TOWER SPEAKERS?!?

what is the best bang for ur buck for tower speakers?? i want someting loud enough to hear when ur riding, but that wont cost too much...ive got an '05 210...got any suggestions?/

Loud enough to hear when you are riding...
Probably the Electrovoice Evids or a four 6x9 tower box, plenty of power to either.

If you want to hear it well you will need to go the HLCD route via NVS, Wetsounds, or Rubicon. Wetsounds Pro 80's are the cheapest, next up the ladder is NVS Addiction, at $1500+ you start to see the cream of the crop with Wetsounds Pro 485's, NVS Entity 1010, and maybe Rubi 450's.

My Wetsounds Pro 485's are the centerpiece to my stereo system. I would recommend that you spend as much as you can on the tower and skimp in the boat.

used skylon deafcon reference 4's or 5's with id drivers.... best hcld tweeter to day imo...

I'm with Mike!!!
I love my pro-80 on my Malibu.
Don't skimp on the tower!!

I ran three Evids on my tower being pushed by a Kicker 800 watt amp. I hear it loud and clear at 75'.

I have 2 Evids for sale. They worked very good. I just wanted more and put a set of Wetsounds Pro 485's up there.
http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/8/363915.html?1157042232

Pictures here
http://www.tigeowners.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2615

bill, how do u like your wetsounds? ive hear they are pretty dope and they are a little cheaper then the NVS addictions.

I have only heard a set of 10-10 NVS on someone elses boat. I really like the shape of the Wetsounds 485 compared to the NVS. Another point for me is I have an all black thing going on with my boat. I have taken almost all of the chrome and had it black powder coated, so the black housing was a big thing for me. I do not travel with the speakers on the tower so the mounting system on the Wetsounds is fantastic. Although not easy I can install or remove them by myself. As far as sound my system sounds so much better with the wetsounds compared to the Evids. As far as the Wetsounds to the NVS on my system I can not say. I do know mine can be heard and are very clear from a long way away.

bill what amp do u suggest running with the wetsounds? because i think im gona buy a pair of those

I run a Zapco 360.4 bridged at 2 channel (4ohms=180rms to each Pro80)and they are LOUD AND CLEAR!

Pro 80s. Best speakers you will get for under a grand. They are probably the only speakers that you will be able to listen to while riding and not pay $1500.

I have a 4 - 6x9 box and can hear it while riding. We have 4 Pioneer 5way 6x9's powered by a Crossfire 602 pushing almost 700 watts just to the tower. I can't hear it as well as some nvs's but I also only paid 800 bucks for speakers, box (painted), and amp. You definitely can hear it though while riding, fairly clearly as well.

I have a Kicker SX-900.2 for the tower speakers. If you contact Wetsounds anyone there is more than happy to discuss with you the amp to use and how to set it up correctly.

I've got a pair of Wetsounds Pro 80's. Couldn't be any happier.

the prosounds are very loud and a smige too bright (this is my opinion ymmv)....

the nvs tryrants are very loud and very nice finish...

check out http://www.hsetrident.com/, I put them on my malibu this spring. loud,clean,great midrange. any questions call or email jim, he's a great guy and will answer all your questions.

When it comes to tower speakers it really depends on how you intend to use them. Mine are really used to shoot music to the rider. I have 6 full range drivers in the boat (and two subs) that takes care of the boat quite well, so I let the tower speakers broadcast the music to the rider. Occassionally I also tie up in a cove with other boats and crank up the tower to give a soundstage presence to our gathering. The WetSounds 485's work well for everything I do. I believe that some of the other HLCD systems would not work as well for the general listening needs yet they do work well for sending the music to the rider. I would say the Pro-80's and some of the NVS, and other systems fall into this category. I have discussed tower speaker usage with lots of people and have been surprised how differently people use their tower speakers.

Here is how I breakdown my tower speaker use:

Riding (sound intended for the rider) - 60%
Boating (cruising while listening)- 20%
Hanging out (idling or stopped sound for all) - 20%

The parameters are drastically different for some of my friends. I know that Clubmyke does quite of surfing so his tower needs may be diffent than mine (he like his modded Rubicon 450's), because I like to hear my tunes while skiing at 34mph. Grant does not board as much and does not listen while boarding (he likes his tower box with 6x9s). Clubmyke's solution is correct for his needs, Grant's is correct for his needs, Robert and BigEd's NVS 1010s meet their needs and the Wetsounds 485's are correct for my needs. As lots of others have stated the Wetsounds Pro 80's are probably the best bang for the buck at the moment followed closely by NVS addictions if the focus is on the rider. If the focus is not on the rider all bets are off.

mikeski is right on...

btw, my comments on the wetsounds were referring to the 80`s..I have not yet to hear the pro 485's...as mikeski and others have indicated, they have a more fuller sound..

Went out Saturday to break in my new Wetsounds. They sound awesome and clear as a bell at 80' maybe even 100' . I am very happy and impressed by them.

JTW, how much did u pay for ur setup? its dope!

Go to the Wetsounds website and you will see what the speakers sell for . I won't get into specific costs for my complete system on line but you can PM me.

I have the same tower set-up as JTW, and the price (per the Wetsounds wesite) would be about $1,700 for the center pod and the two side speakers. The rest of the cost will depend on what amp you go with, whether you need tower wiring, adding an EQ (pretty essential in my opinion to fade between the tower and interior).
It's not cheap, but they sound awesome and I can listen to my tunes clearly when riding with the volume less than half way. They also sound great hanging around the boat turned down and blended with the interior speakers and sub.
My main focus was to be able to clearly hear the tunes at the rider and these do an awesome job.
Neptunes Marine audio did both of our set-ups and did a great job.

where is neptunes marine audio? and do they have a website?

Stockton Ca.

www.teamneptunes.com

Here is what I just did to my tower.

Just curious, anyone running 4 Pro 80's ever try the Massive audio P400.2 running in 2 ohms would show close to 200 RMS per Pro 80? www.massiveaudio.com Massive audio is on the wetsounds website.

JTW and Bill, Great Pics. I am glad you are happy with the speakers!

Adam,

Take a look at the Massive P800.4. It is 200x4 at 4 ohms. We have used this on 4 PRO 80's and it is awesome. We also use this to run a threesome like JTW's set up. I am using it in 2 ch mode on my 485's so ti puts out 400x2 and a 400.2 on my 80's at 200 x 2.

I would run that amp over running the 400.2 at 2 ohms. I try not to run amps in the boat at 2 ohms. Too many worries about heat etc.

Tim White
www.wetsounds.com

Interesting that you don't see more of the white wetsounds? I don't think I would have expected them to look so good on my boat. When I first took them out of the box I thought hmmmm-white? Now I would not consider another color, I think they look great on my boat. I saw a pair of black 485's on a boat that was almost all white, I think the white 485's would have looked so much better. What do you guys think?


One more advantage... Laying the wakesurfers on top of the trick clips puts them at the perfect angle, I run them up there at all speeds. Even at WOT the boards remain stable with just a couple bungee cords holding them to the tower. They are even pretty aerodynamic in this position.

One more shot...

I know XTP are getting ready to release their new pro-audio stuff.

The setup will run about 1700 bucks with the amp and LED lighting I believe.

May be worth checking out, but if looking for a more budget setup then Monster Towers Bullet setups are pretty sweet.

Just my 2 cents...

My issue comes with running 4 Pro 80's is that unless I want to run two additional sets of wires down my tower and add another thru hull connection I'm stuck running in 2ohms. I'm considering building a small amp rack for just my tower speaker amp with an exhaust/intake fans.

Mikeski--
White does look great on your boat. Although my boat is mostly white, I chose the black to tie in with the black on my Bimini top and the graphics on the sides of the boat.

Mikeski,

Black is our best seller, but we are selling a ton of white too. It's like you said. Once you get them up on the boat, you can truly appreciate them. And on an all white boat, it's the only way to go. One of our dealers in Austin was selling all black. A guy bought an all white supra and they put a threesome in all white on his boat. Next thing you know the dealer is selling all white. I hope more of the guys with white post some pics.

Adam,

I guess you could try it and see at 2 ohms and if it is a overheating issue, always run the new wire. I would run a new wire. I used an 8 pole Neutrik. I would use your current wire as a pull string and pull 8 conductor. Don't think it would be too bad.

Tim

(Message edited by wetsounds1 on September 27, 2006)

I was told by the massive audio tech people the amps run very well @ 2ohms. I guess your right , I could try it and see how it performs....the only thing is I'd proabbly have to wait untill next summer, temps are starting to drop. I've only had overheating issues on my tower speaker amp during the heat of the summer.

the all whites on ur natique look sick! do u guys think i will be able to get a better deal on the tower speakers if i wait till the boat show in january? that is in pleasontin

Thanks Cody.

Adam,
Running your tower speakers in series to a 4 channel amp strapped in mono runs the amp at design conditions. When you look at the waveforms produced from the amp you realize that those extra wires are not needed. In series they will be 8 ohms which is design load for a strapped amp. Lowering impedence raises wattage output ratings on the bench providing you have adequate current capabilities from your amp. In our boats our amps are already struggling with limited voltage so this gives them a little break.

Mike ,
I follow you on the increase in current draw,(using a 2 channel amp in 2ohm) but woulnd't a similar effect occur by having to use a bigger 4 channel amp that is capable of pushnig twice the power? On a 400x2 RMS (4 ch bridged mono poer @ 4 ohms) amp seeing an 8 ohm load only allow approx 100 watts to each of the 4 speakers?

Sorry for the thread hijack...

Four 4 ohm speakers operating on a four channel amp is the same load weather you have it wired one speaker to each channel or the speakers wired in series with the amp wired in two channel mode. If the amp is 200w X 4 @ 4 ohm the speakers will see the same 200 watts either way (as long as the speakers are the same).

This is explained very clearly on: www.bcae1.com

Wet Sounds

brit rider, u said that XTP is getting ready to release their proline audio for about 1700 with amp and LED lighting...where can i check this stuff out??

Definitely Wetsounds!!!

ur malibu looks good...how do u like ur setup??

Anyone running a JL 300/2 on a pair of Pro 80's? How do you like it?

If you have questions about XTP stuff that's coming out, call 865-981-9898.

I know or fact that there's some stuff coming out, but really dont know specifics.

further observations about coaxial hcld tower speakers(this includes nvs & wetsounds :))

if you dont want extermely loud music IN the boat then you would be better off with a non coaxial hcld design... there is a fair amount of compromise in the hcld throat design that affects the dispersion pattern (too much sound in the boat...ear plugs are needed)

the non coaxial designs have a much longer throat and a much more focused dispersion pattern that allows a "long throw" out to rider and much less in the boat (estimate 6 db quieter).. with that being said, you might want to audition both designs before you pull the trigger (nvs 1010, prosounds 485, skylon 450's etcc..

btw, the skylon 350 offers a a single 8 and a hcld in their own housing (nice design imo....)

clubmyke,
your are correct. Even with attempts to shape/direct the waves leaving the coax will leave the near field very full.
Example, 1, 2, 3, or 4 Entitys on the tower gives a ton of sound to the rider AND you can still carry on a conversation driver to observer. A single Entity and pair of Addictions, now you can't even yell loud enough.
Like Mikeski has mentioned and I always ask, What is your objective?
IMO the coax gives a very good compromise for both near and far field at a reasonable price.

clubmyke and Duane

So speakers like Fusion T-Series or any standard 6.5" speaker with a tweater will be lounder in the boat because of the design (throw of the sound) vs the HCLD which are designed to throw the sound at a longer distance? I am leaning towards the HCLD vs the Fusion even though the Fusion are a much nice looking speaker and want better funcion. If it will be quiter in the boat while they play that is the route I will go.

Coach,
The comment that clubmyke made is relative mostly to the "Pro Audio Coax" design vs the other HLCD systems using a more traditional Horn lens/Compression Driver along with traditional cone style mid bass drivers.
IMO the Fusion speakers are exellent sounding speakers. Using car audio speakers howerver (designed to sound good in a car where the listener is some 3-5 feet from the transducer, they are hard to surpass in volume and quality.....if this is your objective.
Not to put words in clubmyke's mouth (although we agree here) a Pro Audio Coax (totally different design than a car audio coax)was developed initially for stage monitors or studio use. This results in a very compact package that will bridge the gap between 5 feet and 100 feet.
Using a more traditional HLCD system will be more focused and depending on the dispersion of the lens and cone angle, will limit up close volume and direct it to 25 to 500 feet depending lagely on throat and cone diameter. Once you get into these distances however, different things need to be considered such as timing and frequecy disapation.
So, if you want loud to the rider yet be able to talk driver to observer, a traditional HLCD system is best IMO. Once you go car audio or Pro Audi Coax, you have a very delicate balanceing act of loud to the rider with to loud in the boat to talk. But some people like that!

Duane-
Thanks. That answers my question. I think I will ok with my set up on the interior of the boat, but don't want to be drowned out by the tower speakers. I want the tower speakers for riding and when we are at our beach hanging out. Now the big question which HCLD? What I am looking at is the Rubicon 350's, Wetsound 80's and NVS Addictions. My limiting factor will be how far each will drop from the mounting bar so I can have a bimini made that will not interfer with my swivel racks. I was leaning towards the Rubicon's because my stereo shop uses them.

Coach,
Of the speakers you listed, 2 are Pro Audio coax NVS Addictions and the Pro 80. The Rubicon 350 is a traditional HLCD. Remember, the "H" stands for "Horn Loaded" which defines the "Lens" that will accurately direct the Hi Freqs. Even the Pro 80 has a small lens in the grill and the NVS Addictions us a conical lens in the voice coil but niether do as good a job as a traditional horn lens.
I infer that what you want is a design like the NVS Entity 1010, Skylon Rubicon 450 (the 350 is smallish for my liking), or the Wetsound 485.
These are true HLCD systems and will not flood your interior as much as the car audio or to a lesser extent even Pro Audio Coax.
Each of these bring slightly differnt strengths to the table. As mentioned somewhere above, just like boats, TEST them...but please do yourself a favor and test them in the enviroment/conditions that you will be using them in. Sitting on a trailer curbside/parking lot doesn't get it.
Good luck

Duane- I'm looking for tower speakers also and am trying to understand this all. so from my understanding of what you said before, Pro Audio Coax will be loud in the boat as well as projected back. these are speakers like the NVS Addictions and Wetsound Pro 80's. A true HLCD will be projected back very well along with reducing the sound in the boat compared to a coax and I think these are speakers like the NVS Entity's and Wetsounds 485. so does that mean the NVS Tyrants are a combination of coax and true HLCD. let me know if I'm understanding this right. Thanks for the info

Drew,
Yes you've got it. Obviously some variations from one to the other but in general this is the case.
The NVS Tyrants have a coax AND a mid bass driver. So, if you take the idea that a true HLCD needs an attached-to-the-compression driver Horn Lens then the Tyrant would fall into the coax category.
Some may argue that a Pro Audio coax IS HLCD but I separate them based on the major performance differance in terms of near field/far field. That is not arguable.

btw, i came up with a elegant solution to overcome the overcome loud volume in the boat and get more sound out to the riders with the coaxial designs....any takers ? (serious)

(Message edited by clubmyke on October 08, 2006)

Clubmyke,

You need to stop fussing with your phase adjusting deck and spend more time behind the boat, LOL. Am I on the right track?

Mikeski

im thinkin about goin with either the wetsounds 485's or the NVS entity 1010 cause i dont need a bunch of sound in the boat cause the stock system on a 210 team is already pretty loud

clubmyke-
Let's here it! I want to know how you are going to do it.

Mikeski,
Adjusting the phase will impart a cleaner signal at distance but I've not experienced an increase in volume.

Are there any HLCD speakers that can be mounted on the Illusion tower? If not, I might switch my order to the Titan tower.

It sounds like HLCD is the only way to go if you want to listen while you rid and not kill the people in the boat

Wayne,
Not that I'm aware of....only the Pro Audio Coax.....unless you want to mount to the round crossing tube.
This is a tough one because that tube is barely 6' off the floor. Even a small box of car audio speakers will be a head banger.
I do have one customer near Chicago that insisted on some Entities on his Illusion but put them on top of the round tube. This was OK for him only because he never intends to use his bimini.

mikeski...LOL !!!! nope not phase.....

sorry this little secret will require a non competete contract, patent, and a little agreement regarding this one...it is a major step forward for this little problem in all tower speakers especially the coax hcld...

clubmyke,
Isn't this the idea we talked about last year?
If it is, no worries, I haven't told too many people about it

(Message edited by nvsairwarrior on October 09, 2006)

Wayne,

The Wet Sounds PRO 80X is the Illusion mount version of the PRO 80. Take a look at the pics above. The ones mounted to the factory locations. These installs have also added a second pair of reg PRO 80 to the crossbar. The PRO 80X or PRO 80 is a true HLCD. As some have called it a Pro Audio Coax. Although, we call the driver in our PRO 80 our PRO-Axial.

Tim

Duane,

I just got to this thread for the first time, pardon me if I misunderstand...So what you are saying is that the Entity 1010's will throw the sound out of the boat better than the Addictions? I have the Addictions and the wife often says to turn it down...am I feeling an upgrade coming on so that the rider can still hear it loud, but won't blast the wife out of the boat?

My 13 year old promptly found a T-shirt that says if it's too loud, you're too old!

(Message edited by talltigeguy on October 09, 2006)

duanne,

i have some idea's for enclosures and drivers
but this is THE ONE that i have kept to myself.......

tailgate guy... you are correct... this would allow MORE sound out to the rider and less sound in the boat.. all i need is a agreement with a top quality manufacture to pull things together..

trying to keep this understated as possible - this would really perfect hcld drivers in boat tower speakers...details to come..

Hey Larry,
Hope all is well with you and your fam.
The answer you're looking for is YES they will.
It's even easier to accomplish this now as we see towers tending to swoop more and more over the back seat (V-drive)(Traditional tower). But the physics of the sound waves in the lens controlled dispersion transducer does make it a lot easier to have a conversation driver to observer compared to a non lens-affixed compression driver based system aka Pro Audio Coax. As I mentioned above, efforts to improve on it have been made but still cannot achieve that of the true Compression Driver system. (I'm not saying it's not posssible, just not yet done)
It really depends on your objective. The coax does a great job (as you described) of loud in the boat and loud to the rider. The HLCD system will likely be even louder to the rider, but low enough at the driver/observer to converse.

here is a freebie for a 8" coaxial...

http://www.bcspeakers.com/index.php?sez=1&categoria=3&id_descrizione=32&prod otto=33

though i havent tried this myself...but from what i have heard and read b&c is a very, very reputable italian prosound company that offers audiophile sound quality...

the drawback on the coaxial would be the price..

Tim,

"The PRO 80X or PRO 80 is a true HLCD."

Could you offer a further explanation? It appears that the PRO 80's are pro-audio coax design. Duane indicated, in a non derogatory way, that pro-audio coaxials are not true HLCDs. I may have mis-understood something along the thread.

I'd be interested to hear someone describe the differences, in terms of design, between the PRO-80s and the Tyrants. Specifically the high frequency transducer. Not a who's better, just how they're different.

Both you and Duane have articulated your comments with respect for the competition. I don't mean to stir the pot with a "he said" then "you said" post. I'm just a little unclear on this discrepancy.

I normally run 500 watts RMS per side on the Wetsound PRO 485 and the Entity's by NVS. You can get away with a smaller amp but the midbass isn't there. Its does not take a lot of power to generate the horn, but you need power to get the subs to punch

Lance, what amp are you using to power the 485's and the Entity's?

My NVS 1010s are for sale. They have been on the water for approx 220 hours. Stored in doors and transported with covers on.

Anyone interested?

Lance,
What subs are you talking about?
Please don't tell me (as some car audio people have) that anything bigger than a 6.5 or 6x9 is a sub.
I've been numerous places i.e. ramps, gas docks, and have someone say "wow, that's a lot of subs up there" when looking at a pair of Entity 1010's. In those cases I understand and try to educate, but people in the audio business should know different. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and consider your comment a gramatical error.

HLCD/Pro Audio Coax:
Clubmyke has posted a link to a picture you can see of a typical Pro Audio Coax. The one link'd is an 8" with a ferrite motor and 1" throat compression driver.......no Horn Lens.
If you look under the "Products" pull down, you will see HF drivers. Here you will find Compression drivers. Under Horns you'll see a selection of Horns desgined to attach to the Compression drivers. The Horns are configured differently based on your application. When you put these two components together (Horn Lens, Compression Driver) you'll have an HLCD.
I hope that helps.

J-Rod,
did you get a buyer for your boat?

btw, the 8" b&c pro drivers ARE NOT standard size...the bolt pattern is a smige too big..

it is really too bad since their 8" driver specs are incredible..

these suckers can get LOUD, LOUD, LOUD with only a little power and can also take alot of power too... these 8" drivers could easily match a 10" in spl with the right setup..

400 W continuous program power capacity
90 – 5000 Hz response
98 dB sensitivity

Hey Craig, Tim is out of town so allow me to shed some light on your question. I will only speak about our Pro80 speaker as this is what I am seeing some confusion with.

Yes, our Pro80 is a True HLCD speaker. As Duane has clarified the difference between a typical Pro Audio Coax I think there is still some confusion about our Pro80 speaker. I am referring to “the Pro 80 has a small lens in the grill and the NVS Addictions us a conical lens in the voice coil but neither do as good a job as a traditional horn lens” statement.

If you were to take a cad drawing of our speaker and delete the 8” driver, you would have a compression horn attached to a horn lens with a flair. Vise Versa, if you were to delete the horn flair, you would have a 8” driver. We call this design our Pro-Axial. This is a proprietary design developed by Wet Sounds that is different than your standard Pro Audio Coax. I will not go into too much detail about our design other than we use this design to deliver the sound to the rider with ease while maintaining amazing sound quality and sound dispersion.

I have posted some pictures of the driver with the horn flair attached to the compression horn to help better explain.

I would encourage everyone to Please listen before they buy. Every one has different tastes and objectives when it comes to speakers.

I would also ask that if anyone has any questions about our products, please call us and ask to speak to anyone in Tech Support or visit us online for more information. Hope this helps!

Duane take it how you want to. Its a mid bass driver, in the world that I come from a lot of people call them subs or speakers. Its just slang. There is slang for everything in our world. You still need power to create Midbass. Call it a mid, woofer, or speaker.

I pretty much use Zapco and Audison amps in all my boat installs. Both companies build great amplifiers

In some of the past posts some speculated that the Pro 80's were using an inexpensive horn loaded piezo mounted in front of the low frequency driver. Since I have the Pro 485's I could not comment. Obviously from the pictures Bret has posted above you can clearly see the compression driver mounted on the back of the low frequency driver's magnet exactly as the B&C speaker and as I understand the Addictions to be done, all true co-axial speakers. The confusing part is the horn lens on the picture above which is specific to the Pro-80, I might expect this to help alleviate the problems with near field loudness?

Brett,
Thanks for providing the pictures of Wetsound's pro-axial design. I had always wondered how those worked since I assumed the horn had a very small piezo driver on the back side. I didn't realize the horn throat travels through the mid-bass driver. That's quite impressive.

Duane,
How do your designs tackle the co-axial piece?

Unfortunatly, in my area I am the only one with a pro-audio setup (Rubi450s.) About a month ago I ran down an out-of-towner on the river to take a look at his NVSs which were quite loud and full. (full in the sense of nicely matched mid-bass and HF) I'd love to hear some Wetsounds but no one around here with them.

Clubmyke,
In my home grown pro-audio setup I used 10" JBL mid-bass drivers. They were 300 watts RMS and 97db sensitivity. I pushed a true 600 watts to them and they were incredibly loud. Drawback, they weighed 20lbs each. I could only imagine 4 of the 8" b&c drivers at 98db with a true 1600 watts to them. they'd certainly accomplish loud to the tune of bloody ears. (grin) I might have to revisit the home grown proaudio idea with a set of those..

(Message edited by yosquire on October 10, 2006)

By the way: reading this topic reminded me I should post my home grown pro-audio setup. As such, it's off topic to this thread, so I posted it here:
http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3183/378472.html?1160535157

mikeski, the link showing the b&c coaxial is very typical...the obvious drawback is the very limited horn selection that you can use since it would interfere with the midbass driver (you could use a larger one with a much larger driver but 15inch woofers on the tower won't work...

I think duanne uses a emmience pro audio driver which is usa made and a very safe choice...

btw, there are a lot of european pro audio drivers that are incredible (check out the 4 lb 8 inch b&c and there are a couple others companies that offer similar specs(the european drivers have higher sound quality imo) the drawback is the sizing.....they are slightly larger...

the current offerings from the usa companies are limited to emminence unless I missed any (high power capability, high efficency, and high sound quality)...

craig, I really think a setup with the b&c`s separate drivers would be the ticket...they would get insanely loud with very little power and be very lightweight....

I will be curious to see if anyone switches over to them...