mercruiser sucks

does anybody know why merc stuff is so freaking expensive. 150 for a 14 inch fuel line. 300 for a fuel pump? 1300 for a wire harness. why would any boat company use merc its so expensive. F merc

Welcome to the wonderful world of MARINE products.

Have you checked any other companies? I would suspect it to be about the same.

not to mention that you have to find a mercruiser dealer wich is no the hardest thing in the world but they make everything mecruiser specific so you have to get it from them. i work on all brands of ski boats and i have to say i agree with you on this one. when i decided to get a wakeboat i chose to get a tige and then i had to search and find one that did NOT have a mercruiser. my budget was in the 03/04 range and you could get a merc. or marine power and i think the M>P is better by far so i searched long and hard till i found one i liked with the marine power. i found lots of boats i liked in my price range but the merc was a deal killer for me. i finally found what i was looking for and have been very happy ever since.

(Message edited by kko13 on February 27, 2008)

There are alternatives. I made my own fuel line by buying a metal fuel line with fittings. I bought a tubing bender and flare tool at the local discount tool house, bent and flared my own and painted it for $50. I also replaced my fuel pump but got a rebuilt through the local marine dealer for $100, works fine.

there are other companies that you can use such as quick silver. Merc also has a full catalog of remaufactured products. i'm not sure if fuel pumps and things like that would be in there. we've always used Mercs in our boats but now put Marine Power in our tiges. if i had a I/O i wouldn't have anything other than a Merc.

Mercruiser is a good engine, unfortunatly the Mercruiser inboard division has the worst warranty out there... Go with Indmar

other than being a little more pricey, are they still a decent engine? Any major issues with them or the direct drive trannys?

A couple of things No body is perfect
http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3183/551049.html?1204173056

As of January 1 All Certified Mercury Companies Like Centurion will be giving a Standard 3 year warranty!

ERIC!!! I agree!!! Because warranty means everything!!!

I have never used warranty and my boat is on the lake everyday.

But I would feel much better if my boat had lifetime warranty and was in the shop for its entire lifetime...

Makes me feel warm and fuzzy!

my old boat had a pcm. i got parts from skidim they were reasonable.

Quicksilver is the name brand of Mercury Marine stuff (Get it? Mercury is "quick silver."). Sierra is the off brand. I've always liked Mercruiser because of how easy it is to find free pdf factory service manuals for them and how easy it is to find people that work on them (around here at least). I also like that I can head to my local NAPA and order Sierra parts for my engine. Last time I priced a Merc fuel pump it was "only" about $120 (yikes). Is your dealer telling you it's $300? Have you asked around to see if that's right?

that was ebay. best price i could find on the net.

Assuming it's a mechanical for your Supra here's four different options for $90.

http://www.marine-pumps.com/fuepchev.htm

have you tried gettin volvo parts lately? we wont even work on them any more cause the cost of parts dosent make the boat worth fixin most of the time. they spend more on parts then the boat is worth.

that was as of a couple of years ago. they may be better now but they used to be horrible on parts prices. but no one is real cheap anymore.

whatever you guys do don't ever put car parts on your boat. if you take it into a boat dealer to have work done and they see car parts they have to stop working on the boat disconnect the battery and and tell you to come pick it up.

^^^^^^^^^^^WHY^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

HAHAHA, good thing my new starter is located out of direct view.

Wow. An automotive starter is probably the 2nd worst automotive part (after an auto carbeurator) you could put on a boat. Automotive starters have a tendency to spark and that spark could ignite something in the closed-in wooden box of a boat cowl most of us have. Do you light matches and drop them into the gas tank, too?

Robert and Craig lets just say BIGGGGGGGG BOOOOOOOOOM. i wouldn't ever put myself 50 feet from a boat with automotive parts. if your interested in not dying and killing everyone on your boat you will change out your automotive parts to marine parts.part on the motor of a boat that could have a chance of sparking are sealed so the spark can't get out and gas fumes can't get in. automotive parts aren't sealed because there isn't the presents of gas fumes at the motor.

I guess you do learn something new every day! Thankx

Same that was on the boat when I got it used and now it is rebuilt. Maybe I won't blow up but if you see a MC in flames going down the lake come and introduce yourself.

There are 2 fuels pumps one in the cool fuel system the Mercury price for that pump is 313.00 and a booster pump is 223.95

i have just one its in the cool fuel. where is the other one?

You can use an auto fuel line if you find one to fit.

The only auto parts that should be avoided are electrical ones near or on the lower part of the engine (startes, alternators, etc). Ignition parts and wiring is all OK. Fuel is heavier than air so it stays lower in the bilge. Also you should run your fan if you sit still for very long. Most boats have a vent system that pulls fresh air in while underway.


It is VERY hard for a spark to ignite gas fumes. Try it if you don't believe it. Also fumes do get into the marine sealed screens on marine parts. The flames choke out b/c no oxygen can get in. So if you have a spark that would normally cause a fire from an auto part, it would just burn out behind the screen and fry the equipment on the similar marine part. Have you or any one you know ever had a marine part fail b/c of fire. It is very rare, but it only takes once. Usually the screen is just a measure anyway. If you have a gas leak so bad that you get a bilge you should have other indications that something is wrong.

Most of the older SN around here are all running some type of aftermarket carbs on them. I am willing to bet that they didn't spring for the marine version either.

Between the two 4" ventilation hoses that run through my bilge and the blower I'am not to worried about a big boom.

yea i took my carb off my indmare and didnt have any luck getting it rebuilt where it worked correctly so i went to auto zone and picked up another holley 4brl ..if you put them side by side i see no difference then the one that was on there ,they both had adjustable floats and hooked up exactly the same.It been running great for a year now,no issue and my blower almost never runs.

so im not sure why you cant use a auto carb as i cant see the difference ..i mean it has the flame arrestor on top and the plastic shiled over that so am i missing something?

There are small differences in carbs. One is the flame arrestor, the other biggie is the J tubes. Be sure to swap your tubes over if you use an auto carb, and cap it with a flame arrestor. Other than that, and a few small changes, its about the same.

i've never heard about not using the auto carbs. i can't see why you couldn't.

Because they are designed to make it virtually impossible for the carb to flood and overflow hence the J tube. It's actually a USCG requirement for marine engines with enclosed engines (engine box) as are flame arrestors, no rubber fuel lines / metal only, automotive starters and alternators. All these things can be be used on exposed marine engines without issue but if caught on an enclosed engine / inboard the CG will issue a citation.

(Message edited by razzman on February 28, 2008)

differnce in and what is a Jtube?i assume its the little over flow looking tubes at the top of the carb?? what do the wrong ones look like and what do the right ones look like..any pics?

Raman is Right on. Besides electrical Automotive
Parts are O.k. to use

In regards to Automotive Starters in boats, not only are they not safe but if the Coast Guard and or your local DNR were to perform an inspection and find it. They would make you take your boat of the water ...

so how does this all make mercruiser a bad engine lol

Hey bro I just did the fuel line and fuel pump, myself.........Yes it is a mercruiser....
$120 for pump, and $5 for the line. (took two hours to put on).
Maybe you should find a new dealer?!
Dont hate on Merc because your dealer ripped you off. Bought from skidim.

I do all my own work but the parts are way marked up because only merc crap will fit. Yes skidim is the best but they have very little merc stuff. I wish i had pcm!

Here is a holly marine carburetor with the j tubes on the fuel bowl over flows.

This is a holly street carburetor same body, choke, fuel bowls, when you look at them they look almost identical. Unless you know what to look for they look the same.

The major difference is the overflow on the fuel bowls. If a float gets stuck the needle or seat go bad, or the float gets a hole in it. The carburetor would stop metering the amount of fuel that it lets in and the fuel bowls would fill to the top and over flow out the tubes on the top. On a street application the extra fuel would pour into the bottom pan of the air cleaner. Then the fuel would then vaporize and be burnt or dissipate in the engine compartment. With a flame arrestor the fuel would pour onto the intake manifold and in the engine compartment. The j tube causes the extra fuel to go into the engine and be burnt. The difference is big BOOM. Also if your engine is equipped with a mechanical fuel pump they are different than automotive ones. A marine fuel pump will have a clear hose in order to be able to clearly see is your diaphragm has ruptured. The distributor and cap are different. A marine distributor has no vent on the top. You know the little black button on the top of the cap. The distributor is also totally sealed. You can almost bet that if it has to do with electrical or fuel in a boat, then they are not the same as automotive parts.

"no rubber fuel lines / metal only" This is the one Im curious about since a merc mechanic installed a merc mod with the additional fuel pump due to my engine vapor locking in the winter. It was installed with rubber/flex line not metal??

When i changed my carb last year i went to the local marine dealer and asked if he had a fuel line to match the new carb (different routing) and he didn't. I stated i'd just use brass nipples and rubber and he told me USCG rules state enclosed motors must have a metal fixed fuel line. I didn't buy that and checked, sure enough it was true. Just another USCG safety measure i guess. Can't even use braided stainless with an fittings!

ok so i looked at carb old and new and your right new one has straight tube and old one has jtube..i tried to take old Jtube out of old carb but no dice it broke..so is there a way to put a jtube on the new carb ??

interesting read

http://www.cpperformance.com/products/Fuel_Systems/carb-selection.htm

Its all costly. You know what boat stands for Bring Out Another Thousand

the suction side of the fuel system is rubber and the pressure side from pump to carb will need to be metal. and if you dont use a marine carb your asking for trouble. no worries though boats burn fast it will be over b4 you know it not to worry. and if you think your insurance adjuster wont care what type of carb you are running think again. 1 of the biggest reasons they reject claims. IMPROPER MARINE APPROVED PART CAUSED LOST!!=YOU R F**KED sorry to be harsh but i have seen it happen to many times. please learn from others mistakes and get the right parts on your boats you will be glad you did. dont let a $100 difference between a marine carb and a regular carb cost you your 10k 20k investment because your insurance company will be looking for these kinds of things when they come out.

(Message edited by kko13 on February 29, 2008)

Bill only one way that is you have to change the carb body (i.e. the whole middle of the carb). You can order it from holly if you have the number that is stamped on the old one. Then you have to take the carb to a performance shop and have them change every, I mean every thing, over to the new body. Fortunately the butterfly valves stay with the base plate so you dont have to deal with removing them pain in the ass. If it was mine I would sell the new and the old one on eBay or something and buy a marine carb. People will buy the old carb for parts will help to offset the price of new one.

Does anybody know about NAPA marine?

NAPA AND SIERRA ARE THE SAME, EVEN SAME PART NUMBERS PRICES RARELY BETTER THAN OEM IN LOTS OF CASES.

I haven't found parts to be that much more than Indmar / PCM. Check out skidim.com and ebasicpower.com.

A Merc would be my third choice behind Indmar and PCM, but they don't build a bad motor. They did have a pretty common problem with vapor lock for a while, which is the reason for the booster fuel pump. The thing I dislike most Mercs is the stupid, stupid impeller pump design. I have no idea why they made such a common maintenance item so difficult to change out. Even worse are the old Alpha outdrives - the impeller is inside the outdrive, and you have to drain the oil and take the lower unit off to change it out.

Automotive starters & alternators are a huge no-no. The differences to the marine versions are very minor, and would be easy to overlook, but are critical for safety. I wasn't aware of the differences in carbs, but it appears there is a trend.

I would suggest finding a good starter/alternator shop to rebuild your parts instead of buying new. Rebuilds are almost always possible, and usually <$100.

whats this vapor lock people keep talking about

Trace, they have addressed the Impeller issue with an updated conversion kit.

Also the later models have addressed the Vapor Lock issue. But the most common failure is the booster pump and a small fuel filter that most people don't about. It is located right in front of the tank on black scorpion motors.


Id take a Merc any day due to serviceability over Pcm or Indmar. I could be in Mexico or Japan and get parts. Hands down Merc has more service departments over PCM and Indmar combined.

Next time you look under the hood of a offshore race boat 9 times out of 10 its a merc motor.

Donaldrhill- i'm not totally sure about the vapor lock but from what i remember from people talking about it is when the fuel gets real hot and vaporizes before it gets to cylinders. the fuel then can't be ignited to fire which then causes the motor to stall out. i'm not completly sure that, that is totally what goes on with it but its something like that.

what is the fix for that

With the introduction of fuel injection, i.e. pressurized fuel, we cured 99% of vapor lock issues. When fuel is pressurized, it raises the boiling point, thus preventing it from turning to a gas.

Vapor lock usually happens during a "heat soak" when the engine is off and there is no air circulation to keep under hood temps down. When we restart the engine, we see the effect. Fuel pumps can not pressurize the boiled fuel vapor in the fuel line, so it can't deliver the needed fuel to the engine.

The 3 biggest causes of vapor lock are: low fuel pressure, leaking fuel system bleeding off pressure when engine is off, or extremely high under hood temps (faulty thermostat, raw water pump, circulation pump, block restriction, etc). All these will cause the fuel to boil.

Most newer boat engines have a fuel cooler to help prevent this, but can still happen with a faulty fuel pump system, or a cooler with low circulation.

On my first boat, the previous owner put a oversized carb on. I had to replace it. I found a shop that converted street carbs into marine approved carbs (ie they added the j tubes and other small parts). After installtion, I took it and ran it. I had to be pulled back into the marina because the carberatuer was spewing fuel into the hull because the j tubes were installed wrong and were drilled out too far. Lesson learned. When the carb is functioning,the street versus marine is minor. When a float sticks, its the difference between keeping the fuel in the carb or having it dump in your hull (in the street apps, they overflow onto the road)

So now i put the 200$ fuel pump on yesterday only to find out 7 of the 8 fuel injecters no longer work. Well they cost 100$ a pop

why did you put a fuel pressure guage on the shradder valve before replacing the pump?

I think Nate meant to say, "Why didn't you...?" But anyways...

The vapor lock problems I've experienced most were actually on EFI motors, but of course always after sitting warm for a while. In fact, I've found the older carbed Merc 260 to be VERY reliable motors.

The newer 2-piece impeller pump design is an improvement, but still has nothing on the simple Johnson pump on Indmars. Impeller changes mean 4 screws to pull off the cover vs. removing the entire (plastic) pump assembly from the motor and completely disassembling it.

i found a carb and intake used for 300 i think i will switch over, i may lose a few ponies but will save a BOAT load of money

Donald i would verify before doing so but i believe you'd have to change the ignition/ecm as well which in long term would be way more money. Check those injectors and see if the automotive units can be used as they are probably cheaper.

Don,

be aware, used carbs dont sit very good. They will dry out and leak, stick, etc. It will probably need to be rebuilt. A good kit will be $75.

My gut tells me that that carb manifold will not line up with those heads?

With a little detective work, you may find the correct injectors at an auto parts house like Advance, Pep Boys, etc. They are either Bosch, Delco, or Multec injectors.

Hate to here this, good luck

Forgot, you will need a new low pressure pump. Carb needs 5-8psi, EFI runs around 35psi

Nate:
I'd take a Marine Power over any of the others in that list. Next time you look at a work boat (ie: shrimp, commercial fishing, etc) in the GOM it is likely MP if it's a gasser. Penalty for failure out there is more severe than an offshore racer.


Don,
The cost, time, reliability, and headaches to go carb from EFI are not worth it. Find some new injectors.

NFWIH I'd ever switch an EFI boat back to carb, especially for a $400 difference in parts.

You'll waste way more than that in time and parts just trying to get the conversion to work. If you're successful, you'll have an oddball motor that is even harder to work on and find parts for.

Even if you did get it working
the resale value on the boat will be GREATLY REDUCED

Have you tried cleaning the injectors????

sometimes the get some sort of corrotion and stop working correctly.

They have sat for almost five years. i am going to make the carb swap. a universal fuel pump from pep boys is 30$. the boat hasn't been started in 5 years if i waste 800$ on injecters only to find out the ecu is bad thats 1400 more. or what if the engine block has problems. it uses a distributor cap so all i would have to do is unplug all fuel electric work out the gas line and im done. i will keep all efi stuff then pull the boat into the garage next winter and sort it all out. oh yeah the carb and manifold are from a 2000 merc and i am buying it from a tech at my local malibu dealer. side note i don't own a bu but they are really good to me.

Resale on carb vs EFI isn't that much. Maybe a few hundred.

Go ahead and make the switch. Sounds like a good scenario to me. I would look for a Holley 600CFM 4bbl model 4150 and an edelbrock performer RPM intake used from somewhere.

(Message edited by olSkoolTige on March 04, 2008)

by the book no but I would never buy a carb engine much less one that has been "switched"
but maybe that is jsut me.....after all it is your boat

Working on a carb engine is very easy for a shade tree mechanic. You can change all aspects of fuel delivery with a screwdriver and a box of jets. I would take carb over EFI on anything outside of the last couple of years.

GOOD

Actually, I would say that EFI is better for the shadetree mechanic because it is much more reliable, plus the fact that carb tuning is somewhat of a black art even for those of us that can do it.

Carbs by nature are also not good for things that lay up. The fuel in the bowl and circuits is exposed to the atmosphere, and it deteriorates much faster than when pressurized in the fuel rails. There is nothing more satisfying than your motor cranking up immediately and idling down perfectly after sitting for 4-5 mos. I've never had that happen with a carb on anything.

Sitting for 5 yrs, it is undoubtedly fuel delivery. How did you diagnose the injectors to know that one is in fact okay? I would plan on cleaning out the tank and lines too. No reason for the ECM to go down due to age. Block condition can be checked with compression and water pressure tests. You also just bought a shiny new fuel pump that won't work on the carb.

That honestly doesn't sound like a bad swap to the carb, though. I would be tempted myself, and sell or rebuild the EFI stuff.

Im going to keep the efi stuff for a winter project the carb will get me on the lake while i check for other problems,tranny,shaft,prop,hull, random other stuff. i am keeping the boat for a few years so resale is not that big of a deal. and when im done i can sell the carb and intake to someone else.

"a universal fuel pump from pep boys is 30$"

Does that include a fire extinguisher and Life Insurance with that non-ignition protected, non-marine fuel pump

Its a FUEL pump do you think they make pumps that handle gas that ignite easily and shoot sparks every where it would blow up in a car to. it also says on the box for marine applications. gas is gas if its in your boat or your car.

As long as it has the fuel return on the top it should be good, without the return your asking for trouble. Although i've yet to see a proper $30 fuel pump made for marine applications and somehow doubt Pep Boys has one. universal doesn't sound like it

Yeah, most "fuel pumps" i,ve worked on were for gas.

Just kiddin with ya there don, since half this thread was about marine rated V's automotive app.

No doubt in my mind you will get this boat running, I would just take a diff route. Spend the extra $$$ and in 20 minutes, have all new injectors in. Your way is not wrong, just different then mine, that's all.

well i was told by the malibu tech that any auto fuel pump for a carb of this size would be fine. but yes they have a universal one at pep boys go check it out it is behind the counter just ask.

Donald i guess i worded that incorrectly, i was stating that they probably do but i doubted it's correct for your application. A marine carbed engine has to have an inlet on the pump for the carb to overflow into or another method. Without a overflow/vapor return the fumes will build up hence the marine rated neccessity. Wasn't trying to be a smarta$$ just trying to save ya from cookin' your boat.

Seriously if the Malibu tech said that then that would be the last time i asked his advice but it's your call.

I will say this again, the injectors might be rusted or dirty, why don't you try spraying some cleaner product in them before going through all this mess????

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quote:

well i was told by the malibu tech that any auto fuel pump for a carb of this size would be fine.

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That guy should be fired. We're not just overly critical internet geeks here... You would be risking your life as well as the lives of your passengers by using certain non-marine components.

Most critical are the starter, alternator, and anything in the fuel system. Most other parts are okay to swap, and I do it myself regularly.