Biden for Prez

Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier

I am going to feel pretty smug when you have have to pop off 20 to 30k for a battery replacement.

Sorry to spoil your schadenfreude party but the warranty on the battery is 8 years and 192k, I turn my cars over every 4-5 years so yeah, won't be a problem for me.

Originally Posted by ralph

Sorry to spoil your schadenfreude party but the warranty on the battery is 8 years and 192k, I turn my cars over every 4-5 years so yeah, won't be a problem for me.

Sounds like you are one of the elites then. The other 99% do not have the luxury you do. Eventually the warranty will have to be drawn down to. Companies are willing to take a loss to get into the market until they are the market.

Kalifornia has a elitist mindset like yours. now 47% of the countries homeless reside in kalifornia. Everyone here is pushed to have to upgrade cars by penalizing those who can not afford to have constant vehicle turnover. They also do that to the trucking industry. Guess what. The ports are full of ships and no one to deliver from the ports to the rest of the country.

Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier

Eventually the warranty will have to be drawn down to. Companies are willing to take a loss to get into the market until they are the market.

It's amazing how quickly you fabricate things to support your narrative. Tesla has one of the lowest warranty costs in the market and make double the gross margin of VAG, Ford & GM. It's all in the annual filing just go and look before you make yourself look foolish.

Originally Posted by ralph

It's amazing how quickly you fabricate things to support your narrative. Tesla has one of the lowest warranty costs in the market and make double the gross margin of VAG, Ford & GM. It's all in the annual filing just go and look before you make yourself look foolish.

My wife has a direct friend who had to have the battery replaced in their tesla for $20,000. Not a narrative. Direct knowledge of a fact.

Tesla is not going to outfit the world. Other manufacturers have to be involved. The government subsidizes these efforts. Tesla also received all sorts of tax credits and so did buyers of their cars. They also took over a Joint GM/ Toyota plant in Fremont for cheap (I worked right across the highway from that plant for a few years). If electric cars were as great as you say they are, then they would automatically take over as people are always looking for a cheap great thing. The reality it is neither. You would not have a powerful government trying to fund and screw their citizens to go that direction if they were great, cheap and convent. They are not.

How about you give us the low down of how electric cars do when it is 0 degrees outside?

Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier

If electric cars were as great as you say they are, then they would automatically take over as people are always looking for a cheap great thing.

Tesla is growing at a compound growth rate @ 50% per year when Toyota, Ford GM are contracting. So yeah, the market has spoken.

Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier

How about you give us the low down of how electric cars do when it is 0 degrees outside?

Older ones loose up to 50% of their range below 0ºC but the newer ones with heat pumps fitted are way better, maybe 20% loss. EV's are just at the start of their development, as an industry they are getting better every year, both in terms of cost of manufacturer and performance.

Originally Posted by ralph

Tesla is growing at a compound growth rate @ 50% per year when Toyota, Ford GM are contracting. So yeah, the market has spoken.


Older ones loose up to 50% of their range below 0ºC but the newer ones with heat pumps fitted are way better, maybe 20% loss. EV's are just at the start of their development, as an industry they are getting better every year, both in terms of cost of manufacturer and performance.

Still a very very small part of total car sales. Nice try on the percentage thing. 100% of 1 is only 2.

Great for the EV market. That solution simply does not work for everyone. Again. City dwellers going to have extension cords running all over the streets? Everyone huddled around the local charge spot having to schedule a charge time? 10 hours across one state driving 70 MPH. People are not interested in adding hours to a long drive. EV solution could work for my wife and possibly me for commuting. My wife nominally stays around town. could be a good solution for her. I want my Truck. I do more than just commute. I think EV is a good supplement, however it is not the one size fits all solution.

Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier

Still a very very small part of total car sales. Nice try on the percentage thing. 100% of 1 is only 2.

Great for the EV market. That solution simply does not work for everyone. Again. City dwellers going to have extension cords running all over the streets? Everyone huddled around the local charge spot having to schedule a charge time? 10 hours across one state driving 70 MPH. People are not interested in adding hours to a long drive. EV solution could work for my wife and possibly me for commuting. My wife nominally stays around town. could be a good solution for her. I want my Truck. I do more than just commute. I think EV is a good supplement, however it is not the one size fits all solution.

EV's would be perfect if we swapped the entire US fleet of mail trucks to EV.s. Charged overnight and used daily, School busses the same. Lots of ways to make advances that makes sense today.
We already have EV's that have over 500 horsepower and 300 mile range, the improvements are coming quickly. But feel free to sit there and think up all the problems we will surpass w/o a sweat. How long did you wait to get a cell phone? Still have a landline? FYI, I still love my truck too, cant live w/o out it. Also researching an electric motor swap for one of my classic VW's.

Originally Posted by ralph

It's amazing how quickly you fabricate things to support your narrative. Tesla has one of the lowest warranty costs in the market and make double the gross margin of VAG, Ford & GM. It's all in the annual filing just go and look before you make yourself look foolish.

your model 3 battery is 15k. and if you over fast charge, it voids the warranty. how do i know. my neighbor has to drive 120 miles each way for work, didn't have to for 20 years, but they moved his contract from charlotte to columbia sc. he has been fast charging, extremely expensive, and after 1 yr his battery will not hold a full charge. they said, to bad so sad. So now he has a 1k car payment, pays crazy fast charging fees and has a car that can barely get him one way.

What a deal! So he cant trade it in, no one wants it, and has bought a used car to drive while his tesla rots in his driveway. I told him to run it into a tree, it will catch on fire and he can be done with it!

Originally Posted by ralph

Sorry to spoil your schadenfreude party but the warranty on the battery is 8 years and 192k, I turn my cars over every 4-5 years so yeah, won't be a problem for me.

How long does it take someone to buy a $20,000 Hundyi and pay $5 a gallon a gas cost wise vs a $50,000 to $80,000 tesla and $30,000 to $50,000 charging system?

Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier

How long does it take someone to buy a $20,000 Hundyi and pay $5 a gallon a gas cost wise vs a $50,000 to $80,000 tesla and $30,000 to $50,000 charging system?

Hard to find a $20K Hyundai, and its like comparing an entry level Volkswagen to a high a powered Porsche, that and the charging system also powers the entire household, virtually for free. Does Hyundai pay your elec bill for 20 years on each purchase?
Why dont you go buy a horse?

Originally Posted by 95sn

Hard to find a $20K Hyundai, and its like comparing an entry level Volkswagen to a high a powered Porsche, that and the charging system also powers the entire household, virtually for free. Does Hyundai pay your elec bill for 20 years on each purchase?
Why dont you go buy a horse?

Horse is more expensive than a car to operate and less convenient.

I have not heard of anyone purchasing a home system for $10k. Most things around here are rentals so all you are doing is paying a different PG&E person and you take all the risk mechanical wise. You also have to find someone to take over your rental if you sell.

Just looked it up. The MSRP for the cheapest Tesla is $44,990 for the model 3 (sure that is nothing included but base car and battery), $58,990 for the Y, $99,990 for the S, and $104,990 for the X.

Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier

Horse is more expensive than a car to operate and less convenient.

I have not heard of anyone purchasing a home system for $10k. Most things around here are rentals so all you are doing is paying a different PG&E person and you take all the risk mechanical wise. You also have to find someone to take over your rental if you sell.

Just looked it up. The MSRP for the cheapest Tesla is $44,990 for the model 3 (sure that is nothing included but base car and battery), $58,990 for the Y, $99,990 for the S, and $104,990 for the X.

I have 3 Direct Friends that have solar systems all under 10K. You dont need to fall for the "rental" either. You sound like a DeltaDebbieDowner on everything you dont understand. Whats there to be afraid of?

doug said horses feed millions, we use them every day. Never heard of a cowboy?

yes, horses and other animals are still a large part of the 3rd world order, or they would not have food. They use them to farm and feed millions of people in foreign lands. We use them everyday, in our country to heard cattle. Its called a cowboy! We can easily go back to horses or human power, although your lefties friends would have a problem with the POOP.

Originally Posted by 95sn

You sound like a DeltaDebbieDowner on everything you dont understand. Whats there to be afraid of?

He's afraid that if he stops buy gas he will suddenly turn into a liberal.

Originally Posted by ralph

He's afraid that if he stops buy gas he will suddenly turn into a liberal.

Na. I am not interested in sitting over at Target like all those other people hanging onto their chargers for hours a week.

That is another issue. Most cities, you would not want to be hanging in a known spot for hours a week in your expensive ride. You will get robbed at some point.

Originally Posted by 95sn

I have 3 Direct Friends that have solar systems all under 10K. You dont need to fall for the "rental" either. You sound like a DeltaDebbieDowner on everything you dont understand. Whats there to be afraid of?

doug said horses feed millions, we use them every day. Never heard of a cowboy?

And how much of their own labor did they do. Are they on their house? Are the properly permitted? Does it actually offset all energy (I know it does not, as they have to use energy at night). You live in the southern part of the country and it is warm and sunny hundreds of days a year. The rest of the country is getting snow this week.

Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier

And how much of their own labor did they do. Are they on their house? Are the properly permitted? Does it actually offset all energy (I know it does not, as they have to use energy at night). You live in the southern part of the country and it is warm and sunny hundreds of days a year. The rest of the country is getting snow this week.

Yes, we did the labor. Why double the cost if I can lift a 35 lb solar panel? 2 on the roof, one is on stands at the edge of property. 100% permitted. We pay about $3/mo at the river house. Solar panels actually work more efficiently in cold weather, as long as not covered in snow. Educate yourself debbiedeltadowner.

Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier

How long does it take someone to buy a $20,000 Hundyi and pay $5 a gallon a gas cost wise vs a $50,000 to $80,000 tesla and $30,000 to $50,000 charging system?

The average price of a new car is $47k and the Model 3 is $45k. A solar system for a house is about $10k.
The total cost of ownership of a Model 3 is less than a Toyota Camry

Originally Posted by ralph

Sorry to spoil your schadenfreude party but the warranty on the battery is 8 years and 192k, I turn my cars over every 4-5 years so yeah, won't be a problem for me.

perfect example of the hypocrisy of the carbon footprint. your 4 yr flip has a larger footprint than a gas car. Plus the remaining cathode powders that will be in the water system when millions of batteries are left to rot.

I am not against electric cars, am against the BS. the propaganda is off the charts. In the 70's we were facing global cooling. In 1999 Kerry warned florida would be under water. Its all BS. WE can clean up, and have cleaned up emissions while developing better, cleaner tech, while still using fuel, at manageable costs. We choose not to, due to the lefties cult green religion. FACT!