Centurion: Not Wakesurf Ready

It seems like Centurion is only going half way with it's commitment to Wakesurfing. Its nice that they have developed Sideswipe and Rightsurf and a great hull for the sport but they are seriously lacking in the most important ingredient: BALLAST. All they offer are these itty bitty 400# tanks- one in the center of the boat (where its not needed) and 2 in the rear. I asked about a Gravity 3 ballast system and with an integrated 1000# bow sac and an Enzo sac on each side in the rear. They told me to put in a bow cushion ,. it would be an expensive custom order because the boat is built from the ground up with them. To put an integrated bow sac in an existing boat would require holes being drilled in the deck etc... Anyway,. I am disappointed in the company that is supposed to be heralding the sport. It's 2008, I am done messing around with sacs and pumps (that's what Centurion suggested). If I am paying 55-65K for a boat I want to push 3 buttons and be ready to surf in 10 minutes.

hey jim...i ride behind a 07 24 enzo...i have a enzo sac on the port side.i fill all the factory ballast and the enzo sac,its all hidden.no sacs n pumps and my wave is 4 foot.thats just with 3 people in the boat..when ten people are on it,i take weight out of the ballast to compensate.long story short,enzo hull allows for less weight to make its wave.any more,youd be wasting gas.literally

Jim, I kind of know what you mean but...

The best ever wake that I’ve surfed on is a Centurion Avalanche. I’m chomping at the bit to surf behind an Enzo.

I have been loading my boat way beyond rated limits to get a reasonably good wake. That’s why I’m selling my boat. An Enzo sack is only 1,300 pounds. I’ve never surfed behind an Enzo but I understand that the Enzo Sack is all you need on that hull. I’ve literally put twice that weight in my boat and I’m sure the results aren’t as good.

Look at the Avalanche and Enzo hulls and compare them to other wake hulls. You’ll note that the Centurion hulls have a deeper V. I think that the deeper V is a key element generating the right bow-wake for surfing. When compared to a flat wake hull the Centurion hulls give up some storage space. In another brand boat you might put larger ballast sacks in the space consumed by the V.

There are other brands that offer more ballast. However, the Enzo and Avalanche hulls still make the best surf wakes when weighted properly. So far ballast is the best solution. I’m aware of two other systems that could potentially replace or augment traditional ballast. I have my own ideas too, I know you do too.

As far as a good from the factory wakesurf ballast I know what I would do. I’d set up my system to fill and cross-fill. When I turn on the switch to fill the port I want the starboard to come on too and a starboard-to-port cross to come on. That way the port will fill twice as fast. Then when I switch to goofy I want to turn on the starboard, a port cross-to-starboard and a starboard purge. That set up would cost little to implement and would cut the fill and switch time in half with few extra resources. As far as tank size goes the stock ballast in the Avalanche is all you need for wakeboarding. The Switch Blade makes the wakeboard wake huge.

I think that not only Centurion, but other manufacturers as well could load up more wakeboard ballast than they do. I suspect one reason they don’t do more is related to capacity plate rating and liability.

Hey waterdog, I thought you were a big Master Craft supporter?

Thanks for the input guys. Ed, cross-filling sounds like a great idea, especially when you are talking huge stern sacs, a big time saver. I will definitely go for a system like that.

Is the 23' Enzo deeper than the 22' Avalanche hull? Is there a big difference in a 23' Enzo and a 24' hull for wakesurfing? I see price and weight are similar. Are there any (hull) model years to avoid if buying used?

I think the Enzo is less deep than the Avalanche.

I don't have any first hand experience on the 23 and the 24. I have heard that even though the hulls are similar, the wakes are somewhat different. Either should be very good. For me an Enzo is a stretch. I can't imagine needing the additional people space the 24 offers. I’d save the $ and get a SV230. I know that I’d be quite happy with an Avalanche.

The hulls should be the same from year to year. If you don't think that a first model year is a good one you might avoid a 2004 Enzo SV230 and you might avoid the 2005 Enzo SV240. To be honest I wouldn’t have a problem with a first year boat.

With Pivotal Designs coming out with a surf specific Switch Blade I’m thinking that the Switch Blade might be the way to go if you can swing the extra cash. However, the new Blade won’t be available for a while.

Where are you getting pricing? Just surfing the web or has MSRP been published? I haven't seen Centurion publish there numbers.

Will the surf specific switchblade replace the extra ballast? I am wanting to take out my factory tanks and put enzo sacs in there. I'm really trying to get the starboard side dialed in. I think it's gonna be hard putting the enzo sac in the starboard side. The port side looks to be no problem. I've 300lbs of sand in sealed canvas bags to move around. If the switchblade would eliminate all that, I'd be on that thing real quick.

With out seeing first hand its hard too say. What Scott said led me to believe that no other ballast would be needed. If that's the case it seems like the quest for flip of the switch goofy/regular surf set up might not be too far away.

My biggest wakesurf issue is switching between regular and goofy sides.

a river runner..yes mastercraft hooked up ascboards dallAS with an 07 x 45..cant say enough about the boat or the texas mastercraft dealership that took care of us like never before..sasser and all those guys really know how to spread the southern hospitality.the boat was beutiful and always started.that being said,its my belief that when you spend a hundred thousand on a wakeboard boat,their is no such thing as a bad boat..anyways,since your keepn tabs,my current favs go as follows.24 enzo,236 nautique,x45,24supra,malibu,calebra,hydrodyne,mbsp orts,moomba,tige then any big boat,carver,trojan,hatteraSS,burger,azimute,egg harbour ect.peace

"only going half way"!!?

You should be thanking them for all they do for the wakesurfing industry. They do a lot more than just build boats.

One question for you though, what would the coast gaurd have to say about a 3000# or more factory ballast system in a boat with a rating of 2400?

Strait trippin indeed. Sounds like you are sort of bashing Centurion for playing by the rules?

I think waterdog is 100% correct. With the weight and shape of these boats, there is a limit to how much weight you can put in them. Too much and you are "just waisting fuel"

It seems to me this "too much is never enough" ballast mentality is bad for the sport. Too many people just add as much ballast as they can fit into a boat just because it will fit, not because they need it.

I see a lot of boats full of these riders who think its "hardcore" cause there boats are over loaded.

Jason,

I agree with you fully about adding too much weight. I think part of the problem is people posting or boasting about their "Shoulder High" wakes behind their boats. I have never seen a shoulder high wake produced on any standard wakeboat and don't think it can be done unless you are using the shoulder of a five year old. I believe people think if they have enough weight they can achieve the mythical "Shoulder High" wake. In my opinion the force behind the wake is much more important than the height of the wake.

Centurion offers bow bag. they also offer dual tanks in back. There is a big difference in the 23 and 24 but it takes a little more weight in the 24. I run dual tanks and a 250lb skylon tank and surf great. with 3 people. We put a enzo bag in a 24 ocean wave.

Hey guys. Just thought I'd chime in. I have had 4 Enzos (2 23s and 2 24s). I'll be getting my 5th this spring. My boat is one of the two Inland Surfer team boats. We don't have shoulder high wakes, but I have yet to surf a boat with a better wake. Feel free to check out pics at www.inlandsurfer.com Here is how we order and outfit our boats:

From the factory we order them with 5 tanks (2 on each side and one middle).

When we get the boats we remove the port side tanks but leave the plumbing. Then we put in the Enzo sac and run the fill hoses and install the existing empty pumps.

When we run the boats, we fill the sac AND the starbord ballast. That's it. We have found that any more weight (beyond people) can cause the wake to not be as clean. Oh, we also order our boats with the trim tab which we use to make small adjustments to the wake (it really does work well for this). We NEVER put weight in the front of the boat. From time to time we fill the center tank but still can not come up with conclusive evidence that it makes much of a difference.

Mark, I didn't think the Enzos had center tanks.

Dang, four Enzos!!

Mark, Is there room for an Enzo Sac in the starboard compartment of a 23' Enzo ? Maybe there is a problem with having enough room for the sac and pumps ? I would like the option of switching regular and goofy with a wave that is just as good on each side of the boat. I also surf with only 3 people in the boat most of the time.

I'm clear now that you don't need ballast up front or go over weight capacity with an Avalanche or Enzo because it has the deepest V out there and a tremendously shaped hull.

The surf-specific Switch blade sounds like the best option for making a wave, and hopefully with no ballast requirement.

Has anybody thought of using a mini version of a Flow-Rider (water-park surf wave) It would attach in a through hull design in the stern.I'm thinking wave enhancement not creating it per say. Think of the tricks you could do if you could drop back in the pocket 20'-25'.

Jim,
I don't think the Enzo sac will fit on the starboard side of a 23. I know it will fit on the 24. We use to switch weight around (before we had the Enzo) but it was such a hassle. The funny thing is, it's MY boat and I'm the only goofy rider. I just decided to learn how to ride backside and later switch frontside.

Mark, I've got the same problem as you. I'm a goofy footer and all of my friends with the exception of two are regular footers. I've got the 23 foot enzo and could care less about their side of the boat. We ALWAYS set their side up first when we go out. I guess I'm going to have to learn to go backside which I hate. I may have fly high make a custom sac for the starboard side.

Jim -Ya, but the new Switch Blade isn't ready for the market and the manufacturer really hasn't published any data.

Not sure I know how you'd tie a flow rider to a boat or what you're suggesting. I'd need a picture.

I’m front side but most of my family and friends are goofy. I want a boat that does both sides well. However, its my money and my boat, I’m going to make sure that the front side wake is good first.

Here are my surf wake control suggestions.
To build a good surf wake you need to build a good bow wake. When we design or select a boat we fix the hull shape. That’s generally not a variable once the resin hardens.

Then we typically control, displacement, list, and slip angle. Actually I think many of us don’t know that we’re controlling slip angle (dog tracking) but I think that’s really important.

Say what you want but I think that there’s no replacement for displacement. A wedge or Switch Blade should be good but I think that both the Wedge and Switch Blade flatten out the list of the boat partly killing the wake.

You should be able to control list with trim tabs or better yet hydrofoils. Trim tabs can only give you zero to positive lift. I think that hydrofoils capable of providing positive, negative, and zero lift would be ideal. For front side surfing set the port for negative lift and the starboard for positive lift. For the goofy side switch the lift setting on each side.

So why do we list the boat to one side for a good surf wake? I think that the reason listing works is that it makes the bow cut in to the water at an off angle. The off angle acts like a rudder that works against the steering rudder. The difference between the “hull rudder” and steering ruder creates a slip angle. You get a slip when you steer your boat. How many times have you heard someone say that they have to drive in circles to get a good wake? I’ve experimented with slip a little. A little slip can do wonders for the surfing wake. Too much slip is bad.

Add another vertical foil to change the slip angle. The vertical foil would simply be a second rudder offset from the primary rudder. Centurion has a patent for a forward rudder, True Track I think. The forward rudder is in front of the tracking fins. The forward rudder is supposed to help ski boats turn more sharply. Attach that forward fin to an independent control that you can set and hold left or right. If you could do that you could fine tune slip. That would put an end to driving is circles for some boats.

Prop rotation adds to (or subtracts from) the slip angle. That’s why LH rotation props favor the front side and RH props favor the goofy side. If you had something like the an altered Centurion True Track and foils on the back and I think you’d have a system that switches between regular and goofy quickly and with ease. Maybe a wedge or Switch Blade to replace the need for ballast.

Put that all together and I think you’d have a pretty good universal system.

Good summary Ed, you've studied this a great deal. However, we need some nomenclature! Both sides can be frontside, both sides can be goofy.

Regular and Darkside. No one confuses it and it doesn't require anyone to say: "let's see 2 r's so it's right - Starboard." Or port and starboard - for boring old engineers.

Had a chance to take out a 2008 Centurion Enzo SV230 on Sunday Click Here to check out the details

The enzo is definitly the way to go. I personally get an Avalanche for my boat but simply because I love the wake on it for wakeskating. At the same time I can wait it down and have a 10ft long thigh high wake to surf. The enzo however is incredible.

And like Mark said you don't need as much wait as you think. It is very easy to overload and the wake starts to suck. And the switchblade is also a very nice feature that will help. ESPecially when the one we will soon be testing comes out. SURF BLADE MUAHH