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Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       02-28-2012, 8:56 AM Reply   
What do folks think of running a pair of Rev10's and a pair of Rev8's on the tower? Is that too much? Would the sound be too harsh since it's all HLCD and not a hybrid system?

Also, what WetSounds amp would you use to run that tower? The config data on their website has not been updated to include the Rev tower speakers. So I'm a little lost.

Thanks!!

Old     (UNvisible)      Join Date: May 2010       02-28-2012, 9:05 AM Reply   
No the sound will not be harsh. The horn on the REV speakers is incredibly smooth. In a perfect world, I'd use a Syn2 to a pair of REV-8's, and a bridged Syn4 to the pair of REV10's.
Old    Earmark Marine (david_e_m)      Join Date: Jul 2008       02-28-2012, 9:27 AM Reply   
You do not have to worry about the smoothness of the REV series. These place the hybrids or mix set-ups in the past.
A REV10 is going to be about 2 dB more efficient than the REV8 because of the larger surface area. 200 watts from a Syn2 driving each REV8 plus 400 watts from a bridged Syn4 driving each REV10 and resulting in an additional 3 dB inequity is collectively a pretty big differential. Like 5 dB! So I would want to know why you are mixing dissimilar sizes and how you expect to be using your tower speakers before making an amplifier recommendation. There are a few valid applications for asymmetrical tower systems. One could be if you are purposely giving up projection in exchange for wider dispersion with a fanned array. Let us know what you have in mind and why.

David
Earmark Marine
Old    Tim White (wetsounds1)      Join Date: Jan 2006       02-28-2012, 9:39 AM Reply   
unvisable nailed it. SYN-2 on the REV 8 and SYN-4 on the REV 10. I agree with David as most of the times I prefer to run all the same as in two pairs of REV 8 or two pairs of REV 10 if you can. Sometimes on certain towers, the REV 10 and REV 8 combo works well as some prefer the look of the different sizes. On the Tige Alpha Z tower for example, the combo fits well with that style of towe so it works well. So sometimes based on look or goals, it works and can work well. On your MB, you have the room for either. So two pairs of REV 8 off a single SYN-2 or two pairs of REV 10 off dual SYN-4's for the ultimate set up. As David pointed out, if you were looking for something like the REV 8 in the center and the REV 10 on the outside kicked at an angle a bit to provide a wider sound field, this would work as well. The REV speakers are designed to provide smooth sound and lots of mid bass. Making the need to run a mix of technologies unnecessary and a thing of the past. With the REV's, we designed the horns to provide smooth output without the typical horn sound. We removed the frequencies that are usually associated in terms like bright or harsh. Shoot us a call at 877-938-7757 and we can find you a dealer close by that you can take a listen to and make the call on what suits your goals the best.

Tim
Wet Sounds
Old    Nathan Fransen (natemx231)      Join Date: Feb 2012       02-28-2012, 10:28 AM Reply   
I went with a JL HD750/1 for my set of REV10's. It's a full range digital amp.
Old    Earmark Marine (david_e_m)      Join Date: Jul 2008       02-28-2012, 2:35 PM Reply   
Here ya go by the numbers...
Starting with one pair of REV8s driven by a Syn2 and establishing a 115 dB reference point at a given distance.
One pr REV8 w/ one Syn2.............................................. ................................115 dB.
Two pr REV8 w/ one Syn2.............................................. ................................118 dB.
One pr REV10 w/ one bridged Syn4.............................................. .................120 dB.
One pr REV10 w/ one bridged Syn4 plus one pr REV8 w/ one Syn2.............121 dB.
Two pr REV10 w/ two bridged Syn4.............................................. .................123 dB.

David
Earmark Marine
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       02-28-2012, 4:26 PM Reply   
Thanks for the input everybody. I'm a novice. David's posts are bit over my head. All I know is what looks good and sounds good to my ear. Also, it should work (i.e. not shut off when the volume goes up).

My current Wetsounds setup is a Syn6 running my tower (Pair of MB-8's + Pair of Pro60's) and my cabin (Six XS-650's). I didn't spec this system. MB and WS did, and I haven't been real happy with it (frequent shutoff when the volume gets up to where you can actually hear it at 65 feet), so I'm looking to go in a new direction. Based on the great reviews I've read about the Rev series, I ignoranly thought a pair of 10's and 8's would sound and look sweet. So yes, my lame motivation to mix was 10's with 8's is looks. I may not like the sound, but the staggered look of my MB-8's and Pro60's is pretty cool.

I'm a little bummed to hear that I need TWO amps to run the Rev10's and Rev8's. I guess I was hoping a single Syn4 or Syn6 was up to the task. I think what I'm hearing is that WS doesn't make an amp that runs this tower by itself. Correct?

Here's a pic of my setup...

Old    Bruizza (bruizza)      Join Date: May 2009       02-28-2012, 4:36 PM Reply   
Maybe use the syn 6 to run the in boats and the rev 8s. 105x4 for the in boats with your rear two,pairs run in parallel and then 305x2 for the rev 8s. Then get a syn 4 to run the rev 10s. Maybe losing 2 tower speakers off the syn 6 will help with the over heating. We run a syn 6 to our 6 in boats and then use it to run the sub. So same basic configuration only the sub gets 600x1. We haven't had any issues with over heating with this set up.
Old    Earmark Marine (david_e_m)      Join Date: Jul 2008       02-28-2012, 5:17 PM Reply   
ifxe,
Yeah, I don't get the thermal issue either with those amplifiers. There is something else going on that is contributing. But if you are running six in-boat coaxials and four tower speakers off the single amplifier that definitely raises a few questions.
Mixing speakers is not at all about the sound quality in this case. Rather its purely about the output. Look, those speakers will sound great in any mix and are loud speakers any way you slice it. The numeric example I showed was simply about cost-effectiveness (just a maximum output per investment consideration).
You can run a pair of REV8s and a pair of REV10s off a single Syn6 chassis. A Syn4 can run a sub and four in-boat speakers or up to eight in-boat speakers without a subwoofer. You might want to add but you do not need an overhaul.

David
Earmark Marine
Old    Harold Hemming (h20king)      Join Date: Dec 2009       02-28-2012, 5:47 PM Reply   
If you just want to run one amp to the tower you could wait for the new Rev 410's to come out and power a set with a bridged syn4.With the remaining syn6 you could power the inboat speakers and you would be set
Old    John Bauer (jonyb)      Join Date: Nov 2008       02-28-2012, 8:11 PM Reply   
Stick with either all 10's, or all 8's. It makes things a lot simpler.
Old    DBC (ixfe)      Join Date: Aug 2008       02-29-2012, 12:22 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by david_e_m View Post
But if you are running six in-boat coaxials and four tower speakers off the single amplifier that definitely raises a few questions.
Like I said, I didn't spec the system. It was a factory installed upgrade designed by WS for MB.
Old    Chris (atlmobiuslsv)      Join Date: Feb 2008       02-29-2012, 5:27 AM Reply   
you could run an arc ks 600.2 i have done two sets of rev 10;s ad well ase two sets of rev 8's with this setup

here are the specs

Specs:

2 Channels @ 4 Ohms- 400 Watts
2 Channels @ 2 ohms 600 Watts
1 Channel @ 4 Ohms (Bridged) 1200 Watts
1 Channel @ 2 Ohms (Bridged) Not Recommended
Frequency Response 5Hz - 50kHz
Crossover Range 55Hz - 5.5kHz Variable
Bass Boost +15dB @ 45Hz
S/N Ratio 112dB
Input Sensitivity (Low) 200ma - 3.5V
Max Current Draw 130A @ 1300 Watts 1% THD
Fuse 4 x 30 Amp
Idle Current 2.5 Amp
Dimensions 15.5"(L) x 8.0"(W) x 2.375"(H)
Old    Earmark Marine (david_e_m)      Join Date: Jul 2008       02-29-2012, 6:32 AM Reply   
I should probably better explain the reason for the numeric example I posted above.
If you have a base pair of REV10s driven by a Syn4 then you have invested another $1550 to add a pair of REV8s and a Syn2 in order to get another 1 dB of output. Contrastly, if you instead invest another $200 ($1750 total) to add another set of REV10s with a Syn4 you get a 3 dB increase in output.
Now, you don't have to even know what a decibel represents. Just look at the ratio.
$1550 investment.........add 1 dB.
$1750 investment.........add 3 dB.

Sometimes its not all about maximizing the output as there may be other objectives which could be
* Cosmetic. Especially on a tower with a pronounced arch.
* Hang height. Provide a pass-thru down the middle.
* Fanning out the speakers for wider dispersion and so all four speakers don't just beam down the center.
* Also, fanning out an array is often used in pro sound reinforcement to diminish the impact of comb filter effects that creat selective off-axis cancellations.

I think you should at least have all the information to make the right selection.

David
Earmark Marine
Old    Chase Tillett (tn_rider)      Join Date: Dec 2009       02-29-2012, 8:29 AM Reply   
Im familiar with db's but what I'm asking is 2db's noticeable to the ear?
Old    Earmark Marine (david_e_m)      Join Date: Jul 2008       02-29-2012, 8:57 AM Reply   
A 1 dB difference is considered just audible. A 3 dB increase is considered to be a significant increment. A 10 dB increase is perceived as double the volume.

David
Earmark Marine
Old    Chase Tillett (tn_rider)      Join Date: Dec 2009       02-29-2012, 9:23 AM Reply   
Thanks David!!
Old    Earmark Marine (david_e_m)      Join Date: Jul 2008       02-29-2012, 9:44 AM Reply   
Maybe to add a bit more perspective to a 2 dB difference with a couple of other examples.
A 2 dB difference is the average output increase you see when going from an 8 to 10" sub, 10 to 12" sub or 12 to 15" sub. For anyone who has made that change they can identify 2 dB.
A 3 dB diiference would be from doubling the speaker surface area with the same excursion or from doubling the speaker excursion which requires doubling the amplifier power. So consider a 2 db difference the equivalent as going from 1000 watts to nearly 1700 watts on the same speaker system. You might notice that.

David
Earmark Marine
Old    Jason (corerider)      Join Date: May 2008       02-29-2012, 5:40 PM Reply   
David, just out of curiosity, what would the dB look like with a pair of 485's on a Syn4? Just wanted to compare it retailing at $2400 to the Rev10's and Syn4 at $1750.
Old    Earmark Marine (david_e_m)      Join Date: Jul 2008       02-29-2012, 6:07 PM Reply   
Jason,
The above illustrations are primarily intended to point out the efficiency in the way identical speakers sum their output versus the way dissimilar speakers combine.
Based on the surface area of four 8" midbass drivers in a pair of Pro485s against the two 10" midbass drivers in a pair of REV10s, if all things were equal then the Pro485s would have 20 percent more surface area. That alone is not enough to make a significant difference in output. But these two speakers are so different in so many ways I find it hard to make direct comparisons.
The Pro485 has more pod displacement and a much larger tweeter diaphragm with a larger component horn. They do sound different. They are both excellent. We have listeners that prefer one while a friend or spouse standing right beside them prefers the other.
Now the REV410 will make it really interesting.

David
Earmark Marine Audio
Old    Jason (corerider)      Join Date: May 2008       03-01-2012, 4:26 AM Reply   
Yes, I am one of the many patiently waiting for the Rev410's to be released. I have a very lonely Syn4 ready and waiting to drive them!
Old    Shawndoggy (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       03-01-2012, 5:40 AM Reply   
just spitballing and hypothesizing here, but the power requirements for the rev10s is a lot more than the pro80s. A bridged syn 4 is the recommended wetsounds setup for a pair of rev10s. That's two 10" drivers with 350w+ each. Is there going to be a similar increase in wattage demanded for the Rev410, with two 10" drivers per pod?
Old    jkw (lakesurfer)      Join Date: Jul 2009       03-01-2012, 5:45 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
just spitballing and hypothesizing here, but the power requirements for the rev10s is a lot more than the pro80s. A bridged syn 4 is the recommended wetsounds setup for a pair of rev10s. That's two 10" drivers with 350w+ each. Is there going to be a similar increase in wattage demanded for the Rev410, with two 10" drivers per pod?
Good question. I just assumed that a single Rev410 would need 600-800 watts based on what it takes to drive one set of Rev 10s.
Old    Earmark Marine (david_e_m)      Join Date: Jul 2008       03-01-2012, 6:31 AM Reply   
I don't think you necessarily 'need' more power to the REV10 than you did to the previous Pro80. It's just that there is more potential with more power to the REV10.
You will want similar power to one REV410 as with a pair of REV10s. The REV410 should have two 8-ohm midbass drivers in parallel for a 4-ohm load same as the Pro485. So if you are running a bridged Syn4 to a pair of REV10s then you can run a bridged Syn2 to a single REV410 in the middle. Or if you are running a pair of REV410s either a bridged Syn4 or two bridged Syn2s are within the power range.

David
Earmark Marine
Old    Jason (corerider)      Join Date: May 2008       03-01-2012, 7:09 AM Reply   
^^^^ Something I was kind of wooried about when buying my Syn4, but I'm still not completely sure whether I will go Rev410 or Pro485. Just depends on how much longer the wait is I guess. Either way it will be way louder and sound much better than my current tower speaker setup.

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