big difference between Freeriding, and a 40 second run for a National Title More advertisement boosts sales, a little payout for tournaments, brings more riders to the show. As parents we could care less what the expense is, our kids are having a blast, and living it up, and we enjoy watching them do it!!

you're all going to hate me...but who would pay to see young girls wakeboard??? no body would. that is why no prize money. i'm sure they are all way better than me, but i still would never pay to see them compete.

am·a·teur [am-uh-choor, -cher, -ter, am-uh-tur]

–noun 1. a person who engages in a study, sport, or other activity for pleasure rather than for financial benefit or professional reasons.



pro·fes·sion·al

–adjective 1. following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain

Amatuer:
Sports, An athlete who accepts money under restrictions specified by a regulatory body, for participating in a competition.

whiner:
- someone who thinks jr. womens wakeboarders deserve prize money

my final post is this: a person may win $600 prize money in a single year and still retain their amatuer status. If that person wins over $600 in a single year their is a form with the WWA that that childs guardian may fill out to designate the prize money be directed towards coaching/ travel expense and the child will retain their am status even after winning $600 in prize (not sponsor) money.

steve- by this your copy & paste post is incorrect. not stirring just pointing out that this does exist

"steve- by this your copy & paste post is incorrect."

Umm, actually I posted from the dictionary. So I guess the dictionary is wrong. I really don't care, just wanted to put some non-emotional thought into the discussion. I have competed and been a part of many "amateur" atheletic and entertainment competions/organizations. For me it was never about winning money, I guess I am just different in that respect.

It just seems that no matter how much money was being given there would always be a reason to complain. Well Jr. Men's is getting $1000 we are only getting $100, that's not fair. How about not paying Jr. Men's and leaving it strictly amateur.

Bottom line, I just view wakeboarding completely differently. I am tired of the push to land the next whatever so we can say this person is "pushing" the sport. The sport lies in the 1,000 of wakeboarders who wake up early on a Saturday to drive 2 hours to their favorite riding spot paying $3-4/gallon, launch fees, boat payments, boat insurance and maintenance costs just to get some butter. We are the individuals who are giving your sons, daugthers, whoever, the ability to have a competition such as this run by an organization that we support through our hard earned money. There are tons of us out there who are spending nearly as much money as these parents for the love of the sport: Boats, Tow-Vehicles, Camps, Trips, etc.

Wow, sorry about the rant, not even really sure where I was going with this, just letting it out before starting the day.

You are all pathetic! Nick, I burst out loud in laughter That was good.. Welcome to the real world parents! That was a great cost analysis of someone going to Nationals, now think soccer, basketball, cheerleading, etc. Even MORE money to travel participating in those sports. You have a kid, you provide for that kid, and unfortunately in todays society some are able to afford to participate in more expensive pasttimes. Wakeboarding doesn't owe the parents anything, and YES, you are coming accross that the parents are owed something. Why should money push someone to ride harder? Why does your child compete in the first place? So they might get sponsored? Make money? Or for the feeling they get when they leave the dock? It is sad that it is so expensive to wakeboard competitively. But it has been this way since the beginning. Pay your dues, and if you feel you've paid enough, pay more or quit. Every Jr. Mens rider (and Parent) should be pissed and scared, because a more realistic and "equal" answer would be to take their prize money away. Also, I think Jr Men getting that small prize is more an incentive to keep those that could compete in Pro stay in Jr's for a little longer, where they will actually place, and thus receive more outside financial help.

natalie, thanks for posting your thoughts. They were NOT the dumbest thing ever, and it is sad that a mother would actually post something like that on a public forum, especially under her daughters profile. Scary stuff parents these days

I apologize to pissing anyone off. I do that sometimes by saying what I think. I have no dog in this fight. I know a few of the pros and how they struggle. To even consider paying jr women at this point just doesn't seem right to me until the pro men can at least make a little. Some of these guys are top 20 in standings and it cost them money to go to comps.

If the parents of jr women went to some sponsors (maybe someone who is not associated with industry) and asked for $500 for a tournament then that may be a way without seeming like your taking $$ from the pros. Split it among the top 3 to 5.

Parents who post on this page. You may want to be aware of the fact that some things said on this could haunt your kids in their career. There was a post a mom did under her daughter's name (level 10 gymnast) and she is goaded about that to this day.

As far as the sports you mentioned where the young women are sponsored. These are not in the junior league but at the top of their sport. Female riders at that age who ride in the pro division is a different story. Most of the ladies on tour started riding pro at the mid teens,}

Natalie- what you just said is what lftaylor has been saying or asking. How does a NEW sponsor contribute directly to the jr women or jr men division or is there even a way without taking away from the Pro Men or Pro Women? Does the WWA allow this without being a title sponsor and paying for the adv. that say a title sponsor like Mastercraft or Rip It does.

I think there is only one parent posting to this thread that even has a dog in this race and its not LFTaylor. I think that was mentioned above.

By Taylor M (lftaylor) on Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 8:10 pm:

Natalie- just to clarify my daughter rides in jr. GIRLS (9 & UNDER) or in girls. so honestly if the Jr. Women get paid anything won't affect Taylor for 6 six more years. So this thread is truely just my $.02

Gotta be fair - this was the ENTIRE definition of amateur unedited
Amateur - Sports An athlete who has never accepted money, or who accepts money under restrictions specified by a regulatory body, for participating in a competition.

My kid has played pop warner for 4 years and little league for 5 years and after the cost of the fee to play, the donations, the car washes, buying his jersey, helmet and the rest of his gear, going to Vegas or wherever else they choose to have their championship game then when its all over he gets a 5dollar trophy and the kids get a pizza party which the parents pay for. My kid has never questioned any financial benefit nor would I condone it if he did. It also has never crossed my mind, I pay for his sports so that he can have fun and hopefully learn something about life in the process. If he goes on to graduate college and decides to become a professional football or baseball player then great! He will enjoy the fruits of his labor at that time when he has attained the level of being a professional.
Until then, for the kids - please have fun and parents either be willing to bear the costs of your kids hobbies and past times yourselves and if you dont want to or cant try a fundraiser. You cant expect anyone other than yourself and maybe other parents to chip in for prize money if you want it to be there.
You are the parent, dont expect sponsors, coaches or anyone else to "give" because you feel its the right thing to do.