Tower Speaker Selection - HELP

One of my major projects for the winter is to replace all the OEM Clarion speakers in my boat. Last spring, I replaced the Clarion HU, Amps and Sub with a Pioneer Premier HU and Kicker Amps (KX850.4 and KX600.1) and Sub (Solobaric 12" L5). It is now time to upgrade the speakers (interior and tower).

For the interior, I am planning to go with the JL M770-CCS (2 pair).

For the tower, I have looked at individual cans and the fiberglass enclosures. In my search for the "perfect" tower speaker system, I have flip-flopped between fiberglass enclosures and separate cans. I am leaning towards a fiberglass enclosure and really like the Liquid Trends 4-6x9 or 6-6x9. While searching and talking to manufactures of fiberglass enclosures (Liquid Trends, Wetbox, Tidal Audio), I noticed a lot were pitching the 6x9s rather than the 6.5" speakers. They are saying the 6x9s produce more mid-base and will project the sound out to a ride 50-60 feet behind the boat better than the 6.5" or 7" round speakers.

What are everyone's thoughts? Is the fiberglass enclosure the way to go or are separate cans with the JLs better, for my intended useage? The boat is used for cruising around with family and friends and anchoring with other boats (50%), wakeboarding (25%) and surfing (25%).

Thanks for all your help.

I am running those same Jl speakers in my Malibu with a JL 300X4 and JL w- 7 and Amp.
I had two boxes on my last boat. Both with 6X9,
I currently put the wetsounds Pro 80's on the new boat and they sound better than a box and a lot less weight and wiring.
Keep it simple and clean and you will have less problems.

it really depends on what you want. if you want to hear music while riding and like the box look check out something like hse trident boxes. hse has plenty of midbass since its an enclosure. i really dont know why anyone would bother with 6x9's on tower to me its a waste of money. pro audio is the only way to go on the tower. and you can always turn it down to accomodate your situation. you can turn up 6x9s but so far.

I am with Alan about going with the Pro Audio. It cost a bit more to go that route but you will be happy in the long run.

I was staying away from Pro Audio equipment because I have heard it does not reproduce music as well as car audio. It is more like the sound you hear at concerts.

I do want to hear it while boarding but I also don't want to blow everyone out of the back of the boat.

I guess I would say I am more into clarity and a clean sound rather than blasting the music across the lake.

Should I still look at Pro Audio or stick with the car audio type stuff?

Tom, I'm sure Mikeski will come on and give you more knowledgable advice. For a simple answer, car audio is design for close projection of sound(in your car). Pro Audio is designed to project the sound out to greater distance. So to get the sound back to the rider you really should use Pro Audio.

Tom- With the towerspeakers I would go with what will be loud and hook up a PAC controler to it so you can turn it up and down depending if you have a rider or not. An then you go with the good stuff inside the boat. Nothing will reproduce like car audio in an open air environment so loud does become more of an issue with a boat vs quality. This way you can hear the music while driving. It is a give and take. Pro Audio will let you hear the music. I know some guys on here have used Non Pro Audio and had great success, but in my experience I have not been behind a boat with regular can's and speakers that was even close to the Pro Audio. If you are using the Towerspeakers to compliment your system in the boat then Pro Audio is not the way to go either. Hope this helps. It is always fun putting together a new system.

OK - I have been researching tower speaker options, with everyones help here on WW, for the better part of Jan. and Feb. Here is what I have learned.

1) If I go with car audio equipment, most people say the 6x9s are the way to go. They produce a more full, rich sound and will project sound farther than the round speakers.

2) Most people's choice in 6x9s are the Polk Momo MMC690. Any other choices out there?

3) I have also looked at fiberglass speaker enclosures. If I go that route, it will probably be the Liquid Trends 4 - 6x9s or even 6 - 6x9s, loaded with the Polk Momo MMC690s

4) If I go with Pro Audio equipment, it will probably be the WetSounds Pro80s (2 pairs) or Pro485s (2). However, that is definately going to require more power than I currently have in my KX850.4.

The interior speakers will probably be either the JL M770-CCS or Polk Momo MMC6500s.

Anyone have any comments or other suggestions.

Tom, I have the Rubicon 350's and the sound is awesome to the rider with good reproduction IMO. It will get loud in the boat also, but peoples definitions of too loud vary.

I'd go with Wetsounds no questions asked.

I had the Deafcon V speakers two years ago, the Rubicon 350's this year and I have the WetSounds Pro 80's on the tower now. Skylon's 350's and Wetsounds 80's have an unbelievable range. I don't need too much volume, just enough volume for the rider to hear it clearly. That is the reason for only going with the horn based Skylon and Wetsounds systems.

Spencer, are the Wetsounds better sounding and louder than the Rubi's? If so, anyone want to buy a set of Rubi 350's?

Spencer,

Can you give a more detailed write-up of your comparison experience?

I'm considering swapping out my Rubi 450s for a set of Wetsounds.

I recently was in the market for a Pro Audio set up; looking at the NVS, Wetsounds, and HSE. All are very, very nice. Very clear, and very loud. I went with the HSE because of the sound and finish. Wetsounds were a bit too "bright" sounding, and I didn't care for the finish on the NVS.
If your looking to go the pro audio route, I would recommend a gain control knob

I just purchased a set of JL M770-CCS for my boat. Having them installed next week hopefully. I will let you know how they sound.

As for tower speakers, My friend has JL's on his tower and there pretty damn loud. Cant go wrong with JL. IMO

Hi Tom,

Lots of good honest advice in the posts in this thread, nice to see a clean thread on tower speakers without too much bias.

The first thing I do when I see a tower speaker inquiry is to check the profile in the post to see if I can get an idea what kind of boat the system will go on. My recommendations for an I/O with quiet underwater exhausts are very different from my recommendations for an X-Star with an unbaffled big block. If you intend to project sound to the rider your biggest obstacle is the exhaust sound from the motor.

What is the ratio of tower speaker's intended use, 50/50, 60/40, 80/20, rider/boat occupant? My ratio is 80% rider/20% boat, I have boat speakers for the boat occupants, I can attenuate the tower speakers if needed using the fader knob on my EQ.

You will find a significant difference between pro-audio and car stereo. Determine which route you want to go before you worry about which brand or things will get really confusing. If the intended sound for the rider is less than 50% of your need you may want to go the car stereo route?

The most common mis-conception is that Pro-Audio gear requires more power. More accurately, pro-audio gear handles much more power. You will achieve significantly higher volume levels with less power using a highly efficient pro-audio solution. The tower output becomes consuming and you will probably find yourself wanting more and more. You can a set of Pro-80's with a 150w/channel amp and get more output than you would with four 6x9s running off twice that power. Keep this in mind when you are pricing amps and speakers, the pro-audio solution might be more economical than you think.

It is always easier to turn down a strong tower speaker than it is to turn up a weak tower speaker...

If you want to send me some specifics about your boat, usage patterns, music tastes, and budget, I am happy to answer your questions.

Mike
mikeskiw@gmail.com

Mike -

Thanks for the info. I completely agree with you on the profile idea. When I get a response from people, I immediately look at their profile to give me a better idea of where they are coming from. I will update my profile today.

To answer some of your questions. I have a 2002 MasterCraft X30 with the L-18 Big Block. I absolutely love this engine. Great power and torque for boarding and surfing with 8 guys in the boat and 2,000 lbs of water.

Usage Patterns: I already have 4 speakers inside the boat. JL M770-CCS (2 pairs) running from 2-channels of my KX850.4. I currently have 4 tower speakers (MC OEM Clarions) that you really can not here even surfing because, as you stated, the noise from the L-18 is fairly loud. You definately can not hear it boarding. My goal is to be able to hear the music CLEARLY when boarding.

Music Tastes: I'm 40 - anything but hard core rap.

Budget: $2,000 or below.

My big concern is whether the 2 remaining channels from my KX850.4 will run a Pro-Audio setup. The amp puts out 180W per channel at 2 ohms.

Again, thanks for the help.

Tom,
I think that will be enough power to run a good portion of the pro audio stuff. Check them all out an see what sounds best.

Tom that amp will put out over 225rms at 2 ohms. I have not seen a kicker 850.4 put out less than 950 watts. The one I have puts out 997 bench tested. You should be fine. If it still isn't enough buy another amp for your cabin speakers and bridge that sucker to the Pro audio's.

Tom,

Thanks for the info, that makes a huge difference. Given your boat, I would say bite the bullet and go pro-audio, that's the only thing that is going to provide adequate volume over the motor in your boat. I would suggest the WetSounds Pro-485's. My buddy has an X-30 with Deafcon Vs and has nothing but trouble with them. He is running a Rockford Amp, that's part of his trouble. I would suggest you dedicate the Kicker to the boat and get a different amp for the tower.

If you don't like the looks of the WetSounds go with the NVS Entity 1010, some find their look to be more in tune with the MC billet looks.

For amps I have a few suggestions:

Pioneer PRS-D4100F (300 x 2 @ 4 ohms)
Eclipse XA4000 (350w X 2 @ 4 ohms)
Avionixx AXT 800.4 (400w X 2 @ 4 ohms) This is the amp I run, it pusher the Pro-485s very hard. It's tripath so it's a bit quirky, makes funny noises from time to time, not for everybody.
Another good amp might be the Alpine PDX 4150 but you are starting to talk real money, over budget with the speakers.

All of these amps are available from woofers etc. for about $50 above e-bay prices and they give you a warranty and support.

I have heard that Kicker amps can clip badly causing the speakers to blow (smelled the speaker smoke).

Another option is the ARC Foose FD4150, 350w x 2. Tons of other's too but you have some good reliable bang for the buck amps listed here.

I even saw an ARC 2500 XXK on e-bay, that's a very powerful amplifier.

Mike what Kickers did you find were cliping badly? I have all Kicker stuff based upon what my shop recommened (they also have Arc, Focal and other makers) but liked it best for the boat. They all are boat owners and do over 200 boats a year. I have the ZX have they had problems?

Are the Pro-485s stereo input?
Wounds only a single horn cause the highs to be summed to mono??

Angry Mike,

The 485 is a single input. Each 485 is 4 ohms.

Feel free to e mail me at twhite@wetsounds.com if you have any other questions.

Tim
Wet Sounds

go with these!!!!

i think some times people confuse "power" & "high current"..specs can be very misleading...

the best analogy i can think of is horsepower vs torque...

most lower quality car amps can not produce high current for extended period of time let alone "run near all out" (high power)..

the circut topology and quality of parts wont last (ie discrete circuts, regulated power supplies etc)

is high quality / high power car amps needed for tower speakers that are have pa drivers ? yes (duh !! )most systems i have been around, the volume it is at or near all out on full range drivers..

-most cool running car amps (class d)that are designed to run all out is for subwoofer use
-amps are designed to run full range run pretty hot (class a/b)
-the class t amps are few and far in betten (arc discontinued their class t (didnt work) and zapco c2k series is the only one i am aware of that works

take a serious look at a crown power amp or most pa amps... they are typically a very, very cool running VERY HIGH POWER class b or class h design (they aare not known for fidelity)and the power supplies are massive compared to car audio amps and can run at high volumes for long periods of time...

there are only a few really "high current car amps" on the market and have a tendancy to be the most expensive (stable into 1 ohm)...

Caddy what is your take on the ICE amps?

http://www.eclipse-web.com/amp/ice.html

wow...eclispe made a full range class d...

i wonder how it sounds and

the xa4000 is 350x2 in 4 ohms...

i dont know how they are... previous amps by eclipse have been a little on the polite side and geared toward fidelity (runs hot !!!)... they arent that popular (made in japan) compared to others(usa) but they are reliable and compact..

it would be really curious to see how they would be.. eclipse makes very good sounding gear for a reasonable price (love their head units & subs)..

Tom,

Great thread. I am interested in hearing what you ultimately go with. I am basically looking at the same angle as you. First and foremost a family boat, occasionally with kids, occasionally without. Mostly for boat sound and less for riders.. (75/25) I think from reading various threads that I will be heading down the car audio route, since I want nice, clean sound in the boat. I got a 07 VLX so I don't have to battle the engine noise as much. If anyone has their 2 cents on the Illusion tower and something that will fit in the stock mounts, holler at me.

Thanks, and WW is invaluable.

Aquahawk -

I think I am going down the path of car audio as well. While I like the Pro Audio stuff (HSE and Wetsounds), I really do not have the need for it. I have small kids (ages 4 and 6) and they are on the boat most of the time. I do board and surf early in the AM but that only makes up 25% of the boats useage. The rest of the time is spent with family and friends. I also do not want to add another amp to the system because I really do not have the room. I am leaning towards a 6x9 setup - probably 4 Polk Momo MMCs.

tom,

just as a headsup since you have kids... the 6x9 setup might be better in your situation....

if you are looking at coaxial hclds(nvs or wetsounds) they may be a little too loud in the boat for your use... the throat body used in the coaxial hcld is shortened and lets a lot of sound into the boat and passengers.. this is lessened with a standard hcld body that has a bigger throat.. like anything, i would suggest listen to both if you should head the hcld way..

however, i have heard 4 6x9's and it they get loud (great combo) with the proper amplifaction..

btw, image dynamics is coming out with 6x9's...





(i have this set and they get loud !!!)..

Tom,

Lucky Devil is an authorized JL dealer and I think you'll find our Jay Series right up your alley. Our Jay series One uses the JL 6.5 coaxial speaker and it's peak power handling is right at 150 watts. Our Jay Series Two uses the JL 770-tcs and will handle up to 175 watts! Regarding marine audio, as you already know from personal experience, JL is the way to go. Check out all the specs and details at:http://http://luckydevildesigns.com/jay_2.php

Another unique feature about our tower audio is that you can custom order a finish to match your boat.

I look forward to hearing from you. You can email/call me if you have any additional questions.

Thanks,

Elliott Dollar
Lucky Devil Designs
Elliott@luckydevildesigns.com
(281)940.0433

One of my issues with HLCD is that no one in the Seattle area carries them. I can not, in my right mind, drop $1K-$2K on a tower speaker setup that I have never heard.

Finally TOM! I found someone in their right mind on here. LOL

No matter how much you have or make, some of these setups (while nice and purty) I could never justify spending my hard earned dollars on. To each their own, but wow.

Tom check with Ski Masters or Bakes or Pacific Nautique or Adrenaline around Seattle, they will have Dbot5 Pro Audio speakers in the next week

Tom,
I just heard the new DBot5 speakers and they were amazing. Check them out for your self if you find a close dealer. If you are in the Portland area come by the warehouse and I would be happy to hook everything up and let you listen.
Thanks,
Spencer

That Centurion looks killer.

D-Unit or Spencer, Does Dbot use the same manufacture has Skylon? The Dbots and the Rubicons look a lot alike. How do they compare?

Ok, here is what I have decided to do for now. Since I can not listen to any Pro Audio setups, I am going the easy route and replacing my Clarion component speakers (6.5" round) in my MC OEM cans with the Polk Momo MMC6500s. I'll have 4 speakers on the tower. We'll see how that goes. I'll report back when I get them installed.

The interior speakers will be the JL M770-CCS, total of 4.

Hey Spence, Any idea what the pricing on the dbot pro audio stuff will be?

I would have to agree that the chrome bezel looks similar to the Rubicon in the picture above. That is a question for D-unit or someone else from Dbot. I have no idea what manufacturing facility the Dbot speakers are produced in, but they are in no way connected with Skylon or Skylon's factory. I do know that the Dbot cans are aluminum and the Skylon Rubicon series uses composite enclosures.

No idea on pricing right now.

Tom -

I literally just got my momo's today from UPS. I also just got my L7. I think I am going to get those Titan Cans too with the MB Quarts in them with the black/chrome. It looks sweet on the Ill X towers.

-AQ

Aquahawk,
Good choice. The Titan speakers will look amazing on the Illusion tower.

Dbot5 manufactures their speakers from the ground up at our own speaker factory. From first look the bezel might look similar to rubicon but it is actually quite different, and the speakers itself are a Pro Audio setup, both 8 and the 6.5 have horns, so there really isn't any comparison in that fact. I put more photos of the speakers up on www.dbot5.com (under 2-24-07 or customer pics/centurion) and yes speakers are on their way to our warehouse as we speak.

WOW . THE D-BOT5 tower speakers look just like skylons all you have to do now is put on a iron cross grill, that will make you the all time bitter...

I'm with aquahawk, heard some titan alpha 1's at the nashville boat show...they were amazing, loud and clear. Of course they had about 7000 in the audio setup too (TNT)...

Skylons are much nicer looking..

iron cross? that is the gayest s#1t i've ever heard, ps you cant even hear a skylons or fusions compared to one 6.5,not to mention the look, SORRY

the d-bot5 tower speakers look like a set of my moms tupper ware dishes with a speaker in them...

LOL !!!!

I have heard the dbot speaks at boatshow. Hands downs the best sounding speaker on the market; they were demonstrating next to every competitor. Whether or not they are in that dudes moms tupperware is irrelevent; I am buying some. Sound is amazing. Plus I dig the aluminum cans.

I saw that Nautique at the Nashville Boat Show. It sounded pretty good, but they wouldn't turn it up that loud for me. I've been deciding on which route to take myself. I have a buddy that owns a CNC shop, and he has offered to make my cans. I bought some polk audio momo 6.5s with the intention to put them in the cans, but now that I have read like every thread on Tower Speakrs I am torn. It seems like it is going to be a pain to wire up 6 speakers, when you can just buy 2 from wetsounds that would blow anything else out of the water.

Are any of you guys members of wakesideriders.com. I just signed on and it won't let me post or PM. It acts like I am still a guest. Do you have to be a user for a certain period of time before you can do anything? I'm a rookie when it comes to this, but I will learn. I signed on to here like last week, and every time I come home from the job I start reading. Got up Sat and Sun at like 5:30, just to start reading.

Justin I will PM you about Wakesiderides.com

Funny how people are saying the Dbot5 looks like the Rubicon. I remember a year or so ago when Skylon made the Rubicon people were freaking about how they copied the Fusions. Same clamp, same can, same looking bezel, etc.. All speakers tend to somewhat look similar. It's not like they can make them look all that different when you start to mess up the sound quality with an odd shaped can. Don't see a similarity in the bezel at all. Skylon and Fusion's look really similar. From these pics, albeit far away, it looks like the Dbot5 bezel is really deep.

I personally am looking forward to hearing the Dbot5's. A friend has some Rubicon 350's and they are loud but really tinny/crashy. Also have heard the same about WetSounds. I'll be interested to hear someone new coming into the pro audio side of things. Anyone know how much they are?

I rode behind my buddies boat two days ago. He has a Rubicon threesome with 250's on the outside and a single 450 on the inside. It sounded pretty good at 75' out but the 450 was definately more piercing than what I am used to hearing, downright painful when I was on the swim deck. Keep in mind I am being very-very critical and he has a big four channel amp with two channels bridged to the 450. I can understand why others on this board are saying 350/450's are not great with kids in the boat. I think the Rubi's and D-Bots may be using a round horn. I have not experienced this with NVS or my Wetsounds (square horned 485's).

I will probably add a fader so he can fade between the 450 and 250s.

hey mike,

Is this the Alpine amp that you were talking about earlier http://www.alpine-usa.com/US-en/products/product.php?model=PDX-4.150&lang=en&tab=F I am about to buy the Pro 80's, will this amp push them with no problem? I will prolly add a 485 later on to make a 3SOME. Do you think I will end up having to buy another amp? Justin @ wetsounds wanted me to buy one of there amps, but I figure I could probably get a better price @ ebay. I like how you can stack alpine amps.

Yes Justin, that amp should do very well, it will probably power a threesome too. If it doesn't then you can just add a 2150. I really liked the new Alpine amps when I was them at CES.

I talked to John @ wetsounds today and he recommended one of these
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=51 26
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=24 4
do you think this would be a better way to go?

Got my stuff today.
Head Unit - Kenwood KTS-MP400MR
Tower Speakers - Wetsounds PRO 80s
Amplifier - Alpine PDX 2150
Kenwood Wired Remote for Transom KCA-RC100MR
Ipod Interface connector KCA-iP500

That alpine amp is pimp. It's like tiny. Perfect to save space. I'm gonna go with the there 4 channel for the boat speaks and the 1 channel for my sub.

THANKS MIKE.

hmm, group purchase on Pro80's....

uhh, pro80 are gay and played out, its about time for something new