What do you want in a wakesurf specific boat

I want standard racks that will work with my glass and foam boards. I want soft sac ballast designed such that I can flip a factory switch and surf that side of the boat. I want that ballast designed so that BOTH starboard and port sides are surfable, doesn't have to be THE BEST, but I want to NOT have to lug sac's around, toss pumps overboard, relocate lead, etc. "Flip a switch and go" convience. I want that ballast system to be FAST! I don't want to pump for 40 minutes. I want CO diverting exhaust that also provides QUIET (I like Fresh Air Exhaust). I also want to be able to use the boat for fishing, entertaing clients, wakeboarding, slalom skiing...so if we have done a set of surfing and want to fish, I can quickly unload whatever ballast as we motor to the fihsin' hole I want a music system that allows the surfer to rock out, and not deafen those in the boat. I want a fiberglass swimdeck that doesn't muck up the surfwake. I want a wake FACTORY DIRECT that has a sweet transition and a mid thigh height.

What do you want?

(Message edited by surfdad on July 21, 2006)

all the above plus a pizza oven and beer on tap

Jeff + Ed + plus the video tracker system and engine that uses coolent so it doesnt run salt water through the engine when im in salt.

i just want a wake big enough for me to get down inside the curl

I want a head high wave that requires a standard surfboard with 4.5" fins! Maybe a 10 ton 40' barge style boat with a 16' beam at the transom and twin 1000hp diesels would do it. The problem with larger boats is that they dont have squared-off sterns. The sterns always slope up underneath where the props come out. They are built to minimize the wake rather than to maximize it. So you have to go custom. Im working on the plans right now. Also looking for a money partner. Minimum investment, $1,000,000. Anyone interested?

Jim, I think you have the perfect tax shelter! Let me know when the Limited Partnership prospectus is available!

Ed G, have you looked in the Overton's catalogs? They have 12V blenders and coffee makers and I swear I saw a microwave!

I think I got it!!!

Jeff-I see your a CPA. This is a little off topic but one of your qualities in a boat is to be able to entertain clients. Does this allow for a tax write off? I know the law is vague on this but just curious. I obviously need to check with my accountant for my specific situation but wondering what your take is? Thanks

My biggest desire for a wakesurf boat is CONVENIENCE! I ride goofy and the majority of my crew riders regular so I always get the shaft and end up riding backside. I want to flip a switch and have a surfable wake on either side.

Hey Nelly, The rules associated with T&E expenses are much tighter than they used to be. Especially associated with boats. The biggest thing is ordinary and necessary and contemperaneous record keeping. What I always tell clients is "don't get greedy" and most expenses are allowed. If I take a client out for a few hours during the week, we discuss how he is going to create a family limited partnership, then that % use is deductible.

For folks IN the industry, it isn't a problem...so take for example Lary Mann of Trick Boardz. He manufacturers boardz, and FAE. He would have no problem writing off the costs of operating a boat. I have to be a little more cautious because my only REAL expense associated with the operation of my boat for my practice is entertaining clients.

I'm with you too on the convience AND as you point out, riding both sides.

Jeff, what about when I take clients out to look at lakefront properties? If I do this on a regular basis, isn't the boat a tax write off?

Jim- I'm creating that head-high wake for less than 100k. I'll send photo's when she's out of the shop. Also, I vote for a single screw vs dual diesels. And there are plenty of semi-displacment hulls out there. My 36' is a near duplicate of a tourny ski boat but much bigger: 450hp (plenty of power to push the 2.5ton ballast system), and a 12'beam. I'm going to "rent" out the boat for a low fee whenever clients are on her. Should help pay for the fuel. I'm also considering using the vessel for my marketing, and increase the justification of the expense.

Hi Curtis, I just got back from surfing 2' waves at Bates Beach - boring. Ive seen the picture of you(?) doing a big off-the-lip on a long board. Looks impressive. But that particular picture shows a lot of whitewash. How clean is your wake? I look forward to seeing more pictures. Every summer I get the wakesurfing bug. The surf in Ventura goes flat, and I want to surf! Are you in CA? Any chance I could try her out? I don't mind paying for gas and rent.

Jim- I'm in Oregon. If you're in the area, give me a call. Yeah, the particular photo you're referring to is the front of the wake,and washed out from my cut. She's big and clean. I usually ride a skim board, but the photographer wanted the shots w/ a short board for surf realism. We've reached a nipple/shoulder wake w/ just over 1ton of ballast. I'm hoping w/ the new ballast system and trim tabs we'll be overhead. Don't worry, I'll be posting photos.

Hey Tom,

It sounds like you are describing the boat as the most economical and efficient way to get to the properties, that is strightforward and certainly would be an allowable deduction. For example, if the property was on an island accessible only by boat. Your useage of your boat ISN'T for entertainment purposes in this instance.

Many boat owners use their boats to entertain clients and potential customers (as I was describing in my personal situation), and this qualifies as a deduction under the entertainment expense category for your business. But be careful here, because the IRS looks very hard at entertainment expenses, so be prepared to document every item thoroughly.

The rules are straightforward for this deduction. You must have a "reasonable expectation" of deriving income or other benefit in the future as a result of your use of the boat. You must actually engage in business discussions while onboard, with the main purpose on the boat to transact business (eg you can't wakeboard for 6 hours and talk business on the ride back to the dock).

Because this is a highly abused deduction, the IRS requires you to keep full documentation for each expense, the dates of use, the location, the reason for the use, the nature of the expected benefit, and the occupations of the persons entertained, contemporaneously.

You'll be limited to deducting 50 percent of these costs, as with any other travel or entertainment expenses, and you can't include regular maintenance or depreciation for your boat. What you can include are the costs specifically related to each particular use of the boat: fuel, food and drinks are obvious, but you can also include specific expenses such as a transient mooring fee or the entry fee to a fishing tournament. For example you have a client from out-of-town that loves to fish for bass you enter in the contest and pay his fee, that's includible.

(Message edited by surfdad on July 24, 2006)

So what do you want in a tax shelter?

Jeff- What if I used her in my marketing? If I directly associate myself with my "giant" wake in ads would that not be justified for an expense?

I want more cheaper wakesurfing than with this gaz guzzler and no exhaust (with poison) infront of me!!

Ok let start draw something
Some wakesurf boat drone

So the whole discussion has gone the route of how can I avoid paying for my hobbies because they are expensive and we’ve introduced the idea of boats so large and ridiculous that only a few will ever have access, let’s get real.

I don’t think there is any replacement for displacement. You either have to add weight or have some sort of wedge device to pull the hull deep in the water.

So what do I want in a wakesurf boat?
1) A hull that can’t sink
2) A boat I can afford, but I know that it’s going to cost more than a wakeboard only boat
3) Big, easy, and fast ballast system
4) Ballast feedback – status
5) Roll indicator
6) List indicator
7) Attitude or rise indicator
8) On the fly prop rotation correction switching between regular and goofy surf wakes
9) I think I want port and starboard trim tabs, I don’t think I want a center trim tab
10) Perfect pass or equivalent
11) Still needs to have a tower to hold board racks
12) Lots of board racks for wake boards and surfboards
13) Easy to reconfigure from wakesurf to wakeboard
14) A ‘C’ or ‘G’ lounge area
15) Built-in satellite weather video link and display
16) Bimnini top
17) Speed sensitive stereo or no stereo at all
18) Diesel engine but only if I can get diesel at what ever marina I frequent
19) Two speed or variable transmission (Like MB)
20) No accommodation for fishing, I hate fishing – I blame it on my brother for catching 100, 4 inch bluegills a day and my mother for making us eat each and every one (sorry mom)
21) Heater - season extender
22) Warm water shower – season extender
23) Rain canopy – keeps crew dry in bad weather
24) Walkthrough filler – season extender
25) A retracting swim platform or one that doesn’t’ interfere with the surf wake
26) Transom covered with ¼ inch replaceable soft rubber graphic to protect from dings
27) Similar thick replaceable rubber graphics on the gunnels to eliminate dock rash and other mishaps
28) Quite running, exhaust ported below the water line.

That’s my Surf Machine.

Ed, good luck w/ your list. You're going to run into a few problems, mainly the fact each item you want costs no less than 1k, and upward of 20k (hull or diesel engine). Check e-bay, you might get lucky. I would suggest changing the dream to dry exhaust and never smell fumes again.

Instant Wave machine at www.ronjonsurfpark.com is nearly ready to go :-D

http://www.ronjonsurfpark.com/news_images/7-11-2.jpg

Curtis what do you mean by dry exhaust?

Ed, you have to have the swim deck, that is a portion of the safety features when wakesurfing. So, no retracting feature, but a cut-out on the sides would allieviate the dragging in the water issue.

Hey Ed, the reverse rotating prop idea isn't everything. Holmsey's Avy didn't have it and the wakes on both sides were pretty close, my Tige throws a wake that is pretty close on both sides and I've seen some 'bu's and Sangers that toss a pretty good wake on both sides. I think there is something peculiar to the Enzo where that becomes effective. I know on the Avy we just rode, the Starboard side was better, IMO, than the port side because the transition was smoother.

LOL! What did you have in mind to NOT accomodate fishing? Something like a cattle prod that that zapped anyone on the boat with a fishing pole in their hands?!

Dentard, the key is what the boat is used for. If it is a prototype and you are in the business of selling "something" then the boat isn't used for T&E purposes, it's equipment. However, if principally you are out wakesurfing on it, having a blast and then snap a picture, it's your hobby and only the direct costs of useage can be deducted.

Maybe I can clarify. If "you" are a manufacturer of Ed's surf switch and you have determined that the best way to display the product is attached to a boat and you drag that boat to trade shows and competitions for DISPLAY PURPOSES only and you almost never actually put it in the water. You are using it as a piece of equipment and NOT for T&E purposes, so you can fully deduct all costs associated with the piece of equipment.

However, if it REALLY is your personal boat and you're stretching to make it business related then only the direct costs are deductible. It's pretty straightforward and folks know if they are pushing for the loophole.

Jeff, I wasn't specifically describing a reverse rotating prop, rather something else that counters the effect of prop rotation.

No I'm not going to zap anyone, I'm just not going to add a live bait well or go out of my way to make my boat a fishing boat. The exception to that rule would be if ballast systems are outlawed, then I would install a 205 gallon live bait well.

Jeff- Thanks for the info. I want to avoid IRS problems.
Ed- I was referring to exhaust stacks like a tug boat, or semi truck.
Petr- Is this the park in Florida? I'm about to check out the site. I would prefer having my own wave pool, but the lottery hasn't paid me yet.

Petr, Yeah, that's the ticket for a real inland surfer. I read into this topic a year ago and enjoyed their ability to change the wave by moving the pool's floor. I wonder how the pecking order will be established! Let's hope they have good security.

Hey Curtis, my family and I were in Florida in April and I got to try out Typhoon Lagoon (Disney World) at maximum size. It was a fun take-off on a 5' face followed by the worlds mushiest 3' shoulder leading into a 2' mushy closed out shorebreak. Wakesurfing is way better. Unless Ronjon substantially improves the actual wave generation technology (i.e. more than one wave at a time) as opposed to the bottom contour, they'll end up with a dud!

Let me clarify. Typhoon Lagoon sends out only one wave at a time. There is no rythum of waves. That one wave pushes against flat calm water, which is a huge mass of inertia. Therefore, the wave is super mushy. It wouldn't make much difference what the bottom contour was. Wakesurfing, on the other hand, is like surfing the 2nd wave of a set. The bow pushes out the first wave and creates a trough in front of the wave you're on, similar to the ocean. Just one man's observation.

Jim- their project should out-do any other type of wave pool. We'll see. I'm just going off of what info they had on the net a year+ ago. Sounded impressive, and I was ready to fly down. We'll see.

Ed, after being out on Holmsey's Avy, I'm thinking the prop rotation in the "opposite" rotatio can be positive. Theroretically, there should be an increase in the depth the hull achieves when listing to the side of the rotation...but in the instance of that boat, the LH prop rotation actually helped the starboard side as (for my tastes) the port side was too steep, IMO. There was almost no difference in height on either side, but the transition on the starboard side was much smoother.

On my Tige, the height and transitions are virtually identical on the port and starboards sides...however, I can add more weight to the port side due to the drivers seat and design of the starboard side storage.

At least on my boat, the prop rotation (save for when we lowered the pitch of the prop) has a neglible effect on the surf wake.

I'm guessing that the steepness of the Avy hull compensates for some prop rotation effects. I understand that at wakeboard speeds the AVY is sensitive to weight distribution. If the boat isn't balance well the results is one clean wake and one foamy wake. This effect works against wakeboarders, but at surf speeds this must be working for you.

On my Lightning the goofy wake is a point of frustration for many of my crew, most of which are goofy.

I have finally figured out how to ride my goofy wake heelside, but it took a few tries, and I need to work on it. Man switch is really hard for me to pull off. I'm thinking that an interesting wakesurf event would require demonstration of several skills including surfing both wakes, riding switch, and then ride for speed. The whole speed event could drive board design, a specialized class of boards for speed. - OK Now I'm off topic.

Another amazing idea:
Watch Moving Reef video at www.waveloch.com
http://www.wipo.int/ipdl/IPDL-IMAGES/PCT-IMAGES/09102003/US0237610_09102003_pf_fp.x4-b.jpg
http://www.wipo.int/ipdl/IPDL-IMAGES/PCT-IMAGES/09092005/US2002037610_09092005_pf_fp.x4-b.jpg
http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?KEY=03/51479.031009

big carbon toy with helipad
http://www.mshipco.com/images/01ss.jpg

Ed, I think you're still on topic, but thread piracy isn't uncommon here - especially amongst friends.

Yesterday we were in the Lake Washington wakesurf contest. Last year they used an X-star to pull it and the surf wake was pretty bad. Jason from Crystal Pierz brought an '06 Enzo that was manufactured at Fineline's North Carolina plant, rather than the Califnoria plant.

That boat had a very nice port wake, but only above 12 mph+ below that speed and the step in the wake appears, the starboard side wake was - surfable, but required turning into the wake to clean up the face. Starboard weighting is NOT the forte of the Enzo.

I have found that riding at the speeds required by the Enzo mandates a slightly larger board. If you're barely riding your board at 10.5 and then start TRYING to ride at 13mph, it's hard or impossible, but adding just a few inches in length provides enough surface area to maintain speed.

I'm pretty good backside, although I'm no star. I can do top and bottom turns pretty much endlessly backside and I'm WORKING on floaters and lip slides.

I can also ride swicth backside - and it is hard for me also. With regular backside the use of your rear foot is the same, but riding SWITCH BACKSIDE, I find that I'm still wanting to use my front foot to slide turns - which typically just results in my falling.

I agree with you Ed, in a contest, the BEST surfer should NOT be a one trick pony. If all you can do is one trick with tremendous amplitude you are not as accomplished as the surfer that can do a bevy of 15 tricks, but with lesser amplitude. I'd think if the rules, in a competition, required that each...lets say in intermediate thru advanced divisions, must include 1/4 of their routine being ridden backside you'd quickly determine who had the largest "bag of tricks".