Why do some riders hate the Nuclear Grab?

I can see Tindy being ridiculed, but why Nuclear?

Because it wasn't a legit grab (or in some cases a possible grab) in the founding board sports.

I personally dig it when it's done right, or added to the right trick.

Because they've been told to do so by the wakeboarding establishment/elitists. Pretty sad actually. Unfortunately, wakeboarding is the insecure punk kid of the boardsports industry and it's always trying to do what it can to please the "cool older kids" (snowboarding, skateboarding, surfing) rather than just being itself. I can appreciate looking to other sports for influence, but it's kind of sad the way some hinge their every thought on this relationship.

If it's fun for you to grab nuclear or tindy, then grab the hell out of that biznatch!

well put Dave!

Many consider it a sloppy grab, just like slob/tindy/tailfish. I personally don't like it because I'm just sick of seeing it. Maybe if it were done with a variety tricks I wouldn't have grown to hate it the way I do .

You primarily see nuclear grabs used in tantrums, ts backrolls, batwings, and then there's the infamous 'nuclear glide'. So lets see - the grab is used 99% of the time in either the raley variation from either side of the wake, or the 'back flip' from either side of the wake.

The monotony is what does it for me. I'd be fine never seeing another backflip or raley with a nuclear grab.

edit - Wow, three posters got in here before I could hit enter. Just wanted to say I could care less about what a different board sport considers legit. Oh yeah, and I happen to like slob, and it will stay that way as long as everyone's not grabbing there on every raley and scarecrow.

(Message edited by focker on May 21, 2008)

I like that take, if its fun do it. Who cares what anyone thinks.

my old ars can barely grab indy these days so if i can get a finger on the board in any fashion i'm happy.

Old??? C'mon now Jarrod, I don't know about you, but I chose this sport later in my years to save whatevers left of the knees!

Oh, and I got your grab right here!

I think it's lame that there are three different grabs within 10 inches of each other on the nose of the board. You have crail, seatbelt, and nuclear. Do we really need all three? grabbing the nose with your front hand is already hard, does it make that much of a difference if you are grabbing it five inches one way or the other?

Grab however you want and tell whoever talks crap about it to screw off. Ride for yourself and have fun. Nuclear grabs are probably the hardest grab to get. It takes the most flexibility and tweaks your body in a way that forces you to focus on the landing. I think nuclear grabs are sick. And a nuclear glide is one of the coolest looking tricks in my opinion

^^^ditto every word of what jason said..^^^

"Grab however you want and tell whoever talks crap about it to screw off."

Agreed 100%! Magazines and videos have been the downfall of originality in this sport and every board sport. Be yourself and forget about the kids trying to be cool - that to me is what original skater attitude was about.

i do agree w/ proho, i've never understood why there are 3 different grabs within that "spot" on the board, but agreeing with the crowd, i have fun no matter how i grab the freakin board!

My feeling is whatever grab feels good to you, grab it! Who cares which grab it is. Some nuc grabs look terrible (ie amber wings) and some look amazing (lymans). Its all personal preference, im sure some people like Ambers.
AND YES I WILL NOT TAKE HEAT FOR CRITICIZING HER NUCLEAR, SHE IS A PRO AND IN THE SPOTLIGHT THEREFORE UP FOR CRITICISM

I think nuclear grabs are sick. D Harf throws a sick Nuclear Whirly (I think its a whirly).

^^^^^Agree with Shehan 110%

I think it's a failure of imagination and the essence of style if a rider cannot find a way to make any standard grab their own and resort to blaming the industry for killing originality or whatever else.

Anyway, the nuclear did not begin with wakeboarding (along with the other food grabs, and most other weird grabs in general), so I imagine the distaste for this grab has nothing to do with its origins. I think it has to do with the fact that it's more of a twister grab. Regardless of how many grabs are invented, there is a small list of preferred grabs--basically classics in between the bindings (indy, frontside, melon, method, lien, stalefish) and nose and tail. Of course, after that it's up to the rider. I think greg nelson is a great example of making the classics look original and distinct. However, he'd also take a different grab, like roast beef or whatever, and basically make it look completely sick. And I don't think the difficulty of the actual grab is the key, but it's more about the difficulty involved in making something look good, hence all of the weight put on a really nice looking method (palmed out or otherwise). If it were all about the difficulty, I think everyone would be rulling the world with the mosquito grab (haha).

And I will say this since I say it about wakeskating all the time and the vibe here is similar: if you're the average joe out riding, it really doesn't matter what you do as long as it's fun and you're happy with it. if you're representing an artform that people before you had worked really hard to promote and open the eyes of others to see the same promise that they saw, then there is a different level of responsibility at hand. I think most recognize that you'll never make everyone happy, because, as an example, there are still skaters that thing snowboarding is lame, even in the boardsport oriented culture we live in today. However, a certain level of respect is not a bad thing, And I think a lot of the publications take this into consideration, and that is why they will be opinionated and maybe make you hate them for that. And I think there is respect--if legitimate companies like Oakley (who had left wakeboarding for awhile and later re-emerged--that is why matty swanson is the man) and Billabong are willing to invest the money they've invested in serious productions that represent their team, there's something to be said for that...

but I digress!!

I have yet to see a grab that I didn't like. I will qualify that by saying that there are certain riders that can pull off some grabs and make them look good. I have seen some people grab tindy with a tweak and give it style and it looked good to me. Seems like Struharik had a tindy glide that looked great a few years back. Same way with nuclear, certain people make it look great and given the level of difficulty, I respect people that utilize it in their riding.

"And I will say this since I say it about wakeskating all the time and the vibe here is similar: if you're the average joe out riding, it really doesn't matter what you do as long as it's fun and you're happy with it. if you're representing an artform that people before you had worked really hard to promote and open the eyes of others to see the same promise that they saw, then there is a different level of responsibility at hand."

I miss reading awesome posts like this.

Before the new judging system was implemented, i felt that many 'pro' contest riders where doing far to many basic inverts and adding in the nuclear grab as a "throw away move" similarly something like the tootsie roll was being seen far to much.

These moves aren't difficult for pro riders, but they would be seen!

I feel that ever since Danny Harf started including the Nuclear Whirly (Sick by the way.) in his pass, it was the trend and the grab to learn and use in every single, possible, imaginable way.
With the new system we won't be seeing as much of this.

I remember back in the day i would go to the X- Games, and everyone was throwing Indy Tantrums. It's a cool trick, but nothing to get stoked about.

.... Then i saw Josh Sanders throw a Roast Beef Tantrum and it was probably my favourite trick for 3 years, not too difficult, not to fancy, but boy was it different!!

Im a fan of the tail grab tantrum.

Personally I think it takes skill to grab seatbelt and nuke. I like the ts nuke backroll 2 blind, and I like amber's nuke. trick wise I don't think that grabs a trick to start a style war with unless your talkin bone em or don't. There is only one trick I can think of that lacks any style or flow and that is the h/s backroll 2 blind [late].

Edit: BTW I tired of hearing about tricks people don't like seeing.

(Message edited by hawk7 on May 21, 2008)

esnow, laying it down as usual

Yah, nice to see electric chime in on this, preach it brotha.

Damn, E-snow and Josh R in the same thread.... what's going on, am I having a flashback

Oh and E-snow is a chick, so watch out cause she kick ass and takes names

i think a massive nuclear tantrum to blind is one of the best looking tricks out.

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=140157104& albumID=1071232&imageID=10326451

This pic of Scotty Green will end this arguement. If you have access to Aussie mags, you need to check out the cover of him in all his nuclear goodness.

whats wrong with the tindy grab? i think its just a different place to grab.... whats so special about the indy?? their all dope and Scotty green definitly added his own style to the grab, i think that no matter were you grab if its your style then do it.

I can make a tindy look good, and i like doing it.

chad sharpe and a bunch of other pros do do massive tindy glides...personally i think its looks better than an indy glide and you can get a real good poke on it on it too

Dave made quote of the day on alliancewake.com hahaha

Ms. E-Snow, very well stated as usual.

Hmmm Ignorance is definitely bliss!

A Tindy or TailFish have NEVER actually been considered as grabs or tricks even in other sports, the names where intended as put-downs for when someone missed a grab or couldn't do the actual grab they where trying and regarded as lame mainly because they look weak (they also don't feel as good). eg not a Tail grab or an Indy hence "Tindy"! Same with Tailfish.

Don't get me wrong it IS all about FUN but believe me a well executed indy feels a whole lot more fun than an equivellent Tindy etc. if you've ever floated a 60' or 70' Indy, Tail or Method grab on a snowboard and then done the same Tindy you would know exactly what I'm talking about!!

I've been snowboarding for 20years (pro for 7)
Skateboarding for over 25 years and now wakeboarding for about 7 years

I can't believe this subject still comes up so much in wakeboarding.

Style is FREE (freestyle) but you'd probably still laugh at someone dressed like a dork!?

The reason people like Watson, greenwood, harris etc are regarded as 'Stylish' is because they put time into making tricks look and feel better and even study the best snowboarders etc for inspiration.

Wow- a lot of good info in her for both sides of the coin. I really think that David Williams nailed it. It is pretty sad that some people hate on a grab or a style. Especially one thats really hard to do. The difficulty of the grab I think is what turns some people off from it. Its not easy, I sort of pride myself in being able to do a "legit" (if there is such a thing) Nuke, I love doing them as a straight air or taking them to blind. The hate of the nuke is something that I just dont understand, really the hate of any grab is something I dont understand. I wakeboard for self expression, I go do the tricks that I think are stylish and fun for me to throw. I dont think its even possible for me to hate a trick I got mad respect for everything in wakeboarding.

I am gunna nuke this thread!
One of my personal fav shots.


Where's Kaesen Syderhound with a NukeFish Shot!

This has got me thinking, when is a grab more than a grab, when does it become a move or a trick? With the new judging style at PWT events I think it safe to say some grabs are more of a move or a trick than just mearly a grab, this topic might warrent a whole other thread!

esnow, i admit i didn't read you entire post. i just want to make a point on part of it. you say the negativeness toward nuclear grabs comes from it being a "twisty" grab. the funny thing is, the people who feel that way are the people who think a method is the ultimate maneuver- but it's a twisty grab! a rider's body position can be the exact same. look at the newest wakeboard mag with randy harris on the cover- he could be holding the handle with his right hand instead of his left, and grabbing the board with his left hand and it would look like the same trick to 95% of the people that see it.

done right, i like nuclear grabs. i like methods. if we were riding and somebody did a good method, i would give them a fistpump, if he did straight nuclear grab, i would just keep driving.

do whatever makes you feel good. we can argue on here but in a way i hope nobody really changes their mind about how they feel b/c it's good for people to be different/ ride different.

http://knoxvillewake.proboards70.com/index.cgi?board=wakeboardingdiscussion&action=disp lay&thread=571

here's a quick pic of what i'm referring to

"Hmmm Ignorance is definitely bliss!"

It sure is.

Who are you to tell someone that a certain grab will feel better for them than another. That's completely laughable. Nice try though.

If you want to be the style police, then go right ahead. But don't try to tell another rider what's going to feel better for them.

And yeah...we all know where the names came from.

I'd be grabbing nuclear and seatbelt every day if I could reach them. Totally sick grabs, especially on tantrums, and I've been skating and snowboarding for 10 years longer than wake. Let wakeboarding be wakeboarding.

I don't want to ride with people who get their panties in a bunch over grabs. You are riding behind a boat on a board, don't take yourself so seriously!

Alliance came back with it as the "Quote of the day"

"If it's fun for you to grab nuclear or tindy, then grab the hell out of that biznatch!"

Spoken like a true industry legend. Well he is.

I love to do nuclear grabs! PC: Hahn

To touch on what ES said, I believe there are two groups of riders out there and they inter-mingle on this site. You have the recreational group, and you have those really into the actual riding. The recreational group should not care how legit grabs are or not. They should only care about what is simple and fun. You also have the obsessed rider who is more serious about the composition of his riding, these riders should consider the position of his grabs and the style behind it.

As far as nuke goes, I am indifferent to the actual grab. I am a bit dissapointed as it seems a bit forced as a result of staleness in the sport. It seems so unnatural which makes it lack smoothness. It makes me feel like we are so bored with the style that we have to trick it up with un-natural poses just to add difficulty.

IMO, when you have to build bigger and wilder obsticles, and you have to trick up all your moves with contortionist grabs, the sport is not heading the right direction.

J hill, I didn't say "twisty" I said "twister." It has nothing to do with the act of tail boning your grab. It's a little more akward to take your back hand and grab where you'd normally grab method with your front hand. That is why I said "twister." You know the floor mat game, right? TWISTER!!!

it seems like people like to get sassy over sweeping generalizations vs. specific applications of style.

esnow, yeah right! you edited that! i'm with you though and agree with what you're saying, but i still say your body position is almost the exact same. i guess that means it can make a decent looking trick for a picture (see above shot of Joe) but not a video b/c it's kind of "twister"ish. and quit knocking Twister, my great uncle invented it, it's a good game as long as it's not all guys playing.

i haven't done a nuclear grab in 4-5 years. i quit doing them after i had been riding for a few years. i don't know why i'm taking up for them. i have thought about doing another one though. a nuke bs 180. i think it would look cool to do the grab, so the board has already done the 180 right off the wake, then just fall out of it blind while holding the grab as long as you could. i also want to say, Sean Obriens nuclear tantrum to blind was one of the coolest looking tricks i had ever seen in person. it was back when he was riding a subjekt.

Wakeboarding also has the advantage of the handle over other boardsports making grabs and tricks that are not possible on a snowboard/skateboard possible when you can use the handle to yank yourself back into a landing position. Imagine someone trying a batwing on a snowboard-ha ha ha
(and yes, I know batwing is indy)

Once again, let wakeboarding be wakeboarding

It should be said that tailboned nuclears have been done in snowboarding. years ago travis williams had one in an option ad...so it's not distinctly wakeboarding (but I am sure you (schooledrider) have other things in mind as well).

Its funny with snowboarding cuz ive seen Danny Kass do one with a back rodeo 5 about 5-6 years ago but now those guys will harrass people at mammoth for doing them. Just dont grab nuclear if any skaters, surfers, or snowboarders are around. plus they look fruity so make sure you have short shorts and a rainbow sticker

heres a beta 1 of scotty green... the 1st one he did btw

heres a good tindy 1 too