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Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-05-2007, 8:21 PM Reply   
This is my first post on my Midwest reply to Jeff Walkers “East vs. West Challenge for ‘07”. Uhmmm. Jeff I live in the Midwest! The objective of the challenge is to build the lightest possible surf board that will support a 180 pound surfer for an accumulated 5 minutes of ride time. The ride time should be documented via video.

Is it possible to make a lighter than air wakesurf board? Uhmm… probably not but how light can you go?

The core of my entry is balsa wood. Pound for pound balsa wood is one of the strongest materials available. I’ve ordered a bunch of balsa wood, hat should be here by this weekend. In the mean time I’ve been working on the design for my entry.

Last night I tweaked the longitudinal stringer design and I bought a few sample pieces at the local hobby store. Tonight I printed and cut out a couple of lateral stringer models. I used these models to cut the shape of these stringers and drill the core holes.

I pined two pieces together and cut the basic shape on the jigsaw. I used a sanding drum to clean up the cut. Then I tried using a drill press to cut the core holes. The drilling didn’t go so well. The back side of the holes tore away. I altered my drilling technique. I drilled half way through one side and then finished on the other side. The two sided drilling reduced the damage but it isn’t acceptable.

I’ve speculated that laser cutting is probably the best way to cut this material, I’ll have to see if I can find an out fit that can do the job.

The design
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Cut out models
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The IS Yellow is the inspiration for this board
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Pinned and ready to cut
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Cleaning up the cut
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Tried to load test but the weight was too unstable
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I used standard wood cutting bits for larger holes
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deep groves formed while drilling - that's a problem
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That's hard to read - 0.1 ounce!
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The second stringer only has six holes
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the weight of both stringers is 0.6 ounces
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I think the density of the second stringer must be higher of the scale isn't very linear at low weights
Old     (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-05-2007, 8:32 PM Reply   
That won't last 30 seconds, let alone the 5 minutes required. Give up now - I hate to see you put all of that time and effort into something for it to fall apart in seconds..... JUST KIDDING!!!!

Looks cool, can't wait to see the finished product!
Old    surfdad            09-05-2007, 9:07 PM Reply   
Great pictures, I'm loving the design. I sent you a link to laser cutting for Balsa parts. Ed, if I'm not mistaken as kids all of the balsa wood planes were "die cut". That's just a press, right? Do you think it's possible to make your own that could press the lightening holes out? I'm invisioning a socket sharpened to a razor like edge and a hydraulic jack.

OR, as Timmy points out, you could just resign yourself to LOSING! :-)
Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-06-2007, 4:58 AM Reply   
Most pre-cut balsa parts are die cut. The stringer material is 1/4 thick balsa. I'm not sure if they die cut balsa that thick.

The laser cutter you found is limited to 24 inches. That would work for the lateral stringers but the longitudinal stringers are 48 inches. We have laser at work that could do the cutting, but I’m not sure if everyone here would appreciate the novelty of what I’m doing and let me fire it up. I have used it before.

I might do a way with the foot pad and just add more lateral stringers; maybe on 1 inch centers. I think that will be stronger.
Old     (duckdiver)      Join Date: Jul 2007       09-06-2007, 6:46 AM Reply   
Hey Ed. Try using a good forstner bit instead of spade bit. They won't blow out the back. Good luck buddy.
Old     (david_osu)      Join Date: Sep 2007       09-06-2007, 8:48 AM Reply   
These punches work on balsa:

http://www.amazon.com/1-quot-2-PUNCH-SET/dp/B0002964CC

http://www.amazon.com/Heavy-Duty-12-Piece-Hollow-Punch-Set/dp/B000KE17JO

(Message edited by david_osu on September 06, 2007)
Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-06-2007, 8:55 AM Reply   
Dang, that's cheap.

Jac found an outfit in Fairborn that might be able to do the laser cutting. They can work with 4 foot by 4 foot sheets. The laser at work is a Nd:YAG but the wave length isn't a good match for cutting wood.
Old     (masonwakerider)      Join Date: May 2003       09-06-2007, 9:08 AM Reply   
i'd love to join in but just left for college and have no access to tools or a boat. So i'll just throw out my ideas. A while back i surfed a old hyperlite roam (144 = 4'7" long 16" wide ) the board as a full lenght rocker so it get it to surf you had to stand on the nose. but i was able to ride it for 5 min. It seems that if it had a flat bottom you could get away with something around 3'6" to 4' with a simalar waist shaped like a rectangle. So my idea is just use a sheet of balsa (1/4") with a thin sheet of glass on the bottom and top maybe a strip of carbonfiber down the middle for longitudinal stiffness. I put just enough rocker on the nose to keep it from digging in and use no traction or fins.
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Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-06-2007, 9:18 AM Reply   
WA, That's not too different from what I think Roy is going to try. He's going to sandwich a sheet of 3/4 inch foam between to harder sheets.

A balsa fin will be very light, only measurable in grams. The fin will make the board more sable and reduce the number of falls and starts. I think a fin is worth the added weight
Old     (sroot1)      Join Date: Aug 2005       09-06-2007, 1:03 PM Reply   
Old wood wookers trick!
Clamp a scrap piece o some kind of wood to the back of your piece that you are drilling thru! and walla! like Magic! no blowout on the piece you are drilling!
Good luck!
Old     (masonwakerider)      Join Date: May 2003       09-06-2007, 3:50 PM Reply   
I'll have to weigh the roam i might be in first place right now.

id also like to play around with nomex honeycomb (from my understanding its epoxy coated paper) they sell it at the boeing surplus store in seattle. I met a guy that built a fourteener (a 14' racing sailboat) out of nomex and carbon. The whole boat weighed around 200#'s I havent seen him lately as he working for the bmw orical americas cup team doing carbon work.
Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-08-2007, 1:19 PM Reply   
My balsa order isn’t here yet so I have to make good use of my spare time if I’m going to get this board done before October 5th.

OK, turns out that my father is one of those guys with at least one of every kind of tool. When my brother and I help my parents move to managed care we rounded up over 50 #2 Phillips screwdrivers. I had a pretty respectable tool collection before we moved my parents, but my brother, my brother in law, and I all had major additions to out tool sets afterward, thanks dad.

In addition to taking home dads drill press I also took home hundreds of drill bits. Frankly I didn’t know what the fancy ones in the wooden box were called. Well apparently those are Fortner bits, and it looks like I’ve got a dandy set of them.

I tested the ¾ inch Fortner bit on some scrap. It worked great! Then I finished drilling ½, 3/8, and ¼ holes in my second sample piece. I did tear the wood a little a few times, basically I went too fast. However, when I did tear the wood it was pretty minor.

Although there’s a local shop that could laser cut my project I’m going to save the money and use the tools that I have.

Here are some picture updates comparing the Fortner and flat wood bits.

Fortner and flat wood bits
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I’m embarrassed that I didn't even know what I had, that's a nice set of bits
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Nice clean cut with the Fortner and large blow out with the flat bit
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Side by side comparison of the flat and Fortner 1/2 holes. The Fortner didn't rip out channels like the flat did
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Last time I weighed this part it only had six, 3/4 inch holes. The weight dropped from 0.5 to 0.4 ounces.

What's really interesting is that the other stringer is only 0.1 ounces. I realize that the flat bit ripped out channels so there's less wood in the first one. However the weight difference is 4 to 1, that's huge. No doubt the heavier stringer is stronger.

I’ve modified the design. I’m keeping a minimum 1/8 inch of material from each hole to the outside. I’ve also replaced the foot pads with additional stringers. I currently have 15 lateral stringers and five longitudinal stringers. There are six lateral stringer patters. There are three longitudinal stringer patterns.

If one lateral stringer weighs 0.4 ounces that’s 6.0 ounces for all the laterals. The longitudinal stringers are 50% longer so they might weigh 0.6 ounces each, that’s 3 ounces. I estimate the balsa skin will be 10 ounces. I’m also adding 1/8 by 1/16 longitudinal stringers at the surface on 1 inch centers, there will be a total of 48 for of these tinny stringers, none longer than 48 inches. These tiny stringers will add less than an ounce. There will also be a ¼ balsa lip of final outer edge. The lip should weigh less than an ounce as well.

So, not counting glue, and the final polymer layer the total estimated weight is 18 ounces. I suspect the end weight will be fairly close to Jeff’s 24 ounce entry.

The updated design
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Old    surfdad            09-08-2007, 7:03 PM Reply   
That's an enginnering masterpiece! The density variance is amazing. In some of my research for the balsa rails and and skins, I found that a few retailers had a "select" grade of the wood labeled as "model aircraft grade" balsa with densities in the 4-5 pound per cubic foot.

You'll have to report on the variances of the ribs during the build out.

Love the design!
Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-10-2007, 8:48 PM Reply   
I still don’t have my balsa. I spent most of my free time this evening with a pair of scissors cutting out templates for making the stringers. I’ll transfer the template pattern on to some poplar boards. I’ll cut the poplar to shape. Then I’ll use the poplar models to make the balsa stringers.

Two of my lateral stringers weren’t symmetric so I’ll have to re-plot those tomorrow.

Plotted patterns and poplar
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Cut out patterns on poplar. I'll start cutting the poplar tomorrow.
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Scott R. is this anything like what do?
Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-12-2007, 8:48 PM Reply   
I’m still waiting for delivery of my balsa order!! I couldn’t wait any longer so I stopped off at a hobby store on the way hone from work and bought a few pieces. The balsa that you typically find at a hobby store is only 36 inches long. That’s long enough for the lateral stringers but there will be a lot of waste. The 36 inch pieces are to short for the longitudinal stringers.

I made seven stringers tonight. I made each of the one off stringers. I made two of the common stringers and one model stringer. I’m using the model stringer to build the common stringers. I traces the cut pattern from the model, I cut the common stringers, then I pinned the model over two on the common stringers. While pinned I cut out the notches and drilled pilot holes. I pulled the pins and then drilled the lightening holes.

Over the last few days I’ve been testing my build process with poplar boards. I found myself carefully cutting paper models and then carefully cutting the wood on my scroll saw. That was a lot of careful work. Today I glued the paper models on the wood and then did the careful cutting only on the scroll saw. That added a tinny amount of weight but saved a tedious step.

I weighed seven stringers, note that most are smaller and lighter than the common stringer, or at least they should be lighter. All together seven stringers weighed 2.4 ounces. From front to back they weigh: .2, .2, .3, .2, .2, .2, .4, and .4 ounces. The stick that I used for two of the common stringers was unusually light. Those stringers only weigh 02. ounces. I expect they should weigh about 0.4 ounces.

I’ve realized that I’ll have more scrap than I expected. Cutting the long 48 inch stringers is going to be difficult on my scroll saw. The throat of the saw is only 18 inches. I’ll need to find a way to cut these long stringers.

I laid out the new stringers plus a few early model stringers to see how they will look. Here are a few pictures.

Glued paper templates on balsa
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Cut balsa
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Model stringer pinned to two other pieces
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Drilling pilot holes
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The look of things to come
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Old     (smedman)      Join Date: Feb 2006       09-13-2007, 8:30 AM Reply   
Ed, you continue to blow me away! Amazing!
Old     (riverrunner)      Join Date: Aug 2006       09-13-2007, 8:39 AM Reply   
Really cool seeing this come together Ed
Old    surfdad            09-13-2007, 9:18 AM Reply   
It is an enginnering marvel, even if it comes in second place :-)

I had to share. Sean P was saying that we should go back to the heaviest board. I have a few blanks on order from Foamez.com that are scheduled to arrive today. I just did a track on the shipment at Con-Way and had to laugh at this:

Shipment Details
Prepaid
Pcs 1
Wgt 870 lbs

So, after I figure out how I'm going to get the almost 900 pounds worth of blanks home, once I get them shaped I am challenging you to the HEAVIEST single board construction. :-)
Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-13-2007, 9:49 AM Reply   
I still have five longitudinal stringers to cut and over ten more lats. If I have my third on line there will be no work planned for tonight, I'm surfing.

I'm worried about this thing snapping like a twig. If it survives 5 minutes it will never surf again.
Old     (entrustclothing)      Join Date: Jul 2005       09-13-2007, 10:06 AM Reply   
jeff you got 870lbs of blanks coming to you? holy crap! how many blanks is that!
Old    surfdad            09-13-2007, 11:52 AM Reply   
Sean, I'm HOPING not! :-) I only ordered and paid for three...what would 870 lbs be, 300? :-) I think it's a misprint on their tracking deal

I can't even imagine Judy's reaction if I came home with 300 blanks. "Oooooohhhhhhhhh sweetie, I'm home." :-)
Old     (michealhoward)      Join Date: May 2007       09-13-2007, 12:50 PM Reply   
Or Jeff you got lucky and they just messed the order up and shipped you 300.
Old     (entrustclothing)      Join Date: Jul 2005       09-13-2007, 12:57 PM Reply   
that would be pretty funny jeff :-)

hey whatever happend with those asymetrical boards would were messing around with back int he day?
Old    surfdad            09-13-2007, 1:22 PM Reply   
Micheal, it SOUNDS lucky until I have to get those babies home, it'd take me a week at 12 boards a load. OH OH OH! I could have a blank hauling party!!!! Invite everyone I know with a pickup or trailer to swing by my office first and then come to the house for beer. :-) Oh and while you're here, mind taking this 12 blanks with you? :-) Sheesh, I'd still need to invite 20 folks over :-) That's a LOT of beer.

Plus...I'd still have to break it to Judy...when I come in from the shaping bay all covered in foam, it's not her personal fav. :-) "but sweetie, they were free!" :-) I just don't think that's going to be very convincing.

Hey Sean, we had a couple of those. One had a rotating fin box from...Blakestah? Anyway...single fins lack drive and draw out the turn radius to begin with, but the density of the rubber used in the fin box was TOO hard to get any useful movement in the box. When I did find soft enough rubber, you couldn't really pump, the fin would move. :-)

As for the differing outlines on either side of the stringer, it just didn't seem to make a significant difference, mostly they just felt weird. It wasn't an improvement over symmetrical boards.
Old     (entrustclothing)      Join Date: Jul 2005       09-13-2007, 2:16 PM Reply   
thats cool i just all of a sudden remembered those boards. it cool that all you guys have the knowledge to come up with this stuff, i just like to surf and let you guys worry about the nerd stuff :-)

i still really wanna ride a walker board. i like my walzer alot but its the carbon fiber one and i almost feel like its to light! it seems like i would have better drive and the board would feel more solid if it weighed more
Old     (dennish)      Join Date: May 2005       09-13-2007, 2:21 PM Reply   
Hey Sean,
Come down to Sacramento and we can put you on a few.
Old     (entrustclothing)      Join Date: Jul 2005       09-13-2007, 2:26 PM Reply   
i drive down to SF once or twice a year so next time ill have to make a stop over :-)
Old    surfdad            09-13-2007, 2:28 PM Reply   
You have an incredible memory, Sean. I've always enjoyed tearing into stuff. I also really enjoy these last few years of being able to share this with James, he'll be off to college in less than 2 years...sheesh the time goes by so fast.

I don't think the weight of the Walzer is the issue Sean, it's those smaller C5's that affect the drive. Or give it a sense of "less than". There tends to be a trade off in that feeling of drive and the rail-to-rail responsiveness. If you can work a hacksaw, it might be worth the $20 to experiment with the fins.

Get uour hands on some standard future fins - say G1 400's, you can cut back the base - leaving just a notch to fit in those boxes...just to see if you prefer the longer/deeper fins. You MIGHT have to counter sink a hole for the set screw to keep the fin in place.

Anyway...for a few bucks, might make all the difference in the world in terms of drive.
Old     (entrustclothing)      Join Date: Jul 2005       09-13-2007, 2:35 PM Reply   
i get what your saying :-) but the weight seems still to light, i have an IS 4skim as well and i love the thruster fins on the walzer but the 4skim rides so much smoother in the water and feel more solid, i cant help but think its the weight?

but im no expert so i could be way off!
Old    surfdad            09-13-2007, 3:08 PM Reply   
I hear you on the the smoothness...a lighter board will feel almost choppy or twitchy compared to a heavy board. The Walzer also has significantly shaper rails, which will cpompound that feeling. The drive, however, is more a matter of the fins.

Saw Jeff Page at the Worlds and he was messing with a twin fin 4-skim (black pearl now). Seriously ghetto fin attachment :-) Wouldn't surprize me to see that reach production next year.
Old     (entrustclothing)      Join Date: Jul 2005       09-13-2007, 3:45 PM Reply   
yeah i would love dual fins on the 4skim, i love how smooth the board rides but i love the drive of the walzer, doing airs are much harder with the single fin
Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-16-2007, 6:51 PM Reply   
I have the entire frame together now. However the two outside stringers are too tall. I’ll have to fix my drawing and make new ones. I’ve added four aspen lateral stringers to the five longitudinal stringers. The total weight of the frame 15.5 ounces. For an all Balsa frame I had estimated 9 ounces, so this is a 6.5 ounce increase.

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I also check fit the mini longitudinal stringers.
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Old    surfdad            09-17-2007, 5:27 AM Reply   
It's coming together nicely! Quite the labor of love. Ed, what are you going to do with the balsa when it does arrive?
Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-17-2007, 5:45 AM Reply   
I still need the 48 inch long skin, and 1/8 by 1/16 stringers. I can get away with 36 inch hobby store balsa but it's darned expensive.
Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-19-2007, 8:40 PM Reply   
A minor update. I finally got a hold of the "Balsa Depot. They had not shipped my order yet so I canceled on them. I'll be raiding every hobby store in the tri state area for balsa.

I glued the frame together tonight and glued the top side mini stringers in place. The total weight jumped to 20.4 pounces!!
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Old    surfdad            09-20-2007, 5:54 AM Reply   
Ed, What was the weight before this latest addition of balsa? It really seems the density of the wood varies greatly from piece to piece.
Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-20-2007, 6:23 AM Reply   
The two outer longitudinal stringers were too tall so I had to make minor changes last night. I replaced the two back stringers, two stringers back from the front tip stringer. I replaced the two outer latter aspen stringers. The lightning holes on these stringers are smaller. With those changes I thought I measured 15.7 ounces, a 0.3 ounce increase.

I added 24 1/8 by 1/16 stringers, and one 1/4 by 1/4 outer edge balsa stringer. That should have been less than an ounce. Some of these stringers will be cut back. That shouldn’t have taken the weight past 16.7 ounces.

There's also the glue, could I have put on 3 to 4 ounces of glue, I don’t see how that’s possible.
Old    surfdad            09-20-2007, 7:49 AM Reply   
That would be a lot of glue. Any chance there was an error in weighing the individual components, or on this last weigh-in?
Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-20-2007, 6:16 PM Reply   
Here’s another glue up update. I've added the bottom side mini stringers. I've also added the other outside rail and I've added the first lay up of the front and back outer rail.


I've about a half dozen patentable wakesurf ideas, none presented on this thread. Looks like Jeff and I should stop posting our leading edge stuff on line for everyone:-)

The board lost a little weight last night as the glue dried. The latest additions only added a little over an ounce, it’s at 21.6 ounces now.

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Old     (mhetheridge)      Join Date: Aug 2006       09-20-2007, 8:02 PM Reply   
I don't really think you can patent that hollow board design. Hollow boards have been around for decades. Tom Blake was probably the first guy ever to do a hollow board. That would have been probably in the 1930's. There are plans on the internet that are already very similar to the board you're building. But, that's one way cool looking board. I don't know if I would ever want to surf that. It's really a nice piece of art. If you're looking for balsa, you may want to try to research some sources over at swaylocks.com
Old     (dennish)      Join Date: May 2005       09-20-2007, 8:08 PM Reply   
Matt,
I don't think Ed was talking about the hollow board. He was referring to the surf rod thread. Ed did that last year. I am sure that he has other inventions up his sleeve.
Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-20-2007, 8:15 PM Reply   
Dennis has it right. I have some ideas that I've documented and some that I've built and tested. I think Jeff also pushes the envelope too. I'd hate to find out that I (or Jeff) have been giving away the store by sharing aspects of our hobbies.
Old    surfdad            09-20-2007, 8:26 PM Reply   
I don't want to say too much, but...I'm calling a patent attorney in the morning :-)

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Old     (dennish)      Join Date: May 2005       09-20-2007, 9:45 PM Reply   
Jeff,
Quit using that photo. The wakeboarders will get made that we ruined their butter to surf a pink door.
Old    surfdad            09-21-2007, 4:51 AM Reply   
Dennis, I forgot all about that! That was a funny post wasn't it? So, even if there isn't a wakeboarder for 500 miles, the butter belongs to them? What is relegated to the slalom skiers? :-)

If my memory serves me correctly, It was so cold that day that even the fisherman stayed home!
Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-21-2007, 6:29 PM Reply   
I've completed the outer ring build up. I've also started adding the balsa skin on the top of the board.

The outer edge of the boar is 1/4 x 1/4 balsa. I needed to extend the outer edge to the front and back. Balsa that thick doesn't bend very easily. I laid up 1/16 x 1/4 strips. Once first one was in place I was able to tape the others in place while the glue dried
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Strips used to make the outer ring
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The outer ring at the tail
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Pinning strips in place
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Test fitting 1/16 x 4 x 36 inch
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Not exactly vacuum bagging. Weighting down the skin during glue up
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Old    surfdad            09-21-2007, 8:21 PM Reply   
Very nice Ed - I do like the application of the skins!
Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-22-2007, 7:24 PM Reply   
Weighting the skin didn't work very well so I re-glued the first to sheets and then glued and pinned two more sheets.

I just added one more sheet on the top edge. The very edge of this sheet has to bend pretty hard. I thought that I just needed something to clamp the sheet to the outer rim. I looked for binder clips but we don't have any at the house. I thought hmmmm what would make a good clamp? Well it turns out that C-Claps make excellent clamps and I have a bunch of them.

I set up a gate on one side of the board so the board wouldn't slip away. Then I clamped the edge with some scrap wood and C-clamps. I pinned the in board side of the sheet.

Jeff, I seem to have found the most tedious surf board assembly technique possible, is there a prize for that?

Pinned up four sheets
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C-Clamped fence
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C-clamped the straight edge
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C-clamped the tail edge
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Old    surfdad            09-22-2007, 7:45 PM Reply   
C Clamps! Who knew! :-) Are you asking for a tedious prize Ed? I could send you 1,000 T - pins, or an ounce of CA glue...OR how about abox of my foam scraps and dust? :-)

I just want to see if this puppy surfs - you get "most dedicated" if you get it in the water behind the boat. :-)
Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-22-2007, 7:55 PM Reply   
I was worried about the strength of the board, and the jury is still out. However, as I glued the frame together it felt a lot more substantial than the individual pieces. With some of the skin on it feels stronger still. If we make our five minutes that will be all the ride time this board gets. I'll mount it on a wall.
Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-22-2007, 7:58 PM Reply   
If you send a box of foam scraps and dust I can return the favor in the form of balsa scraps and saw dust:-)
Old    surfdad            09-22-2007, 8:18 PM Reply   
A new tradition! Each year, we exchange scraps! :-)
Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-23-2007, 8:06 PM Reply   
Another pins and glue update.

I started adding skin to the bottom of the board. I've also added the final bits at the front and back of the top. The bend at the back of the board is a little extreme. I had to wet the wood with a sponge to get it to conform to the frame. All going well so far.

Weight is getting up there. With the top skin except the curved end pieces is 2 pounds and 4 ounces.

Putting on the last regular top section
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Looking through the bottom
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Bottom skin cut outs around the fin
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Bottom skin glued and pined in place
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Top front center nose skin
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Back center skin - wet
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I have only a few scraps of 1/16 x 4 inch skin balsa left. I'll have to find more hobby stores.
Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-25-2007, 7:45 PM Reply   
Well I used up all of my 1/8 by 4 by 36 balsa and then I used four sheets of 1/16 by 4 by 36 balsa. I put the four, 1/16 sheets on the bottom of the board. The 1/16 balsa feels like paper. The pressure on the bottom side of the board will be distributed and so the pressure on the thin balsa at any one point won't be too high. The board is six sheets wide. The center two sheets are 1/8 balsa.

I need to find two more sheets and I’ll be balsa to finish the glue up. Before I put on the last sheet the total weight was 2 pounds and 7 ounces.
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Old    surfdad            09-25-2007, 8:10 PM Reply   
It's absolutely gorgeous Ed. How are you intending to finish the outside? It would be a shame to hide the wood grain.
Old     (norris_laker)      Join Date: Aug 2006       09-25-2007, 8:13 PM Reply   
Ed, the board looks great. A real labor of love. Will Norris be the maiden voyage or will you test it on Griggs?
Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-25-2007, 8:36 PM Reply   
I had planned to hide the wood under model aircraft wing covering material. I bought red wing covering and was going to add some Kokopelli art to the top side.

I’ve taken the Mighty Centurion to Sun Fun and asked my dealer to help me sell her. So other than the Norris Lake Season Extender, I’m done for the season, done until I figure out if and how I’m going to replace her.

The first ride for this board will be at Norris. I know we should have a bunch of 160 to 165 pound riders, I don’t know if we’ll have any 180 pound riders. I’m way over 180, though I think the Light Stick will be more than large enough for my weight. If the Light Stick survives five minutes of riding I think I’ll quickly retire it and keep it as a wall hanging.
Old     (norris_laker)      Join Date: Aug 2006       09-26-2007, 6:23 AM Reply   
Having a bunch of 160 to 165 lbs riders shouldn't be a problem since James was the west coast rider. As best as I can tell if you are wet and you wear a couple of vests, you are considered to be a 180 lbs rider. BTW, I am a true 180 lbs rider. Are you looking to get a Really Mighty Centurion? Which of your crew members are planning to come to Norris?
Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-26-2007, 7:15 AM Reply   
Roy, I know Dave is going to make it, Dean is thinking about it - kitchen pass issues. Jac is still in Europe, I'll talk to him when he gets back.

The ballast I've been running in the Lightning is just too scary. I'm going to sink her if I keep running like that. I'd like to get an Enzo but I'm just not a new boat buyer. The Enzo is still a fairly new model so there aren't make used ones on the market and most of those are on the left coast.

I suspect that boat length or ballast restrictions are on their way for Griggs and O’Shaughnessy. So in the long run buying a 2002 Avalanche might not work on Griggs. If I’m going to buy a boat that won’t be permitted on Griggs then I might as well buy the one I want and ride on the bigger lakes.

I might go boatless and save for an Enzo in a year or two when more used ones are on the market. I might look for a large 1980s boat and make it a wake research boat. If I do make a wake research boat I can't share any results or file a patent without getting in trouble at work. So except for stopping the depreciation on the boat I have, I don't know what I'm going to do.
Old    lakeside5_10            09-26-2007, 10:25 AM Reply   
could you have skinned the frame like a rc airplane with plastic foil instead of the balsa. then glass it
Old    surfdad            09-26-2007, 10:40 AM Reply   
Ed,

Does your employment contract or employer's HR policy restrict you from ALL outside investments? For example a minority interest in a LLC, LLP, Partnership or Corporation? I can't imagine that they could effectively prevent you from all equity investments.

If I am not mistaken, Ohio is a separate property state (as opposed to community property like California), but is also an equal "contribution-distribution" state when the issue pertains to marital property. Generally property obtained during the marriage belongs equally to both spouses.

It would seem to me, to be fairly easy to structure an entity that would resolve your difficulty, unless your employment contract said you couldn't have any excess cash :-) Might be hard to enforce such a contract, though. :-)
Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-26-2007, 10:58 AM Reply   
I think glass would weigh more.

Hmmm... I don't want to push the limits at work, I'm found of that monthly check. I could claim that my wife, son, and daughter are developing these ideas, if that's what your driving at.

Now I'm sure there's no work place cash restriction, but I'm not sure my wife will let me have any cash:-)
Old    surfdad            09-26-2007, 12:23 PM Reply   
I do understand the restriction on investment activities due to a lack of spousal consent. :-)

No, I wouldn't suggest making any representations that weren't 100% supportable.

No law requires an employee to assign rights to an invention to an employer. However, in an invention-assignment agreement, a company requires an employee to sign over all work-related inventions. (Several states prohibit employers from requiring employees to sign over inventions conceived outside of work, however.)

I would think that wakesurf specific ideas wouldn't be work related. If there is an issue with holding title to an intangible asset, you can easily create an entity to do that, without releasing equity outside of your household.

If you "think" you have marketable ideas that aren't work-related, I believe that it would be benefical to check into your ability to bring them to market in a protected form.
Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-29-2007, 8:36 AM Reply   
The top of the board is now fully skinned. I only have to finish the bottom side nose to complete the balsa work. The board weight is up to 2 pounds 8 ounces.

The top of the board
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I removed these clamps and pins, the skin at the tail is now compete
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I'm currently working on the last parts on the nose.
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Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-29-2007, 11:56 AM Reply   
The last of the balsa is on now. I had a lot of trouble keeping the C-clamps on the board. The Nose rocker angles made the C-clamps walk or slip off the board. We were out at the store and I thought some binder clips might do the job better. All they had were these scrap book binder clips, but they worked great.

The tip of the nose didn't get enough pressure while gluing. I'm re gluing the tip and holding it in place with binder clips.
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Aren't they pretty? Whatever, it's what they had at the store.
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Here's the entire bottom surface of the board.
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Old     (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-29-2007, 3:43 PM Reply   
Almost time for the sander! Getting close. I really think you should have spent all of this time surfing instead of building the "Surf Dirigible"! Dedication, that's for sure!
Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-29-2007, 6:38 PM Reply   
My work schedule has had me working late. That gives me little time for surfing. I do get a few hours in the evening to work on the board which is a kind of stress relief.
Old    surfdad            09-29-2007, 7:21 PM Reply   
I really like the look of it Ed, there is something about the wood grain that makes it look so sharp.
Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-29-2007, 8:07 PM Reply   
I was looking at some long boards on eBay before Nationals. I really liked the ones with a wood finish.

However, this board is not water tight as is. I'm counting on another outer skin to seal it up.

Also, w.r.t there's virtually no sanding required on this board. The skin is so thin there's really nothing to sand.
Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-30-2007, 8:27 AM Reply   
I started putting on the model air plane wing covering material on the board. I started by putting several small sections around the fin and then I put a section on the back bottom of the board. The covering around the fin went on fairly nicely. But I didn’t like how it was going on when I got to larger sheets so I pulled it off and went to plan B.

Plan B is a more traditional wood covering, stain and polyurethane. I also need to fill in a few slightly open places. I didn't sand the yellow glue very vigorously because the wood is just so thin. The bottom side has more 1/16 skin so I barely sanded that side.

The fully skinned board
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Model airplane covering tools
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Applying the covering around the fin
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Plan B ready to stain and seal
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Stained the top side
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View from the back
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This will take more than one coat.
Old     (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       09-30-2007, 9:12 AM Reply   
Sure is purty!! I was thinking you would need to sand the seams down some to keep you from cutting your feet up on the top - unless you are putting some sort of traction on it (wax?).

It really looks nice, excellent craftsmanship too!
Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       09-30-2007, 9:24 AM Reply   
The seams are pretty even already. The goal is low weight so I'm not planning to put any traction on it.

Ya, looks good now. Wait until we ride it and it snaps like a twig:-)
Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       10-07-2007, 7:42 PM Reply   
With the final coat of polyurethane the Light Stick came in at 2 pounds and 12 ounces. I was able to get the weekend off and take the board down to Roy's place on Lake Norris.

I rode the board at about 215 pounds for 5 minutes and 35 seconds.

After riding we found that the board had taken on quite a bit of water. The water warped the paper thin balsa very badly. Even warped my entry is much better looking than Jeff's:-)

Here's my ride evidence: http://www.wakesurf.net/media/showphoto.php/photo/275

Big, big thanks to Roy and family for hosting me and providing an opportunity to test the Light Stick.
Old    surfdad            10-07-2007, 7:47 PM Reply   
Congratulations!!!!!!!!! I have to hand it to you, your Light Stick was absolutely gorgeous!
Old     (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       10-07-2007, 9:29 PM Reply   
Awesome!!! How did it ride? Did you like the feel of it? Now that you've entered it and shot the video, are you going to dry it out and then put a coat of glass or anything on it to use again? What about filling in the holes and putting multi coats of poly on it? It was such a pretty board, you just hate to see it retired after 1 use!!
Congrats!
Old     (norris_laker)      Join Date: Aug 2006       10-07-2007, 9:43 PM Reply   
The Light Stick (aka, Surf Dirigible) was a beautiful board. Very proud to see its maiden voyage.

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Light Stick after the 5 minute run
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The Light Stick did take on a little water
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Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       10-08-2007, 4:59 AM Reply   
The board is done, and will soon be a wall hanging. The skin is even more badly warped now than in the photos above.

I really didn't do anything but attempt to stay in the pocket to make sure the board would last the duration.
Old    surfdad            10-08-2007, 5:43 AM Reply   
Ed, after completing this contest, what are your conclusions about the building methodology you chose, both good and bad. After reviewing everything, if you could do one thing differently in the construction, what would it be?

I'm intrigued by the cavities, inside the Light Stick. Obviously, you were able to create a structure that more than supported the minimum weight requirement and air is pretty light. :-)
Old     (entrustclothing)      Join Date: Jul 2005       10-08-2007, 3:18 PM Reply   
ed thats awesome! so you were able to ride it for 5 mins?

what was the final weight? and how much did it weight after the ride?

i think you should take the before and after weight and split the difference for the final weight, what do you think jeff? :-)
Old     (bigshow)      Join Date: Feb 2005       10-08-2007, 6:29 PM Reply   
5 min 35 sec

2 pounds 12 ounces before, 2 pounds 12 ounces after drying.

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