Learning Curve

Hey guys - here's a quesiton for you all. Typically, what's the wakeboarding learning curve look like in terms of time? How many rides or hours or weeks or months or years does it take to...

Get up?
Get across both wakes?
Do a few grabs?
Do 180's?
Do a raley?
Do an invert?

Now I know this is largely based on how much a person rides, but given that most of us do this recreationally tell me what you think.

Thanks

Get up - after a couple of tries

Get across both wakes - It took me about 3 months to grasp how to properly edge and pop to go wake to wake

Grabs, 180's and inverts all came together (in that order) over the next 3 months or so..

Any other input here?

I just started riding this summer. Before now, I had nothing to do with water sports, just showing horses. I have been out about 15-20 times now this year. We just go recreationally.
First Day, got up and stayed up for about 10 sec.
After first 5 times I was crossing the wake, not aggressively.
After about ten times, I was crossing aggresively, edging, carving and working on an ollie.
Now I have got the ollie at about 95% and am working on w2w jumps.
I'm also not that talented, but I try.

it all depends on the person... Some can get up and start riding and jumping... others will take a lot longer to just get the feel of the board... varies per person

ive been out six times. got up first try. got my edge down by the third time. and got my w2w the sixth time. i think skateboarding for 10 yrs when i was younger really helped me out alot. now i just need to find some people who are good so i can learn more. the guys i go out with are new too. so i got no one to teach me.

I like this thread.
This is our 2nd season. 1st season was getting up, carving, surface 180s and some switch riding. By the end of last season I landed some W2W at 65 ft. rope length. But, I can't land it everytime. This season I'm still trying to hit the W2W everytime, but I'm focusing more on technique, that is, getting good pop/air off the wake. I'm also riding with a tower this season at a 70 ft. rope length. I've hit a W2W a couple of times, but not consistent. It just seems to be coming along slower than I expected.

Thanks Brad - I too am finding progress slower than I had anticipated. I think part of that is the fact that I'm not a teenager anymore - I have teenage children as a matter of fact. But having said that, I'm hoping that soon I have the "Ah-Ha" moment where the "feel" of this kicks in and I can start building off of that. Unfortunately, this hasn't happened yet.

Please understand that I'm not gloating here, but being that I'm a little older than the average forum contributor and have been pretty successful professionally, I was able to go out an buy a top-of-the-line wake boat, a MasterCraft X-2. I've got to tell you, this is a wake generating monster. I actually think that part of my problem is that for my level of skill, this beast is a little too much. I'm pretty athletic, have good balance and firmly believe that pratice makes perfect, but I'm trying to understand why I'm progressing at such a slow pace. I've purchased the Higher Educational DVD which I highly recommend, but boy do those guys and girls make this all look so easy.

Anyway, I'm going to keep working on it and try to make consistent progress. I (like I assume most people) have put off the surface tricks and the switch riding practice in an effort to go BIG W2W. The problem with this is that I am beating myself to a pulp - lol.

Anyway's thanks for your posts and I'm gonna keep working on it as long as my poor body can hold out.

Oh, one more thing - I've read the "broken bones" thread and believe me, that didn't help!

(Message edited by rschrock on June 30, 2004)

Sweet look'n boat Randy. I bet that green has a lot of people putting on their sunglasses. Just keep plug'n away and have fun. I'm a little older than you so I can relate to the slow learning thing. It's better to learn slow than lose a summer because you busted some essential parts.

Randy, I'm really starting to believe it's more technique than anything with the w2w. We bought the Detention Video last year (after an outing of trying to get up and failing 7 times in a row), and it clearly says there's a right way to w2w and a wrong way, and that with the wrong way, you may land it a couple of times but that you'll spend more time crashin and burnin. I think this is what I've been doing. At this juncture, I'm trying to work on the technique: progressive edge all the way up the wake, stand tall at top of wake, and load the line. They say you can clear the wake, and get the pop/air, by just going 4-5 ft. outside the wake. (Based on what everyone has said, as opposed to experience.)

I don't think it's an age thing unless you calculate in your "kahonas" (sp) factor. I know I take things a little easier at 38 than I did at 22. Ditto on no gloating, but I've always had this uncanny ability to pick up things very quickly. After 4 times snowboarding, I can do a 180 off a jump, but have yet to accomplish the same feat on the wakeboard.

The other thing you can try is to shorten your rope length (less wake to cross), and work on your technique and get that down, and then try it at longer length later.

We're heading up tomorrow after work, and the funny thing is, I feel I'm on the verge of gettin it. haha.

Brad - Good luck this weekend and I want to see the "gettin it" video. Hopefully it won't include a trip to the ER (just kidding of course).

I'm totally with you on the technique thing. After I bought the Higher Education video, I was amazed at how much pop I was getting with such little effort by doing things the right way (edge through the wake, progressive edge, handle to hip for balance, etc.). But as you mentioned, now that I know how to get the air I need, it is for sure down to the variable of "kahonas".

I too catch on pretty quickly and am convinced that fundamentals and technique are the answer to most recreational activities (tennis, golf, fly-fishing, etc.). But to that end, I'm wondering how many repeated face plants will it take me to explore Plan B - whatever that is.

I'm convinced that after I nail a few HS W2W's and get the "feel", riding switch, doing TS W2W's, 180's, grabs and maybe a few other tricks will become just a matter of practice. Inverts and other advanced stuff is going to require that "kahonas" thing again.

Anyways, good luck and lets keep each other updated.

(Message edited by rschrock on June 30, 2004)

John Anderson - Is that you in those pic's my friend? If so, there's hope for me yet - very impressive.

When did you start wakeboarding and what did your learning curve look like? I'm very interested in your experience.

Man, do I understand you guys!! I thought that I was the only one going BIG with W2W jumps and crashing big on the other side! I look like I know what I am doing until you watch me for about 2 runs where I do a few newbie tricks...take off for the HUGE W2W and then...SMASH on the other side. EVERYTIME! I had a friend put me on a really short rope last time out for technique practice. It worked a little. I had already ate it so many times that day and I was so tired that practice session was not 100% effort.
I hope to really get to it this weekend.
By the way... I have found that some good rocking tunes (disturbed-sickness, or Rage against the machine) help with the size of my "kahonas"
GOOD LUCK GUYS!!
When I land W2W consisitently I will post a vid!

Yeah ditto Brad on the shorten the rope thing. Try to run at the highest comfortable boat speed to narrow the wake and shorten the rope until clearing the second wake is easily achievable.

One thing that I tell people when teaching them to W2W is to use your arms to pull yourself across. You don't need much speed and as Brad said you don't need to be far outside the wake. 5+ feet is probably enough. 10 feet is probably better if you make it slow and progressive. Don't try to make the other wake with speed. Once you launch and are standing tall, use your arms to pull yourself across.

You can definently clear the wake with good pop from 5-10 feet out.... Use a very strong but PROgressive cut into the wake... cut ALL the way up threw the wake... stand tall at the top with the handle low and in at the waist... and the thing that gave me the "AH HA" was Always remember that how you leave the wake (body position) is how your going to land on the other side!!!!!! After going big and doing some grabs out into the flats your not going to be scared to try a few inverts wake-to-wake. Tantrum and backroll arn't hard... its all technique (always keep the handle where everyone says it should be). By the way don't worry if the wake-to-wake comes slow... I had to land a back roll before my wake-to-wake because I got too frustrated crashing on jumps. It helps to ride with someone thats pretty good and can explain to you what your doing wrong and how to fix it, I've had the great oppertunity to ride with some pro level riders and my normal crew all have the potential to compete in Jr. Mens. That being said.... Ya'll are having a blast riding arn't you?! Don't know who said it but the minute you start treating it like its a job is the minute it starts frustrating you and pissing you off. Keep it fun..

I am a beginner but here is my take on the learning curve. This is also my first summer wakeboarding and I picked it up fairly quickly. I believe that my background in snowboarding (and water skiing when i was younger) helped me very much. I was able to get up and carve around as well as do small ollies my first time out. I have been wakeboarding for a little over a month and a half now, but i am able to comfortably jump w2w with grabs, all of the surface tricks, and land a backroll about 40% of the time. Of course, I also ride 6 days out of the week and I love to go balls to the wall... I don't really get scared of trying new tricks and I have a pretty high pain thresh hold so i just kind of get out there and do it until i get it. Another thing is that I was lucky enough to be able to go out on occasion with experienced riders that could immediately tell me what I was doing wrong. I think the most difficult thing for me was to get the real strong progressive edge and timing the pop off the wake. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the learning curve seems to vary from person to person and depends on a lot of variables. Oh yeah, plus i spend all day watching wakeboarding videos at work... I am now a wakeboarding junkie! =)

P.S. I have been a lurker on this forum for months now... I started reading it when I was looking into the sport and I have to say this is one of the best online communities i have ever seen! So anyways, I just want to say HI EVERYONE!! =)

PeAcE

(Message edited by drumnwake420 on June 30, 2004)

Randy, that's me at the Cable Wakeboard Tournament at Texas Ski Ranch earlier this month. Most definitely there is hope for you. I'll be 49 in Nov and have been skiing (slalom, trick, barefoot) since the 70's. I've been a big chicken all my life, which is probably why everything is still in working order.

I feel like I am continually improving and even though there was no wakeboarding in the 70's, I feel like I do more now that at any point in my life. I still continue to learn new stuff, but it comes slow and in spurts. I think I bore myself doing the same stuff and then get brave enough to try something new every now and then.

I always ride the cable now but intend to start buying pulls behind the boat at OWC and enter a few boat tournaments. I haven't been behind a real wakeboard boat (i.e. fully loaded Xstar, SAN) in about two years.

Here's some of my moves a few years ago behind my Ski Nautique (not Air or Sport unfortunately). I figure that I should be able to add (behind the boat) a roll to revert and a TS front roll pretty quick. I wish I knew someone closer to my age that had a boat like yours and lived in the Orlando area.

http://john.panelmagic.com/w800kbps.mpg

Simple solution John, move to KC and I'll give you all the rides you want if you teach me a thing or two, bring the aspririn and ben-gay, and promise to pull my carcass out of the water if I land on my head and get knocked out.

By the way, great video clip. Your a real inspiration to us in the over-40 crowd!

(Message edited by rschrock on June 30, 2004)

John, I saw you riding at TSR the Sunday after the Cable Wakeboard Tournament...and you were definitely tearing it up. I think you spoke to my girlfriend when you were on your way out. Both of us were impressed with your riding. Initially, I thought I may be too old to start wakeboarding (I'm 25) but after watching you ride, I realize that my age will not hold me back.

I started riding 2 months ago and my learning curve is rather slow due to a lack of time on the water. I've only had about a dozen pulls plus one trip to TSR. I can pull surface 180s, ollie, land one wake jumps and occasionally land w2w's...and I've pulled off an Indy grab a couple times. Landing an occasional w2w into the flats or sticking a grab is what keeps me coming back.

Randy, thanks for the offer but I think I've grown roots in Florida. KC does have a new cable though. There is a tournament this month but I will probably take a pass on it.

303, thanks for the compliment. You are never too old (especially at 25!) and TSR is a great place to ride. I love the cable there as it's about 7' higher than OWC. It has a nice floaty feel and the ramps and sliders are nicely designed. You are lucky to live close to TSR.