Releasable bindings

I was just thinking. Why hasn't a wakeboard mfg produced a board with a binding plate that allows the bindings to release from the wakeboard? I am not talking one by one but as a whole unit. Goode skis has a release system using strong hook and loop material and when a certain load is reached according to the persons height/weight with a plate/hook and loop proportional to what is needed, the whole binding plate will release. I bet this would reduce knee injuries in the event that you fall forward/twisting in a motion that wouldn't normally have your feet fall out of the bindings...
I mean I guess it wouldn't be too different, but also in event of a faceplant, both feet would come off at the same time vs the possibility of a one foot in one foot out scenario. I guess the only thing holding mfgs back is the custom attributes this technology would have. It would be expensive and I guess it would be difficult to save weight and have a totally rigid plate that had a stance of 22.5 inches, but Goode skis have come down in price in the past few years, they are very light, and the bindings are very supportive and comfortable from what I am told... Just something I was pondering that I hadn't read about or heard anyone mention yet? Any ideas? Think wakeboarding will ever go this route?

Imo there are not that many riders blowin their knees out considering the number of riders that are wakeboarding. I think its a small percentage. I would say if more riders would wear knee braces, before they blew their knees out there would be alot less injurys to the knees. IMO it would make a hudge differance.

Look how many pros are wearing braces. Some are even wearing two braces.

Also, some people believe that wearing braces pre injury can weaken the area making you more prone to injury.

Duane, just go bigger. My feet both leave the bindings in a hurry when I plant my face. Happens a couple of times a week.

IMO though I would say it is the #1 injury for the sport, pro or amatuer. I know blowing out my knee is my greatest fear. And Ehlers Silk is right. Wearing a knee brace to prevent injury actually promotes an injury. Don't do it kiddies, if you want prevention, hit the weights.

They have tried alot of releasable bindings in snowboarding. None is on the market and no company is working on one.
I konw of alot of injuries in wakeboarding but I know of none that wouldn't have happened with a releasable binding. With my bindings I either stay in with both feet or I get out with both feet.

Adam hit it on the head, to prevent injuries, strengthen the area around and supporting the knees with exercise. Only wear supportive braces if you are told to by a doctor. That is why they are called supportive braces, not preventative braces.

Where's Doctor Octagon?

Just wrap your knee in bubble wrap and you'll be fine. If you want to tape an aspirin to it too, that might help.

I personally ride in pants made out of Nerf.

There was a snowboarding company that toyed with the idea in the late 90's, I wish I could remember it. I think the article was in Snowboarder which included why the product flopped. I think there was a large problem in releasing at bad times, like take-off.

Why not hit the weghts, AND where braces? I understand maybe that if you where them all the time, your knees will not be used to supporting there own weight, but if you hit the weights then they will be strong and if you where braces it seems like it would stop from hyper-extending or going side to side.

I agree Chris. We all no that just hitting the weights is not going to keep you from blowin out youre knees, I know many of riders that hit the weights everyday and it dident keep them from blowin out their knees. On the other hand I know many riders that hit the weights and wear braces on thier knees, and have never had any knee problems. IMO do both and you should me fine.

I think that the biggest reason for not designing releaseable bindings is that there are too many different directions which you get torqued in. Releasable bindings are usually designed to release in only a few directions. Due to the stance of the average rider and the types of tricks performed, most people crash at an infinite number of different positions and angles. Not to mention that the rider applies force to the board in a variety of directions when cutting, spinning, flipping and landing. Combine this with the fact that the two bindings are placed so far apart that designing them to release at the same time would be incredibly difficult.
Releasable bindings wouldn't solve all the knee and ankle injuries either. I know alot of people tear their ACL's by just landing too hard such as landing straight legged on the crest of a double up. Releaseable bindings really wouldn't solve this at all. As mentioned above, injuries would probably get worse if only one binding released. Maybe a better option would be to move to a fully nonreleasable hardshell similar to a snowboard where you are fully unable to come out of your binding which is totally unable to come off your board.

Check out this previous post on the topic.
http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65919/188693.html

I have very strong legs and knees, blew my knee out, and a releasing binding like the one described above wouldn't have prevented it.

Being strong will help, wearing a brace may help, but by doing both you are NOT guaranteed to not blow out a knee.

I raced motocross for 9 years week after week, and always wore evs knee braces everytime i rode. I never once had a knee injury. Now i lift 5 days of the week and run 3 days a week. I Dont wear knee braces wakeboarding and this summer i flat-landed a normal w2w and my front leg was locked............ouch! I dont know, just my 2 cents.

I rode motocross for a while, and right now, with a blown out knee, I'd be more likely to go spin a few laps rather then go wakeboarding. I'm not saying that motocross isn't hard on your knees, but I think wakeboarding puts more stress on 'em.

Dude, you don't need to wear a helmet, it just makes you skull weak. You should have a strong enough skull to prevent fracture without a helmet. If you wear a helmet, you just weaken you skull and make it more prone to injury. Yea...that makes total sense!

If I had enough $$$ and enough Balls (the ridicule is huge, you pussy!) to wear knee braces, I WOULD!

wow, I haven't started a thread before that had this many replies in this short of a time. I realize that the idea I had wouldn't prevent all impact related injuries. But what I was talken about is the same idea as Goode skis binding system. Both of you feet are attached to a plate, and that plate is attached to the ski with hook and loop material... I am not sure which motion causes it but I've seen my friend cause the ski to release... If there was some way to have a plate that both bindings attached to and that plate released when you had a hard fall... then maybe there would be a slightly less number of injuries
For the record I don't know which type of fall promotes the ACL injury most often but any fall where one foot comes out and the other doesn't could hurt knee, leg, ankle or all of the above and thats the system Im talking about. The system would be difficult to make and have correct release issues but whatever...

and I am not downplaying strong legs and being in shape, I tore my mcl skiing and had NO problems wakeboarding. In cold water in the spring my mcl would tighten up, a factor of nervousness and a factor of cold water but all season I had no problems. I am a firm believer in lifting weights and staying in shape, just saying this type of system could possibly prevent some types of injuries... I suppose some agree and some don't

also, I do NOT agree with wearing knee braces as a preventative measure, I didn't wear a brace during my mcl recovery or after it healed and I will NOT wear one now....

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quote:

Dude, you don't need to wear a helmet, it just makes you skull weak. You should have a strong enough skull to prevent fracture without a helmet. If you wear a helmet, you just weaken you skull and make it more prone to injury. Yea...that makes total sense!

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How many joints do you have in your brain?









How much cartilage? How many ligaments?

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quote:

Dude, you don't need to wear a helmet, it just makes you skull weak. You should have a strong enough skull to prevent fracture without a helmet. If you wear a helmet, you just weaken you skull and make it more prone to injury. Yea...that makes total sense!

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How many joints do you have in your head?









How much cartilage? How many ligaments?

My knees have been hurt on landings, not crashes. Releasable bindings wouldn't have helped.


On the braces issue, If you supplement your body's weakness with an aid or brace to give it strength, you will keep your body from developing it's own strength.

Braces may help in the short term, but hender development in the long term. Wear a brace after coming back from injury is OK, but you should slowly get to a point were the joint is stable and strong. I'd never wear any brace or wrap, unless recovering from an injury.

NO BRACE IS GONNA PREVENT INJURY!

(Message edited by jeff359 on November 17, 2005)

I think some kind of releasable plate is a great idea. Serious damage could be caused if one leg comes out and the other stays in the binding. It has happened to me with some pain but nothing serious. I figure there has to be a better way of releasing from the board than the foot contort method. It would also allow for some adjustment levels to how easy it is to come off of the board. As far as knee braces go, sorry to continue on the thread jack, but getting one because pros wear them, friends wear them or people on this site say they helped seems like a bad idea. Only a doctor can tell you what you need. Check out this link

http://familydoctor.org/490.xml

Some sentences from the site I find pertinent to this conversation:

"Remember, the need for a brace should be determined by your doctor."

"Braces don't seem to work well to stop knee injuries from happening. Get your doctor's advice if you want to try a knee brace. "

"Knee braces are the least important part of preventing knee injuries or getting better after an injury."

To everybody that is still riding, wish I was there, Michigan is cold...

A binding that releases in all directions: What a concept, kinda like ski bindings? They've been doing that for years. I think the biggest single reason is that the board would be loose and would become capable of nailing you in the head or where-ever. This is alreay something to be aware of with a skate, but what if only one binding pops? Even more chance you'll be screwed.

I still don't think everyone is grasping what I am trying to explain...
This is NOT like releasable snow ski or snowboard bindings, one foot would NOT release without the other, the plate would not release on take off...

I wish the thread wasn't jacked so much because ppl have not considered what I was saying, they were just replying to whatever everyone else was saying about knee brace BS and all that garbage...
Here's what Im trying to convey... blain got it...
http://www.goode.com/wspowershell.html#boots
Now... I think it would be a difficult implementation and much R&D would need to be done and NO it will not prevent ALL knee injuries, but I can think of atleast a few scenarios that this technology would help out in. With the interloc hook and loop material used in GOODE skis say if you faceplant, sometimes both feet don't come out at the same time while boarding, if both feet are attached to a plate that can release from the board, both feet at the same time release(feet still in bindings which are still at the same stance at which you ride)..., or if you land tip first, its gonna wanna pull your front foot out of regular bindings, which can lead to ankle injuries to the front foot or leg, knee or ankle injuries to the back leg/foot as well if the front foot does release without the back foot..., with this the whole plate would release. Say you land tail heavy, compressing your rear knee, the weight distribution would cause your front foot to pull up on the plate causing it to release (hopefully before your rear knee takes the whole blow), say you land off balance falling forward/twisting, the plate would release.
This isn't the answer to leg, ankle and knee injuries, but it might be possible and it might help... I guess it would open up the possibility of the wakeskate syndrome but who knows...
Will we ever see this technology boarding? Probably not unless someone wants to pony up big bucks for R&D and then pay big bucks to have it implemented...
Just an idea I had kicking around, maybe I'll develop it a bit when Im out of school...

And for the record, knee injuries happen, I am not too concerned, I lift weights regularly and I think I go decently large at times... knowing how to fall is another important part of riding in any boardsport/skiing but Im just thinking this could save some pain for some people

what about the above poster who locked out his front leg. The damage would already have been done then you would of released. And I agree with Jeff, wearing a brace when not need is just a crutch for your body and a brace still won't prevent injury, just restrict your body's natural movements. And don't be a knucklehead Brah, wear a helmet, knee braces don't save lives.

like I said, my idea pertaining to this technology would not prevent against that type of injury.
So you say, then why bother with this technology... well you were gonna injure your knee with or without the technology, but the scenarios I have thought of so far would be aided by this technology, Im sure there are others. Right now I see no downfall to this technology. You can still get hurt using it, but it isn't going to increase that risk in my eyes...

and for the record, I am not looking for an answer to every type of knee injury possible on a wakeboard... just some possible knee/leg/ankle injuries that could be prevented

Duane - I understand what you are trying to get at with the idea of releasable bindings. I slalom and trick with a skitec hardshell and I'm pretty familiar with all the different waterski releasable bindings. The first misconception that you have is that releasable binding lessen the likelihood of injury. If you talk to many people, hardshell bindings actually increase the chances of injury or at least increase the chance that if an injury occurs it will be more likely to be a bad injury than with soft boots. I've talked with many people that have injured themselves on the good setup. The primary issue has been breaking either their rear ankle or compressing their front ankle and/or shin to breaking. The cause of these injury's was hard "out the front" falls where the forward pressure is enough to fully release the plate from the bindings. Due to the length of the Goode plate design, the plate will release to the side with much less leverage than is required to release to the front (i.e. from back foot to front foot). A lot of this is due to the use of velcro as a mounting method. For anyone not familiar, industrial velcro is really strong stuff with more than enough holding power to attach a binding. If you wanted to experiment with the design though, you could mount a two bindings to a large plate and only apply velcro underneath the bindings and not along the whole plate. This reduced connection area may allow the leverage from one side releasing to pull the opposite side from the board.

What I think would be really cool is if someone could design a board with an integrated mechanical release. The tension from inserting one boot would hold the other boot in place. Once one boot released, the tension would be released from the other boot automatically releasing it. It might be a little challenge though to keep the tension between the two sides constant while applying varying torsional forces to the board such as when cutting and landing.

Finally, as for the comment that releasable boards could provide a hazard when they come off, there's a simple solution. The first thing you learn when riding skis with releasable bindings is to cover your head as soon as you realize you've released otherwise you're going to get a nice little gash. (Learned that one the hard way a few times.)

A.J.

alright good point on the Goode system. I was unaware with the injuries people were sustaining as a result of the hard shell boots. I do like the sound of your idea as releasable bindings... Will we ever see em, who knows but I just thought it was an interesting idea. Will I experiment with it... maybe sometime in the future when I have time/money to modify boards and bindings...