Next Level of Boot/Biding Modification

I was thinking i would wait till i actually tested this out and thought, what the heck, i'll show it off now anyway since i am home, feeling ill.

i expect i might get a few negative comments, but i don't care, bring it on, but wish me luck all the same ;)

I thought i'd try to modify my boots (Slingshot D2) boots so that they would use a quicker adjustable strap method instead of the laces. BUT make all modifications TEMPORARY, nothing changing the boot itself. more like a free floating harnessing system

I was originally thinking velcro/ hook-and-loop-tape. but decided that it would be more expensive and more work, requiring more sewing than the buckles idea.

I still have just a few touch-ups till it is complete (mainly sewing a small loop on the strap ends to keep the buckles from sliding off and stuff)

I believe it would be easy to do this sort of thing on nearly any binding, especially the ones that have a removable base plate to loop the straps through as i have done. any kind of fastening straps could be used: Hook and Loop, Buckles, Ratchets, etc.

The Nearly Nearly Complete Mod







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My Materials:
12 feet of 1 1/2 inch webbing strap
6 feet of 1 inch webbing strap
6 1 1/2 inch plastic buckles for strap
2 D rings (sized close to the 1 1/2 inch)
Cost: $25.00 (small town hardware store price)

And some Procedural Photos:











Other notes:
*The strap over the toes is the least worrisome
*The strap over the ankle required a bit of creativity making the harness that looped around the bottom and back allowing for an angled path and pull (i used about an 18 inch loop to make the harness and sewed it together with the D ring and buckle attached (shown in picture above on the linoleum tile floor)
*The only 'difficulty' of the top strap was connecting it to the harness so it wont get lost. This allows me to put the strap higher or lower too. OR to add a second later if i desire for a total of 4 straps
*If the buckles break i will be able to easily replace them and fit them on without undoing everything WITH EXCEPTION to the one that is attached to the ankle harness. it had to be at the side to maintain flexibility and due to its size, had to be a D-ring AND the Buckle simultaneously... if that makes sense
*most straps have the end folded three or more times and sewn. i can't sew through that much so i am gona sew a loop around a piece of rope instead. later i will be able to take the rope out easier than removing stitches to replace the buckles if necessary.

I imagine that the best way to do a hook-and-loop version would be to have D rings (2 per strap) attached at either sides of the binding and then a velcro strap, like this
http://www.traditioncreek.com/storefront/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_56_345_35 8&products_id=1051
that loops through the rings and tightens the whole system... just imagine that i HAD put a D ring on both sides for the ankle strap for example. then all that would have to happen is to buy a new strap. no tampering with the binding again.

Ohh, heres the pics of the way i attached the upper strap so it wont get lost (still not attached firmly)





and make sure to save the laces! just in case

Dang dude nice job! Sorry but I gotta say it...reminds me a tiny bit of the LF Vantage.

I've never worn Slingshot boots...but all that I've heard about the latest models are that they are comfortable. Why did you feel the need to do this...and do you think the time factor or hold down factor is going to be better?

Yea, don't get me wrong. I Love my slingshot boots! yes they are very comfy


I did this to potentially make the boots FASTER and simpler to put on and off. mainly i think that i am just a firm believer of strap style bindings and think much could be improved upon on the existing ones like the vantage. having replaceable straps is number one on the agenda of strap bindings. i think everyone can agree on that point?
I did this also to stay my insanity of not having gone boarding yet. *** AHHAHAHHHAHHH ;(!!!! ***
Largely i did this also to potentially help other people modify or at least to spread some ideas for mods or even future binding models from the big guys (wishful thinking)

Ohh... and another GREAT thing about straps is putting bindings on in DEEP water for those without swim steps or those who crash and fall out. I don't care how easy a boot can be with laces, in deep water, things get much more difficult, especially if your wearing gloves 'cause it is cold or 'cause you prefer gloves

as for hold-down factor, I put the Mod on and the un-modified (still with laces) on and the tightness and support felt the same... IN THE LIVING ROOM... but i am hoping the release on crashes will be better too... though i can't say i have really had any trouble in the past, but i know others say they don't release good

It does not take me too long to get in and out of the D2 boots with the laces (about 30 sec per boot) but new people try them on and it takes them a long while to figure it all out. and heck, i still would not mind them being quicker. Slingshots bindings open Wider than anything else i have seen, its just you have to loosen all the laces first(which takes time), so naturally speed has been the greatest complaint of the slingshot boots (especially when utilizing all three laces)

(Message edited by wakerider111 on May 15, 2009)

Simply put, If the Vantages (or Gator Phantoms) had the Slingshot 4 hole mounting hardware and had the ability to easily replace straps i would not hesitate to buy them this instant.

(Message edited by wakerider111 on May 15, 2009)

I got a friend that has a slingshot set up and loves them but always complains about getting in and out of the bindings. I'll have to point him to this thread. I think it should work really good if the straps don't loosen up after a few jump. Could see it on some bindings in the near future.

All the strap ends are sewn and complete, all i have to do is put them back on the board.

BooYah! Check that wide Open Mouth, Gene Simmons tongue action! about 10 seconds to undo and get out dry with no strain and effort what so ever, or as fast as you can press the clips of three buckles basically.


I think the straps will only loosen on more major stresses, which hopefully will result in more comfortable falls/exits. still i will have to see how the system works with real wakeboarding stress and when the straps are wet. but if they work good for vests, why not eh? I'll be sure to keep you all updated when i finally get out on the lake.

the strap i worry most about loosening is the middle ankle strap. the buckles are just so long that the stress of the strap pulling motion is more perpendicular to the buckle and thus more liable to loosen. i might have to add one of them little additional strap locking things (the plastic square with an additional rung in the middle thing)... if i have enough strap. if someone wants to duplicate this i might recommend more excess strap for pulling on maybe or adding the additional locking things

That could be better for the cable riders for sure... it took me quite a while to get in and out with all the laces slingshots bindings had when I was at the cable I was getting annoyed! Nice work man!

Jeremy, really dig the creativity and not settling for what the companies give us. I have been doing some mods to my slingshot boots also, but want to test it first before i post, let me know how your idea works out

good mod for cable or winch, I am too picky though when it comes to riding behind boat though to modify boots that already exceed everyone elses and possibly loose even a little bit of the comfort i get from the laces. Winch or cable i dont find it as important, those places are about speed of in and out.

I'm gona guess that more strap bindings are gona come out in the following years due to the popularity of the vantage and the increase of winching and cable.

glad you all like the work and idea though

Well I just barely got the no slip pieces i was talking about for the middle/ankle strap. I DO believe this will help a lot in the no slip department... again, from a living-room test.

Putting the no-slip pieces on however makes it difficult to pull and tighten (or loosen) the straps. But if you have the length where you want it there is no need, and the strap is always ready to go for the length and tightness that you want. Yet, use of these might work too well and not loosen on hard crashes... depending on what a person desires. Also these pieces should help in preventing the buckles from sliding off the strap involuntarily

also notice where my finger points to the fold on the strap end with the red stitching. one LOOP with a small bit of excess (i recommend more excess than what i did here), used to hook and stop the buckle if it wants to slide off. two layers (or one loop) of the strap material can slide through the buckle eyelets so there is no necessity to break the stitches to put new buckles on if the others break. And if someone decides they don't trust the single loop of material to keep the buckles on then a temporary piece of rope or other object can be put inside that loop to prevent the buckle from sliding off the strap

again, if any are thinking of this same system of straps and fasteners mod, i recommend getting more strap than i did. i think i am running close to the minimum workable length, especially for adding the loops on the ends of the straps and the optional no-slip pieces... though the lengths i have cut for me are working fine so far

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If any of you are down in Powell, for Bro-Stock or otherwise, (Arizona side) and wear a size 11 or smaller and want to test em out in person (granted i still have them modified which i think i will) send me a PM and/or we will hook up... or even if you have other questions and you like this idea feel free to send a message.

(Message edited by wakerider111 on May 16, 2009)

(Message edited by wakerider111 on May 16, 2009)

no probs with ducking and keeping the harness the same. Ready to shred!

I love the creativity, and Im all for modding your gear to suit what you need.

I had a similar problem with my company bindings which I love but they were an extreme pain in the ass because basically every time you take them off the liners come out also. Not so much a biggie for a boat rider but for cable its a deal breaker.

My solution was simple in the end I just glued the liner inside so its permanently in there. Where the screws go through I also cut out small holes through the liner. I cant even feel the difference and now they operate just like regular bindings.

I never really understood the reason for the separate liner for flex board bindings and having done this mod it just confirms what I thought, no need for a separate liner, just have the screws go straight through.

seperate liners were so you could heat mold them yourself in your oven and so that you could take the liners out to let them dry so that they dont stink. for cable it would suck, but for boat it isnt bad, I like that I can take the liners out to let them dry.

I took the dual lace thing out and just use one lace for the whole boot. Works great, specially for winchin. Gonna see how well it works for cable this week.

Hey jeremy just a heads up I made strap similar to yours about ten years ago. You might want to double up the stitching by maakeing a box then Xing it. I found on my protos that the early stitching like yours came undone quickly.
I like thinking outside the box
GOOD JOB

it could just be the company bindings then, I have a friend who rides the D2's and he said the liner doesnt come out when he takes them off. But the company liners are literally impossible to keep in when you come out. But aside from that I love them and its Company's first season, so I'm expecting great things from their second season line up.

wow, pretty sweet. great idea. I just wore my Vantages for the first time this weekend. Big fan of the velcro but like what you've got there, wouldnt wear out as easy. I'm completely over the crappy laces and buckles that all of the companies use that wear out after like 4 uses. I dont want to have to tighten my binding 5 times during my set. Let us know how they work out.

i'll keep it in mind itch.

the only stitches i worry about are the ones holding the harness together in the loop for the middle ankle one.

i am hoping the fact that because it is squished between the boot and the base that the stress wont be as bad. one of them i glued as well but the other i did not think to before i screwed it into place

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hopefully within the week i will get to go out. I am starting to go crazy, especially now that i am anxious to try the new mod. might have to go thumb a ride

hope you dont have any trouble with the buckles..... those things break on backpacks and such all the time. i dont know what kind you got but from experience plastic buckles seem to pop with alot of pressure on them. the idea is sick tho and you did an awesome job putting them together.
mad props

TEST NUMBER ONE:

Conditions:
Behind a large 4-seater wave runner
Very choppy water (near white capping)
1st time out this season (FINALLY)

Thoughts/ Results:
Though the water was too bad for anything more advanced than a 180 i felt it was a good test despite. I rode for a good 15-20 minutes in the chop which created enough chatter to loosen the top and bottom straps because they do not have the no-slip pieces. the middle/ ankle strap stayed tight due to these pieces.

The boot was not really any easier to put ON in the water as was with the laces. i might need a bit more time to get used to it. also it IS a free-floating system (not sewn into the boot) and the straps are free to dangle at their full lengths when not buckled, proving to be a bit cumbersome for the top strap anyway. A friend who has ridden with me in the past was with me on this trip and had similar thoughts as well.

I can't decide if there is a a tiny bit more heel lift or not. i almost wish i could have one of each of the boots (mod and un-modified) on the board simultaneously to get a better/ live comparison. ...its a lot easier to get leverage to test this when the boots are ON the board...


Conclusions and further Changes:
I put No-slip pieces on the top strap.

I decided the bottom/over-lower-foot strap is pointless and i do not feel a difference when buckled or not. i removed the buckles for spares and tied the straps off to the side so i can play with them again in the future if i want. so now there is essentially 2 straps/ buckles per boot.

With THIS, particular design and buckle style I have decided that the no-slip pieces are Necessary for all the straps. I was hoping for something that could be tightened by pulling and staying tight, but this has its benefits too. time would have to be spent initially dialing down the length you want on each strap and then after that they would be ready to go for each successive set on the water... or so i believe and hope.


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Overall i am pretty happy with how things are going, and still have high hopes that i can get this functioning well enough to keep on the boots.
I will be going out again this holiday weekend (monday) to test it a second time with the latest modifications. once again, stay tuned till then!

TEST TWO:

Conditions
I/O boat with Tower
Choppy and smooth conditions off and on

thoughts and stuff
The latest mod worked great with the no-slip pieces added. The straps never loosened up like before even after 3 sets of wakeboarding. Two straps is plenty for me as i thought. I landed a few backrolls with them on. attempted a couple of 360s that are still obviously rusty. had a few crashes (not really hard, and not all easy going ones either) but can't tell if they would release better than with the laces.

Getting out (dry or in water) is definitely simpler and getting in is a bit simpler too (out of water), but would be even more simple if the straps were not free-floating and were sewn into the boot instead.

I have decided i am comfortable leaving the boots like this till something similar is actually produced in the future.

...

on another point, seems other ideas are brooding here http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/1/699495.html?1243300586 "Slingshot binding idea for winching and cable"

haha yeah thanks, i've been sitting on that one for a little while now