How long till the first electric wake boat

My guess 10 Year's Whats your's

I expect diesels to be more common in 10 years, but electrics, I think, are waaay in the future.

I'd buy one today with these gas prices...be a lot easier to hear the music.

maybe when hyperlite releases hoverboards

Electric + Water =

I think with the rate that new battery technology seems to be coming out I could see it comming out sooner than you think.

How cool would a solar charged-electric boat be? I think with battery technology and solar technology things could happen in a relatively short time. Only problem is that there isn't any drive for it from the manufacturer's.

I think it'll take a radical price increase in fuel and a drop in demand before the development begins. Realistically, it'd be the best thing you could do with a boat. Electric motors have un-real amounts of torque and could turn any speed needed. Also, no need for a trans or any driveline components.

(Message edited by guido on February 09, 2007)

The local Epic dealer actually mentioned that they are looking at next year... 6 hours of water time before it needs to be recharged I think he said???

Just the fact that the boat wouldn’t be putting chemicals into the water and Co poisoning would be a thing of the past. We could finally all get back to teak surfing.

I thank we will see the Hybrid boat here in the next 5 years once they figure out how to get more power out of that system.

I was also told Epic has something in the works...3 electric motors with 400 ft lbs of torque. Not sure if it's true, but that's what I was told.

Not mentioning names, but I have heard rumors...

Could an electric motor the size needed for a boat put out the power that is needed considering the ballast that is ran in many boats? I think it would be great.

Did any one see the MythBusters where they ran a Deisel Benz with both deisel and then with McD's cooking oil and it performed the same? I would love to find out if a regular gas engine could run on something else but it is not really open knowledge.

Boats have lots of drag so regenerative power is not going to happen and that's a big part of electric and hybrid. The other big part of electric is the power available for hard acceleration. This is different for battery design that is to supply constant load. You are more likely to see a recreational runabout several years before a high work load boat like a wakeboard or ski boat.
It is important to decide how to power it too. Wave action while the boat is at dock, water current flow, plug, burning left over pizza boxes...

Bazel, you could run on Propane or Methane. Methane drops the power output lots.

Propane could work instead of Gas? Has anyone tried it?

"Boats have lots of drag so regenerative power is not going to happen and that's a big part of electric and hybrid"

Exactumundo. And battery technology hasn't really changed in ten years as far as hybrid engines. Still Nickle Metal Hydride. I doubt you'll see it anytime soon in boats.

(Message edited by wake upppp on February 09, 2007)

You need pressure tanks for the Propane and a motor designed for unleaded gas that is not fuel injected. You can't store it inside.
Kits are common for trucks
Propane can take a higher compression ratio than gasoline but has slightly less energy at the optimum fuel mix. You don't have lubrication from lead for the valve seats so you need the ones designed for unleaded. I had a friend who ran a pickup on Propane in National rallies because it was the easiest way to get extra power and still license in California.

Just a little hybrid and battery info:
I was at a hybrid training school for Toyota a while back and one of our tasks was to disable the gas engine on a toyota highlander hybrid and run on just the batteries until the car was completely dead. At first it felt like we had turbocharged golf carts but after half a mile we were down to 40 MPH and it was completely dead at just under 2 miles. The battery on those are rated at 500 volts DC. and are roughly 40"x 14"x 6".
Another class i went to was on the fully electric toyota RAV4 EV. On a full charge driving on level ground they had a maximum range of 75 miles. The battery was the full width and length of the floor board and was rated at 273 volts. After one year they stopped production after several incidents of the floor getting so hot the carpet melted. all rav4 ev's were recalled and destroyed.

so unless someone is going to have a 210volt charging station at their house and they only want to be at the lake less than 2 hours, we're just not ready for fully electric boats. I wont even get into the possibilities of melting fiberglass.

Now that's neat real info. See we don't even have to start flaming a boat to entertain ourselves.
Thanks SKjunky

I think nuclear power is the only way to go, the navy uses it in their boats, why can't I

At this point it seems logical to submit the idea of a sailboat (natural convex V hull) with solar cell sails to charge the launch motors needed to pull riders out of the water. They all run weighted keels and the pontoon boats and fishermen have to yield you the right of way!

I wonder if I can get one in orange?

Supra,

Actually the Navy only uses it in AC Carriers and subs. the surface ships use Gas Turbines. Right now the turbines are connected to the shafts. In the next couple years, the turbines will maintain a charge in a battery area. The ships will move to Electric motors. (VERY big ones)

It's actually already been done. A small company purchased a inboard ski boat a few years back and completely removed the power train etc. They inlaid solar panels and reglassed the fiberglass, the panels were on teh sides and top and charged an immense battery array. Once completed they went looking for a buyer. The highest bidder was either Exxon or BP and it was immediately chopped and made to never go into production. Wouldn't want to mess up our invasion plans of Iraq now would we. Stupid oil companies.

Edit: Bazel, these kits are available for purchase to convert your diesel to bio-diesel. From what Ive heard, they work great and don't mess the engine up or anything. http://www.greasecar.com/

(Message edited by Stephan on February 09, 2007)

well if batteries are the problem they could just fill the boat up with batteries instead of fat sacks

robb, it was a joke, and by the way last i checked a ac carrier is still a boat but thanks for the correction
big heavy, who killed Kennedy

yeah... there is a difference between a boat and a ship.....

Get on an AC and tell the skipper he has a nice boat..

sorry skipper, thanks for the correction

(Message edited by supra24ssv on February 10, 2007)

Boat..ship..who cares. Does it throw a good wake, can you hear the tunes, and is there a good place to hide the beer.



(Message edited by saroberts70 on February 10, 2007)

(Message edited by saroberts70 on February 10, 2007)

This topic reminds me a little of the story on how Epic was formed.

This sounds like a project for one of us that are angst ridden and wants to make a change in the industry.

What about if they do the same as hybrid cars a motor to charge the batteries and the boat to be powered by both gas/Electric while getting out of the hole and then when its on plain just electric.It would save alot on gas!! I think we would see this before full electric.

My V drive maxum runs on propane and its got an efi gasoline motor. Its set up dual fuel so I can flick between propane or gasoline. I have my tanks either side of the engine and they make great ballast too.

I also rum my landrover on vegtable oil.

Its all about being green and saving money you know.

Anyhow Chris from Epic has plans for a eleccy boat but personally I can't see how its going to work. You'd need a serious power supply at home or the dock to put back in what a days boarding takes out. Solar cells won't even come close.

im down for mother earth...i belive in bun power..the more bun on your boat the lower GPH...give it a try...no bun =lots of gas

I have to agree with the majority here, an electric wake boat is way way off. We don't run light weight boats, we run heavy boats that need torque to do what we want them to do. We're pushing a huge volume of water with them. Wakeboats are way way way down on the list of applications that would benefit more from the use of electic over gas/diesel. A 3/4 or 1 ton diesel heavy duty truck that needs alot of torque is alot higher on the list of applications that will get an electric motor long before we will. I'm not saying it won't come, but many other applications will get it long before we do.

Grant, et al,

http://www.boesch-boats.ch/en/boats/560/sundeck_electric_power.html

I should have guessed that these guys would have it.
Your really want to look at the rest of their boats if you want to see real "bling"

They list no specs regarding the charge time and run time, wonder why...

WoW that thing is Pimpin.




How much are they??? They dont look cheep.

They have a price list PDF link on the right side of the page for all their boats.
They have one with a retractable front rudder for improved manouverability. But think of the shipping cost too.

In the plus side, if you had one of their boats you wouldn't see your boat all over the lake.

I think the little one is about $120,000 and it planes at about 15 MPH

A lot of boats taken back to the UK are converted to Propane because gasoline prices are soooo high there.

Looks like those batteries will make great ballast.

It turns out that this boat maker has been around for over 100 years and the design shape is not a copy of the older popular Criss Craft design. The boat shape is a shape from years of boat making. The boats are not cheep. Starting at over One hunderd grand. Their 24 footers are like 170K with twin engines ect. The look very very well built. I would love to own one. Would I trade in the bling bling for one? No. This would be a great second boat

My wake boat blows through 40 gallons of gas a day. Do you all realize how much energy that is?

Thats 1200 miles on a car that gets 30 miles to the gallon. Yet, electric cars typically have a range of about 100 miles and these cars are super light more like a 50 mpg car.

An electric wake boat ain't happening unless we see a 10X improvement in batteries.

dane what 350 hp equal to a wakeboard boat engine car are you talking about that gets that kind of mpg . I see your point but I think your blowing your example a bit out.

Why even worry about full electric at this point?

I would like to see some companies offering diesel as an optional motor. Diesel engines would make more sense in a wakeboard boat with lots of ballast. With the amount of gas that some wakeboarders buy, the extra price tag would eventually even out after a few years.

Also, I think we will see hybrids before a full electric?

My point is that the amount of energy that you need for a full day on the water is HUGE!.

A gallon of gas provides 120,000 BTUs.
And, 1 BTU == 0.293071 Watt Hours.
And, a gas motor has about 20% efficiency.

A Blue Top Battery provides 50 Amp Hours.
And, Watts == Amps * Voltage.
And, an electric motors has about 70% efficiency.

So,

A gallon of gas provides...

120,000 Raw BTUs * 20% efficiency = 24,000 usable BTUs.

And, a Blue Top provides...

50 Amp Hours * 12 Volts = 600 Watt Hours
600 Watt Hours / 0.293071 Watt-Hours/BTU == 2047 Raw BTUs.
2047 Raw BTUs * 70% efficiency = 1433 usable BTUs.

So, One Gallon of Gas is equal to 24000/1433 = 16.7 Blue Top Batteries

A full day of wake boarding (35 gallons of gas) requires 584 Blue Top Batteries!

(Message edited by greatdane on February 13, 2007)

X 584

At 32 lbs/battery * 584 batteries == 18,688 lbs.

Now thats a lot of ballast!

My point was that cars that are getting 30 MPG are like a 170 hp. Wakeboard boats have 320 hp or more Hp engines. Larger motors are not getting 30 mpg.

A blue top is 55 Amp hrs not 50
But I see your point. Spiral wound AGM battery's like Blue top’s optima are great batteries but a bad example because the battery technology is so much more advanced. I would think a blue top is in the dark ages as far as advanced battery's that power electric cars go's.
Lipo or Nickle metal Hydrate< I would think are far lighter/smaller and provide much more amp hrs
but Im sad to say I think what Kraig said is right on.

Grant, we are in agreement.

I am still glad I did the above research. Its pretty amazing how much power is in a gallon of gas.

Would this type of technology work for a boat?

www.teslamotors.com

Thats a great car. But, its very light weight with a super low drag and only a 250 mile range. Its technology does not apply to a wakeboat.

A seemless integration of gas/electric would be great, much like todays hybrids. If I could go from 35 gallons a day to say 30 gallons (2 x's a week for the 5 month ski season = $600ish per season @ $3.00/gallon for gas). I seem to spend a lot time putting arround in 5mph zones and picking up fallen riders. It would be nice to be doing that under electric power.

cheers,
dc

Dane: yes good work on the #'s its amazing how much power you use that you take for granted

If someone would actually fund the research for companies like Tesla motors, we might actually see an improvement in these alternative engines.

I saw on the news today where Toyota is setting on a very large inventory of the Prius hybrid. Offering discounts on financing and rebates to make them move. Theory for change was increase in production, falling gas prices, and that the EPA is changing the MPG rating from 60mpg to 40mpg following more testing. Hybrid technology has to improve light years before it will hit the water in a wake boat.

dont hybrid autos use generators in the hubs of the wheels to recharge when the electric motor is not in use? if thats the case, how would that translate to a boat?

Anyone want to surf behind an electric boat? How about bow dip one? I am sure they will figure something out I don't want the first hybrid though. However, I'll take the first hoverboard I know I can take that apart and put it back together and have some parts left over.

Ya, car hybrids recapture the slow-down energy.

A boat hybrid won't be able to do that, but a hybrid would be useful for the slow return trip to the fallen rider. The boat would use the gas motor for riding and the electric motor for rider pickup. That could save some gas. How much, I am not sure.

More savings could come from a ballast system that adds mass only when the boat is nearly up to speed. This way the boat would not have to push around all the ballast for the pickup and the startup.

Another more practical gas saver would be smaller more narrow boats -- e.g. the CC SAN or CC 2001. I am still looking for to a narrow 20' wake specific closed bow vdrive.

How about throwing a few paddle wheels on the back and have them do the regeneration for the batteries?

GD, Nautique Excel might do the job for you.

Hydrogen gets my vote. Water is hydrogen and oxygen. When broke down chemically, water can produce hydrogen for the fuel which when burned produced carbon dioxide (plants love that stuff). There is a guy in florida that has found a way to make water work in engines without having tanks filled with hydrogen. He originally invented this for use in acetylene torches.



(Message edited by sea_ray_dave on February 14, 2007)

Here is the video:

http://www.freeenergynews.com/Directory/BrownsGas/WaterFuel.wmv

Yes I have seen that Video it seems to good to be true. And after seeing the DVD "Who Killed the Electric Car" makes you think it wont be long before the Oil company's buy up this tecnology and all its patten's and then NEVER USE IT.

If you havent seen the DVD im talking about you should.
www.sonyclassics.com/whokilledtheelectriccar ·

Trying to satay on topic. But looking at what auto maker's are doing and how far electric cars have come I cant believe that so many people believe that a electric wake boat is SO far off.
Yes Im sure a fully electric wake boat is a Very hard thing to acheive. They dont even have electric cars that have the range of gas burning cars yett so IMO the first electric wakeboats are gonna be limited. Yes your not going to get the kind of range on a electric boat like burning threw 40 gallons of gas a day like Dane suguested. But this is how I see it. Some people go out and Wakeboard all day long (heavey users) and burn threw a tank of gas sometimes 2 in one day. Is a electric wakeboat for them? NO. Some people like myself (light user's) that get to go out all the time dont need to wakeboard all day long. A limited use wakeboard boat. Lets say a boat that would let you wakeboard for a few hrs and then just be able to cruze. As the battery tecnology gets better the wakeboard time would improve. Upgraded batterys would improve runtime ect

Eric, water is H2O. It can be broken up into H and O through electric energy (a common high school experiment). It can then be put back together through an explosion. The result is physical energy, heat energy and water. There is no carbon (C02) in the equation.

BTW, France is heavily nuclear (compared to us). Their plan is to use nuclear to produce electricity (for homes/businesses) during the day and hydrogen during the night (for cars). Its a good plan since nuclear does not like to be throttled quickly. The US is seriously behind here because of the Jane Fonda syndrome.

TVA and the Univ of Tenn Chattanooga are building a facility to make hydrogen, it will use electricity from TVA nuclear plants at night to make hydrogen. While hydrogen solves one problem from cars with polution. Current technology uses either natural gas or electricity to create the hydrogen. In total it is less efficient than other forms of power.

WOW Those Boesch boats are awesome and they do show one set up with a flyhigh to wakeboard and they say they are popular for wakeboarding and waterskiing and they are electric...kinda made monkeys out of alot of posters here. The future is here now.

"The future is here now."... actually it's been around for a while but big money keeps it from actually "arriving"...

Andymac: I was thinking the same thing as you. But the BOESCH boats are far from what most people would say is a true wakeboard boat. I would guess that they have the ability to pull you up ect but I dont think many people will be trading in their X-star for one of these boats.
I do think it is a great start for other boat makers to take notice

it seems that they are designed because in europe there are restrictions on combustion engines in certain lakes(probably drinking water sources) Imagine a silent engine in your boat, it looks like they could get alot more batteries in there and even another electric motor or a bigger one...do you see how small it looks?
How long before it is against the law to put your combustion engine boat in a drinking water source? since most of california boating happens on drinking water sources...these electric boats could be your only hope...although here in California they just outlaw the powerboat. I used to be able to foot across Lexington Reservior off Hwy 17...then only on even days then not at all..I ride a snowmobile so I know about getting your riding areas taken away blaming pollution and noise...it happens...and will happen more and more since the Delta will be more and more a battleground over its water and who gets to use it and how it gets used. They are talking peripheral canal again so you never know...