Names you dont hear of

How good are Yamaha, Chaparral, and seadoo boats in the wake boarding business up against the leading companies such as master craft Tige and correct craft. I talking about quality not demand.

Dave could we add wakecraft to that list?

Why do you ask?

Those companies are in the industry of making boats. To slap a tower on your boat and call them "in the wakeboarding business" is a bit of a stretch. Their product leaves everything important to be desired.

I would say there is a reason you don't hear that much about them when concerning our sport. The boats most of us ride behind now a days are purpose built to enhance our experience. The boats you listed are as Big Heavy said, just trying to capitalize on the success of the sport. Their boats really have nothing to do with wakeboarding except to grab a few bucks and confuse young and first time buyers into believing that their boats are great for wakeboarding at a fraction of the cost. I have seen too many of my friends pass up 6-7 year old boats to buy a brand new Glastron/bayliner or whatever just to have them end up selling it to get a wakeboat.

As far as answering your question, wakeboats IMHO are built much better than those brands, at least in terms of comfort. I have been in all the brands you mentioned and have never felt as comfortable as I do in a MC, Tige, Bu, CC, etc.

"Their product leaves everything important to be desired."

Really? If I was a kid again I'd be in heaven to have any one of those boats. It's funny how perspective changes over time.

I'm not saying they match an inboard, but a boat, a tower, a platform, a place to store boards, some of them even have cruise control now, what else are they missing? Perhaps inboards are safer than IOs, but jets are safer than inboards, so there isn't much of an argument there. The wake sucks on a jet, but it's a totally different price point boat with some different uses in mind.

DD- I wouldn't consider wakecraft an industry leading company, but they are awesome and companies like that keep the big guys on top of their game. Unless you meant add them to the other list, but I'll assume you didn't, since they make inboards fyi.

"If I was a kid again I'd be in heaven to have any one of those boats. It's funny how perspective changes over time."

I am a kid that didn't want to buy a boat and be disappointed within a year or two, so I saved for an extra season and bought something I won't regret in the later down the line...an inboard. Might as well get it right the first time in my opinion, no matter what your budget is.

Dave, the biggest selling 23' boat in the US is the Yamaha jet. Apparently most people think they are a pretty good boat.
But most people are not trying to buy a wake boat. The wake is just one aspect to them.
Godd boats, each of them, but not designed to be the best at wake sports. You can surf on a wooden door but it's more fun on a designed board.

DD, why don't you change your profile back so it shows your full name (Dan Dulong) and go ahead and state that you are a dealer for WakeCraft. Do you have something valuable to ad to threads or are we only going to hear indirect plugs for WC from you? No wonder Dave Williams deleted your other threads about WC.

Dave(Delta Dave). I guess I could have used something like that or not included my e-mail address, while knowing that if someone looked at the company website they would see mine. If you actually read most of my threads I state that I am wakecraft dealer/owner. So am I to be led that nobody that has anything to do with boats or their accessories can participate here. So if you were a yahmaha rep and you read this post you could not answer. I only asked to add wakecraft because I feel that the big guys monopolize this site. I feel that it is wrong to have boat reviews and not review all boats. Have you ever wondered dave why i never ask what you do? I don't care. You may be a dealer yourself and enjoy cutting up others. I am first and formost a Wakecraft owner and I feel that it only fair that if people have questions about different brands and I have experienced something on the wakecraft that pertains to the thread that I am in my right to answer it.

So you want to add your Wakecraft to the Yamaha, Chaparral, and seadoo boats list? I really dont see WC as a leader in this industry...

DD (Dan Dulong): Several of us have commented on previous threads that you have hidden your identity on your profile. How would anyone know to go to the WakeCraft website and look for you when they don't know here that there is a connection? IMO, you should change your profile and make it clear you are a dealer or get a new screen name and make posts that have something more to offer than your opinion of WC. Of course dealers, distributors and people in the industry do post here and they should. Howver, you're one of the few that seems to make it all about your brand, WC. Many of us have been trying to help you; to explain that if you're going to comment on WW as a WC dealer you need to be more professional and not just sound like you're here to trumpet the greatness of WC. When you sound biased and act like you have an agenda, you lose credibility here and people won't listen to you or respect what you say. That, in turn, is not going to help you with your WC business and sell boats. You have every right to post here. If I was representing a boat brand like you, I would want to sound more professional, experienced and less one-sided.

DD,

Can you list the team riders for Wakecraft? Can you list the major events and local events you sponsor?

Those questions are not sarcastic, they are serious, and those two things are how Wakecraft will step up from also-ran to mainstream manufacturer and earn a ton of respect on this site.

Deltadave hit the nail on the head. I think it's dishonest for anybody affiliated with a company to post anything about that company without being up front with their affiliation. The easiest way to do that is to include that affiliation in their profile. DD, you took hiding your identity a step further by removing your full name, Dan Dulong, from your profile right after the first person identified you as a Wakecraft dealer.

It looks like Wakecraft makes a good product, but it's a shame that you are hurting their name with this kind of subversive spamming.

There is no question that your top of the line V-drives make the best wakeboard boats. That being said... I had an awesome time for years with a $5,000 outboard bayliner P.O.S.

Lets not get to high and mighty, its nice to have the money for the best but the worst can still be a really good time.

There you go Dan Dulong. Straight from the man. Did he explain it any better for you so that you finally get it?

Back to Dave's original question. Obviously those brands are not tow boats and you're not likely to get rave reviews about their wakes from WW. As far as quality goes, Chaparral makes an excellent quality boat. They're also fairly expensive. I'm not that familiar with the quality of SeaDoo and Yamaha. I'm not too keen on jet powered boats so I don't pay much attention to them.

I have got it all along Delta Dave or is it Dave Delta. I forget what you do for a living. Like I said a million times before, I bought a wakecraft and I love it. I agreed to be a dealer rep in New England. I came across this site and wanted to know what people thought of wakecraft. I wanted unbiased opinions. I simply told the truth I own a wakecraft and wanted to know what people thought. To this day I have never sold one or tried to. What really bothered me was the reviews here and at wakeboarding magazine. I sent an e-mail asking why wakecraft was not listed and it was not responded to. So I ask is this a true discussion board or is it whoever pays gets the glory? I ask that of the man.

DD. Is this the point when you start making personal attacks on me? I could be Joe the Plumber, an engineer at Boeing, a sales rep for CC or an accountant. It doesn't really matter. I could even be a boat buyer in your home town and WakeCraft is one that I am considering. Many of us have tried to help you and give you suggestions about how to better represent yourself and your boat line. I see once again you won't address the issue of your profile and revealing to WW who you are. As you wish. Actually you came on WW "innocently" asking what WW members thought about WC. Then when they found you were a dealer and called you out, you changed your name and profile to hide your identity. It appears you are deceitful and have an agenda. On WW we call that spamming. If you are a dealer for WC you don't have an unbiased opinion. People here on WW have told you what they thought.

WC is a small builder and a new-comer to the market. As such, they're not going to get as much press. Yes, others pay to have their boats tested and pay for advertising and that is why they get more press. It's part of the advertising and marketing world. This is a true discussion board and no one is paying on these forums. Everyone has the right to say what they want about WC including you. Anyway, we keep trying to help you, but you really don't seem to get it. If you had integrity, you would update your profile. Dan, this reminds me of an old saying. "There are two type of people in the world: ignorant and stupid. Do you know the difference? Ignorant people can be taught". I hope you're one of the ones that can be taught.

"Those companies are in the industry of making boats. To slap a tower on your boat and call them "in the wakeboarding business" is a bit of a stretch. Their product leaves everything important to be desired."

MC was in the business of making ski boats for years. People slapped a tower on a prostar 205 and added some weight. I don't see anyone not calling that a wakeboard boat.

Can we add Aztec and Chopper boats to that list ?

"is it whoever pays gets the glory?"

It's whoever pays to advertise, gets to advertise. As indicated by the members and the man himself. What else is there to ask???

Even if you pay to advertise, you cannot use the discussion forum to advertise. All everyone is saying is that you need the transparency in your profile to show your WC associations. You should understand that we're trying to help you to comply with the etiquette that is practiced on this site. I was a rook once too and made several mistakes that I was called out on.. it happens. But the more you argue it, the worse it becomes for you and your WC association.

He's right. We're trying to help you to stop hurting the brand you are trying to promote as well as your personal reputation. You don't seem to realize that you're giving yourself and Wakecraft a black eye by not being up front and honest.

How is he hurting Wakecraft? How many more petty online arguements can there be on this web site? I could care less that he is a dealer. I have not read anywhere on this thread from him doing anything out of line. I think he is getting bashed for no reason, and the way it goes on, and on is pathetic. My god. I gave this site up once over the Tige bu**$%&t on here. Now I come back on and there is even more petty nonsense happening. Good grief. Now I guess I am going to take some heat. Oh well. Good luck to you DD. You may be better off with out this site. I think I will be. I look forward to "personal attacks" whatever that means from the internet. I'm in sales if you need that information, and I ride behind a sea ray if you need that too. One more thing, I like Tiges as well. With, or without ballast. I hope there is some good information for some "personal attacks"

Chad, you have 19 total posts...you obviously don't follow the other threads or you would already know about Dan. Your rant about personal attacks is pointless and has no contribution towards what is being discussed.

Nick he has also been a member longer then you so he may just follow and not post. That is what I do, so why are you more "legit"?

My Nelson post was directed at everyone. This thread should be killed.

Wow. That hurts Nick. No I don't follow other posts. I guess I'm the loser then. Sorry.

A couple more not often discussed...
http://www.liquidrideboats.com/
http://www.svfara.com/

ChadBroChill82

Chad, DD started two previous threads regarding WakeCraft. One was long and he basically kept promoting and defending WC. WakeWorld removed them. So some haven't seen those and don't understand the background. On one of those threads, he acted like he just wanted to know what people on WW thought about WC. Then members looked at his profile and at the WC website and realized he was a WC dealer. When called on it, he admitted he was a dealer, but quickly changed his name and profile, apparently to hide his identity. I think it's shady. I don't care that he is a dealer either. But I think when he hides his identity, has an agenda and only posts on WW when he wants to comment about WC, then that's a problem. Many of us have tried to offer him suggestions about online etiquette, being more knowledgeable and professional but he doesn't seem to get it. You're right though, it's time for this thread to end. BTW, I don't have anything against SeaRay, WakeCraft, Tige or you, married or not.

Changing the topic slightly, I've wondered how this site is edited. Does anyone know the standards?

Presently there is a thread called "MC Chapter 11" where some people wonder about the financial health of MC. This is not exactly a flattering topic for Mastercraft. That post appears to be alive, well and unedited.

There also was a recent post along the lines of "It's official, Malibu is for sale" where someone posted info about the sale of a factory building that Malibu uses to build boats. Similar to the MC thread, some people wrote things that were not flattering to Malibu as a business. I notice that this Malibu thread appears to have been deleted.

Just wondering why?

My first thought was that Malibu pays to play on WW and MC does not. WW is a business and BU pays the bills. But perhaps there is another reason, like a real estate lawyer getting his undies in a bundle over some private real estate info being posted on the web or something.

Anyway, I'm just wondering what the standards are? How often do sponsors pressure the site over the content of posts?

LOL. I can understand that. I admit I have not seen any other posts. And though I posted a rant on here, I was under the impression DD was getting heat for asking about WC. I still think his posting on this thread was in good faith. But whatever. It's over. In closing, for me there is too much drama on this site. I wish people could express their opinions one here without so much negativity. I know I am apart of that now too. And for that I apologize. Carry on my wayward sons.

PS. Do you have anything against shorelandr trailers at least

Lakeski: it's an open discussion forum and I don't think manufacturers have much say. It's mostly just opinions here, so I think most threads go on unless they're blatantly offensive, spam or turn into a pissing match. In rare cases WW pulls them (that's what happened to DD's two threads). If someone really started spinning some harsh mis-truths about a manufacturer that builder might ask the Administrator to delete the thread. If we started a thread that said Brand Z is really a P.O.S. or Dealer X is a #^@&(@, I think you might see that thread disappear. The Malibu thread was dicey, but it all got clarified and quashed the rumors, so I'm sure that's why they left it. Chad: don't bail out on WW yet. There's lots of good info on here too. By the way ... Shorelander Trailers!? Just to make you feel welcome, what a P.O.S. rust bucket!

Lakeski,

I'm with you... I started a thread yesterday looking for a guy who I tried to PM about some stuff he was selling... I assumed his email might be bad in his profile, so I started a thread...

My thread was almost instantly deleted. I don't get it. Legitimate post. Not rude. Business with a fellow WW'er...??? Why would that be deleted?

Chad, I wasn't trying to bash you at all, now that others informed you about Dan's other threads I am sure this all makes sense to you.

I live in MN as well...if you ever want a break from riding behind your Sea Ray, you are welcome for a tow behind my MC this summer.

discussions that could have been...

could we ad gecko to the list