Another Ballast System Thread...

I have been reading through the past threads and studied up on all the different methods of installing a ballast system. I'M TIRED OF HANGING PUMPS OFF THE SIDE! It is time to set up a ballast system! Through my research I think I have a system that seems to be pretty fail-safe (atleast on paper). My plan is to use one Rule 3800 to both fill AND empty the two sacks in the V drive compartments. I know one of the main pros of the 3800 is obviously the massive amount of flow... should fill the two 500 lb sacks in less than 5 mins (based off of: 1 gal = 8.33 lbs and 3800 gph / 60mins = 63.33 gpm --> 527 lbs in 2 mins!!! OMG! Of course under perfect conditions) Anyway. I also know that the 3800 has some cons as well, including the fact that it is extremely difficult to prime. I have seen where some have actually gone so far as to install a smaller pump before the 3800 just to prime this puppy. My plan is somewhat different. I plan on adding another scoop style raw water intake to prime the 3800 by simply driving forward and forcing water into the feed, up the hose thus priming the pump (fingers crossed big time here). I will shut off the empty valves to both the drain through hull and the empty valve feeding from the sacks. Open the fill valves on the raw water feed as well as the two post pump valves and it should fill perfectly. I will change all valve settings to empty. I also plan on strategically placing check valves in the system just to make sure water is not trying to sneak back in the wrong direction. As you can see I will be filling and emptying with the same line from the sacks. My sacks have three openings and I will be connecting the hose/pvc to the back (lowest point) of the sack. In my diagram below: the top is the back of the boat.

I would be greatly appreciate any advice and if you see that this should work. Thanks in advance.

Do you realize that the rule pumps are not reversible? For this type of application, you could fill with one rule pump, but then you would have to put another pump on each tank to empty them. That would be a total of 3 pumps if you have to tanks. I'm kinda having a hard time following your diagram, but the way you talked, it sounds like you were planning on using the one rule 3800 to fill and empty, which you cannot do. Hope this helps.

I completely understand that the Rule is a single directional pump. Note the single direction of flow of the pump (which i failed to label). I should have labeled the diagram better. The small circle bottom right is the raw water in... the green line out to the left is the out. If you were to open the two valves towards the right of the diagram (the top right valve should not even be there.. my bad) and close the valves on the left. Wouldn't it fill? The other lines are completely sealed off. Vice Versa... if you shut the two valves on the right of the diagram (once again the top right valve should not even be there)it would cancel out the fill setting and open the two valves on the left for the drain setting.

If I'm reading the diagram right, I think it would do exactly what you're saying. Fill with the valves setup one way, and empty when setup the other. Looks great to me.

You might look into electric valves, similar to what some integrated ballast systems use. You could setup a switch panel to control all this from the helm.

As a comparison, my SSV's system is setup like this:

The water inlet goes through a manual shut-off valve (emergency), a strainer, and into one big pump. The flow then goes to a manifold with three electric valves hanging off it, each going to one of the three ballast tanks. The valves are controlled by the fill and empty switches at the helm.

When a tank is called on to be filled, the pump comes on, and the corresponding valve opens. One, two, or all three can open and fill just one, or up to all the bags at once.

Emptying is different though. Each bag has it's own individual pump which dumps overboard out the side, similar to a bilge pump.

I think your system would work great, only drawback being it might not empty very well while you're driving, since water will be forced into the water inlet against the flow. Probably not a huge deal.

I have used that system exactly and then modified over a few years. Here are my tips.

1. If your intent on one pump, mount the 3800 lower or = to the water intake if possible.

2. You will need a bump to about 20MPH to get a good prime if you can't follow # 1.

3. System may loose prime when you stop unless you shut all valves before turning off pump and have no air leaks. (your closed system should not have this problem)

4. I recomend using a manifold with all valves in one location for easy access.

5. Adding one self priming pump to the system is worth it if you want to start filling while in the Marina.

6. Pressure at 30mph plus is huge, use good clamps and a brass shut of valve at hull intake.

Are you SURE you don't want to go with a pair of Rule 1100s instead of the single 3800? In fact, couldn't you buy four 1100s for the same price?

The thing is that you're encountering a lot of hassle for just a thousand pounds of water. If you went with a nice ($$) reversible vane pump, you would end up flipping a lot less valves.

My second choice with your setup (behind the Ballast Puppy) would be to get two or four Rule 1100s. The reason for this is that you'll have redundancy on board and still a ton of water flow. If you've ever seen a Rule 1100 suck, you'll know that them two bags'll be popping in short order. They do need to be below water line, but are not as difficult to prime as the 3800. They're also under $50, so when they fail you're not hurt so bad. I'm pretty sure the 1100 fills my 700 pound Bump in 5 minutes (haven't used a stopwatch).

Don't forget to look at the Flowrite valves used for livewells. They're cable-actuated valves and look like they won't restrict flow like some others.

Coy, I did something similar but used 3-way valves to empty the sacs. Mine is in a DD I ended up putting the pumps and valves under the observer seat.

Micah, boy that sounds like a phat system. There seems to be some "smart" electonic switches that can do this. Sounds a bit more than what I looking to do but fancy shmancy.

Troy, I planned on getting some speed to prime it but do you think it will have trouble emptying? I might pick up a little primer pump to avoid this problem. Think the 3800 would suck the impeller blades out of a smaller pump? It is possible for a larger pump to suck through a smaller correct?

Derek, the 3800 is only going to cost me $120 and it would fill those sax in no time.

Eustace, where did you snag the large three way valves? Also you mention that you have the valves under the observer seat... you have the pump in the back, pvc all the way up to the observer seat, then pump the water all the way back to the sacks? I am hoping you tell me yes as this would rock the nation. btw your schematic is way WAY nicer than mine - somewhat embarrassed. Any pix of your system?

Coy, it's the factory SSV system, and yeah I doubt I'd try to duplicate it on my own! Sorry if it sounded like I rigged it up myself! I was just saying how it works, for reference. I guess it sounds complicated, but you can fill or empty at any speed which is nice.

I like the 3-way valve idea Eustace has.

Draining your bags will work fine provided you not going out the scupper intake. (with boat moving) I ran small self priming pumps in line that I got from www.northerntool.com and the 3800 just ups their volume to max. I used the self primers just to fill and empty a couple small bags in the bow but they also primed the big pump. I think you can get the 3 way valves from my above link. Home depot usually dosent have them but an industrial hardware store should. Graingers and Mcmastercarr both have them.

So you can still get a theoretical 3800 gph when pulling through say a 500 gph pump. What would the process be. Turn on the primer. Then once primed turn on 3800 and primer off? Or just leave the primer on as well? thank you for the info.

Like Troy said you can get the 3-ways from McMaster, Grainger, or your local plumbing supply. The pumps and the rest of the hardware I got from Grainger. The pumps and the 3-ways are all under the observer seat. I will get some pictures this weekend.

Don’t be embarrassed, Visio made the drawling look good not me!

i went to grainger.com and the least expensive three way valve i could find is like $70!!! what valves did you use?

Coy, try McMaster part no. 4373k42 they sent me two Nibco, and two Apollo vales, not a big deal other then looks but they work the same, ps: about $20 each.

EUSTACE,

What kind of pumps are you using? Are they self-priming and reversible? How much did they cost and where did you get them? Thanks for any info you can provide.

They are Teel self priming marine utility pumps. You can get them at Grainger part no. 1p580 for about $60 each.

I do not see why you couldn’t wire them to run in reverse, but you will loose a lot of the pumps efficiency, this is why I chose to use 3-way valves instead.


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