Can't say no to 3 stage?

Sorry, I was inspired by the thread from the original Valhalla post.

Why is the trend to ignore continuous rocker boards? Is it a confidence issue or is it a status symbol to say I'm good enough to ride a 3 stage? Or if I ride a 3 stage rocker board my riding will be bigger and better than a rider on a continuous board. Just reading the thread a lot of people on here need to shut up and listen to a professional. You wouldn't question Tiger Woods on golf advice would you? Jonathon had a good point. Considering that the majority of people who wakeboard can't even do an invert or a spin, most people would benefit from a consistent pop off the wake (continuous). I'll flame myself here because I know I'd benefit from a continuous rocker board, however, I swear by the Subjekt. The difference is, however, I'm not afraid to try continuous rocker boards. After seeing Murray go bigger than 99% of anyone on this website with a continuous board, I can say it is more about your technique than it is about the board.

The real question I am posing is if improving your riding is the final objective, would you be willing to step "backward" and learn proper basics with a better teaching tool, or is there too much of an addiction to the "coolness" of a 3 stage rocker?
(Flame on)

I go back & forth but have been enjoying the fruits of the 3-stage. I agree, there is a ton of people who hear the pros ride 3 stage & so therefore they must as well. It's like having to have a Parks board... Good post Sean.

then there are inbetweens to consider: subtile three stage and aprupt continous etc etc blah blah. i'm prety much a beginner, i ride a continous b/c i likes the consistancy of it till i get the basics down real good. its probably cause i'm not really good yet, but the board i'm rideing now (obrien vision) gives just about as good of pop as and of the various three stages i've tried out, but again, i suspect thats just me..

i suck, but i do prefer the pop of a 3-stage. i rode a few continuous rocker boards, but ultimately, i went back to 3-stage...not because of the "cool" factor, but for its pop.

Iam totally with you Sean. I started the season on a motive with a 2.6 continous rocker. Went to a parks because I decided I need help getting air. Subsquently spent about 2 months getting bucked and thrown all over the shop, landing on my face and generally progressing backwards.

This was cool for at the time cos 'I was learning to ride the new board'. Eventually woke up switched back to the motive and started to get proper air. By that I mean smooth contisent hang time on both sides. I can take it big up and down wake to wake or charge out into the flats depending on the cut I use - and the best thing is knowing what is going to happen everytime - pretty much. Couldnt get that with a three stage.

Funny thing is I used to feel abit special putting on a parks, cos its a parks, but then discovered that most ppl dont look at your board only the riding you do on it, so you need to suck it up and admit that a board wont do poop unless you can ride.

This is my theory:

The type of rocker board that you learn to ride on is the kind of board that you will ultimately prefer.

I've never owned a continuous board, always a 3-stage. I've ridden continuous boards but just never felt like you should when you find the board you want to ride. I went from an '02 Byerly 137, to an '02 Origin Skull 138, back to the Byerly, to an '03 Substance 141, to an '04 Substance 138, to an '05 Ricky G 142. The only rocker that I feel like hindered my riding was the Byerly rocker. I thought I liked that rocker until I rode the Substance.

So to answer your question Sean, no I'm not willing to take a step backward and learn proper basics with a better teaching tool, because I am too addicted to the coolness...and the pop, of a 3-stage.

Alot of the 3-stage boards have different rocker as well.

The Absolute rocker feels totally different (better to me) than the Parks or Byerly or even the Era. Hyperlite uses the terms "subtle" and "abrupt" as stated by Joe.

Its all preferrence. I can get more pop out of my Gonzales than a Parks. Thats why I got rid of it. I found that riding the Parks gave me bad habits. I Do think alot of people take 1 step forward and 2 steps back when the get a new board. Especially a rookie on a 3-stage board.

Where exactly the rocker line is, makes a difference as well. I cant figure out why Absolute is sooooo much faster than all of the Hyperlite 3-stage boards. Its awesome.

I've always rode and loved continuous rocker boards, and actually I'm scared to try a 3-stage board. Well not scared, but I just don't want to have to re-learn how to ride a board, and have to change the techniques I've spent years learning. I'm pretty much the "if its not broke don't fix it," kind of guy.

Hmmm, I wonder if I could even tell the difference. And I wonder how much of the overall board design would be what I would be observing vs. the just diff between cont. and 3stage.

Thane, have you ever ridden a TFD/3DS, a team or a trip?

i started on a 3-stage then after while changed to a continous and really improved my edging and poping and then went back to my old 3-stage and it was insane because it poped alot better and i could do everything i learned on the continous higher. that was when i was learning the basics and then my first board broke so i went back to the continous and it did pop well just different then i just got my new board which has a 3" 3-stage and i just love the pop and the way it rides.

you're right rich and i've been trying to tell my dad he needs to go to a continous to help him progress better but he thinks he needs the 3-stage because alot of people have one.o well he can think what he wants

I've ridden a TFD, and a trip. I felt more comfortable on the Trip, but not near as comfortable as I did on my Substance 141.

I started on a continuous (CWB dragon slayer) and it has good pop, but I was just a beginner and didn't know any better. Then I got a Parks and that board just pops. Now I ride an the Absolute (great all around board) and all of our crew tells me I get just as much air as I did on the Parks. I don't think so but it might just be the feeling the board give you off the wake. I jumped on the Slayer last weekend and this board it just so much fun. No as much air but way smooth.

I rode a continous for the last season and learned the basics of edging and cutting then this year in April I switched to my Byerly 3-Stage and I admit I'm a slave to Hyperlite but there pretty much the only boards offered where I live. Another reason I got this board is I didnt want to have to keep taking baby steps and buying a more abrupt rocker everytime I got a little higher and comfortable. I think once I wear down my Byerly I'm going to explore the realms of these other brands you people speak so highly of.

I was just wondering which one you liked the best out of all of those.

Another question for those who started with continuous then switched to 3 stage: How much time did you wait? and What tricks could you do by the time you switched to a 3 stage?

I don't really know about your theory Thane. I rode continuous boards before they even had 3 stage rockers. I progressed well on them & then I switched from the Motive(then Belmont) to the Origin Weddington Dragon. Talk about a major difference! My first ride on it was in a contest & I did really well. I then switched back to the continuous BS Assassin and then to the CWB Absolute. The Absolute was a Hybrid of all the boards I'd ridden before. It has all the features I've come to love. It's fast like the Assassin, big pop like the Weddington, smooth like the Belmont. It's funny how many different boards there are and how different each one rides. Even the ones that look similar ride vastly different. I bet I could find a continuous I like as much as my Absolute, but really see no reason. Once you've had honey you never go back to sugar.

w/ continuous - i had ts180, hs grabs, hs broll
then switched to 3-stage - hs&ts180, hs&ts grabs, hs broll, tantrum, hs raley, hs360, batwing

(Message edited by dakid on September 10, 2004)

Joe ~ and you suck? I can't wait till I have a bag of tricks like that. NICE

well, what i failed to mention was that i didn't ride nearly as much as i did in norcal, and don't ride as much now in socal, so i've lost the majority of my tricks.

i finally tried a big batwing over labor day weekend...first legit try in a loooooong time.

well you need to start coming up with Ed and I. I will drop you a line the next weekend we go.

I rode nothing but continuous until my last board, but that's because they started making the Absolute in a 3 stage. I wouldn't hesitate to go back to a continuous board at all. In fact when it comes time to demo again, I want to ride a couple of continuous boards just to see what it's like.

The type of rocker doesn't really influence my decision on a board at all. I go with size, dimensions, and fin configuration to start, then let the over all feel on the water make my decision for me.

As far as the transition from the two types of boards, I have progressed, but I am 99 percent confident I could have done the same on any intermediate/advanced board made.

A lot of this stuff is in your head.

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quote:

A lot of this stuff is in your head.

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i concur.

i switched from continuous board to a 3-stage because its fin config, its design, and rocker size, not rocker type. i demo'd and it happened to work out for me.

I agree with you Brian. You should find a board that feels good and makes you confident because of how it feels. I just wonder at how many people feel confident in a board only because it is 3 stage, and the most aggressive 3 stage is "cool". I know most people won't agree with me but I think that most people switch to 3 stage too early because they want to get a board that they will grow into as opposed to a board that feels good in the current time.
In reading the Valhalla thread, some people seemed to have a completely closed mind in terms of what a professional wakeboarder was trying to say. Most people would benefit from using a continuous board because the board will (1) be more consistent and (2) feel smoother (possibly faster) because of its shape in the water.

I switched from a belmont to a 2003 Byerly because of my smaller, steeper wake and have seen a decent improvement of my riding skills (still intermediate at best). The pop is much better and it doesn't seem stuck to the water like the belmont. The only knock is the Byerly is much slower, especially in windy or choppy conditions. I really don't pay attention to what the pros ride, I get almost all of my advice reading posts on wakeworld.

"Even the ones that look similar ride vastly different."
This is a very important point Stephen made. Which is why you need to demo before you buy.

I switch from Cont' to three stage all the time, I suppose I'm just used to both. I do prefere continous rocker but right now I'm riding a board with a huge three stage rocker and I feel fine on it(and it was really cheap and all I could afford). Rocker is only part of the board, there are other factors aswell that contibute to weather or not I like the board. IMO these blended rockers like you get on the Nelson, TFD and Demented are the way of the future.

i've wondered about changing to a 3-stage rocker for as long as i've been riding (2.5yrs). mostly because i'd read that 3-stage boards were better for those whose style was more about w2w than going big into the flats - and since i consider myself a person who goes smaller rather than bigger, i figured i might be a 3-stage candidate.

however, for pretty much all of my riding time i've ridden my current board, an 02 belmont. i rode a friends and liked it, so i bought one. i've demo'd quite a few other boards, including 3-stagers like the absolute and the byerly. the absolute felt better (especially the 135). the byerly buck was ridiculous and far more than i could control at the time i tried it (about a year ago).

but both felt very slow to me compared to the belmont. having demo'd the absolute 02 135 and 141 recently, i remember how much work it felt like to get any speed at the wake.

like kristian i suspect blended types are the way of the future and as such have been eager to demo the tfd and the demented. just haven't had the chance yet.

as has been mentioned before, look at some of the guys that consistently go huge - murray and shapiro. both continuous rocker riders. of course, darin would go big if you put him on a 2x6.

but the first time i rode behind a loaded nautique i understood why murray rode a continuous rocker...

(Message edited by deepstructure on September 11, 2004)

Chris ~ The 02 Absolute felt better for you because it was a continuous.

Damn! This is one of the best threads I have ever seen on WW. I ride a lot of different boards every year and agree that continuous and the "blended" rockers are much more consistent for the vast majority of riders.

I used to ride 3-stage (back in the blue & white Byerly days) but as wakes have gotten bigger I started to have "great" days and the next I would be landing on my head every other jump. I switched to continuous (for the most part) a few years ago, and now I am hooked on the progressive (that's what we call it) rocker on the Demented & Valhalla.

Some people like the "hit" of the 3-stage. others like the cool factor, hell 3-stage boards just look cool with all that rocker - but really with today's wakes there is no "need" for 3-stage to get big air...

I started on an old universal series... Juvi 131 and now ride an 02 premier 140 that Ive ridden for 3 years. Premier has a little more pop and taught me how to edge correctly and not rely on fins but I could cross right back to the Juvi I am confident. I ride my friends byerly from time to time... an 02, now I cant stand how it rides, just inconsistent. I want something new but am so in tune to the premier and it is so consistent I can't break away from it. I need something more loose than the old premier finless, that is quicker and has more pop.
I rode a Transcend 2 weekends ago and it felt VERY slow and difficult to build speed into the wake and so foreign with the pop, edgy and unforgiving I couldnt handle it. I suspect bindings may have been a factor, the transits feel much too high off the board for me but my friend who just started riding this year hardcore with me jumped on that board and owned it. Hes been trying a cork ole 5ish/broll to revert deal, lands it 3rd try behind the centurion we were behind. I love blended rockers, I can ride Froggy's board, which is a 131 as consistent as my board, thats a big size difference, its just the feel. But I am open to suggestions, I need to try some boards when I get home from school next, some people have motives, evos, prodigies.
I agree with everyone though, proper technique should equal sufficient air no matter which board.

ant, are you going by the wakeworld board guide? the guide does say that for the 135 - but it says 3-stage for the 141, which i believe is right. the absolute has never been a continuous rocker board in my knowledge.

2002 CWB Absolute 141

Length: 141.00 cm/55.51 in.
Mid width: 42.98 cm/16.92 in.
Tip width: 25.68 cm/10.11 in.
Weight: 3.49 kg/7.70 lbs
Rocker: 6.99 cm/2.75 in. Skill level: Intermediate/Advanced
Warranty: Limited Lifetime
Tip type: Bat Tail
MSRP: $420.00 USD
Rocker type: Continuous

Fin configuration: 4 molded, center bolt on each end
Weight range: 160 lbs. and up
Stance width range: 46.99 cm/18.50 in. to 62.23 cm/24.50 in.
Construction: Fiberglass/Graphite composite, C.A.P.T. technology, Baydur poly resin core and ultra-light Unibond construction
Company website: CWBWakeboards.com


I could be wrong. anyone else know for sure?

2002 absolutes were cont' (now known as the pure) In 2003 CWB put a 3-stage on it.

thank you kristian

and yet now the pure is also a 3-stager? weird...

I guess they changed the mold then.

I started of with a Byerly..spent a season on it. Got incredibly frustrated. Went to a 03 Belmont...OMG. The improvments were immediate

That can probably be said for 90% of the public.

I am a beginner
I have begun my riding on a LF DLX 03: felt unconfortable, instable, awkward.

bought a HL Temet 04 that I have try before: love it my riding in the same year progressed faster, felt confortable

Now I try to go W2W with the Temet with a SAN 02 (21 MPH), I have so mutch difficulties going to the other wake (go for 75% on the W2W) BUT I can predict my landing and how the board feels.

Tried again the DLX, I have more POP but I don't feel the board.

After seing Shaun going big on a Temet in FL, why do I need a 3 stage? I know my technics sucks a bit but I need to work on it.

Maybe I would take a Parks and a W2W would be so easy but.... will it be easer for the rest? I doubt it.
I was told no to touch Parks's board and I was told why: Parks is Parks ;)

And it seems by what I read here in the forum that people are going back to Continous Rockers.

So I will stay with my Temet setup and be more technical rather then going big without the proper technic (and have less injury ;))

from a BEGINNER ;) that love the sport

Stick with the temet and shorten your rope length. Once you're consistently going w2w at the shorter rope length with proper technique you can lengthen the rope out a little more.

with the '05 LF team board it's continuous but doesnt it have the pop like a 3 stage and also, dont most 3 stages tend to ride more loose feeling than continuous? I was directed toward the team by someone and am thinking about getting it, i wanted to switch from my current juvi, to a 3 stage but was directed to the team and told it kinda acts like a 3 stage as far as its pop goes??

I currently ride a TFD and a couple of weekends ago I tried a LF Balance. I really liked the Balance, but I was getting more pop with the TFD. Probably has something to do with my riding style, but I still really like the feeling of that Balance.

I've been leaving my Absolute at home and riding the Prodigy instead. I've actually been riding the Prodigy better for some reason. It lands a little harder, but I think it makes me focus a little more on the pop technique.

thats weird. I had an 04 Prodigy and hated it. It was the ONLY cwb board that I havent liked.

J-Rod, what other boards compare to the LF Team, meaning continous rocker but is also not a lame board, i.e. HL movement.

I'm sad to say I have never ridden any LF boards. My dealer stopped selling them.

I have been riding for about 10 years. I have tried the 3 stage but have not switched because I have not wanted to spend the time to get used to the 3 stage.

I ride the Belmont and love it. I have tried a 3-stage once. My experience was that it didn't fit my riding style, I found it slow, and then on the pop it was not as smooth-feeling as I find my Belmont. Although I might have been higher, I felt I had to work a lot harder on the cut and to control the board and it didn't feel natural.

toolfan i agree - i've never really liked the prodigy, although i haven't tried a model later than 01 probably. the newer prodigy's look like absolutes to me. how different are they jrod?

I actually thought they (Absolute/Prodigy) rode fairly similar. Sometimes I forget what I'm riding and just go with the flow but... the speed seems the same to me. I do think the Prodigy lands slightly harder. The Prodigy seems to have a little less pop also, but it seems to help me keep my board flat in the air, which looks and feels better imo.

The 04 Prodigy supposedly has a 3 inch rocker. You would never guess it buy looking at it. The board was super loose for me and found myself slipping out from under the board. It was hard for me to charge the wake. It was the only new board that I had to ride with fins. I ride all my boards finless so I dont think that it was my technique, I edge very well. Well enough anyway.

It probably just didnt fit my riding "style". It really does lend itself to surface tricks though.

Tool you ride the Abolute with no center fin? I tried. It was crazy loose.

J-rod,
when I do ride it, ya, no fin. For now, I'm sticking with my Gonzales.

j-rod ~ I took off my center fin to try it out and like you said "it was crazy loose"

how funny, im with you toolfan. when i demo'd the absolutes i took out the center fins. didn't feel crazy loose to me at all - but then i ride my belmont that way. but then i do like a loose feel for a board.