Opinion on powering 80x's with this amp?

Preface: I'm an audio novice.


My awesome wife got me a pair of Pro 80X's for our 2007 Malibu as a graduation present!

I have the following questions:

This is the amp that was recommended to her.
http://shop.mtx.com/p/l_47/MTX_Audio...r/listing.html

I am just not sure how this works, but if I read the specs correctly the 80Xs run about 200watts RMS. This amp seems to put out about 45 watts x 2 RMS.

Is this adequate power? What are the consequences if its not?



Also, the speakers and the amp are the complete package. My question is, are there other things that I need to do this right? I have questions like:

The single battery is the one that came with the boat 4 years ago. If i start running these speakers and amp is that going to suck that battery down if we are swimming for an hour or two and playing the radio? I assume the consequences here are getting towed home b/c the boat won't start? What battery (additional) stuff do I need? Recommendations are appreciated.

The headunit is the factory Sony one that came with the boat. I think it puts out like 52 watts, do you count that? (45 + 52) or once you hook up an amp, those watts don't come into play anymore?


What do I need in order to have variable volume, so the tower speakers can be at one volume and the boat can be at another?


Any help you can provide and your recommendations are appreciated. I want to do this all as close to the right way as possible, without killing the budget. Also, if you can give some feedback as your opinion on the priority order in which things should be done, I would appreciate that as I might not be able to do this all at once.

Thanks in advance!!!

No, that amp is not the way to go. Get 2, one for each Pro 80 and that would still be below the recommended RMS.

You need a good solid 2 chnl amp such as the Wet Sounds Syn2 or similar, that will deliver 200W RMS x 2 @ 4 ohm. More is even ok.

No, the head-units output doesnt count.

If you want any decent engine-off play time, another battery is a must. At a minimum, get a Group-24 marine deep-cycle and a manual multi-bank battery switch.

The Wet Sounds WS-420 is a great addition that will give you the zone control you seek as well as other features like talk-back MIC, AUX input, EQ. There are other zone controllers as well, so what you want to do is readily available.

For the amp install, you will need cabling, speaker wire, circuit protection and RCA cables.

Pro 80's are rated at 400 watts RMS at 4 ohms I would recommend either one of these amps
http://www.arcaudio.com/productdescr...ies/ks3004.asp
http://www.wetsounds.com/pages/products/SYN4.html

The Pro80 are rated @ 200W's RMS/400W's Peak, but I have no issues running them bridged on the Syn4 or Arc 300.4

http://www.wetsounds.com/pages/products/PRO80_spec.html

The 400W's from the the Syn4 in 2 chnl mode is a ton more headroom for only $50 more. Only downside is there is no room for expansion with out adding an amp or swapping out.

My bad but your right but more is always better.The pro 80's will handle the extra power no problem and we both know no matter how big you build your system it never seems to be enough LOL

I think I'm going with the M400/m amp from JL audio to push these 80s now.

Where should I mount the amp?

I'm thinking under the steering wheel area, but I'm unsure on how to run a 4 gauge wire from the battery to get over there?

Anyone else done this?

What is the recommended spot to mount the amp?

Passenger side mid-ship storage locker is an ideal spot. You batteries are right there, correct? Im guessing your 07 has the black box source unit? It would be there as well maybe.

07's don't have black boxes.

Mount your amp next to the others in the passenger storage compartment. Should already have distribution blocks there from factory, and the amp rack housing other amps there as well.

Okay, yeah from WW searches I see that nearly everyone else mounts theirs in the passenger storage compartment just like you are suggesting. Thank you so much for the advice.

I spoke with the guy that suggested the MTX 45 x 2 , he runs a very high end stereo shop and swears that the MTX amp is plenty of power.

Am I crazy? I know this guy knows his stuff, and I don't so I'm so confused about all this.

Basically saying that you can't go by the RMS numbers. Has anyone else heard this before?

The only thing I care about is getting great, decently loud sound, and not clipping out/ screwing up the $1000 Wetsounds speakers!

Originally Posted by tj_in_kc

Okay, yeah from WW searches I see that nearly everyone else mounts theirs in the passenger storage compartment just like you are suggesting. Thank you so much for the advice.

I spoke with the guy that suggested the MTX 45 x 2 , he runs a very high end stereo shop and swears that the MTX amp is plenty of power.

Am I crazy? I know this guy knows his stuff, and I don't so I'm so confused about all this.

Basically saying that you can't go by the RMS numbers. Has anyone else heard this before?

The only thing I care about is getting great, decently loud sound, and not clipping out/ screwing up the $1000 Wetsounds speakers!

The MTX website has the specs at 45W x 2 @ 4 Ohm. Dude, I put more then that to a $50 interior speaker. If in doubt, call Wet Sounds on Tuesday and ask for John Gyver.

If that guy runs a high end stereo shop, I wouldn't shop there. There is no way in hell you want to power those speakers with 45 watts. That's insane. 200 x 2 would be more like it and like the rest say, the more the better. Your amp won't work as hard to push out sound if it's above the rated limit of your speakers. You just need to make sure to set the gain properly.

high end stereo shops dont even sell MTX

To be blunt - the folks on this forum are correct and your stereo shop guru is an IDIOT!!!!!!

Not really even sure why you asked for our opinion if you trust your "high end" stereo guy so much??????

MTX amp bad idea...That amp on a set of Pro80's should be illegal! I would agree with UNvisible
. Take your time save your money and get a deccent amp. it will be the best thing you ever did. Trust me. I went on the cheaper side for amps when i first got my boat. I didnt have good speakers either but I had no amps. The boat was wired for amps but they were missing. i went with the clarion marine APX 480m. They were cheap and I just blew all my money on the boat so they had to do. Now that i got my Wetsounds Rev 8,s its time for a serious amp to makethe most of a high end speaker. Long story short you have a great speaker dont "F" it up with a ****ty amp. Good luck.

Murphy, calm down....dang... I just called the guy again after hearing from you all to see if there was some explaination to his reasoning.

My eyebrows were arched on this amp before I even got this project off the ground. Remember my wife got all this as a gift, I wasn't involved in the purchase process. I talked to a super helpful guy named Justin at Wetsounds yesterday and I ended up going with the JL Audio M400/4 amp. I'm running it bridged so 200 x 2, which seems to be a perfect match for these speakers.

The install was a little tricky (see my other post), but I got it all done last night!

The only issue I'm having right now is that it seems like the 80x's are putting out only super highs.

If you asked me "are the speakers clear as a bell" I would say yes, absolutely. If you asked me am I blown away/impressed by the sound, I would say no. It sounds like when they play hip-hop on a softball fields speakers. There is zero bass or mid range.

I have the filter frequency set at 80 on both channels. I have the gain about 50% on both channels (any more and the 80x's are so loud they overpower all the boat speakers so much you have to put your ear up to the boat speakers to even tell if they are working).

Does this sound familiar to anyone? Is there a setting I have set wrong???

I really do apreciate your help, as you have probably already saved me once from disaster on the whole amp situation....

TJ,

I cannot believe an installer would recommend such a mis match on power. The most basic rule of thumb is to try to match the RMS ratings of the speakers needs with the RMS rating of the amp at the given load. I prefer running more power and gaining the headroom. For instance, we run our PRO 80 on our demo boat with a SYN-4 bridged into 2 ch mode for 400x2. So I am running twice the RMS power. You have to be more careful in the tuning with so much power but tuned right, the speakers love it. But for a DIY. Easiest thing is to get as close to RMS matched as you can. Now I have seen some installers that are car audio guys and not marine audio guys not quite grasp how much power us marine guys are putting in their boats and more specifically when running Wet Sounds Pro Audio on the tower. How much power you really need.

I spoke with Justin and he mentioned that you already had this amp and that it would work for you. It is the min I would run to the PRO 80's. So just wanted to make sure you were aware. If it is the newer M400/4, it will do 200x2.

Couple things you need to make sure of.

1) IS both the mid bass driver and the compression driver hooked up inside the speaker? You need to make sure to follow the instructions and hook up the bare wire with soldereed ends to the compression driver and the spades to the mid bass driver. Also, make sure that the incoming speaker wires from the amp are connected to the INPUT on the crossover

So the wires from the amp should be connected to the factory positive wire to the + IN wire (Blue Wire) on the PRO 80 crossover. And connect the factory negative wire to the – IN (black wire that is directly next to the blue wire)

Then Connect the “soldered” white wire to the + positive (Red) push down terminal on the compression horn. Connect the “soldered” black wire to the – negative (Black) push down terminal on the compression horn. Then, connect the wire with the spade connector (Red) to the + positive of the mid bass woofer. Connect the wire with the spade connector (Black) to the - negative of the mid bass woofer.

It sounds like maybe you dont have the mid bass connected. Or maybe the wire came off when reinstalling it.

You can just pull the grille and driver to check, you dont need to remove the baffle.

Once you are sure you have all the wires correct.

2) make sure your amp is wired correctly. You should have it set to 2 ch bridged. One speaker would be on Chs 1-2 bridged. So the left positive and the right negative. And the other speaker would be on Chs 3-4 bridged so left positive and right negative.

3) make sure your input switch is set to 2 ch

4) Crossover should be on highpass (HP) and then set around 80HZ. So turn it all the way down to the left and back up to the 80 mark, the little arrow should be pointing at the 80Hz.

5) make sure the gain is then set properly and tuned with the rest of the system.

Once you check all that. If set up right, you should have tons of mid bass and a full sounding speaker.

Tim
Wet Sounds

I just purchased the M400 amp yesterday as it was in stock at a local stereo shop. It is 200 x 2.

Here are some pictures of the connections on the speakers. Because of the nature of all the connections being different, I really am pretty sure I have this all connected correctly.
https://picasaweb.google.com/timgrav...eat=directlink


When I stand parallel with my ear near the 80s I do hear mid and a tiny bit of bass. I see the cone moving/extruding. When I stand directly behind the speakers (like on the swim platform) I mostly only hear treble.

I am starting to think I just need to have my expectations set. I was thinking these would sound like awesomely loud home speakers, but really they are more like super loud tweeters. I'm starting to think I just need to add a sub and it would balance out the highs in the 80s.

Is it typical to run a sub if you are running 60s or 80s? Anyone out here experience them without a sub? Did it sound as I'm describing....?

First, I would balance left to right to middle to see that the speaker polarity is matching. If the sound is warmer to the left or right extreme then you have the polarity reversed on one of the speakers. If its warmer with the balance in the middle then it is wired correctly.
No tower speaker will have true deep bass but you will have midbass, especially with a larger 80.
Vary the highpass crossover between 80 to 100 Hz and see what kind a difference you hear while playing music with good midbass content. A higher setting will project a little louder and farther. A lower setting will produce a little more midbass but only to a point. There is no purpose in setting the crossover lower than the point of diminishing return.
Actually that speaker does have good midbass, as good as it can be up on a tower without any reinforcing surfaces around it. If you want a warmer texture then back off the treble. You will be surprised how a treble cut as small as just a couple of DBs will change the entire complextion.
Its going to take a monster subwoofer and monster power to drive bass outside and behind the boat when underway. Its particularly hard for a sub to keep pace with this tower speaker under those conditions.
Also, highly compressed downloads or downloads of questionable origins can sound extra bright. Try a CD with a variety of artists and with some better recordings.

David
Earmark Marine

I just setup the big Kicker HLCD system (6 pods, total) -- I ran into the same problem as you. I realized that the left channel sounded great but the right channel sounded horrible and together it was rubbish.

Of course -- once I started pulling stuff back apart I realized I did a dumb thing and wired one of the woofers out of phase. If you put your head in between two pods it actually made your ears hurt.

Good luck!