My newest creation

3 pounds 3 oz. Corecell A500 rails and skin, Kevlar, Carbon and Zylon bits. It's hard to see but the red and blue are both metalflake - the red has gold flecks and the blue has silver flecks.

Just let me know when the roadrunner is done

Here is the newest MoB model Sleigh shaped it getting glassed today

Hey Kona, put this date on your calendar - the RR will be finished 60 days after I win the lottery.

JL, that's a sweet shape that Josh did. Have any particulars? Is Ghetto House doing the glassing?

JL, that is one sweet looking board. How long is it? It totally looks like an ocean stick shrunk down for wakesurfing!

Hahaha. Then I will buy after I win the lottery

If you get the winning ticket I'll split the ticket cost with you so we can split the prize, OK?

That the new Sleigh MoB Board. Josh's dad Randy Sleigh is a North Shore Legend for his Boards ,Josh is also a great Shaper we are working with Rick Rock as he is also a Master of Boards Rick & Josh Came up with the surf skate we are making 2 models

That outline looks vaguely like a board Josh used to ride before the skate. I can remember a "name this trick" contest - was it in surfer magazine back around '04 or '05? Is it called a sex change? Where Josh hit the wave backside airs the board and does the body varial, holding the board to keep it from rotating and then lands switch frontside...anyway, this current shape looks very similar to what I remember in those sequence shots

That Board was a Hamish The trick is The Sack Lunch . Trans World Surf's contest winner renamed the trick the Crazy Chester

JL,
Looks like we need to make another trip out the lake once they are cured.

You got that right Sleigh is ready Rick Rock wants to try it I Was at lowers WQS today
Machado pulled a front 360 warming up

jeff is that the board with thinner design, can't really tell from the picture.

Rob Macahdo is amazing to watch. What is he riding there JL?

Hey WAlove, thanks for following along, I didn't post any of this build on WW. That thinner build just came out too heavy, it wound up around 5 pounds without traction or fins - that's commercial board weight. I liked the concept of the thinner design, but it also robs so much of the stiffness that extra resin and fabric was needed to make it perfom.

The build at the top of this thread is just slightly thinner than what James normally rides, about 1/8" thinner under the front foot and about 1/4 through the tail. I'm shooting for a board that weighs less than 3 pounds and doesn't BREAK on the first ride

Channel Islands http://www.cisurfboards.com/sb_machadomodel.asp

jeff what advantage of the making the board such a light weight, more height to ollies?

I haven't been on many boards, i mainly use an inland chubby thats quite a few years old. I really like the the way the thin sharp rail performs compared to a new IS yellow. I can use the rail to make quicker turns. That why i was interested in your thin build.

i've got another question for you though

Last year my buddy and i got gifted a blue lake with 4.5 carbon fins. We are looking to add these fins to the chubby by cutting and glassing the rectangular fin boxes in. The chubby is a quite thin, just less then an inch if i remember. Im worried that adding another set of fin boxes is going to weaken the board too much and lead to breakage. I was thinking about adding a horizontal section of glass connecting the fin boxes, but don't know if this will add the strength i need. Next question is fin placement, but i don't have the board with me so i couldn't give you any info on where the current fin are relative to the tail and rails but if you had any good links about quad fin designs i would be interested.

heres the only picture i have that shows the fins

Hey WALove,

I think the most well known and respected source of fin placement for quads is McKee - here is his table that gives placement details, but it stops at a 5'6" board.

http://www.mckeesurf.com/brucemckee/indexfiles/formulas/mckee_quattro_formula_shortboards_guns_2009.pdf

I was never able to get a quad to work, I know that there are folks that seem to have a handle on it - the SS Comp I and Hazen and Stieg pro models. The best I could ever get was a 1 inch gap from the front box to the trailing box and inside also. The toe pointing to the same imaginary point up at the nose for all 4 fins. Slightly less cant in the trailers.

I had a chubby just like that! They used the o'fish'l fin system in that board, I think with the Z clip. If I may suggest, rather than dismember that Blue, buy a set of o'fish'l fin boxes and install those. My concerns are installing the cobra boxes in that thin Chubby. We know the o'fish'l boxes fit. O'fish'l also offers some nice matched quad fin sets.

O'fish'l's website is here

I don't think that adding an additional set of boxes will weaken that board. The boxes themselves will stiffen the area up and if you epoxy them in well, you shoulod be fine. I think it's a really cool modification! If you want to be doubly certain, a layer of fiberglass over the boxes would be a nice insurance policy, but I think overkill.

As for the light weight - I could give you a spiel about lower swing and "unsprung weight" but honestly, it's just a challenge for me. I haven't been able to make a 2 pound board that didn't self-destruct, so...THAT's the real impetus. I'm GOING to do it, or die trying!!!!

Let me know if you want to stick with the blue donor fin boxes, I can give you more specific guidance.

The new (08 and on) inland fins don't use a plastic fin box like i've seen on the board you build, they just have a rectangular hole in the base and that match the top of the fin. The fins are then attached with a screw through the top deck. (the big boy carbons if you look at their sight. I was planning to cut my own rectangular holes in the chubby then glassing them to make my own box. So we would just be swapping the fins from the blue when we wanted to. I talked to Lance from inland last summer and he told us when doing R&D on the quads they cut the hole in the base and then epoxied wood vanier to the sides and the bottom. I figured that fiberglass and epoxy would seal the foam and add strength.

What do you mean by "never getting a quad to work"? You weren't satisfied with the performance. I am looking for a little more drive and don't mind to sacrifice some looseness. I was getting some small aerials last summer and wanted more speed to boost higher this year. I figured that going quad would do that.

I looked into getting different O'fish fins like 4 1/2's but figured i already had the inland fins and the were simple to attach so i give them a try.

I'd never cut a good board, the blue lake i have was crushed (1" wide 1" deep channel running rail to rail across the nose) by fed ex and then screwed the wall in the gear shop before my buddy and i brought it back to life.

(Message edited by masonwakerider on May 02, 2009)

Oh my - yeah a FedEx Truck isn't good for a board.

Yeah, I've seen the newer IS's. They do use a fin box, but it's proprietary to Cobra. You can find inserts for the box that allow you to swap in FCS fins.

Your plan for the 'glass and epoxy "box" would work fine. Route the hole and then seal it up with epoxy and a touch of 4 or 6 oz 'glass. I like it!

IMO, a good quad setup is hard to do. Or maybe more accurately, it's easier to screw up a quad. I think I tested all the BAD and UGLY positions. The extra fin area will give drive, just like you want, but it also adds a considerable amount of drag if the fins aren't working in harmony. I know that ASC, Smed, TWP, SS and IS all seem to have functional quad's. I just never cared for how it "stiffened" up the tail and required more effort to turn. I've ridden a few of the commercial quad's available and always felt the same about those also.

I was just thinking about your fin box creation. If you could wrap some polyethelene around the fin base, you could use that to mold the fin box in the board. The epoxy won't stick to it and you'd have proper alingment as the epoxy cured. I'd recommend a slower cure epoxy so that you had time to position each fin.

I think it will work! Be sure to post up your progess, it sounds like it will be a fun modification for you.

(Message edited by surfdad on May 02, 2009)

i like the idea of using the fin as the mold for the box. The board is very loose as so more effort to turn is not a concern. Extra drag may be as the board is not they fastest down the line to begin with. Most quads i have looked at place the larger fins to the outside with smaller fins forward and to the middle. For what ever reason i had imagined placing the new fins just rearward of the current fins to help the board rotate more towards the tail. Inland places their center pair of fins forward of the outside set. Is there a rational to ether of these choices.

With quad design being easy to screw up and i only have one shot at it i am starting to be a bit concerned.

Inland has done something unique with their quad design. I don't know of any other board builder that uses that setup. I believe that IS refers to it as an "A Frame" fin pod.

I do believe that your "imagined" trailer fin placement is the most common.

Check this link over at Proctor surf. Todd does a good job with design and also marketing. The board on the right has a rollover option and you can get a pretty good look at the fin placement AND toe and cant of the trailers.

http://www.proctorsurf.com/Surf-Boards/Quad-Fin

Take careful note of Lee in that movie also. In those small 2 foot waves he is really pumping like crazy - that's not a function of the fins alone, the board he is riding is designed for large more powerful waves...but THAT is what I always felt like on quads. It was a great aerobic workout!

At faster speeds, quads seem to come alive, but at slower speeds - like behind the boat they were easy to mess up.

I was talking with Jerry Price of Shred Stixx last year about quads and he was into his third or fourth year of testing at that point and felt that he was finally getting it right. Which is about when I gave up on them

I don't think that you'll only have one chance. If you don't like the fin placement, you can fill the boxes/holes in with 8 pound pour foam, laminiante it over and then do another placement. Your board will start to look a bit like a franken'board, but it won't be ruined. You'd probably want to stop at two or three tries.

In ocean surfboard design, the thruster has the "stiffest" feeling tail and also had the most drag. The twin and twinzer designs have the loosest or "skatey"'ish feel and the least drag. The quad design was an effort to offer more drive than the twins, without stiffening up the tail as much as a thruster. Keep in mind how much more powerful the waves in the ocean are compared to behind the boat.

I don't know that IS had a sepcific design criteria in mind when they developed that a-frame as much as a "hey! let's try this" moment. I think a bunch of designs come from those sorts of moments. I do believe that what they found on that a frame fin pod is that turns weren't as drawn out as rear trailer quad, the turns still felt aggressive without stiffening up the tail so much. You also have to keep in mind that the IS fins won't have any cant (angle from the base to the tip outward towards the rails). I believe that in a hard turn, the inside fins then have a negative angle of attack and are releasing water at that point, but come back "on" faster than fins with some cant. Also, fins with less cant are more drivey, but reach that "stall" angle in turns quicker.

Sheesh - it's no wonder I could never get quads to work my brain is about to explode after this discussion and we're only touching the surface! To answer your question directly, I believe that the a-frame like IS does, offers drive, doesn't stiffen up the tail and gives a feeling of quicker more aggressive turns. The quads with a rear trailers will offer more drive, a slightly more stiff tail and turns will feel longer or more drawn out.

I don't mean to disuade you WALove...I really love experimenting with this sort of thing and honestly as my buddy Dennis and I discuss often, so many theories from the ocean don't translate well to behind the boat. Many times when we tried something that shoouldn't work it wound up being sterling!

Try riding that blue and get a feel for the way the quad rides. I'd also study as many pictures as you can from the wakesurf folks that are doing quads ASC, TWP, SS, SMED - then just go for it!

This board rode amazingly well. The Corecell seemed to made it substantially more snappy than the similarly built divinycell boards. I like this construction.

We threw Dennis on it also, I always like to see if a board will allow Dennis to ride it. 3 pounds 3 oz board supporting 265 pounds of Dennis

James doing a little ollie-oop three.

so heres a picture from last summer of the chubby cranking a turn

so heres a picture from last summer of the chubby cranking a turn i think im going to try the second set of fins just half rear of o'fish'l set with the front of the fin lining up with the middle of the other

Does Dennis always ride backside? Or does he like the goofy side to?

Hey Duffy, Dennis prefers the darkside, but he is in the minority in our crew. Yesterday the weather was so crappy, that we didn't hit the lake until close to 3. When we have a short day like that, and when Dennis is the only goofy rider, we just surf the port side rather than fill the darkside, then drain and fill the port side.

On a typical day we start on the darkside, then ballast the port side sac from the darkside sac around lunch time and ride the port side for the rest of the day.

WALove - nice PFD. Sounds like a fun experiment - let us know how it goes.

Waiting for a pull

I love that outline! Tell us about the logo's, please. Is Rock offering the MOB or is MOB offering a line of boards?

Rick Rock & MoB have joined forces to create a MoB line of Progressive Wake Surfboards with Ricks expertise & Sleigh's Mind , we have some sick shapes & materials to work with

Sweet! Parabolic stringered thruster and that last quad looks like XPS rails? That's pretty amazing stuff if you have the magic touch to laminate it. Lots of "twang".

I may be way out of touch, but when did Rick leave Lost?

He is a ghost shaper for Lost, Chili, MR , Placebo,and many others , plus he has his Rock board line

Goofy riders should never be coined 'minority'. haha. Dennis needs to move down here, near the black and blue crew and ride where he belongs....ON THE DARKSIDE

Hey Notso,
thanks for the offer. I lived down there till '90. Don't know that I could live down there again. Many more lakes up here. I will get down to ride with the black and blue crew soon though.

Any time Dennis, any time.

that MoB is sweet one

I am really liking how the corecell pops.