Correct Craft wins JD Powers Award again...

The S shaped tower is the one from China. The moment the tower hits the U.S. it goes directly to Ramlin to be looked over and fixed.

"The moment the tower hits the U.S. it goes directly to Ramlin to be looked over and fixed."

See that's how Nautique operates, if there is a problem then they fix it before it goes out to the dealers, unlike some companies that design a bad tower, let it go to dealers and then send out Brackets/Braces TO CUSTOMERS to fix a problem that never should have made it out to the dealerships in the first place, not to mention they look like crap.

I have to give JD Powers props, they did respond back to my request. The difference in number of votes between MC & CC was two votes. Congrats to Nautique on the award. The big winner appears to be PCM, keep in mind Tige's did not have PCM motors through this testing period.


This is part of an e-mail I sent to JD Powers.

"Thank you for the quick response but I question the results without data available. Your site states Wakeboard / Waterski

("The 2009 Boat Competitive Information Study is based on responses from 9,790 owners who registered a new boat between June 2007 and May 2008. The study was fielded from September to November 2008". )

This does not tell me how many responses Mastercraft had relative to Correct Craft. Common sense tells you the most disgruntled customers will be the ones to respond in larger numbers vs very happy customers. Consumers want to know the ratios and by only making them available for the marine market segment makes me believe you are hiding something from consumers or you just had not thought of that aspect.

I encourage you to publish these numbers for credibility on JD Powers part.")

Dealers are the key for the builders. The dealers hide a lot of problems by doing their job and going through the boat before the consumer takes delivery.

I do not understand why these ratios and builder numbers are so private but IMO it's just another award because someone said so.

Mark

PCM definitely makes the best motor. I don't think anyone could argue that. They are so smooth and reliable.

Not to say the others don't make a great motor but PCM is just a notch ahead of the rest.

FWIW, My local mechanic is a one man shop and isn't biased towards any brand because he works on them all. I don't even think he owns a boat any more. He has worked on inboards for nearly 30 years and he sees the fewest issues with PCM engines.

By Dan DuLong (wakeitnofakeit) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 7:00 pm:

Epic wasn't at the NE boat show either. I love epic and have been approached to be a dealer for them in this area.


I sure hope Epic never approaches you again to be a dealer for them.
You will do the brand more harm than good just like you have for wakecraft. I dont even put a capital W at the start of wakecraft anymore because of you. hahaha

I second that lowend.


"I dont even put a capital W at the start of wakecraft anymore because of you. hahaha"

LMAO.

Dan's list:
1 Wakecraft
2 Mastercraft
3 Malibu
4 CC
5 axis
6 Seadoo

Nuff said - he didn't even put Epic on his list.

I love you guys. I would have thought anyone with an IQ over 80 would have got the joke. The point was to prove how stupid these lists are. JD powers, wakeboarding magazine, and wakeworld all review and survey boats that pay them. It costs $30,000 for JD to include you and if you win, you have to pay them another $100,000 to use them in your advertisements. I will tell you what send me fifty dollars and I will put whatever boat you want first. What I think should happen is that "we" meaning boat owners, riders, dealers, and manufacturers should all donate money to a test club. This club should be made up of two owners of each brand that wishes to be reviewed. Then they meet up with a dealer and or rep at a lake and go through a day of boating. The key is that if the malibu owners participate they review all boats except malibu, this goes for everyone. If someone on here knows how to go about starting a trust that can oversee this, I would be happy to donate.

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quote:

By Dan DuLong (wakeitnofakeit) on Thursday, February 19, 2009 - 6:23 pm:

I love you guys. I would have thought anyone with an IQ over 80 would have got the joke. The point was to prove how stupid these lists are. JD powers, wakeboarding magazine, and wakeworld all review and survey boats that pay them. It costs $30,000 for JD to include you and if you win, you have to pay them another $100,000 to use them in your advertisements. I will tell you what send me fifty dollars and I will put whatever boat you want first. What I think should happen is that "we" meaning boat owners, riders, dealers, and manufacturers should all donate money to a test club. This club should be made up of two owners of each brand that wishes to be reviewed. Then they meet up with a dealer and or rep at a lake and go through a day of boating. The key is that if the malibu owners participate they review all boats except malibu, this goes for everyone. If someone on here knows how to go about starting a trust that can oversee this, I would be happy to donate.

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I love you too Dan. JD Powers doesn't review or survey boats, they survey boat owners... big difference! Your dollar figures are way, way off too. I guess I should have one of those IQ tests that you talk so highly of.

I got my numbers directly from a CC dealer who is a direct descendant of CC's original owner. I would just think everyone would be happy with a fair and unbiased review system. I am not saying JD powers is biased. I do feel that their requirements to be included are unfair and too costly for smaller companies.

I have put a lot of thought into creating a website that does reviews on boats based on measurable items only. Time to plane with multiple weights, wake pics at all line length with stock and added ballast, etc etc etc

But, how would something like this make money? If you keep it "un-biased" then you can't charge the manufacturers to have their boat included and god forbid you charge for advertising...

so you'd have to charge the consumer to view it. Would you pay 99 bucks or so to access information like this? Maybe but would 1000 other people? Yeah, it'd be nice but it's just not

He said ^^^...

"a direct descendant of CC's original owner."

BAHHHHHHAAAAAAAHHHHAAAAA thats funny ^^^ Its like we are talking about scripture or something.
The owners, first cousins, grandmas yardman.

sorry just struck me funny

(Message edited by woreout on February 20, 2009)

I think you are on the right track. I am not sure a 1000 people will pay 99 bucks, but I think 5000 would pay ten. To get started you would need donations. Manufactures can donate, but they must understand that the review may not be favorable. I agree that it should be based on measurable requirements, but I think there should be a bonus for overall enjoyment. Like I said I would be the first to donate.

disagree completely, what manufacturer is going to donate money in these times to some guy who wants to start a website (it's not like they are going to get a piece of ownership) and also who may HURT their marketing? And i think 5000 people is a HUGE stretch.. I'd be shocked if you could get 500 people to pay 10 bucks honestly.

iI think onlyInBoards is dumb as a rock, i agree 100%}

Then let them advertise on the site. The key is that the reviews are unbiased. If you called me and said ""we are reviewing wakeboard boats and would like to use one of our boats for the day". I would say sure. Grant it your advertisers will probably revolve with the rankings.

Gotta agree with onlyinboards here, there is just no way to make it financially viable.

Aside from that what about personal preference. I know what I like and I wakeboard so I can ride how I like, behind what I like and hang with people I like, I don't need a magazine or website to tell me what I like.

haha, love it. let's start the donations then. PM me for my paypal address and I'll start taking donations. Once I hit the 20k budget it would take to pay for this I'll get it going. I'm waiting for YOUR donation first Andy.

IMHO ,there is no real way to conduct a review that isn't biased in some way or another.Either by advertising,paying to play,ownership,previous experiences,etc. Everyones view would be their own personal opinion,and you know what they say about those.......

The only way is for the potential buyer to demo boats and form his own opinion on what is best for him. Just like boards,bindings,handles,lines.etc.

This reminds me of the "good deal on a boat" thread. Whatever price you're happy with is a good deal,just like any boat you're happy with is a great boat.

andy(michridr69), your opinion is your own and you are free to it of course….

with that said. calling out a guy like onlyinboards isn't helping your perceived IQ or giving you any credibility around here.

onlyinboards is a consistent poster on this board, and nearly always has something good and intelligent to add to the conversation.

btw - i don't know what you do for a living, but i doubt you have the kind of knowledge he does about what works and doesn't work in the web space.

as someone that has experience running HUGE commercial websites i agree that a wakeboat reviews website alone is not an enticing endeavor financially. There are so many more opportunities out there.

Oh, and Dan, the word you were looking for is Great Grandson. His mother was a Meloon. Don't believe everything he tells you.....he likes to have fun w/ people

What the heck is up with IQ and this forum, everyone knows if you are riding hard enough you lose IQ points every time you crash! And I have crashed a ton!

I'm a bit miffed here. You guys actually put that much creed into boat reviews when actually buying one? As if, some objective performance data written in a magazine will sway your decision. I'll bet less than 5% of buyers analyze like this. Me, I'll be demo testing the available ones in my price and geographic range and make up my own mind.

Don't get me wrong - I love reading about boats, seeing new ones & innovations down at the boat show, my dealer, at the ramp, etc. Not only is it interesting, it helps me form general opinions about brands, engines, handling, innovations, etc. But, to think that I would line up my top 3 potential boat buys based on data in a magazine, and then be swayed to one based on that... I don't think so.

You guys are putting way too much credibility into the "objectivity" of reviews. It's just publicity & marketing. And in general you have to work it hard or pay to play for that. That's how sales works.

My 2 cents.

good one. i do not know anything about web pages or internet, seriously i dont care, y would i want to know that stuff?? wont make near as much money, my opinion of course tj

Normally I just skim through and read these threads for pure entertainment or some helpful tips… but after reading some of this thread I decided to register and post for once. I don’t understand why everyone is so bent out of shape about CC winning this award. My family owns a CC, but we did not buy the boat because it has won JD Power award. We bought the boat because we liked the style and it fit our needs. It ultimately was the right choice for us. I could care less if some one else thinks the dash is better in a Malibu, or a MC, more power to them. Maybe that’s why they decided to go with that particular brand. It doesn’t matter which brand you go with… Once you eclipse the 50k mark for an inboard you are going to get a quality boat (even the Wakecraft seems to be a nice boat). Not my first choice, but I could see why someone could think it’s great. If you like the wake, and you like the boat then JUST BUY IT, and ENJOY IT. I know we didn’t buy our CC worrying about what others might think, or if the resale is going to be good. We got it because we loved it after the first test drive. A boat doesn’t need an award to be the best, if you like it, then it is the best for you.

That is a great first post Tyler, I couldn't agree more, enjoy your CC.

Yep, I give up on an unbiased rating system. I only ask that if you are thinking of buying a boat, please try every one. Epic, Tige, Moomba, ect. Please do not be fooled that the top 2 or 3 or 4 are your only options. I agree that buying a boat is a unique experience. My booth at the show is next to a yacht, a sea doo, and a triuph. None of those people would ever buy a crossover boat. I will give anyone who wants a ride, and I am sure any dealer would do the same.

Mike thanks for the info. If you come to the the show, let me know, so I can get you in for free.

^^^^Lol! ^^^^ Did that last statement come from the man himself? I got a vendor pass from Craig last weekend(and a ride to the show ,and free parking...I'm such a freeloader....Hahaha),but it doesn't look like I'm going to make it back down before the show ends. Tell Craig to let me know when your boat hits his shop and I'll swing by there and check it out.I'm only 15 min. from there. I'd be interested in taking a pull behind your Wakecraft sometime,but my opinion won't mean much cause I suck at wakeboarding.

BTW, watch out for Fred,he's quite a weapon.

LOL did you go to york high? If you suck at wakeboarding then why buy that boat. Just curious.

It looks like everyone agrees. Their boat is the best brand! I would take a pull on any brand.

Nooo, Dan you were doing so good.

If you suck at wakeboarding then why buy that boat


The local dealer was all out of Sea-Doos.

LOL

Dan D. = total joke and my guess would go to a frat party if he was invited, even at his current age.

Andy from Mich - wow buddy, not only may you be semi-retarded but you somehow also manage to make me not like you. Usually is someone is really stupid I just feel bad for them and compassionate but not you.


Sea-Doo blows for wakeboarding... unless someone can show pictures of a GOOD sea-doo wake.

When it comes to wakeboard boats being good there is no best.... it is just a platform of all great boats, then everything below.

-- MC, CC, Bu, Moomba, Supra, Tige, Sanger, Supreme, EPIC, Wakecraft (happy), Centurion, Etc etc etc.... Most all inboard boats created today specifically to wakeboard are all very good.

... and Onlyinboards, you're the man... you've created one of the best/ easiest sites to find, sell, or just look for boats out there.
Thank you.

Nick are u some kind a gay?

Dan you really don't want there to be unbiased reviews, what you really want is to have your shot at a customer and putting them in a Wakecraft. You're upset with the "system" that the big three have the lion's share of the market and there's not much you can do about it except complain about how it's so unfair. So, let me get this right: you want people to pay you or someone to "unbiasedly" test boats? That just makes no sense at all. What's your hope, that people will find out that WC is a truly wonderful, kick ass boat? People buy for many, many other reasons besides a "review" and a test drive: a boat's image; dealer's reputation; what their friends think; resale value; warranty; perceived quality; after-the-sale support; proven reliability and so on. These are reasons you're not likely to make many WC sales and why WC as a company will not build up their market for many years. It's not because there are no "unbiased" reviews. BTW, good to know the local Correct Craft Dealer will warranty those "PMC" engines for you if you sell a WC. And who does the warranty on the boat itself? Oh. You farm it out to a local service shop and WC pays. Nice. That's the kind of support I want when I spend $60k on a towboat.

yes, but not nearly gay enough to rock a monster hyperlite sticker on my truck.

Now thats funny!

y not?

there isn't room next to my Sea-Doo one

okay... I cannot believe I'm getting into this, wow.

Everyone....argue away!

hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha lol iight ill giv it to ya

NE boat show review - I was in town for the wife's work, might as well check it out while she was busy.
Mastercraft - best booth. makes sense cause they are a mastercraft only dealership. (X2 was nice) looked good.
Malibu- stack em deep! your share a booth with cobalt so it should work out fine. i never even had a chance to see one in its entirety cuase they were side by side. but none the less boats looked good.
Nautique - HUGE LETDOWN!!!!! 2 boats? gray carpet that looked like concrete? selling the maloon family? this is your market right? i thought so, but I guess not.
Wakecraft - wakecraft was there? dang I missed it. but if i had seen it, i would have said to self "really, that tower? hmmm, well you are good at other things." also why only one model?
Tige - nice lime green boat (i think it was a 21). head turner and star of the show! boats looked good but floor layout was a little dead.

i don't remember the others, but i only had and hour at the show. i would take a yacht though.

i know this was a JD discussion but there was plenty of NE dialogue so i felt the need to interject!

here in cold cold cold Canada, we slap shot to death trash talkers.
WHATWHAT!

Where the hell was Wakecraft and Diamond Dan?

I was there. Pictures are comming.

MC @ NE Boat Show - (thanks for the compliment Ron) Show was a blast. Thanks everyone.

thanks for the props guys. Andy's just mad b/c I called him out for using 2 screen names to post.

The MC booth looks great! Hope the show went well for you....

Funny talk about a thread going WAY off course!!!

im pretty sure i dont have 2 names sry bro

Sorry for being late to the game on the JDPA discussion but had to chime in. I work on the boat study for JDPA and like to see how boat owners react to our study results (I also own a ski boat so feel I am qualified to be on this page). I am amazed that for as long as JDPA has been around, there is still so much misinformation about how we conduct our studies. We are certainly not like any magazine review in that the ratings are not our opinions, they are actual owners opinions. I would like to thank wakeboardsam for trying to clear up a lot of the misinformation. Let me try to address a few of the biggest misconceptions:
1) Manufacturers don't pay to be in the study. If you make roughly 500 or more boats in the segment we are surveying, you are in. OEMs like Sanger and others are not in only due to small sales volumes. Not all OEMs buy our study results but they are still included in study.

2) Owner names are purchased from an independent company that compiles owner names from state registrations (OEMS can not pick and chose which owners we survey).

3) Ownership length at time of survey is anywhere from 3 months to 1 year depending on when you purchased your boat.

4) Of the 7 segments we survey, Ski/Wake has by far the best boats top to bottom. If you look on our website, there is an overall industry rating for each boat. A boat like Malibu may be a 3 star relative to MC and CC but relative to all other boats, it is a 4.5 star. My point is that all boats in the ski segment are extremely well made relative to your typical boat.
5. Although sales and service satisfaction is not directly included in the index score we post, our data clearly shows that your sales and service experience have a tremendous influence on your overall satisfaction with the boat. Therefore, you can't just look at a boat in isolation...our ratings are strongly influenced by the customer's total ownership experience.
6)How does JDPA make money - we fund the total cost of the study including purchasing the names, sending out 50k surveys, etc. We then create reports for each segment and we sell the reports and a database that includes all the OEM's results and all their competitors results. The key for OEMs is the competitive data. Many companies do their own research or participate in the NMMA but those types of studies don't provide detail ratings on competitors. Our study does provide that. It is a real simple value proposition to OEMs - use the data to understand the competitive strengths and weaknesses of your boats. If you have a weakness such as seats, use the data to find out who scores well on seats and look at what they doing to rate high and use that insight to build better seats (could be as easy as using the same supplier). The end result is you get a better boat that is available to you to purchase. Since we have been measuring the industry since 2001, the industry has made great strides in terms of product quality, sales and service given no brand wants to see their poor scores posted in our press releases or on our site (JDpower.com). The best way to solve this issue is to build better boats and improve the dealership experience.

Be happy to answer any general questions but can't really comment on specific brands.

are you actually a JD power person or just someone from this thread who started a new account?

Also, did you rank Sea-doo?

Nick,

Was not aware people are that devious on this board....Yes, I work for JD power and I work on the marine study.

This is the first year Sea Doo and Yamaha jet boats were included in the study. Sea Doo is in the small runabout rankings and Yamaha is in the large Runabout rankings. They were kept out for years but we determined that the current jetboats are simply runabouts with alternative propulsion systems so we included them.

LOL, yes... there are a few that devious on here. But I didn't doubt your identity... your post was more professionally written than those in question are capable of...

(Message edited by phenom_1819 on February 23, 2009)

"5. Although sales and service satisfaction is not directly included in the index score we post, our data clearly shows that your sales and service experience have a tremendous influence on your overall satisfaction with the boat. Therefore, you can't just look at a boat in isolation...our ratings are strongly influenced by the customer's total ownership experience."

This is why Correct Craft has had such an impressive run winning this award. Not only do they build one of the best boats but their dealer network is top notch. I haven't seen or heard of too many people upset with their dealer post buying a new Nautique.

JD what to you charge companies to see the reports and if they win what do you charge them to use the award for their advertising campaigns?

Delta dave. I have owned a ford, chevy, mitsubishi, hyundai, jeep, pontiac,toyota and a volvo. I never once took them to a dealer for repairs. I took them to my local mechanic that I trusted. I have only been to a dealer if there was a recall. What if you wanted to buy a Sea Ray, but the closest dealer was four hours away and the mandated that you had to go to them. I assume you live in the delta region so you can boat year round. We have a very short season in NE. I have heard horror stories of people having a small problem and having to tow their boat four hours away, only to let it sit at the dealer for over a month, then having to tow it back. Their season is over, when if the manufacturer would have agreed to have their local marina fix the job that day, those people would have had a worth while season. I had a problem with my old IO's prop. My local marina did not only fix it that day, they came to my lakehouse on a barge and did it. I then sent the prop back to the manufacturer and they reimbursed me. This happened on a Saturday of a holiday weekend. I had a house full of guests. What if i had to tow my boat to the dealer to have it fixed? Mine and all my guests' weekend would have been lost. I ask what would you rather do?

Dan,

That is a slightly sensitive question and it certainly varies by client. A basic report which includes over 100 pages of charts and text and the database of information for only 1 segment can run between 20-30k. That is actually a bargain when you consider how much it would cost a manufacturer to go out on their own and gather results from a 8-page questionnaire for their brand and all the main competitors in the segment. For ad cost, that is not my area but let's just say some of the numbers that have been mentioned on this board are in the ballpark (but on the high side). Only award winners can have an ad claim, you can't be second and claim you are best in quality or something else. Also, ad claims are only good until the next study publishes, then you have to pull all your ads, display boards, etc. that mention the award/JD power.

Hey Sam,how is that IQ thing going for you.

JD-
Just wondering how you get your average standard?

Dan, you never had a warranty issue on your new vehicles? No recalls? Maybe you got your boat fixed in a day on that one issue. That is not the norm at all. If I were your potential customer, I don't think I would take that risk. Major issues can come up on new boats. I'm sure you've read on WW about how many guys have had transmissions go out in the first ten hours. The local "repair" shop or Correct Craft dealer has no incentive to warranty your customer's boat, especially in the middle of the summer in NE. Your customer could easily go without their boat for four weeks in your short season with any significant warranty issue. They could go without their boat for several weeks for a 20 hour service because the shop has a booked schedule and no time or incentive to get your customer's boat out ahead of the others.

What if the tranny goes out or the engine stops because of a factory defect or assembly problem? How long do you really think it takes for another shop to get authorization, get the part, put it in the schedule, get the work done and get it back to you? And what if the local shop is worried about getting paid and won't release it until the $3,400 bill is paid by the factory and the factory takes four weeks to pay them? Are you going to pay the bill so they get their boat back and take the chance that the factory is going to "redline" the claim and not pay all the charges? That happens.

What if the shop damages the upholstery or scratch the gelcoat? You could end up eating it out of your pocket if they deny they did the damage or refuse to fix it. That does happen. What if the customer's tower speakers are all stolen and the shop had no insurance and will not pay it? Are you going to pay $1,500 out of your pocket to keep your customer happy? What if the customer swears they had $900 in boards or three amps in the boat and they're missing? That happens too. Are you going to eat it?

I don't think you can plan that the local dealer or shop will get your warranty work (or even basic service) done quickly, correctly and without occasional incidence. So why would a customer spend 60k on a boat with you when you farm it out and they have no control over when it is fixed, over you and no control of an outside shop? Dan, I'm sure you're a good guy with the best intentions. What would I rather do? I would go with a Maxum or Moomba or Correct Craft or a brand that has a good, reputable local dealer where I know could warranty my boat quickly and correctly if there is a problem.

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quote:

By Cal (phenom_1819) on Monday, February 23, 2009 - 2:37 pm:

LOL, yes... there are a few that devious on here. But I didn't doubt your identity... your post was more professionally written than those in question are capable of...

(Message edited by phenom_1819 on February 23, 2009)

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Ha, ha... That would be me. I've had more names on this forum than anyone, probably...

Let's see:
- Bocephus (That was my favorite)
- Red Sovine
- Robert Earle Keene
- Wakeboardsam

I think it's pretty funny that most of my threads go on forever and ever.... Look at the Arizona find a third threads....

I'm sure that I missed at least another name or two...

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quote:

By Dan DuLong (wakeitnofakeit) on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 8:09 am:

Hey Sam,how is that IQ thing going for you.

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I'm sure I lost a few points this weekend trying to get the 360 nailed down... I land it every now and again..

Delta Dave I agree with you. In a perfect world I would go to my dealer for everything, but I have learned the hardway that once you buy you are just a guy. Some of these dealers carry five six and seven different lines and some even sub-out their service work, even though they are in the same building. If you are the dealer and you had the choice of fixing a 65000 dollar boat or the 600000 dollar boat, who goes first? I think we as a whole have gotten greedy. We want it all. All I can say that I am not in this for the money, it would be nice, but I do not want to take advantage of anyone. I had a young man willing to sign a contract for one of my boats, but then he told me he was going to use it on long Island sound. I pretty much talked him out of it. If a competitive skier said he wanted one of my boats I would tell him it is not for him. Now if a dad who still likes to ski and the kids are into tubing and wakeboarding then thats my market. All I can say is that I and Wakecraft would do whatever it takes to get our owners back on the water as soon as possible. I would give them my demo for the weekend if they needed it. People can be wowed by big buildings and lots of workers, but it is only the desire of the dealer and the manufacturer that will truly get you back on the water. I guess I would say If you own a Wakecraft you are not just a number. but a person. David Telling loves boats and wants families to enjoy what boating has to offer. I have that same compassion. Are you taking a risk? Sure. All I can say is if I didn't believe in the product or our ability to service it I wouldn't sell it.
p.s. I can not get my pics to upload. Any advice?

Moe,

The segment average is simply a weighted average of all the brand's scores in that segment(and in other segments, it includes some brands you may not see given we don't publicly show any brand under 100 returns, but these brands count toward the segment average). The weights applied are the sales volumes for each brand. Just an FYI, weighting does affect a brand's score, it only affects the segment average.

Dan,

That statement is totally false with regards to my dealership they are great and take care of me. I would be interested in how you arrive at such a generalized statement.

I think there is a conspiracy keeping Gekko boats from winning this award.

Clint it was because their check didn't clear