Need Help... How does the Judges score a pass?

Need some advice fellow wakeboarders... My daughters compete in tournaments and they do pretty good. My question is how does the judges score a pass? In other words are their certain points for a certain trick or do you get more points for more air or for certain grabs? I watch the competition and sometimes I can't see why some riders get more points than the other rider? Any advice would be appreciated... Thanks...

#1 best advice I could give anyone - Do not take the competition too seriously!!!!.

Ride to have fun. Compete to have fun. Remeber that judging is subjective. Do not care how you place, only care about how you feel your ride was.

That being said, we judge our comps:

33% - Execution: how well you perform each trick that you do (style/form, buttchecks? rolling down the windows? Grabs & late rotations!)

33% - Intensity: How big you take the tricks, or how technical the trick is (big method front to fakie in the flats, crow mobes, etc.)

33% - Composition: How well your run flows. mixing all different types of tricks (frontside and backside spins (both on and off axis), flips, raleys, toeside/heelside tricks, etc.)


Grabs would fall under Execution. Big air falls under Intensity.


Hope this helps (don't forget about the #1 advice)



(Message edited by socalwakepunk on October 11, 2004)

Jeff,
Whats the last 1%?

Haircut !

the last 1%.............moxie

LOL

(Message edited by skibum69 on October 11, 2004)

(Message edited by skibum69 on October 11, 2004)

I think a good example was the x-games. A lot of people thing Parks should have won because of his signature move. But I really thought Phillip landed everything smoothly and threw more technical wake tricks like a switch melan crow 5 and whirly 5. At a young/beginner level, the judges really look for how smooth and in control the rider is. They look to see if the trick was hucked, or if the rider waited and popped as you are supposed to. A lot of people can throw backrolls, tantrums, and 3's, but if they are hucked then they will not score as much as if they are done smoothly.

Plus Phillip has better hair so he got that extra 1%

I dont know, philip didnt have any hair, he had a crew cut.
I think Parks got the 1% for the hair, the judges just didnt like him because he rode for hyperlite.

MY bad, from above.. thats 1% extra for HAIRCUT...that must be Phillip's advantage.

Mike,
What type of format do they use in the comps that your daughters compete in? That makes a difference as well. Some people on the local/grassroots levels are still using the old freestyle format where the riders submit an attack sheet of their tricks which have an asigned point value. They collect points based on the tricks completed. This makes the judges job a bit easier because there's only a small portion of the scoring that's subjective.
Most, nowadays, are using the freeride format which is SUPER subjective, meaning total judges impression. And judges impressions can differ from one to the next. Some like a certain style of riding while others may favor another.
Also, your impression from shore is totally different from the boat. There have been many times when I've had to talk to parents & riders because they thought they should have placed differently. The best seat for a judge is from the boat. You can tell the smallest differences in how big or intense the rider went, if they made their grabs or not, and if they landed the trick outside the second wake or not. These are just some of the things we look at, which can effect the outcome of the scores.
Also remember that the higher the division they ride, the tougher the scoring gets because the judges are less likely to cut them slack. Judges expect the riders to perform at a certain level for each division they are at.
For example, this past summer, I had a rider competing in the outlaw division BUT through a HS 180, TS 180(both w/ no grabs or poking/boning out), a HS backroll, 2x HS raley, and a 1 wake HS Krypt off the double up. Now, he thought he should have been in the top 3 but when you relook at this run, this is the break down. The HS & TS 180's don't get scored because he's in the OUTLAW division. If you're going to throw 180s in the outlaw division, add something like a solid grab or bone it out or something to make it stylish. Otherwise don't expect that to be counted as a trick because that's for Beginner/Intermediate riders. His HS backroll was big & floaty so I gave him good scores for that, his first HS raley was big and clean so I gave him good scores for that. Now this is where he went wrong. Second HS raley - REPEATED TRICK! One of the worst things a rider can do. Now, for the lower divisions, many times we will allow them to repeat tricks to a certain point because they aren't at a level where they will have a lot of tricks in their bag. But if you're in outlaw, no repeated tricks. Big score deduction for him on that and then he caps off his run with a 1 wake Krypt which doesn't even get scored because it was 1 wake. Make sure you take your tricks wake 2 wake.
So after I explained to him that I really only had 2 tricks to score him on (HS Backroll & Raley), I could see it in his eyes that he knew he didn't ride as well as he had thought he did but he wouldn't come out and admit it. Which is fine, but I hope he went home and thought about it a little so he could build his comp run better and improve his performance the next time around.
Sorry this got long but I'm pretty passionate when it comes to judging. I take great pride in being fair and doing the best job I possibly can.
Yes, competitions shouldn't matter but the fact is when you're paying an entry fee and wait hours to get your pull behind the boat, you expect to be judged fairly no matter what the level of competition you're in. That's only my opinion but I've been both a competitor and a judge, and all I ever expected of the judges when I competed was that they were attentive and scored fairly.

Best of luck in your future competitions!

Ryan, I have a question...he was in the outlaw division and only threw raleys and backroll??? I can do that. I would at least expect a hs 3 or ts 5 from an outlaw rider. Also, he didn't do any ts stuff except for the ts 180??? What kind of tournament was this?

Ryan- very well put............
INT league has rules and point values posted at www.intleague.com

Leo,
It was a Hyperlite tour contest and we used a 2 pass freeride format. Your point is valid as well. I was going to talk about that but felt my post was getting too long. But since you asked, I wanted to tell him that he really should have been in the advanced division instead of outlaw, but I thought that would be rude. If he did have outlaw level tricks, he certainly didn't show it. I had also explained to him that his composition score was knocked down tremendously for no TS tricks.

Well understood Ryan. In our local competitions we have 3 catagories- intermediate= 1 invert, advanced= 4 inverts, outlaw= 4+ inverts. If I were to enter the competition, I would have entered at intermediate because I am not consistent on all of my inverts. But for an outlaw rider, he should have at least pulled some toeside stuff. At our local competitions, it is impossible to win in any category if you cant do TS because each pass allows for 4 tricks. If you waste your time by doing consistent HS tricks, you can only fit 2-3 hs tricks in a pass.

(Message edited by malibuboarder75 on October 13, 2004)