INT Style Points

I would like to know if anyone can explain to me what the criteria is for scoring style points in the INT. It seems to me that it is totally left up to the so called style judge and really has no set criteria. I believe that Style points might of had a big impact on how this division turned out. I am not saying it is wrong. I am just asking.

Less then 200 points separate the top 3.

1 Andrew Dyrhood-- 18660-- Arkansas CWB
2 Ryan Anderson-- 18587-- Arkansas Liquid Force
3 Tony Carroll -- 18462-- Nor Cal CWB
4 Kirby Liesmann-- 18100-- Indiana CWB

i judged pro style in arkansas.

It is based mainly on 3 factors,

The amplitude, how high the rider went, did he take wake to wake tricks way into the flats, did he go huge.

cleaness of the run, Were the tricks sketchy, or did he stomp it like he does them in his sleep? Was the grab sloppy, or did he hold onto it like his first born.

and technicality of the tricks. If one guy throws a crow mobe, and the next throws a crow mobe 5 with a grab, then the guy who threw the regular crow mobe isnt going to get as many style points as the guy who grabbed the crow mobe 5

technicality doesn't really hae anything to do with style. Technicality is just that. Isn't that judged seperately?

oh and 200 points, what is that like 3 or 4 surface 180s? The INT is funny.

Shameless plug for CWB Ben

As chief judge of the Outlaw and Pro division for the past 3 years, I can say that this year's results came out exactly how it should. The INT scoring system really worked well this year. As for the 200 pts, Pros are not judged for surface 180's. They are judged off of actual tricks, such as crow mobe 5's, moby dicks, 5's, 7's, and various glides as this year's competition showed. Caleb described the scoring system well as far as "style" goes. There are 3 seperate "style" judges and each score as they see fit based on the 3 seperate things mentioned above. They do not share with each other what they are scoring. The three scores are averaged and that score is what is given to the rider.

Don't get me wrong though, the scoring system is not perfect but what system is. I believe this system to work very well for what the event is about and 99% of the time I feel to be accurate.

For the 3 designated style judges this year for pro was actually based on 5 things which is new for this year. I was one of the style judges this year and they give you a sheet with five different catagories all up to 100 points and you circle the number which best fits that rider. And I agree with Jon I think 99% of the time the style is accurate.

hey judges what did you guys think of the wake and how it was set up?? Do you think it affected the tricks landed? Also what is the importance of not sharing the pass scores at the end of each day? thanks for any insight.

I think that the wake was not AS BAD as everybody made it out too be. I rode expert and i still was able to throw all of my tricks and be happy. The wake had a defined lip, and good shape. The wakes definantly could have been better though

and those who lost and complained about the wake should have taken the advice of everybody on wakeworld and practiced without ballast.


the style points are mainly meant to keep people from doing identical runs and sharing the podium, i think its an effective system personally.

and if your not happy with the scoring, there are plenty of other tournaments that use many different styles of judging and have MUCH larger cash payouts. The INT is just for fun, not about being the best at everything, dont bring bad sportsmanship and trash talking into it.

I need to get something straight. If a person is allowed 5 tricks per pass and those 5 tricks become the score then why if a person falls on one of the tricks, lets say their first attempt, can they still get up and throw 5 more tricks. Yet another rider can not throw 6 tricks and get to drop their lowest trick. Isnt that the same thing? A crow mobe with result of fall is still a crow mobe it just doesn't score because you fell. So trick number one is a "0" score. when you get up you should then only be able to throw 4 more tricks. I hope that makes sense.

Caleb, I am not trash talking at all. I am simply trying to get a clearer understanding of what went on. Part of the fun is the competition and every one enjoys that. That is why they hand out awards. The hard part is some people understand the scoring system better then others. I am just looking for help in learning how to best understand the scoring part of the competition.

Just wondering what the hard scores (no style points) were for the top 4 riders and see what the out come would have been based on trick value. Anyone know?

I rode in and/or behind each boat at the competition. Some wakes were better than others. First of all, any rider that did any type of research about the site should have known the wakes will not be at their full potential. That being said, some wakes were better than others. Part of competing is adapting to the situation. Yes, some of the bigger tricks the rider had to work a little more for but plenty of sweet tricks went down.

In Advanced through pro the rider is only allowed 5 tricks per pass. If the rider falls on their first trick, as you point out Ben C, NORMALLLY the rider only has time to peform 3 - maybe 4 tricks before the course is up. I have VERY seldom seen more than 5 clean, big, upper level trick thrown in the limited amount of space that the course gives you. If the rider can get back up and throw 5 tricks, good for them but I'm betting that will suffer in the style department by rushing.

I think it is a good thing that they don't necessarily lay everything out for a rider after day one score wise. I look at it as a rider should go out their and show their best run every day. May the best rider win, not the one that adapts their run to beat somebody by 25 points.

I have found that the rule book lays out everything very well. Read the rulebook and you will have a good understanding to how things work. As you compete in more and more tournaments you will figure out how things work as well. You can't expect to jump in one or two stops and have the sytem figured out.

INT is a great system going for them on the amateur level and a pretty good payout for pro as well. Look at the age of the competitors out there. Over half I'd say are under 18. Those kids are out there for the fun of it.

I've always thought that the point system is tough to judge. Lets say a rider did a switch grabbed heelside backside 180 10-20 feet into the flats vs. a rider doing any kind of mobe with a grab w2w. My bet is that the rider doing the mobe would have alot harder time doing the big switch backside 180. I'm guessing the switch backside 180 doesn't get you as many points though but obviously is alot harder. Sorry for the backside 180 stuff but I thought it might make a good comparison. Anyone know the point scale at all?

John, the top 4 pro riders are 17,18 & 19 years old and I know all of them personaly, I can assure you they are not out there for the fun of it. That said, The INT does provide a great oppertunity for riders of all levels to compete and have a fun time with family and friends. I have been a supporter of the INT for many years and have made life long friends in the process. I still think not posting of scores sucks, and have complained about it for years, it needs to change.

Ben, i didnt mean you personally, sorry if it made it sound like i was singling you out.

I have seen alot of posts on the boards lately of people making personal attacks against the founder of the INT and many other sections of it, and i was adressing those people

Chris, The call judge has the option of giving more or less points to certain tricks if they choose. If the rider happens to throw something huge, clean, or just something out of the ordinary they can call the trick plus 50 or 100. Same thing on the reverse side, if it is sloppy or if they case the wake, they have the option of calling the trick minus 50 or 100.

Randy, They do post the scores. You look at it carefully enough and you'll figure out where you stand.

I know and have met just about every rider at the INT. I'm talking about the majority here. KIDS, its all about the kids. And if a rider is not out there for the fun of it, I say they need to hang their board up.

(Message edited by Jon A on October 17, 2007)

Thats cool Jon! Just curious but how many points do you get nowadays for a pete rose? then how many would a switch backside 180 be plus the extra 50-100 points. Anyway to get a breakdown.

Caleb- your points are well taken. Everybody was under the same conditions as far as the wake was concerned. HOWEVER, if you are running a "Pro" level tournament, a Pro wake, or something close to it would be nice. That means a lake deeper than 4 feet, and I know that the lake was 4 feet or shallower in some areas. (i.e. when someone less than six feet tall is standing on the bottom, and two feet of him sticks out of the water, the lake is less than 4 feet deep.)

Regarding style scoring, I'm sure that every style judge tries to do their best to be fair. The fact is that in a large division, it is very difficult to remember why you are scoring a certain rider in a certain way. The first rider off the dock gets a certain score. How can anybody be expected to score the next twenty riders consistently. It is simply impossible to remember what score rider xyz was given and why. In my opinion, it is necessary to have specific objective criteria for the style score.

I firmly believe that INT has the best scoring system out there. I don't know of another league where the rules are so well defined. That is a huge strength. My kids compete in a local league (non INT) where the results frequently leave people scratching their heads asking, "what just happened here?" That happens far less frequently with INT. I do however believe that even INT scoring can be improved, especially where the style scoring is concerned. In the upper divisions in our state INT, we used a system this past year that we believe gave us very consistent results. Our plan is to expand the system to include the lower divisions next year. We want to get it right, and we put out a great deal of effort to make sure that we do. It is my hope that in the future INT will adopt similar objective criteria for US Championships.

We love INT. The tournament was great overall. Thanks to all who put in the work to make it all possible!

Chris, your not going to like this, switch B/S 180 750 + 100 extra if it's clean= 850 points, I think a Pete is like 1750 without the extra 50-100.

hmm

Randy- a switch BS 180 is 1100 points. 1000+100 for switch. The 750 is the intermediate value for a BS 180.

Theres some harder tricks out there that I personally think should get more points. Thats all I was trying to say. What about a switch toeside bs 3 vs a handle pass kgb. The switch toe bs 3 is alot harder but Im guessing the kgb is scored better. Nothing against contests but I see where judging can get tough.

Peter, thanks your right, I was reading the wrong list. Congrats from us to Jeremy & Alyssa on their podium's at Nationals, very cool.

Chris both worth 1600 points. I think, Peter?

Ben, what were the scores for the first day and what is the max for style points and as Randy asked earlier just the hard scores without style.... I've talked to Ryan for only a couple minutes since Sunday and he wouldn't know... or remember..lol. Thanks

Thanks Randy. We're proud of them!

Switch TS BS 360 and handle pass KGB are both 1600. -100 for wrapped KGB.

Randy- we really missed Alex and you too. I know he would have been right in the thick of it battling for a spot on the podium. I hope he's doing well.

If i remember correctly they do post the scores at the end of the day. They just don't have any names next to them. Does this still happen?
I remember last year i was on the phone with my dad and Randy scaglioti was right next to him keeping track of what all the riders were throwing. You can pretty much figure out where you place by just adding up trick totals. It seems that style points rarely are the deciding factor in the pro division because all the riders ride with style, especially the top 3.

What i'd like to know is what was the trick point total difference between the 3 top riders and did style points change their placement.

Matt your right, it can be done that way & your dad and I did it last year. But It would be a lot more fun and relaxing if you didn't have to write down every trick each rider did, then go to the rule book and calulater and you can be pretty close. It was very close between Alex and Kevin last year and even after going through the above exercise your dad and I thought it could have gone ether way. I would much rather just be able to watch my kid ride and not worry about doing the math. Say hay to your dad and Kevin for me. I'll shut up now, everyone knows how I feel about the "hidden" scores. Poll the riders over the winter, I'm pretty sure it would be a landslide vote to go back to posting them.

Peter, his doing much better, keeping busy building snowboard rails in the back yard. thanks for asking.

I would hope composition is a category or considered in Style. If someone goes out and links spins/flips (I'm guessing no straight airs as too low in points...) they should get some credit over the raley/flip guy or the just spinning guy or the guy that does several variations of the same type of trick (front roll, crow, crow mobe, etc.)

Also, amplitude, cleanness, and technicality (isn't that already factored into the point system itself) don't seem to capture steeze. To take a snowboarding example (b/c I can't think of a wakeboarding one right now), like comparing a Danny Kass' spin to a Shaun White spin. Shaun's might score higher in amplitude and cleanness, but I would hope something in the judging would factor in Kass' tougher grab/less machine like nature into the score. Maybe not...snowboarding doesn't seem to have that figured out...I wonder if INT does.

for the people that where there at the nationals and watched the pro class you all remember that probably 80% of the riders did a trick when they were maybe 3 or 5 feet out of the course. did the judges let some of those slide by.

Ryan,

I do know that if the rider initiates the trick (starts his cut to the wake) prior to the course buoy then the trick should be counted.

Ryan,

It was stressed at the riders meeting that if the trick is started before the end buoy the trick counts. So it can be landed outside of the buoy. I gave no exceptions on this when I was judging.

The way it should work at INT is this: The rider needs to initiate the trick before the bouy. In the lower divisions, this means that surface tricks must be started before the buoy. In all divisions this means that the rider must hit the wake (i.e. be in the air) before the buoy. I was in the boat quite a bit particularly for lower divisions, and these criteria were strictly observed.

I believe the boys were under the impression initiate the trick meant on the cut into the wake

Why won't the wake community step up and say, we need a set of criteria, rules, etc...that every sanctioning body should adhere to, then there wouldn't be all this. No one seems to know what is going on from comp. to comp.

becuase from what i hear the founder of the INT who makes all the decisions isn't the easiest guy to work with. and i have one question why are there sooooo many ski classes. is it really that important to have a "wide ride super slow advanced open class". it took twice as long to had out the awards for the ski classes as it did for the wakebaording and wakeskate combined.

That is why everyone should attend the riders meetings at the beginning of each day. The rules are gone over and any questions asked. The last trick was discussed each and every day. This goes for the first trick being past or thrown at the buoy as well.

As many have said, INT is not a perfect scoring system, but what is? We have been to many a contest to be shocked at the results. At least at INT you get credit for what you do. You are not winning because you are cute or so and so's kid. AT NorCal INT we have in place a real fair style system. We have a questionaire for each person, it asked simple questions such as Did they spin h/s? t/s? one point for each. Then at the end we multiply the end figure by a multiplier to come up with total style. There are also deductions (like but checks) It may not be perfect, but it is the same for each and every rider from advanced and up.

I have yet to see a tournament that is perfect. If anyone has this system, I am sure everyone would love to hear it. I love to see tournaments that have actually play out as they should.

Linda,
We were at the riders meeting. All that was said is that as long as you start the trick before the bouy you can land after the bouy. Nobody said that starting the trick means In all divisions this means that the rider must hit the wake (i.e. be in the air) before the buoy.

I agree that Nor Cals style scoring system is the best out there at this point in time. Just wish more would use it.

I still do not understand why if the first trick is a fall then why that does it not count as a zero score for that trick.

Play horse just like skate! Call it wake so its not as long but if you ran it for the open division, that would be fun. It would take awhile so it might have to be its own comp but that would be the most fair. Trick for trick. Whatever rider is up gets to choose between hitting a double up, wake, rails whether it be winched or with a jetski. Play rock paper scissors to see who goes first. It'd probably be fun to watch also and maybe you could even have the riders riding doubles going back and forth. haha sounds fun to me

Ben,
It does count as a -0-. However, the goal is to get as many tricks as possible. This may be a fault as USC. And has stated above, usually upper end riders can not get 5 total tricks before the buoys. At INT USC however, the boats were not weighted as much as they typically would be on a deeper lake, so the boats were able to get up to speed quicker. I was shocked to see how quickly those boats got up to speed, it was like a ski boat. At our events if you fall on your first trick, you would be extremely lucky to get 3 more tricks. (With our boat and yours you would be lucky to get 2 tricks). And your style would be affected because of the fall. I do not know if riders at USC were docked style due to falling. IMO they should have.

Linda, how is Chad doing? What did the doc have to say?

chris i agree mang when i come down we are playin wake 4 sher

I also think INT has the best scoring system. If you read the rule book and know the tricks points you will pretty much know where your at. As for the style points thats kinda going to be hard to get a handle on. Some people like the Style of Parks and then some like a Greg Nelson style. I rode INT back in 96 its a great building block to further yourself on to the pro tour. I was in some comps to where it was as close as 50 points. I think your all forgetting that INT was made for family and fun. Yes they did open a pro level but what would of happend if some of the big names showed up and rode in it then where would those top 4 riders of placed? I know they all rip and would put me 6 feet under. But I think INT tried to make a spot for the guys who are not on the pro tour and a little better then the outlaws. These kids are in a very hard spot right now they are in between outlaw and pros. Ok sorry for the ramble. One more thing have fun with your kids and friends.

Squid your right the top pro riders were not there, but I have to point out that some very good riders competed.
8 of the top 12 who qualifed currently or have ridden on the tour.
2 Pro riders and 6 Jr, men's
9 Jr. men's podium's among the 12 qualifiers, I think the spectators got to see pro level riding.

I wasn't going to comment; however, after Nationals, I have to say something!

THANK YOU Chuck and Linda Payton. You have listened and have instituted a system for Nor Cal that brings some consistency to the Style points given to riders in the upper divisions. I hope this off season we can develop something that will work for the Mini-Outlaws on up...

I spent many a day in the boat for the lower divisions this year and while not all of the time, but on many occasions, I walked away from the boat baffled. How could a kid who could barely stand on a board get as much style as a kid going big on a wake to wake and throwing 180's in the lowest divisions? Many a time I questioned judges on their logic because I thought I was missing something, and many a time, I did not get an answer that made any sense.

At Nationals, I walked away with much of the same feeling. I can only speak to my experience where I had two kids compete in the same division and one kid threw a 1 wake Indy (that she says she missed by a foot) and another kid who went huge on a wake to wake 180 and there were only a combined difference of 36 points out of 400 points for both bonus and style. 1 kid landed the bonus - 1 kid didn't. (When 2 pro riders comment on how big the second kid went - you have to believe there was some style there...)

Additionally, I would like to recommend that next year at Nationals the same judges in both trick and style are in the boat for the same divisions from day to day. Therefore, there is consistency from day 1 to day 2. It should be a little more equal with the same set of judges. I have to wonder too on how these kids are trained from division to division - state to state? It might be helpful that people who are in the boat all receive a set of guidelines and instructions on the "How"... just my two cents.

I must also say that I know what kind of work it takes to put on all of the INT events - and by no means am I trying to put any of these people across the land down. I am only trying to make some suggestions for improvements.

Oh - and another peeve - if you have a rule on how old the competitors are suppose to be in a division - hold them ALL to the rule - no 12 year olds in a woman's novice group...

Squid are you kidding me? All of the top 3 finishers can and have thrown 7's, 9's, crow fives, Grabbed petes and many other mobes. I know Tony and Ryan have thrown and landed them on the Pro Tour and Andrew landed a crow 5 there off the little wake. This problem is not unique to the Pro class.

Randy,
Chad has MRI on Sat, until then no weight or bending. Doc said not looking good. But we are still hopeful just strained and no tears. Thanks for asking. I will keep you posted. Say hi to A.

Ben- Squid is correct. The pro division is meant for the riders who aren't the top pros. Ryan and Andrew are a couple of the best riders in the country but are not in the top tier of pros. Wakeboarding has such few spots for riders to make it. In golf the top 500 can make a living off of golf. In moto and BMX there are a lot more guys making it but in wakeboarding there are only a handful of spots so something like INT is great for the pros who aren't top 20.

INT- I have mixed feelings. What a great tournament and what unbelievable volunteers. If INT was not holding these tournaments would there be something in its place? Probably not. On the other hand. "DEAR INT: MY FAMILY USES THEIR VACATION TIME AND MONEY TO COME TO INT US CHAMPIONSHIPS. IT COST $150 TO ENTER PER PERSON. BY THE TIME WE FLY DOWN THERE, RENT A CAR AND HOTEL AND EAT WE ARE INTO THE $2,000 TO $3,000 RANGE. WE ALSO HAVE DEDICATED A LOT OF TIME AND SACRIFICED OTHER ACTIVITIES TO PREPARE FOR THIS. WE DO FOCUS ON HAVING FUN BUT WE, LIKE EVERYONE ELSE, ARE GOING TO THIS EXPENSE AND EFFORT BECAUSE WE ARE COMPETITORS.

SO PLEEEEEEEAAAASE- DO THE FOLLOWING. 99.9% OF THE PEOPLE WHO COMPETE WILL AGREE WITH THIS(INT CORP AND COORDINATORS ARE EXCEPTED) 1. HAVE A WAKEBOARD WAKE. 2. HAVE A WAKEBOARD WAKE 3. HAVE A WAKEBOARD WAKE AND 4. POST THE SCORE WITH NAMES. RIDERS ARE THERE TO DO THEIR BEST AND THEIR GOAL IS TO PLACE AS HIGH AS THEY CAN IN THEIR DIVISION. PLAIN AND SIMPLE. WE WANT TO KNOW WHERE WE STAND.

IF YOU CAN MAKE ONLY ONE CHANGE THEN CHOOSE BETWEEN 1,2 OR 3.

Roger, Count my family into that 99.9%.

Yeah Me also. I have never been to an event where you go through the entire tourney and have no clue where you finished at in the order. I have never been to an event that is more than 1 day where the running order is kept secret either. These 2 thing are just absolutely crazy. Yes the secrecacy of the scores cuts down on protest but what is there really to protest when you are given a basic point value for tricks? To me this seems pretty straight forward. So I would guess the majority of the protests would have to be an addition error and since there is not going to be any convincing otherwise whether he grabbed roast beef or indy it really comes down to a scoring error. If the scores were posted it would have saved the major embarrasment that they had in giving out the wrong awards saturday eve. This is totally insane as how this is run. The WWWA also has its flaws but atleast you know where you finished within an hour after you ride and oh yeah YOU KNOW WHAT @#@#$%# DAY YOU RIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Message edited by wkbrd on October 19, 2007)

Yeah Chris that was fun playin wake the other day behind larrys boat , thanx for not takin me out too soon

Ben and Randy maybe that came over kinda wrong. All those kids are killer riders and would not put any of them down. But right now they are in a hard spot. I know what its like standing next to the Pros of our sport and then trying to follow them. Even if you can do the exact same trick as Parks or Watson it dosn't get scored or looked at the same. If it wasn't for INT and smaller comps Andrew Adkisn might of never made it. Its small comps and INT that help the up and comers get noticed and prepared for the next level.

No worries Squid, I hear what your saying.

Squid, No problem. I get what you are saying.

Doesn't the subjectiveness of judging "style" completely negate the entire idea of the strict INT points system?

Anytime there's a human "feeling" element involved, the contest is rigged, no matter how hard you try to keep it fair. No two people can judge "style" consistently and objectively.

I appreciate all of the volunteers that there are at INT championships, my wife and I are two of them, but I believe that there should never be more than one from each state in a boat to judge. possibly two, if they do not have a rider, but NEVER THREE!!!!!

"Anytime there's a human "feeling" element involved, the contest is rigged, no matter how hard you try to keep it fair. No two people can judge "style" consistently and objectively."

Joe- Bingo- you are correct. This is the exact reason that NorCal uses a style system which is 70% objective. The 30% that is subjective is split between two different judges, and it is broken down so that if the judge is trying to be fair, it is relatively easy to do so.

Do away with "style" points for INT and score trick points only, It is what it is, no arguments. That's my vote.

So two guys throw the same exact run. The first guy takes every trick huge and lands them clean. Next guy goes and is hucking the tricks and casing the wakes just about every landing. You are saying they should get the same points?

Keep the style points, maybe just change how they are given.

Jon, I was refering to the pro division, which buy the way is the subject of this thread, I assure you they won't be landing the same tricks, I don't care if you butt check a 900, it's still a 900.

Peter, which part of the 70% of it is objective? How is that portion scored?

Sounds like I'm going to have to judge style in NOR-CAL next year since I got "MAD STEEZE". Just kidding, But JOE I think judges can be pretty close on style. Although some people put more style on spins than on flips and vice versa. But that should be where the 30% comes into play. JOE come on out and play with us next year and we will judge style!!!

randy. how does doing away with style encourage people to ride for themselves and push the sport in different ways. if everyone rode the same, wakeboarding would be boring and contests would be redundant

there should be no set point value for each trick. everything should be based on style, amplitude, and composure.

Joe- Composition is 1/3 of the style score, and is totally objective. We are looking for a mix of tricks and tricks that meet the degree of difficulty of the division. In Outlaw and Pro, a rider needs to have HS and TS inverts, HS and TS spins, and Raley based tricks in order to score well. Additionally, the rider needs to have mobes and 540+ spins. Off axis spins and BS spins are also given credit.

Execution is 1/3 of the style score. The rider gets credit for not falling, or for only falling once and for landing tricks cleanly. Also credit is given for solidly grabbing tricks. In execution, there is a subjective style score which is 38.5 % of the execution score, or about 13% of the total style score.

Intensity- The rider is given credit for coming off the dock with a big trick (i.e. over a certain point threshold- nothing to do with amplitude) The rider is also given credit for landing as many big tricks as possible, and for tricks over an even higher point threshold. Also, there is a subjective score given for TS amplitude and for HS amplitude. The subjective amplitude scores amount to 46 % of the Intensity score or 15% of the total style score.

This is all done on very simple worksheets by three different judges. It is possible to train a judge in about 2 minutes and have him go out and judge a class. The style score can be totalled and put on the attack sheet well before the next rider is ready to go. It sounds complicated, but it is very fast, and very consistent. This system was born out of the frustration that we had in knowing that the style scores that our judges were giving were sometimes wrong. At the 2006 US Championships, I had the privilege of judging the Expert class along with two excellent outlaw riders. It was a class of I think 24 riders. About two thirds of the way through one of them said, "I gave such and such a rider a certain score. I know I had a reason when I gave the score, but to be honest, I can't remember what it was now." It's not a case of bad judges. It is simply impossible to judge a class that big fairly unless there is an organized system in place.

Families spend a significant amount of money to compete in INT. Going to US Championships is a huge expense. We owe it to the competitors to have a consistent and fair system in place.

Jeff- a bay bay hahahaha i was sitting at the table with the Carrolls and Peters fam at the nationals awards dinner. it made my night when u flung that butter ball. hahaha.

Did you see where it landed? That was the funny part. Smack dab in the middle of Danni P's finger as she was pointing at someone. I almost pee'd myself laughing at her looking around like WTF just happened

Peter,
I agree with your system. When I drive the lower divisions, the styles scored by volunteers are appreciated, but do not have consistency or a basis to quantify the points. Your worksheet approach with simple yes/no questions leads to a consistent system that can be done by almost any person familiar with wakeboarding. I am sure there are areas where point values regarding certain subjects might be altered, but the more people the system can be exposed to for added input, the better the system can become.

Judges should be riders. It's hard to say what a trick is worth if you've never done the trick

Jason, I hear what your saying but we are talking about two forms of wakeboarding, free ride vs comps. I love your riding style and your section in DS2 is one of my favorites, but like it or not comp riding in the pro divisions is about the tricks in your bag. Look at the top contest riders, Soven, Rusty, Danny, Chad Sharpe, etc. they have every tech trick and mobe down pat and you always see them on the podium. Then you have Randall, Benny G, Lyman all bringing the stezz on every trick but not scoring well. I have heard this argument every year and we will always hear it, My point was for the INT is do away with the style points in the Pro division and score the trick landed, your minimum 13,000 point qualifying score for this division is based off your "hard" score, no style counted, so use the same format for the contest. Just my opinion, but it will take away all the arguments about who should have won.

hahaha yeah jeff the look on her face was a kodak moment.

Hi Randy,
I figured I would jump in also regarding your comment to remove style points for pro division. I agree with points alone it could take some confusion out, but there is also the case of a rider that does 10 raley based tricks. It can have a high point value run, but it gets old watching different variations of the same trick. A systematic way of basing style points would lower the standings of that rider to one who did a comparable score with 10 different tricks. This is just another scenario that lends itself to having style points.

How's Alex feeling?

Jim, good point. I'm just trying to come up with a way to take the subjectivity out of the scoring for the Pro division. Like I said you qualify with no style points, the same scoring could be used for the USC. Alex is doing good, just got a clean bill of health from the doc. and just got accepted as a snowboard instructor at Mt. Bachelor for the winter. Thanks for asking.

Randy,
Good to hear Alex is doing well. Let's see some pics of Alex on some of that warm Oregon water ~

V

Vince, check out www.wakeboardnorthwest.com for a photo gallary of Alex and Robby C. from a film shoot with Spencer. You have to road trip this winter for some snowboarding, free place to stay and we know all the secret places to ride on Mt. B.

Randy,

The girls are already taking inventory of the SB gear. We will be making a trek up your direction to check out all that powder on Mt. B everyone is raving about. So far 0" at Shasta.

Vince