Advice for a First Time buyer

I am a first time buyer. I have been wakeboarding for three years and love it. I never liked water skiing and I also don't like tubing that much. So basically just a great wakeboarding boat. I want to spend around 40K. Should I buy a new or used for my first boat? Considering a used 2001 Calabria V-Drive, a used 1999 Mari-Star with all the options or a new Moomba XLV Gravity Edition. Are there others I should be considering?

I am planning on driving each and taking my friend who has owned a boat for over 40 years to look at the construction of it and the engine. He left the smaller boat market 20 years ago and now has a 58 custom pilothouse, but I think I can trust him to let me know if the boat is good construction and engine.

Any Advice?

sanger v210 or v215.

why sanger for a first time buyer? new or used sanger?

Sanger = the most under-rated boat out there. I don't think it's available in Washington, though. I've never seen one out here.

You might want to check out the Moomba Mob-V, too.

If money's not an issue, check out the Super Air Nautiques. I could set you up w/ a demo or two w/ Rob of Pacific Nautiques.

Either way, whatever you do, before deciding on a boat, make sure you demo the boat...weighted and unweighed. Demo it as if it's yours. We can all make suggestions, but ultimately, only you will know what's best for you.

I originally wanted an Air Nautique. I used to drive by Pacific Nautique and drool over the purple and gold one on display. I have heard they are really good reliable boats.

40K won't get me new one though, right? Would 40K get me used one (2000, 2001, 2002)?

By the way at the Seattle boat show, no one from the Nautique area would give me the time of day, a single female buying a boat didn't interest them. Not impressed due to that. Although, they weren't the only ones that treated me that way.

Yes, 40k will get you a kickass used one. In fact, I might be able to get you one that's loaded w/ Boss equipment. As a matter of fact, it's from a single female that bought it at Pacific Nautique! As for the Nautique guys not giving you the time of day, I'll have a word or two w/ them!

Give me a call for more info.

Joe
206/619-9196

Laci,
Look for things such as the dealer and their friendliness and service. The comfort of the boats and the features available. Also drive them if you have the chance. Of course you can get a used SAN for a good price. The other good thing with that is the hull has been the same since 1995. The graphics and interior options, etc have been changed but not the wake and construction. Hope this helps. As for the Nautique guys, take a check and wave it in front of their face!!

My advice.... Your first boat is going to be your learning boat. What ever you get, you are most likely going to ding it and scratch it a bit. Since you will now be a boat owner, you will be in the game and will find out many likes and dislikes as you get to meet people and have discussions based on your experiences with your new boat. I can't speak for everyone, but, my tastes and things that I thought were important going into my first boat and not the same as my second boat and maybe even heading into my third boat in the near future. So, Maybe save back some of that money for a down payment on a second boat in the near future. You will find that customer service on the boat is huge. Things will break. My view of how warranty items are handled has changed my perspective. I would say get a used boat, learn about it and other boats while enjoying and then find what you really like.

Whatever you choose, make sure and find a very good dealer. You will need them for servicing your boat. Talk to every dealer in your area. I would say let this be a very big factor in your decision. If you are looking at a Calabria, try Pro Tour and ask for Cameron. He is the owner. New Pro V's are in the mid 40's and up when I was there in October. I have owned 2 and they are great. If you have any questions you can also talked to the factory . www. calabriaboats.com Ryan or Bob at Calabria can answer all your questions.

I agree with Rod. Buy used, cut your teeth, then buy new if you want. The thing I've found is that there is always somebody looking to unload their boat for some reason, and you can usually get a good deal. I got my first boat from a couple going through a divorce - got a great deal. Got my second boat from a guy who was having money problems with his business, got an even better deal. Just keep your eyes open and focus on what looks like the best deal for the $$ because if you're like me (and the rest of us), you'll want something different in a year or two anyway. HTH

Thank you for the great advice. Keep it coming. I am going to test drive the new Moomba XLV this afternoon. I will let everyone know what I think.

Buy a used one for under 10,000 and see how you like owning a boat. There is so much more to consider other than wake.

1. Tow vehicle
2. Storage
3. Friends to share it with
4. Insurance
5. Manitenance
6. Gear- at least 1,000 for toys

Just a few thoughts to consider

tcluv85, check your mail.

Check out Matt at Bakes Marine 425-392-7599 or
John Davies Copes North 425-775-2889

I believe the the Maristar doesn't have "fins" on the bottom of the boat so it will not have quite the performance of the wakeboard specific boats out there. It will probably have a nicer ride in rough water though due to a more V shaped hull.

I second the fact that the dealer is very important and that it may be better to start out with a less expensive used boat to gain insight to upgrade in the future.

Spend your money (this year) on being a third. Hook up with everyone that you can ride with. See how much you like riding the different wakes, and how much you like boating. Try to ride on/behind every type of towboat out there to help formulate an opinion.

Go a lot, pitch in well, be a good guest. Just remember that when you get your boat, you're gonna be spending a lot of time with it both on and off the lake. Don't go into it with just a couple months' research under your belt.

Bruce is completely correct, the boat is only a piece of the shizzle. Going out with others should expose you to most of the issues.

With all that being said, if you end up loving to wakeboard but realize you might not need the pro-level wake, if your friend is going to be around for a while, you MUST ride on one of the out-of-production Toyota boats. Not for everyone, for sure, but you're gonna get an amazing boat for the money. (Not trying to hijack the thread).

(Message edited by toyotafreak on January 26, 2004)

So I drove the Moomba XLV tonight. Very nice ride. Handled well in the choppy Lk Wa water. Made nice turns, liked the layout. Even let me load it on the trailer (I have never done that before). I didn't ride behind it, obviously too cold.

The sales guy told me that I had till Sat. in order to get the price he offered (due to boat show pricing). I don't think I believe him. I need more time. And I am going to take it.

Plus...my truck won't pull that much boat and trailer I found out tonight. So now I have something else to figure in to the equation.

Thank you for the advice. If you think of anything else, please let me know. I have a feeling this could be a longer process.

So he shoots you his price and then tells you it has a time limit? HAHAHA!!! He must think you are a fool. Tell him he'll need to sell more than one boat this month to hit his numbers, then counter at 15-20% off his number. If he gets pissed, then you know you're in the ballpark...

TCL,

I emailed you directly on the boat show promotion and its timelimits.

Rick Tinker

Many Factory boat show offers are only good until the boat show or shortly after. I am sure that is what Ricks email is about and I know for a fact Centurions offer has a deadline. 15 to 20% is only realistic if the dealer is giving you MSRP numbers!

What people don't know is that boat show prices aren't really all that special. Most of them aren't any better than a deal worked out at the boat dealership.

This is probably a silly question, but how do I know what MSRP on this boat is?

I would say it is better to get a nice used boat than to get a new one, especially as your first boat. I have been raised with boats, and spent most of my childhood at my grandparrent's lakefront house on the weekends. I thought I knew what boat ownership was, but after having mine for a year and a half I realise that dragging a boat to the lake is not nearly the same as just getting in one at the lake. I would never give mine up, but getting a boat in that price range is a big discission.

I was luck, and a bad situation turned into a good one that paid for a chunk of my boat otherwise we would have probably gotten a lesser expensive boat, and probably not even a ski boat at that. (I always wanted one of the nautiques that I saw running around on the lake at my grandparent's lakehouse, and that was the main reason we got the boat we did.)

Tow vehicle is a big issue too. We had a '94 F150 with the 5.0 engine when we got the boat. It pulled it fine, but when we would tow for 3-4 hours going to a preferred lake our nerves were about shot due to the engine noise. We then decided to get the F250 with a diesel, and now it just lopes along with the boat behind us, and we are refreshed when we get to the lake and can enjoy it much more.

The traier is an additional item to think about. most dealers want to put the cheapest trailer under the boat because that is not what you came ther for, and most people want as much boat as they can afford. I would get a very good trailer. If you spend $40,000 on a boat you sure don't want it sitting on the side of the road while you get something to fix it, and you sure don't want the boat to get dumped off it either. I have a dual axle trailer, and most don't come with spare tires. I added two spare tires on mine because if one tire goes flat on a tandem trailer, you might not realise it till both tires on the same side are destroyed.

I would also keep in mind that while you shold never be rushed to make a major purches, you should also be ready to jump on a good deal that fits your need. Don't buy a boat you don't like just because it is a good deal though.

If I was buying again today, and only had $40,000 to spend, I would look at a used SAN like mine, or a used (maybee new) Malibu.

Keep in mind that as others have said there are more costs than just the purchase price. There is life jackets, safety equipment, tools, insurance, registration (trailer and boat seperate), storage, fuel, maintence (cleaning and fluid changes), repairs, modifications, toys, food while boating, tow vehicle, hotels when boating far from home, etc...

the saying that a boat is a hole in the water you throw money into is VERY true, but with all that said, the best times of life life have been while boating, and there is nothing that will make me want to give up my boat and all the enjoyment I get from it.

The dealer needs to make the same amount or more at the boat show since there are huge expense in having a booth at the show. However there are advantages to the boat show.
Many times the manufacture will have boat show incentives that are real savings
You have the dealers all in one place and can see all of the boats at one time
This allows you to negotiate with more than one dealer without having to drive all over.
The dealer will usually have some good financing deals arranged with the bank.

So I would not expect the dealer to give you a boat but with manufacture show incentives you can save some real coin.

Msrp on boats is not readily available like it is on cars however I believe that Supra Moomba has MSRP available on there web site


(Message edited by krbaugh on January 27, 2004)

laci, sanger is an outstanding boat with an awesome wake and you should be able to get a new or very near new with all the bells and whistles for 40 or less.
do a search on sanger here and you will see the positive feedback.

a lot of dealers definitely have different prices in feb versus may. they want to move that inventory quickly and boat show pricing is a way to do this. A tandem axle is a necessity if you trailer any kind of mileage. Another must as already mentioned, a good tow vehicle. Again, if you tow the distance, go with a 3/4 diesel. You will not regret the power, braking, and longevity. Buying a 40k+ boat is only the beginning.

a tandem axle trailor with brakes is required by washington state law im pretty sure.

Required? Maybe on boats 21' and longer, and/or 2000 boats and newer.

Laci,
I know the feeling I bought my first boat as a single 19 year old female, a 2001 X-Star from your kent dealer they were so nice to work with that when they switched to selling Supra I sold my X-Star and bought a new SSV. They always treated me very well. Maybe you would be better off with the LSV that is the same size as my old X-Star awsome size to start with also very easy to tow behind any truck.

(Message edited by drifter on January 27, 2004)

I dunno I think some people just underate their tow vehicles. My dad uses his chevrolet 2500. I(I'm only 16)use my crown victoria Ltd Lx. Got rear air bags on it(to keep it from sagging),transmission cooler and some generic tires and the Vic pulls the 91 ski supreme out pretty good sometimes the tires slip a little but it does the job.

Drifter, if you get back on, can you e-mail me? I would like to talk to you further about the exact dealer.

Thank you

So it appears due to Everett, WA having a boat show in mid March, I can take time to make this decision and try to find a new tow vehicle or find a boat that my truck can tow.

So keep the advice coming. Every last comment helps when making a decision like this.

Travis a 2500 with air bags should be able to pull any wakeboard boat made that is a semi heavy duty truck.

Hey Travis, glad to hear I'm not the only one who has a CAR for a tow vehicle! I'd put my '96 Roadmaster wagon with the LT1 and tow package up against any new 1/2 ton gas truck, but that's another thread!

I agree with the "buy used" guys. You will lose little or nothing on it if you decide to sell it in the not-to-distant future, but you'll lose alot on a new one. Like others said, you'll probably find you want something a little different down the line. Or you might get lucky and find out there is no other boat you'd rather have, and that's OK too!

I don't have a boat, so take this for what it's worth.

Why should a person buy used just because it's his/her first boat? I mean, shouldn't he/she get what he/she wants in the first place? If researched fully and the boats are demo'd, then there's a chance that he/she will be happy w/ the purchase.

My point is, just 'cause some people have had bad luck w/ their initial purchase, doesn't mean the next person will make the same mistake. Do your research. Demo the boats. The goal is to get the right and perfect boat for you...the FIRST time around! There shouldn't be a trial period.

You're right, Joe, the goal IS to get the right boat the first time around, but there's no reason it can't be a used boat AND be the perfect one. But since a first time boat buyer hasn't had a boat before, chances are, even with a decent amount of research, you'll discover things you didn't realize until you've had one a while. And IF you decide you'd rather have something else (or none at all), you won't lose much $$, maybe none. If money is no object then of course it doesn't matter. But assuming it IS an object, a used boat could be the perfect boat, and if not it will give you most of your money back.

Good advice joe.

Or, you could be like me and just get lucky. I bought my 2000 VLX after wakeboarding only a few times. I only knew that wakeboarding thrilled me so I needed to get a boat.

Luckily, I bought a v-drive from BU/MC/CC. And, a v-drive from Sanger or Supra would have worked too. I really think a buyer can't go wrong with any of these boats.

I definitely agree that it should be done right the first time. I personally don't believe in the "buy used theory". Why buy used when you have the option to buy new? If you do your research,demos and don't rush into a decision your boat purchase will be satisfying for a very long time.

You "buy new" guys have good points. If you KNOW what you want for sure and you've been around boats for a while and know that skiing/boarding is not going to be just a phase for you, and you've got the dough, new may be the way to go. But even if all the above is true, you may still find a perfect used boat and save some $$. I bought a 15 y.o. (at the time) boat and to me, it's the perfect boat! A new 196 would be perfect too if I had the $$... ;)

Here is my personnel experience. Take it for what it is, but, I do try and be very well thought out and shop for months on end before I buy anything of great cost.

I talked to many dealers and money at the time was a big issue. I had never really had the opurtunity to go out with others and try different boats. Every dealer I went too told me I had to do a credit ap to demo. Credit aps ruin your credit. I talked to the Natique, Mastercraft, Natique, Sanger, MB Sports, Supreme. Those were my local choices. They were too expensive new. I did drive a few boats. I almost bought a Malibu Sportster. I decided it was too small. I found a real nice MB Sports Boss 210 for my price range. Most people do not tow riders and wiegh down a boat for a demo for a first time buyer. I know I did not.

I found out the following with my first boat ownership. Find a better dealer. The dealer tried to cheat me out of small stuff all the time. I did not like a boat with a flat bottom because it was too squirly around the dock and at low speeds. I did not care for the direct drives as much as far as room. I wanted fuel injection. Carlisle tires suck big time. I found it was better that I did not get a boat with 1 inch running gear or I may have been stranded a couple of times on the delta. I found my boat could not handle the weight very well and the nose would dip real bad in to the wakes. It made me be around the sport more and I got to ride with other people and find things I like. I found out how expensive it is to be a boat owner and how much of a commitment it can be. I found out that I had some wally blood in me even with friends that had been in boats before. I found out what a boat could do and not do and how to drive a boat. I found I will never own another boat withou perfect pass. Needless to say, the first boat took a bit of a beating, but, not too bad. I would never want my new boat to go through what that first on did. I found boat stands for Break Out Another Thousand.

Then my second boat, I found I loved the cockpit space of my V-drive. I love my swivel bolster seat. Nice gauges. Big wakes. Handles weight very well. Negatives..... Gas usage compared to a direct drive is more, insurance for the new boat is twice as much, twice as much luxury tax. Check out how much a finace company will loan a person willing to buy your boat or if you want to refinance it. People may say that boats hold there value and some do, but, the lenders will only do NADA guide and that can be 20% less than your out the door cost. So, if you decide you do not like the boat or can not afford the hidden costs each year, then you will be out a pretty penny. Find out more about how the company handles claims against it's warranty. I found mine was my enemy when I had bolts fly off of my shaft and then knocked a hole in the V-drive and I found out the extended warranty that I purchased for $1900 was suppose to be "bumper to bumper" only covered the engine after it was too late.

Other things is yearly services or more. Boat storage, can you keep that new boat looking new? Tow vehicle wear and tear. Extra gas. Do you have enough friends or people to have a reliable crew?

It is just a matter or perspective. Some guys have had the opportunity to go out with friends a long time before they bought so they know what they want. Some people have their boats and never get to spend 8 hours at a time a day on other boats and drive them while towing boarders. Some people do not have to do the things between the water times to keep up the boat. I did not until I bought my first boat and now I have. I found my tastes changed completely from the first boat until the next.

Lots of great advise, but everybody is different. While shopping for a boat first find what you want, V-drive,I/O,direct drive,Jet powered,Sail, rowable etc.Then look at the seating configuration, wrap around ,sport, traditional,buckets,etc. What do you want the boat to do for you, ski, wakeboard,runabout,cruise. What waters are you planning to use it in? Big waters, river, lakes, private lakes,ocean? How many people and how much gear , does the boat have enough storage? Can you pull the boat with you current vehicle? And then what boat can you afford? Remember that boats new and used have issues, Are you willing to dig out of your pocket for repairs? Ask local dealers about hourly shop rates.
How long has the dealership been in buisness? How is there service department? Is parts readily available? If used do the sellers have all service records? Does the boat have a transferrable warranty? Is there a fee? Most people know that they want a boat and have been boating with friends and family prior to looking for a boat.So basically if you found a boat that you love and it fits all your criteria find your best deal and drive it and buy it when your ready..... Remember this everyone needs to make some money, boatshow promotions are for real. All manufacters have there deals at the show that make buying at a show more attractive for customers and for selling for the dealers. There is a time limit for customers to buy. Call the factory for there promotions... My 20 cents...Everybody deserves to be happy with there decision

(Message edited by supra on January 28, 2004)

Great questions to ask, Kevin, but it's easy for you to say all those things since you're in the business of selling boats.

Buy used, make mistakes, learn from them before you spend the big bucks.

Yeah, let's spend thousands of dollars for the sole reason of learning mistakes.

Here's a better advice. Listen to the mistakes that's been made, and not make them by getting it right the first time.

Get a Pontoon boat, party on it all summer, and use somebody else's tow boat. You get the best of both worlds.

Yeah I guess, I do sell used boats as well, like I said everyone is a little different and in different situations.

Hey everyone let's try to keep this non sales like...there are people who are reading this who are seeking non sales boat owner advice.

Huh

I think what she's saying is that she'd rather hear from someone w/ buying experience...not selling experience.

Yep Joe, that is what I was trying to say...

Thank you for stating it better.

since Kevin is not trying to sell you a boat, why not listen to his advice/expertise. Everything he said seems like good advice...and no, I'm not a boat salesman

I think that's what Kevin was trying to do.

Yeah Joe....She said she wants buying experience Just messing with ya...

Sukka!!! I've bought stuff before!

I'd buy used.
Nothing like fixing Gelcoat from dock dings and trailering mistakes on a $40K + boat.

The depreciation factor alone on a new boat will kill ya. I don't care what People say New Boats don't hold there value. A Used boat may have a chance if bought at the right time.

Keep your new/used boat inside when not in use.
Sun Damage is second only to Fat,Drunk,Clumsy friends who step on Seats after being told not to and they could care less what your payments are.

Break
Out
Another
Thousand

Join the Club!!!!!!!!

http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/8/14.html?1075430371

for a first boat, buy used so you will appreciate a new boat more and it wont bother you as much if it gets dinged or the seats arent treated like gold. Learn the mistakes on a used boat so you wont be suprised when unknown expenses arrise and you will have the extra cash left over for these. We are not saying to buy a 15 year old boat but say one that is about 5 years old or so. To start out with a +- 20' boat as your first boat is alot...but to start out with a brand new one comes with a different cans of worms.

Hey Laci,
Long time, no see. Doin some boat shoppin, huh. Well, coming from a guy who's owned 3 boats in 10 or 12 years..... I've never had a new one so I don't know how great it can feel to drive a boat's first few hours..... or suffer it's biggest depreciation. My first purchase was as a kid & I learned a lot, how to drive, how NOT to drive, and basic rules on the water. My 2nd purchase was as a young adult & where I learned how to board, tow the boat, party hard, & even put one of the very first extended pylons on that boat. It took a beating but served us well. The latest purchase was 3 years ago, as a fairly experienced rider & I knew what I wanted my boat to do. I chose the MC 205, found a '94 I paid $16k for & it only had 60 hours on it. Slapped a tower & some weight in it & the boat does an awesome job. I still get compliments on it all the time. There were newer boats out there that would do the job. And some of those boats are now worth a lot less now than they were 3 years ago. But the 205 is still worth $16k - $18k pretty easily. I haven't had to "bring out another thousand" either...... yet.
Good luck & drop me a line if you ever make it out to Lake Coeur d'Alene..... yea, I moved this winter. Lookin forward to tearin up the river soon enough.