10 in or 12 in

i m going to be running 2 subs in my truck( i know i know wrong thread) because i punctured my surround on my current twelve and was wondering if i should go with 2 ported 10s or 2 sealed 12s. for reference these are kicker comp subwoofers

10's are better for quick punchy music(Punk,hip hop, ect)
12's would be better if your into rap and want very deep low, longer bass.

Not true. Woofer size has absolutely nothing to do with it's speed or response.

http://www.adireaudio.com/Files/TechPapers/WooferSpeed.pdf

Your decision needs to be based on your listening preferences, the space you have available for an enclosure and how much power your amp can provide.

There are way too many variables to give a good answer to your question. Give us some details on your listening preferences, space available and your overall system configuration.

Greg, if that wasn't true, then why would you need to know his "listening preferences"? That's kind of contradictive to your own statement "Not true. Woofer size has absolutely nothing to do with it's speed or response".

Depends on how big the box is for the sealed 12's. I would go with the ported 10's. Space in a truck is limited and the best sound for the least amount of space is better IMO.

ummm. there are a lot of factors involved..here is "my general observation " so take it with a grain of salt..

consideratons.....
-sealed vs. ported for the box

-ported will go lower and and play louder but at higher volumes..can sound a little "loose". doesnt sound as good at lower volumes ported boxes tend to be larger in size.

- sealed sounds better at lower volume and has more detail (pitch & definition)... sealed are not as loud at high volumes... boxes are smaller..

in a truck, i would imagine 2 high quality 10's (3 10's would be awesome!!!) in a smaller sealed box with a high quality class d amp would sound great....

as far as for "speed" of a driver...there is some some minor speed differences in terms when comparing 10" to 12"

a identical but smaller driver will roll off higher and have more detail, and most people will say that sounds faster...in the case of a 12" -the lower the frequency the less sound and the more air us being moved...

most people (85% estimate) have not heard real bass (20hz)..they think they have because a car system is speced for it or a home theatre... but a lot of car bass is on the 60-100 hz range (a car is too small of a lisening enviornment- also notice how the bass is louder outside and even further away ???)...and most home theatre systems are in the 40 hz...

real 20 hz bass needs a really large room (at least 30x40) and lots and lots of power with really large drivers (15"-18")about a $150k for a 2 channel audio system.. there isnt a lot of information that low...just lots of air(pressureization) of the room and shaking...

would go sealed for a truck ( i have had really good luck with image dynamic idq series- small box requirements, efficent, high quality construction(one piece surround), slammin bass and detailed too..

Wakepirate, did you not read the link? It explains exactly why woofer size does not determine it's speed or response.

In no way did I contradict myself. Listening preferences will determine the particular woofer and the type of box that would be optimal for the listener.

For instance, Kicker L7's are well know for being very loud and to work very well in ported enclosures for output. They are not known to be very good for sound quality. They would be a good choice in a ported enclosure for rap or other music that emphasizes very low bass output.

They would not be very good in a ported enclosure for rock or metal that has a lot of kick drums. The actual size of the driver has little to do with this determination.

Take for instance, a Image Dynamics IDQ15. It is known as a very good sq woofer that has plenty fast response to handle kick drums in rock music. It would easily be a good recommendation over two IDQ10's if someone has the space for it and wants more output without losing sound quality or quick bass response.

Woofer manufacturers design their drivers to operate within certain parameters. Some are designed for sound quality, some for output and some are designed to combine both. If designed properly the size of a woofer within a particular model lineup will not have a major effect on the sound that the woofer produces. It will effect the loudness of the woofer, the power handling and will typically lower the bass extension as you go larger.

But to make a blanket statement that 10's are faster than 12's is completely wrong.

Wakepirate, did you not read the link? It explains exactly why woofer size does not determine it's speed or response.

In no way did I contradict myself. Listening preferences will determine the particular woofer and the type of box that would be optimal for the listener.

For instance, Kicker L7's are well know for being very loud and to work very well in ported enclosures for output. They are not known to be very good for sound quality. They would be a good choice in a ported enclosure for rap or other music that emphasizes very low bass output.

They would not be very good in a ported enclosure for rock or metal that has a lot of kick drums. The actual size of the driver has little to do with this determination.

Take for instance, a Image Dynamics IDQ15. It is known as a very good sq woofer that has plenty fast response to handle kick drums in rock music. It would easily be a good recommendation over two IDQ10's if someone has the space for it and wants more output without losing sound quality or quick bass response.

Woofer manufacturers design their drivers to operate within certain parameters. Some are designed for sound quality, some for output and some are designed to combine both. If designed properly the size of a woofer within a particular model lineup will not have a major effect on the sound that the woofer produces. It will effect the loudness of the woofer, the power handling and will typically lower the bass extension as you go larger.

But to make a blanket statement that 10's are faster than 12's is completely wrong.

well the ported ten is smaller or abot equal to my current seealed 12(kicker comp which i think is a great sub for the money).i listen to a lot of rap and a lot of punk and rock. i will be running them at about 150 watts each. when i say them i mean kicker comp because i have decided on the sub already i just was wondering if i should switch to 10s instead of 12s

If you have the space for a ported enclosure then the 12" Comps will probably be the best for you since it sounds like you want output.

From what I have read the new Kicker Comps work better in a ported enclosure than sealed. Build a ported enclosure based on the recommendations from Kicker. 150 watts each should be fine just don't turn the gains all the way up or you may clip the amp at high volume. That will destroy a set of subs in a hurry.

BTW, Clubmyke, a sealed enclosure will play lower than a ported enclosure. The tuning frequency of a ported enclosure acts like a filter preventing the sub from playing much lower than that frequency. Below the tuning frequency the sub produces a lot of distortion which is why a subsonic filter is recommended when going ported.

You are correct in your statement that ported enclosures are louder but that is only around the tuning frequency of the port and is only 3db.

You also may want to do a little research about being able to hear lower notes in a car. I used the think the same way you do that below a certain frequency the notes don't have time to "develop" in a car due to wavelength. But that is actually not the case.

"as far as for "speed" of a driver...there is some some minor speed differences in terms when comparing 10" to 12"" - Regarding this statement, that is only true if the motor strength is the same between the two. If the 12" has a stronger motor then it could be faster than the 10. Usually, a good woofer designer will design the motor structure of a 12" driver in the same line as the 10" to have a similar motor strength to size ratio so the transient response will be nearly identical.

greg,

- last time i checked 3db is a pretty big gain..
- lower frequncy in a sealed vs ported box is volume dependant...sealed boxes dont sound that great at high volume too much distortion...
- low notes in a car....would suggest listening to a pair of wilson wamms or a system with a wilson watchdog sub.. comp car systems pale in comparison..

clubmyke ~ I believe I heard what you are talking about(20hz)at a rave party about a decade ago.To this day I never heard ANYTHING that compared to that one party.(2 rooms and a hallway)Absolutely "MINDBLOWIN" note: this was 10 years ago.

I love loud bass but this was absolutely unbarable,I thought my eardrums were gonna POP!

ok so i think i have decided on ported 12s but is there anyone that can help me with the design of the box. i can cut and assemble boxes easily but im not good at calculating all the dimensions and volumes?

thanks
charley carvalho

charley... I have 2 Kicker Comp 12s sealed in my 03 gmc sierra ext cab under the rear bench seat. Hits pretty loud with only a 400w amp (mostly rap for me). What truck do you have? P.S.-> betcha didnt think your question would cause an unproar and argument. Geez... ppl are funny.

LOL

maybe i should start thes guys a thread so i can get an answer to my question. o i have an 86 f 150 single cab

I would have to agree with grant

Piece of advice.

Go here and ask for help in the subwoofer section. http://www.sounddomain.com

You will need to provide some basic information like how much space you have to work with, how much power your amp can provide, listening preferences, etc. You will get a better response over there and they won't start trying to compare huge nightclub systems to car audio.

Good luck and I hope it turns out to your liking. If you haven't bought your subs yet keep an open mind about equipment as there are lots of options out there beyond the mainstream.

would also suggest listening to as many systems as you can (friends, dealers, comp shows)and look at different design and hear different systems( sealed vs ported, 10's vs' 12's, amps used etc, electrial system......)

from there you can establish a "reference point"... there are alot of points of reference and personal preferences...i "voice" all my systems as close as i can to my 2 channel system..though i have heard a lot better it isnt that bad ( try to find a wilson audio dealer by where you live so you can take a listen, the speakers and systems associated with them are a good reference point imo on what is obtainable in music reproduction )

i personally havent heard too many nightclub systems ( dont make it out much, been married a really long time). but i have done(owned) 4 car systems, 6 high end 2 channel systems and auditioned to A LOT of high end components 2 channel, home theatre, and comp car systems.. (currently in the process of doing a home theatre system, boat, outdoor, and tower speakers..whew!!!) each listening enviornment is very unique and different and but the sound strengths are the ones that appeal to "my taste" (cohesive soudstage, intergrated mid-bass to bass, warm midrange, detailed but too bright top end - i will sacrifice the bottom last few hertz for detailed bass to midbass intergation)...not to mention it usually takes about 1 year to get a system broken in and hours to get it dialed in...

i really agree with greg that there are a lot of options beyond the mainstream.