What is a skim or surf style board? Board by Board

The first board for debate is the Walker Carb. is it a skim or a surf board. The reason for this post is it seems the lines of surf vs skim boards have become gray. Some people think if it has foam and rocker then its a surf board, is it?

(Message edited by surf_rage on February 11, 2008)

(Message edited by surf_rage on February 11, 2008)

If we're going to a rock, Paper Scissors discussion In have paper covered.

LOL, thinks Ed. rocker not rock, sorry

i'm gunna call it a hybrid.i recently rode a stringerless one.it had alot of float unlike a skim,but it spun like a top just like a skim.this thing spun!turned my bro's 3 into a 7 after only one day of riding it.its going to be hard to classify each board shape and design to surf or skim.i think the easiest way will be by rail edge sharpness.at contests,we will have to rely on the expertise of the judges to be able to tell the difference from a true surf style 3(hard)verses a skim style 3(easy)and give credit where credit is do.ASC still believes in the constitution,liberty or death and the separation of surf and skim...

Almost a year ago we had this HUGE discussion on what what would be considered a surf vs skim style board. Number of fins, placement, LOA, etc...lots of folks that were passionate about defining and NOT defining the boards. Lots of good solid arguments on both sides of the fence.

I think in the end, the "general" concensus, for better or worse, is that there are three styles of "riding" and those are skim, surf and longboard...and equipment that is better suited for that. For example, Ed S's longboard project probably can't be used for a 3 shuv.

Boards like TWP Comp X 4.5 and Walzer Alpha further blur the lines. In particular the TWP with those futures rail boxes allow you to install 4.5 inch scimitar fins, or 2 3/8" turbo tunnel side bites. I'd have a hard time defining the board, with 4.5" fins as a skim style...who knows maybe someone can ride it revert.

It "feels" hybrid'ish to me...surf AND skim. However, if I had to place it in one of the three categories, I would say it's dependent upon configuration. If it had 4.50" fins, it's surf. If it had hand foiled 1" fins it's skim. I also am a firm believer that it is the style in which a board is ridden that determines what it "is", if that makes sense.

My 2 cents.

I was part of those discussions a year ago. I agree with Jeff fully about the style that a board is ridden, determines what kind of a board it "is". Trying to define a board (except a long board) by its physical characteristics as being surf or skim is very difficult to do.

So jeff, your thinking is the type or size of the fin determines style of board, or that a rider could ride a Victoria, Calibrated etc and still be surf style if he or she could show a surf style while riding. I guess my whole idea of surf style boards has been changed sense riding some of Billy Clarks surf style boards. When are you coming to Austin, would love to have you and your family out and have you ride some of his boards and get your input.

It really just comes down to how you ride. I can ride a skimboard style board and do everything someone can do on a Surf style board. And Since JOsh sleigh is doing shuvs on a Surf style does that mean it is skim style. No it means that everyone rides what they are comfortable riding some tricks are harder on a smaller board and some tricks are harder on a longer board. As for contest there are different divisions at Worlds. and that is good. This sport is to young and new to be setting all these standerds on it. At worlds you ride your age group or open. And you ride what you brought. Surf style vs skim style vs hybrid vs front door vs car doors etc... It is all about progression and guys like Josh Sleigh are progressing riding a larger board behind a boat. Just like Myself and other are progressing riding a smaller board. It is Personnal preference. I could take my wakesurf and put a 3 inch fin in it and then it becomes a surf style. Even though I can do all the same tricks????? doesn't make since

My 2 Cents

Hey Scott,

We plan to be in your area this summer, I'm looking forward to meeting everyone down in TX. The sport is certainly growing in your area.

I think that I wasn't really clear. As Roy points out, it's mostly about how you ride - or the style that you ride and not the fins per se

So here is James throwing a shuv on his bullet - not a skim style board by any stretch of the imagination.



I'm semi in agreement with Drew.

The world's aside, because that's a different animal.

When we started orgainzing smaller grass roots contests, the level of riding isn't of the Drew/Josh level. When those two men ride, it's awesome to watch...when I ride...mostly folks laugh and point.

So we wanted to provide more riding time at the grassroots level. By creating more divisions, folks had more opportunities to ride. At the NWL nationals the longboard division was by far the most enjoyable.

The other part of this was to...I hate the connotation of this, but it FORCES folks to try something else. So in the longboard division, and we provided the board, folks that would have NEVER TRIED that, or that couldn't afford to...get that opportunity and it opened up the door to some old timers to break out their longboards for behind the boat. Or an engineer that shall remain nameless (Ed S ) to build one.

Similarly folks that normally rode a surf style board got an opportunity to step on to a skimmer. Collectively, we - THE awsa thought that would be good for the sport, the contestants and folks selling product. We gave entrants an opportunity to ride 3 times as much (and if you have ever been to a contest waiting for your turn, it can get boring), it allowed folks to look at a longboard or a skimboard and say - you know, I want to try that and in so doing, expenaded the sport, as well as, created opportunities for more sponsors and at LEAST opened the door for additional market share for folks that support the sport.

Contests are great exposure for the sport, but inevitably someone gets their shorts all wadded up if they don't win. When a young child works HARD the contest is important to them. If we don't have clearly delineated rules and standards, we discount that individual. Nothing is more frustrating for a kid to practice all year long and at the contest be dismissed because the judges don't favor that style OR the rules and divisions weren't clear. This is where I depart from Drews opinion. Make the contest clear so that 10 year old Timmy isn't heart broken or discouraged from enaging in the sport. The guidelines that we developed pretty much leave it up to the organizer...so they aren't REQUIRED to host all the divisions, but we encourage it.

And lastly, from a judging standpoint, it's just easier when the divisions are split. Is a 3 shuv harder than 2 feet of air and/or harder than hanging heels off the nose? Not that we typically get that sort of level of riding, but it gets close. And remember, these contests are important to someone, even if in the view of an outsider it looks awful. We want to respect that/those folks.

So for the grassroots contests - the majority of folks felt that divisions offered greater exposure, more fun and participation for riders, ease in judging and a clear and understandable goal for riders to develop their routine and in so doing - reduced the potential for disappointment and misunderstandings.

We also were sensitive to the OTHER side of the fence and realize that there are folks that simply detest the divisions and so don't make any of them "required". It can simply be a ride what you brought contest.

So, the AWSA felt that divisions, if not standards or definitions of a board was in the best interests of staging smaller contests. I just offer up this photo of the NWL Nationals - the longboard division was absolutely a BLAST and there wouldn't have been a longboard THERE without said division.

ummm...you might think I was interested in that topic, huh?

Gheesh, you guys make it just about as hard as possible to pick a board!

So Jeff how many divisions are we talking about in a contest? Do all divisions get prize money? If you wanted all the best wakesurfers in the country (open or pro class) to come to an event is prize money the draw and how much?

Blair, it is very hard to pick "A" board. I have three Trick Boardz, one on loan to some one I don't know well and I hope to see again, two Inland Surfer boards, a Walker Project board from the AWSA that has custom art on it that I don 't want to ride, a Hyper Light Broadcast 5.6, a broken one time balsa board, a broken Kroger's board, A virgin Pizza Hut board, a homemade long board, and blank yet to be shaped. My regular crew have an Inland Surfer blue and a Walzer.

No one board does it all. If you're going to own only one board you can still narrow the choice down by what you want to do. If you’re a wakeskate rider I think I’d go with a skim board. If you used to surf in the ocean on a short board or were maybe a slalom skier you might consider a surf style board. I wouldn’t get a long board unless your going to do a lot of wake surfing and your willing to dance around a long board all day long.

Scott, for me at the grass roots level it’s not that much about the money. Organizing an event takes a lot of time. Soliciting sponsors can take a lot of time. Jeff has an amazing relationship with wakesurf sponsors.

Here are the divisions for two NWL/AWSA competitions that we ran.

2007 Scioto Wakefest:
..Wakesurf: Big Kahuna $300, $150, $50
..Advanced
..Intermediate
..Women’s
..Men’s
..Novice
..Oldest, Baldest, Furthest Traveling
..Putting up with the oldest, baldest, Furthest Traveling

Raffled prizes:
..Walker Project Composite X
..Inland Surfer ’06 Yellow
.. Shred Stixx Ja Mako
.. Fresh Air Exhaust system
.. a Sean Ward Board Bag
.. and more

Noting that we split the Open Skim and Open surf divisions in to men's and women's at the 2007 NWL/AWSA nationals we had the following divisions:

You guys gonna make it to Houston?

Too many Scott's! Scott #1 and I have spoken by phone. Feel free to call if you have more questions on the wakesurf contest.

Scott #2 We are planning on a Texas State Championship hosted this year...TX is such a hotbed of activity, we hope to get to several of the major metro areas with contests.

I have the same problem but it's with Walkers.

Jeff, do you have a tentative date for the Texas State Championship? I would like to take Kayley and Rob to an event in Texas, Florida and California this summer and I need to start planning the summer calendar. Do you know of any other dates?

Good morning Roy,

I don't have anything firm yet, but I'll be sure keep you informed as the dates get set. It would be great to bump into you and yours around the country! If you have time on your visit to CA, you folks simply must set aside some time to go out with us on the boat.

Does this tour come anywhere near Virginia? Have a website?

Hey Blair, the farthest east we get is Ohio. We are working on a Minnesota State Championship and a Florida State Championship...but those might not happen this year. Any chance I could talk you into helping us host a Virginia State Championship? We pretty much have a turn key setup.

What's all involved? I'm sure more than a few people would be interested in this.

Hey Blair,

Sorry it took me so long to respond, I didn't see that you had posted. The NWL is an organizing body that we are supporting. They have the most interest in dveloping wakesurfing. If there is an existing NWL club in your area, that is the easiest way to go...just approach them and get wakesurfing added. If not, then you have to form a club and get some specific safety and driver training. Pretty easy, but requires 2 days to get it all. The NWL has a complete checklist and the steps necessary to host a grassroots event. They are also great to work with.

The BIGGEST and most time consuming detail is finding a suitable venue. Do you know of a location that has the depth, visibility and facilities that you could host a contest?

The three most important issues are:
1) Venue; you have to have a venue or you have nothing.

2) Sanctioning (insurance): You've got to sanction an event to provide necessary insurance

3) Trained staff: You need trained staff to meet sanctioning requirements.

To sanction a NWL grassroots “Fun” class event you need a trained safety coordinator and a trained driver. It’s better to have several trained drivers.

Note that the National Wakeboard League comes under USA Water Ski. You can find affiliated USA water Ski clubs here: http://www.usawaterski.org/clubs/clubdirectory.asp

You can find trained USA Water Ski officials here: http://www.usawaterski.org/pages/offdirectory.asp

Take a look at the Grassroots Tournament kit here: http://www.usawaterski.org/pages/Grassroots/HowToHostEvents.htm

After that the reset of the event planning is relatively easy or I’d say fun. I really like marketing an event.

I’d be happy to discuss event planing with you.

"Do you know of a location that has the depth, visibility and facilities that you could host a contest?"

There are several spots where current contests are held. Lake Anna as well as the James River. Smith Mountain Lake is also somewhat local to Central Va.

I'm guessing it takes alot of flow to get something like this going. I'll talk to my friends at Southern Ski Boats as they host 2-3 events through out the year already, the "Mid Atlantic Wake Series".

Just looking to promote the sport out here on the right side. I'll post more when I get more info.