Another school shooting

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42897626

This is NOT OK. Our government is doing nothing and we are working on 12 school shootings in the first month of 2018.

Who's gotta die before we start to give a crap about this!

I blame the parents that didn't properly lock up their gun!!! Not the government.


Either way its still terrible

There will always be terrible parents. The governments job is to protect us.
I obviously want gun control but that looks like it will never happen in this country.

What do the gun guys on this forum think we should do?
Or is the answer just get used to kids dying on a regular basis?

Originally Posted by plhorn

The governments job is to protect us.

What? That's not the government's job at all. The government's job is to ensure your rights are not infringed. An arbitrator of disputes via the courts is arguably another role, though I would prefer my disputes resolved in private courts. The government's job is most certainly not "to protect us".

Do you think the fact schools are predominantly “gun free” zones has any effect on why the schools have been targets ? Many schools used to have an armed police presence whether that was on or off duty. Now the anti-gun crazy’s have stripped that option away from many schools. It’s allowed them to be even softer targets. Liberals have cried about even seeing an armed officer in full uniform standing at the door , because it’s too intimidating for them and their children. You don’t think that officer has any effect of deterance to a kid thinking about bringing a gun to school?



The percentage of gun crimes held by school shootings in the grand scheme of gun crimes across America Is minuscule. Tragic for sure, but nothing indicative of where the problem actually lies. The fact of the matter is that gun crimes in America are a social issue. The numbers don’t lie , unlike the people pushing the anti gun agenda. There are 100’s of laws on the books that just need stricter enforcement or enforcement period. The punishments for a majority of armed offenders are a joke.

It’s not simply a gun control issue. That’s unfortunately why the divide exists . The idiotic ant-gun nuts simply refuse to acknowlwdge where a majority of gun violence exists . It’s clearly a social / demographic issue . They want to continually focus on reducing/restricting the rights of responsible folks, that as a majority have no bearing on the criminal element . Gun lovers have consistently lobbied for stricter penalties , and more widespread enforcement of laws already on the books . That’s a fact. The same anti-gunners choose to blatantly ignore crime data because it’s effects their voting base too much.


As someone who respects guns and the rights of gun owners , The place to start in order to have the biggest effect , is to really up the penalties for gun crimes. Having a much stricter enforcement of violations would satisfy everyone. It’s a no brainer. The first step is to hold those accountable for the related crimes to the harshest standard. Eventually the fear of being prosecuted will reduce those on the fence, but then we are back at the liberal argument that will be all over every news outlet that prisons are filled with minorities , and prisons are racist . Honestly , if you can’t punish those committing the crimes , how do you expect to reduce anything? The easiest thing to do to show both sides are willing to move to a plan is to put violent gun offenders front and center and start holding them accountable. The answer is most definitely not threating to take responsible gun owners rights away . A vast majority of responsible gun owners are all for reasonable gun control laws and are open to discuss the actual gun control problems. The fact is the anti gunners refuse to discuss where the problem lies and just blame the guns themselves .

Originally Posted by xstarrider

Do you think the fact schools are predominantly “gun free” zones has any effect on why the schools have been targets ? Many schools used to have an armed police presence whether that was on or off duty. Now the anti-gun crazy’s have stripped that option away from many schools. It’s allowed them to be even softer targets. Liberals have cried about even seeing an armed officer in full uniform standing at the door , because it’s too intimidating for them and their children. You don’t think that officer has any effect of deterance to a kid thinking about bringing a gun to school?

No I don't. The biggest shooting last year was in Vegas and open carry state. Their were also several in Texas, and all these armed citizens did NOT get all "eye of the tiger" like to seem to think you will. They ran away like everyone else and then they were a nuisance to the police who then had to sort out the crazy gun toting citizens from the crazy gun toting crazies.

Originally Posted by xstarrider

The percentage of gun crimes held by school shootings in the grand scheme of gun crimes across America Is minuscule. Tragic for sure, but nothing indicative of where the problem actually lies.

So kids getting shot up in school is no big deal?!?! WTF. Yes we have bigger problems, but that doesn't mean we don't have to deal with the tiny tiny issue of kids getting shot in class.

Originally Posted by xstarrider

Gun lovers have consistently lobbied for stricter penalties , and more widespread enforcement of laws already on the books . That’s a fact.

It's also a fact that Gun Lovers have stopped laws that would take guns away from Mentally ill people. Trump overturned an Obama law that did just that. Gun Lovers have passed a law that prohibits the government from funding gun violence research. Why did they do that do you think.... Maybe they are worried that with research you wouldn't be able to say that their is no proof that gun laws could work.

Originally Posted by xstarrider

The same anti-gunners choose to blatantly ignore crime data because it’s effects their voting base too much.

I will be completely honest and say I could give a crap about bad guys killing themselves or each other. I want the crazies from killing my kids and the crazies are white guys who love guns.

Originally Posted by xstarrider

The place to start in order to have the biggest effect , is to really up the penalties for gun crimes. Having a much stricter enforcement of violations would satisfy everyone. It’s a no brainer. The first step is to hold those accountable for the related crimes to the harshest standard. Eventually the fear of being prosecuted will reduce those on the fence.

Completely worthless argument. The guys that shoot up schools are on no-bodies list and intend to die so having a worse penalty will do JACK. The only way to stop these guys is to restrict gun ownership. The Vegas shooter was a great citizen until the day he decided to kill a bunch of people. That applies to 90% of the shooters I care about.

Originally Posted by xstarrider

The easiest thing to do to show both sides are willing to move to a plan is to put violent gun offenders front and center and start holding them accountable.

Again you are confusing the issue. I don't care about suicide, or targeted gun violence in general, somebody pisses off the wrong person and gets shot, F him, he shouldn't hang out with people like that. Some kid shoots himself, F him, one less gun owner I need to worry about shooting up my kids school.

I care when its a random dude who randomly shoots up a crowd or school because he finally snapped.

What is the answer to that problem besides "tak[ing] responsible gun owners rights away"?

We can't even get a law passed that will take guns out of the hands of people who are on the no-fly list thanks to the "responsible gun owners" and their fear that someone is coming to take away their toys. Oh and for the record I have a gun, I think its fun, but I'm smart enough to know that no-one is coming to get me, and if they were it wouldn't be worth anything as defense anyways. Because I know that Rambo and Red Dawn are fiction.

Originally Posted by cadunkle

What? That's not the government's job at all. The government's job is to ensure your rights are not infringed. An arbitrator of disputes via the courts is arguably another role, though I would prefer my disputes resolved in private courts. The government's job is most certainly not "to protect us".

The main purpose of the government is exactly to protect us. We have a government so that we can operate a military so other governments don't attack us. The government operates the police and the fire department.

The very first thing any government does is establish institutions that are designed to protect us, courts, military, police, regulations against pollution, etc.

Guns dont kill people, people do. Arm ALL 12 year olds!

Is Merica great again yet?

The more guns that exist in society the more this will happen. It's just a matter of statistics. If you can't understand that, then you can't address the problem. People act all bewildered because they can't grasp the motive, as if they believe it's impossible that people think like that. The simplest answer is with a large enough sample everything possible will happen.

Locking up the people who were responsible for gun being in a place where it could be stolen in an incident like this is a reasonable starting point. But that will never happen. It doesn't have to be the parents. If you have a gun stolen from your home and it's used in a crime you get locked up. That would make people thing twice about gun ownership unless they are prepared to maintain the highest standards of security in their storage.... Pipe Dream

I want to hear what a gun lover has to offer as a solution.

Logically, gun control is the obvious answer but gun nuts wont let that happen, so what solution are they offering?

I'm a gun person my wife shoots guns and is a teacher.

She says if they would offer extensive training to teachers to allow her have a locked weapon in her class room. She would do it in a second.

I wouldn't care if they tightened the up the rules of how easy it is to get a gun. But it seem like non gun people are so stuck on. That all guns need to be melted down. Us gun advocates have no choice but strengthen our defense on the 2nd amendment.

Swatguy

I should have just read yours first then said


Agree^^ LOL

You said it much better!!!!

Taxation is theft

"But it seem like non gun people are so stuck on. That all guns need to be melted down."

Let's melt down half and observe the results.

How are you going to determine which half gets to keep there guns.


The criminals aren't going to have registered guns. So your answers is to take half of the guns ways from law abiding citizens that have registered guns that the government knows about.

Sounds smart

Originally Posted by jonblarc7

How are you going to determine which half gets to keep there guns.


The criminals aren't going to have registered guns. So your answers is to take half of the guns ways from law abiding citizens that have registered guns that the government knows about.

Sounds smart

All the guns in the in the school shootings were registered. So it sounds smart to me. Criminals that use guns aren't shooting up schools and I don't go to those neighborhoods so no problem.

That was a bit tongue in cheek. Any solution is a pipe dream. We've dug ourselves a hole that we can't get out of. The reality is that we're screwed. As long as statistically we don't believe it's our lives at risk nothing will be done. I don't care how many guns you have you can't entirely protect your family. If you have kids in school they are just as vulnerable as every other kid that's been killed. The only thing protecting them is the odds, not your guns.

How do you know that?

Originally Posted by jonblarc7

How do you know that?

You're right I don't know that for a fact because the NRA and the GOP have passed a law prohibiting the government from keeping and compiling those records. The San Bernadio one was legal. The first elementary school one was legal. The Vegas shooter used legal guns...

Tell you what, find one school shooting that was committed with a black market gun.

Sorry it's Friday I got better things to do. It's Boat Show season!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by plhorn

No I don't. The biggest shooting last year was in Vegas and open carry state. Their were also several in Texas, and all these armed citizens did NOT get all "eye of the tiger" like to seem to think you will. They ran away like everyone else and then they were a nuisance to the police who then had to sort out the crazy gun toting citizens from the crazy gun toting crazies.



So kids getting shot up in school is no big deal?!?! WTF. Yes we have bigger problems, but that doesn't mean we don't have to deal with the tiny tiny issue of kids getting shot in class.









We can't even get a law passed that will take guns out of the hands of people who are on the no-fly list thanks to the "responsible gun owners" and their fear that someone is coming to take away their toys. Oh and for the record I have a gun, I think its fun, but I'm smart enough to know that no-one is coming to get me, and if they were it wouldn't be worth anything as defense anyways. Because I know that Rambo and Red Dawn are fiction.

You first start out singling out school shootings and their problem . I addressed that. Now you have switched to mass shootings overall and the focus of crazies who snap , while a similar issue, much more difficult to address . I can point to numerous cases in which conceal carry individuals have thwarted crime whether that be against them directly or preventing a crime against another citizen from happening . It works . Plain and simple. Is a conceal carry guy with a 380, 9mmm going to be rushing at a guy with fully auto , high caliber weapons? Absolutely not .

Do you think seeing the random gun violence plastered all over each news segment across America has any effect mentally on an unstable individual ? Do you think social media and the internet ha e any effect on people’s mindsets? Do you think plastering mass shootings for months on end in every news cycle has any effect on possibly influencing an individual who at the moment is having a breakdown ? I do .

You simply can’t predict crazy . This isn’t the Minority Report . The focus should be on what triggered these individuals and why we have more and more making appearances It should be to find where they went wrong . It shouldn’t be an instant attack on guns themselves. Again can we agree gun violience is a social / mental issue not a gun issue .

As far as the no fly list rebuttal , that has everything to do with terrorists and being able to track them without raising a red flag.( so the argument goes ). I personally don’t agree with it, but i do understand the premise on trying to get the bigger fish and track more. IThe no fly list ruling has nothing to do with the lobby of gun rights advocates. It has everything to do with national security .

I ask all you anti gunners .... where were you when the ATF and holder sent a bunch of high power weapons out of the country to our enemies, which in turn were used against us not only to kill border patrol agent(possibly agents) , but also to be found at numerous crime scenes scattered throughout the US as well as Mexico . I don’t see Holder or any ATF official held accountable. I didn’t see any prominent lefty railing news cycle after news cycle calling for peoples heads for allowing 2000 high powered weapons to be sold illegally . There are roughly still 1200 plus weapons unaccounted for and over 200 bodies that have been linked directly to the weapons AUTHORIZED BY THE DOJ, ATF and Obama. There’s simply no consistency from that side at all regarding gun crimes and accountability. They’re all over the map when it suits them . 200 plus DEAD BODIES murdered as a result and not a blip. That’s almost 4 tines as many dead bodies then the Vegas shooting claimed.

I’ll answer each of your points shortly in a more detailed response. But it’s dropping snow here in BC so it’s gonna a powder morning

Plhorn you may have “jumped the gun” or posted 1/2 cocked! LOL this turns out not to be another intentional school shooting, but a Girl that brought a gun to school because she was being bullied, she had it in her back pack and when she dropped her back pack in class the gun went off and just like the JFK bullet it some how blasted threw a few diffrent people. Not like it’s ok. But kids have been bringing guns to school for years. Nothing new here. Yes it’s wrong and somthing needs to be done, the Girls parents don’t own a gun and don’t know how or where she got it. “Let me guess” someone on the street sold it to her or she stole it or some one gave it to her. All 3 diffrent ways are illegal so what to do about it clearly LAW don’t stop these types of crimes.

Originally Posted by plhorn

You're right I don't know that for a fact because the NRA and the GOP have passed a law prohibiting the government from keeping and compiling those records. The San Bernadio one was legal. The first elementary school one was legal. The Vegas shooter used legal guns...

Tell you what, find one school shooting that was committed with a black market gun.

Again your choosing to use an example that accounts for less than 1% of all gun crimes in order to illustrate a point . On average 80 percent of gun crimes used an illegally obtained firearm. Some statistics have that number as high as 88% . Of the remaining legally obtained guns 20% or so , less than 12 percent were used to commit homicides. Keep in mind that statistic also includes homicides as a result of a concealed carry individual shooting someone as well, because those are classified as homicides according to crime data. They are just later determined to be justified .

Again I understand your frustration with the active increase in multiple victim incidents. But attempting to make an argument for gun reform , simply based off those instances which account for less than 1% of gun crime is hardly where the focus should be. Should we be concerned and attempting to figure out a way or two that may prevent this. Absolutely , but arguing sweeping gun reform off minuscule instances in the grand scheme of things simply based of feelings is not the proper way. You stated you don’t care about killers killing killers. Fair stance , but those account for over 80% of gun related issues .


In 2015 cars killed over 38,000 people. Injured over 4.3miion
In 2015 guns killed 13,000 and injured over 26,000

Where is the call to ban cars? Or make stricter driving rules for everyone ? I mean we just had attacks using vehicles as weapons ?

You brought up San Bernardino , The two handguns were obtained by the shooters legally. The 2 rifles used were not obtained legally by Farook or his his wife . They were bought by someone else who then ILLEGALLY , gave them Farook and his wife to use. So your 50% correct

Originally Posted by grant_west

Plhorn you may have “jumped the gun” or posted 1/2 cocked! LOL this turns out not to be another intentional school shooting, but a Girl that brought a gun to school because she was being bullied, she had it in her back pack and when she dropped her back pack in class the gun went off and just like the JFK bullet it some how blasted threw a few diffrent people. Not like it’s ok. But kids have been bringing guns to school for years. Nothing new here. Yes it’s wrong and somthing needs to be done, the Girls parents don’t own a gun and don’t know how or where she got it. “Let me guess” someone on the street sold it to her or she stole it or some one gave it to her. All 3 diffrent ways are illegal so what to do about it clearly LAW don’t stop these types of crimes.

All of that supported my point, that with a society flooded with guns anything possible is more likely to happen. Just a matter of statistics.

Originally Posted by grant_west

Plhorn you may have “jumped the gun” or posted 1/2 cocked! LOL this turns out not to be another intentional school shooting, but a Girl that brought a gun to school because she was being bullied, she had it in her back pack and when she dropped her back pack in class the gun went off and just like the JFK bullet it some how blasted threw a few diffrent people. Not like it’s ok. But kids have been bringing guns to school for years. Nothing new here. Yes it’s wrong and somthing needs to be done, the Girls parents don’t own a gun and don’t know how or where she got it. “Let me guess” someone on the street sold it to her or she stole it or some one gave it to her. All 3 diffrent ways are illegal so what to do about it clearly LAW don’t stop these types of crimes.

So lets get rid of them and she wouldn't be able to get one.

We've had 11 shootings at schools in 2018 already

So no solutions from the gun nuts....

You don’t think Facebook or YouTube is an issue ? Place with thousands of posts identical to this , many more showing guns be waived by gang members and inciting gang conflicts. Gangs actually having their own Facebook page. And you don’t think Facebook is part of the reason for more violence ? No talk about limiting social media , but plenty of talk about limiting gun rights of well mannered , hard working citizens , that follow all the laws ?

This has no effect on someone mentally unstable or pushing them over

Swat , you seem to keep pointing to other types of gun crimes and not addressing the issue.
Nut jobs attacking schools.

in the San Bernadino case some one gave them some of their guns.... I bet that guy got them legally. Besides if they could legally get some guns they could have legally got more, it was just more convenient to borrow someone else in this case.

Yes more people die in car crashes but cars serve a real positive purpose in the real world that outweighs the risk, your gun collection does not.

Explain why your right to own "hunting" or "sporting" weapons outwieghs the rest of our right to not have crazies shooting up schools.
Besides which France has hunting, they have shooting ranges, you just can't take the gun home with you when your done. You still get to play with your toys. And the rest of us don't have to worry about you snapping.

As for your facebooks posts, EXACTLY the kind of people that we need to take guns away from but the NRA and the GOP won't let us.

In this country you can legally say crap like that and the cops can't take your guns away. That is WRONG, and its the NRAs fault.

So you think its a decline in mental health that has brought about the increase in mass shootings? Do you think the media has played any part in the increase(ie getting notoriety)?

Originally Posted by psudy

So you think its a decline in mental health that has brought about the increase in mass shootings? Do you think the media has played any part in the increase(ie getting notoriety)?

I'm sure that social media and lack of mental health treatment due to cost of medical is a major contributor.

It seems like the GOP is against gun control and against public medical treatment as well and against restricting access to gun to mentally ill people. To me it looks like the bastards in charge are doing everything they can to keep this kind of crap happening and offering up thoughts and prayers as a solution (in other words doing nothing)

I'm surprised it has taken this long to get brought up, but I blame social media more than anything for these shootings. We, as a society, have become a bunch of keyboard tough guys. Saying and doing things online that we would never say or do in person. Need proof, look no further than this forum. Unfortunately, kids can be the meanest of us all. Pair that with someone who is still developing mentally and it's a recipe for disaster. Sure, these things happened before the internet, but the frequency was a fraction of what it is now. I have talked to a lot of my circle of friends, most of which have young children, and almost every single one of them is fearful of how things will be when their kids are high school age, due to social media. And it seems that ex Facebook execs agree.

I honestly would not care if they banned social media, or limited access to 18+.

Here's France's equivalent to a school shooting.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018...paris-rampage/

No guns = no one died.

Best Korea has never once had a mass shooting!!!

And another one. Its obvious that taking guns away isn't going to happen, we should at least arm the teachers.

Originally Posted by psudy

And another one. Its obvious that taking guns away isn't going to happen, we should at least arm the teachers.

That was suggested & the left went nuts

Originally Posted by psudy

And another one. Its obvious that taking guns away isn't going to happen, we should at least arm the teachers.

My class used to make out 5th grade teacher cry on a regular basis. I had my freshmen English teacher K.O. two kids to "break up a fight". I saw my 6th grade teacher pick up a kid and throw him against a blackboard when he had finally had enough. Yeah, lets arm these guy that will work out great.

Originally Posted by plhorn

My class used to make out 5th grade teacher cry on a regular basis. I had my freshmen English teacher K.O. two kids to "break up a fight". I saw my 6th grade teacher pick up a kid and throw him against a blackboard when he had finally had enough. Yeah, lets arm these guy that will work out great.

So you are saying you don't think background checks and mental evaluations work?

Originally Posted by psudy

So you are saying you don't think background checks and mental evaluations work?

It didn't for the vegas shooter. He was fine until he wasn't. Their is a big difference between the background /mental evaluation that teachers go through than what we need if you want to arm them.

Originally Posted by plhorn

My class used to make out 5th grade teacher cry on a regular basis. I had my freshmen English teacher K.O. two kids to "break up a fight". I saw my 6th grade teacher pick up a kid and throw him against a blackboard when he had finally had enough. Yeah, lets arm these guy that will work out great.

Did the kid stop fighting and the other kid stop being an a-hole?

Well Trump just suggested arming teachers, left to lose its collective mind in 3,2....

Florida School shooting

Sen. Bill Nelson, D-Fla said "This is a really bad day." Statistically we are moving towards more "bad days" than good ones so really he meant to say "This is just another day"

Glad he said that now let's all go about our business and pretend that kids aren't going to continue to die while the government does nothing because a minority of Americans feel strongly that their rights to have easy access to the tools necessary for varmint huntin' is worth a few kids dying almost everyday.

Thoughts and prayers...

LOL^^^
Thoughts about the NRA. Prayers they are involved in the next one so I can have a moment of silencers, bumpstocks and automatic weapons. Even after Las Vegas, they did nothing about bumpstocks.
Arming teachers is such a great idea. They have such a wonderful track record. Are these not the same teachers the right dislikes because they are all lefties?

Originally Posted by 95sn

LOL^^^
Thoughts about the NRA. Prayers they are involved in the next one so I can have a moment of silencers, bumpstocks and automatic weapons. Even after Las Vegas, they did nothing about bumpstocks.
Arming teachers is such a great idea. They have such a wonderful track record. Are these not the same teachers the right dislikes because they are all lefties?

Hardly anyone knew what a bump stock was prior to vegas cause they're useless. The media gave them more attention than anything after Vegas. It took Vegas for lefties to learn about bump stocks. What a joke.

Originally Posted by racer808

Hardly anyone knew what a bump stock was prior to vegas cause they're useless. The media gave them more attention than anything after Vegas. It took Vegas for lefties to learn about bump stocks.

Us lefties wanted to make the guns that the bump stocks attach to illegal first, but you A-holes won't let us save our kids lives, tried to get rid of bump stocks and guess what, you a-holes won't let us do that either.

Originally Posted by racer808

What a joke.

Glad you think that people dying is so F'n funny. When this crap goes down in your town or your kids school do you still think it will be funny? cause there will be some other a-hole like you running around who will think its funny.

Originally Posted by plhorn

Us lefties wanted to make the guns that the bump stocks attach to illegal first, but you A-holes won't let us save our kids lives, tried to get rid of bump stocks and guess what, you a-holes won't let us do that either.


Glad you think that people dying is so F'n funny. When this crap goes down in your town or your kids school do you still think it will be funny? cause there will be some other a-hole like you running around who will think its funny.

Get a grip broseph, seek help.

Originally Posted by xstarrider

Just wondering what school shooter used a bump stock? Just wondering how many other mass shooters used one? What laws and background checks woulda prevented them ?

OK expand the topic to nut jobs that snap and go on rampages, or better yet make bumpstocks mandatory for everyone but get rid of the stupid guns.

Arming teachers is such a great idea"

It is a good idea. Obviously there would need to be a lot of training involved for the selected few. Its a doable idea, unlike the crap that is been spouted on here. If a kid knows he isn't going to be able to walk in and case carnage and will be getting shot at, I bet the numbers would go down pretty quickly.

Nah we should be taking guns always from normal citizens , when violent crime rates across the nation are tripling in major urban areas right? It’s these ligitimate citizens fault crime is out of control and psychos are shooting people. Ok anti gunners. What laws would have prevented any of the school shootings you are so using as your narrow scope ?








Lack of enforcement has nothing to do with a Police Commander being shot in the head multiple times by an armed robber wearing an illegal bullet proof vest , carrying and illegal firearm for the 3rd time in his criminal background. Happened yesterday in broad daylight at 1pm in the middle of downtown. Much like where a majority of the carjackings occur in the evening hours . The criminal element preys on the weak and areas they know they will have the least resistance from armed confrontations . That’s why schools make easy targets at the moment . No one is saying arm every teacher , bunch those qualified should have the option


when he pleaded guilty to drug possession and was sentenced to a year of probation. While serving that probation, he was charged with armed robbery and was ultimately found guilty and sentenced in 1999 to 16 years in prison.

While on parole in 2007, he was arrested for a slew of new offenses: unlawful use of a weapon and body armor by a felon, possession of a gun with a defaced serial number and a heroin charge. He pleaded guilty to the gun charge and was sentenced to three years in prison.

While out on bond in that case, he was again arrested and charged with drug possession — a case that was ultimately dropped.

In 2011 he was charged with resisting an officer and battery, records show. He was found guilty on one of the two battery counts and was sentenced to probation.

His most recent conviction was similar to his first: He pleaded guilty in 2015 to drug possession and was given two years in prison. He was discharged from parole in August 2016, according to an Illinois Department of Corrections spokeswoman.

After ascending the department ranks, Bauer assumed leadership in 2016 of the Near North District, just north of where he was shot. In that role, he publicly vented frustration about the difficulty of clearing repeat offenders from the street — a common refrain among Chicago police and political officials who confront a stubborn violent crime rate driven in part by recidivism.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.chica...story,amp.html

Swatguy, you want to talk general gun crime start another thread. This is NOT the "Criminal Element" these are guys that snap and go on a shooting spree.

As far as the kids at my schools behaving better after their Teachers lost their cool with them. I honestly can't remember. I can say that I'm glad they didn't have guns when they did lose their cool. As an adult I feel bad for the teacher we made cry on a regular basis but I do think that if she had a gun handy the odds of her doing something stupid would have been uncomfortably high.

Originally Posted by plhorn

Swatguy, you want to talk general gun crime start another thread. This is NOT the "Criminal Element" these are guys that snap and go on a shooting spree.

As far as the kids at my schools behaving better after their Teachers lost their cool with them. I honestly can't remember. I can say that I'm glad they didn't have guns when they did lose their cool. As an adult I feel bad for the teacher we made cry on a regular basis but I do think that if she had a gun handy the odds of her doing something stupid would have been uncomfortably high.

Maybe if you knew she had a gun in a safe in her desk you little bleeding heart $hits would have had a little more respect. If I found out my kid did that there would be hella consequences.

All of this comes back to crappy parenting and kids running out of control, being taught they are entitled to crap, and having no sense of responsibility. They get their feelings hurt and snap like little babies. If his parents knew anything about his crazy ANTIFA views, they are as much to blame as him, especially if it was their gun that he got a hold of.

Originally Posted by plhorn

Us lefties wanted to make the guns that the bump stocks attach to illegal first, but you A-holes won't let us save our kids lives, tried to get rid of bump stocks and guess what, you a-holes won't let us do that either.


Glad you think that people dying is so F'n funny. When this crap goes down in your town or your kids school do you still think it will be funny? cause there will be some other a-hole like you running around who will think its funny.

Just wondering what school shooter used a bump stock? Just wondering how many other mass shooters used one? What laws and background checks woulda prevented them ? What laws do you propose that woulda stopped more than 3 ?

Originally Posted by plhorn

OK expand the topic to nut jobs that snap and go on rampages, or better yet make bumpstocks mandatory for everyone but get rid of the stupid guns.

So now you want to expand because your school shooter narrative doesn’t work for your comments ? Earlier you wanted to narrow it. Man I can’t keep up .

So your solution is eliminate all guns?

Do you not understand how stupid you sound trying to talk about gun control using a focus of an event that is less than 1% of all gun crimes and gun issues ? It’s asinine. The restrictions you are wanting to discuss would apply to every aspect and situation involving gun crimes as rights as a whole.

The pro gunnners have offered 3 solutions , armed qualify teachers , allow an armed police presence back , eliminate the notation that a school is a gun free zone.

Since you now have used a single instance to further your agenda ringing up bump stocks , let me use one to counter . Not so long ago we had a shooter enter a church , he shot up a church over his girlfriend , and was ultimately stopped by an armed citizen and his budddy with one of those big black weapons built for destruction. While the most noteable as of recent , not the only instance in which a responsible firearm owner thwarted a mass shooting or was able
to reduce the carnage by intervening . If he didn’t have access to his big ,scary , black rifle we would’ve had more casualties .

6th school shooting of the year and the NRA's solution is to arm teachers. Lol. School shootings are the symptom of something larger wrong in society, guns are not the cause nor the solution.

Originally Posted by ralph

6th school shooting of the year and the NRA's solution is to arm teachers. Lol. School shootings are the symptom of something larger wrong in society, guns are not the cause nor the solution.

Yet no details of his childhood have been released. whether he lives in married home , divorced home , broken family , criminal family , has mental issues , was medicated? Blame the guns first .

Metal detectors present on the entrance ? How was he able to get the gun into school ? How did he acquire the gun? Shouldn’t we start somewhere easy like on how to prevent “illegal” guns from getting inside a school “campus”

Originally Posted by xstarrider

Yet no details of his childhood have been released. whether he lives in married home , divorced home , broken family , criminal family , has mental issues , was medicated? Blame the guns first .?

To a degree not relevant what this guys personal issues are, the reality is this guy is a product of his environment, there will be more just like him unless the environment changes. Those types of solutions are complicated and take time. Easier to just limit the access to guns.

Originally Posted by ralph

To a degree not relevant what this guys personal issues are, the reality is this guy is a product of his environment, there will be more just like him unless the environment changes. Those types of solutions are complicated and take time. Easier to just limit the access to guns.

Do you think if any of these shooters knew they would be immediately executed after being convicted of their rampage , some may have given it a second thought ?

Originally Posted by xstarrider

Since you now have used a single instance to further your agenda ringing up bump stocks , let me use one to counter . Not so long ago we had a shooter enter a church , he shot up a church over his girlfriend , and was ultimately stopped by an armed citizen and his budddy with one of those big black weapons built for destruction. While the most noteable as of recent , not the only instance in which a responsible firearm owner thwarted a mass shooting or was able
to reduce the carnage by intervening . If he didn’t have access to his big ,scary , black rifle we would’ve had more casualties .

Yeah that is a great example, There were people with guns there so they stopped him from killing the 27th person. He did successfully kill 26 though.

I'd like a solution where no-one was killed. How effective would he have been with a knife or a baseball bat. Not very.
Beside which your "good guy with a gun" didn't show until the "bad guy with a gun" was leaving the church.

Metal detectors present on the entrance ? How was he able to get the gun into school ? How did he acquire the gun? Shouldn’t we start somewhere easy like on how to prevent “illegal” guns from getting inside a school “campus

I read he shot and killed the armed guard out in front of the school.

It baffles me that people can think more guns will solve the gun violence problem. Gun manufacturers just love you guys.

It obviously was a loaded question. So now we’ve established most crazies don’t give a &&&$ about dying , how do you stop them ? No law will stop them from carrying out their crazy. Can we agree it’s the “crazy’s” responsible ? Shouldnt the main focus and attention be put towards what is actually causing more crazies to appear ?

Trumps gun law to help the crazy get their guns.
http://www.newsweek.com/trump-set-ov...ulation-557237

"There is no inherent connection to being mentally ill and dangerous"

No one's gonna change any minds here.

Unfortunately nothing will happen in congress either. Millions spent by the NRA to ensure that:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...?smid=fb-share

referer=https%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FGCulP2x79z"]https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/07/world/americas/mass-shootings-us-international.html?referer=https%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FGC ulP2x79z[/URL]

There is a great graph that shows the more guns the more mass shootings.
Which of course falls into the no duh category

Oh forgot, Sandy Hook didn’t actually happen. Fake news!

And now it's out he was a communist radical left wing with ANTIFA crap all over his FB. A product of his environment. Every mass shooting has been some left wing nut. But the NRA's the problem.

Originally Posted by racist808

And now it's out he was a communist radical left wing with ANTIFA crap all over his FB. A product of his environment. Every mass shooting has been some left wing nut. But the NRA's the problem.

What are you talking about, it's alt-right who are more predisposed to goosestepping around killing people. Not that it matters, you can't judge a whole group of people because of what am unstable individual at the extremes

Originally Posted by racer808

And now it's out he was a communist radical left wing with ANTIFA crap all over his FB. A product of his environment. Every mass shooting has been some left wing nut. But the NRA's the problem.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/nikola...up-leader-says

Trained with a white supremacist group and wore a MAGA hat to school.

On the one hand we have bleeding heart liberals arguing that access to military grade weapons should be restricted.

On the other hand we have second amendment defenders arguing that this is a mental health issue, not a gun issue.

I know that the bleeding heart liberals have suggested restrictions on access to certain weapons and parts. What have the second amendment defenders done to address the mental health side? Is there an expansion of public mental health treatment being advocated that I'm unaware of?

Originally Posted by shawndoggy

On the one hand we have bleeding heart liberals arguing that access to military grade weapons should be restricted.

On the other hand we have second amendment defenders arguing that this is a mental health issue, not a gun issue.

I know that the bleeding heart liberals have suggested restrictions on access to certain weapons and parts. What have the second amendment defenders done to address the mental health side? Is there an expansion of public mental health treatment being advocated that I'm unaware of?

Yes and for a while. The problem is a lack of mental health professionals. You can fund all you want but if there aren't many entering the field as mental health professionals then there isn't staff available. It takes 12 weeks to get in with a mental health facility & that's IF their even accepting new patients. Vast majority won't take medicaid, Gov mental health services are just as backed up & have long waiting lists.

In this case though, people were warning the FBI, the school, local police & no one listened or did anything about him. Lots of blame to go around. The push right now should be to make it a little easier to 5150 someone especially when their making violent threats & have them evaluated.

why aren't people entering the field, do you think?

Originally Posted by shawndoggy

why aren't people entering the field, do you think?

The google says the student debt far out weighs the pay for mental health professionals making it a poor choice for a career field. They state it's a high burnout career as well.

Originally Posted by racer808

The google says the student debt far out weighs the pay for mental health professionals making it a poor choice for a career field. They state it's a high burnout career as well.

Don't those sound like problems that actually COULD be fixed with money?

Originally Posted by shawndoggy

Don't those sound like problems that actually COULD be fixed with money?

For who? Any swinging dick that wants to enter the field? Why are kids with full rides not choosing that field? Do you plan to fast track people who couldn't get accepted or make it through the schooling just to meet quotas? If mental health is not affordable now what makes you think the cost will be brought down? Gov regulating what they can charge? Subsidies? And when those run out like they always do? Social worker is a great example, get a masters to earn 40k a year & since it's gov aside from your benefits you'll never make a decent wage. That is exactly what will happen to PHD's in mental health, lower wages. The Gov already pays for mental health via Obamacare but since the fee is structure & limited most doctors won't accept it & want cash.

I just googled mental health in the UK & Canada & they seem to have even bigger problem than we do, minus the crazies shooting **** up.

Originally Posted by racer808

I just googled mental health in the UK & Canada & they seem to have even bigger problem than we do, minus the crazies shooting **** up.

Hmmm, what's different about the UK and Canada? Off the top of my head, I'm going to say access to firearms, something that the right takes off the table here. So if that's off the table, we can't just say, "well sure, we do have mass shootings, but that's a function of mental health and look, these other developed countries have bad mental healthcare too"

With great power comes great responsibility. If we aren't responsible enough to have a mental healthcare system that's up to the task of addressing the "crazies," then are we responsible enough to have such easy access to firearms?

Why are kids with full rides not choosing that field?

you said because it doesn't pay well enough. If we (we meaning all of us meaning yes, government funding) correct the poor compensation problem that should attract more qualified candidates, no?

Do you plan to fast track people who couldn't get accepted or make it through the schooling just to meet quotas?

No? Did I say that? This doesn't seem like a problem that gets fixed overnight. Columbine was 20 years ago... how about 20 years from now we're doing a much better job?

If mental health is not affordable now what makes you think the cost will be brought down?

Controlling access to firearms is not a priority so we have to fix it the more expensive way. That means government funding.

Gov regulating what they can charge? Subsidies?

vast expansion of public mental healthcare sounds like the right's argument, right? So yeah, basically, public funding.

And when those run out like they always do?

We do like Trump and borrow from the future like we always do? These shooters all seem to have pretty B.A. firearms too, so is money really that tight?

Social worker is a great example, get a masters to earn 40k a year & since it's gov aside from your benefits you'll never make a decent wage. That is exactly what will happen to PHD's in mental health, lower wages. The Gov already pays for mental health via Obamacare but since the fee is structure & limited most doctors won't accept it & want cash.

That's just saying that there's a funding problem, right? When we don't have enough money being spent on defense, what do we do? We spend more. Need more nukes? spend more. Need more ships? spend more. Need more Navy? spend more. How many defense contractors are getting out of the game because the pay just isn't there? Why should this be any different?

https://www.dailywire.com/news/27326...ign=benshapiro
This is a really great new. What do you have to loose.Concealed permits and the right to have it accessible. There are alot of good teachers out there.

As long as schools are gun free zones, crazies will continue to shoot people there. It's quite simple.

I did just read the kid went out and bought an AR-15 at 18 years old. I think that is too young to be able to purchase such gun, and I would support putting heavy restrictions/background/mental checks on purchasing them.

Originally Posted by psudy

I did just read the kid went out and bought an AR-15 at 18 years old. I think that is too young to be able to purchase such gun, and I would support putting heavy restrictions/background/mental checks on purchasing them.

I can agree with that. The only issue with "mental health" is what, who determines the level of crazy? Here in CO if you get a MMJ card you can no longer get a conceal carry. I do agree the age limit needs to be raised. I would also suggest X amount of hours in fire arm training to get a permit. Would also give an instructor time working with the student to see what if anything stands out about that person & file a report or decline to pass them.