School me on Ballast: Johnson/Jabsco options

I'm dumping the non-functional ballast system in my Supra this year after constantly replacing the failing parts of the sprinkler system or livewell dump pumps.

I'm pretty set on doing the reversible pumps, regardless of the other options. It just seems a lot simpler to me doing it this way having 1 pump per bag.

My Supra has the OEM 1100# center bow sac, then 2 450# sacs in each rear locker. I'm wanting to use 4 reversible pumps. 1 for each rear sac, 1 for the bow, and 1 that's hardwired/plumbed for an external surf sac so that I'll I have to so is connect the fill/drain line and turn on the switch.

I already have some lines (not sure if 3/4" or 1" right now) in there.

*In the front for the bow, there's a line on top that goes to a dump pump, then out to the above water line drain. I assume I can use this on the opposite end of the sac for a vent without the pump in the middle. It would basically be a line going straight out of the boat if the sac was overfilled, plus a way for the air to escape while filling.

*I want to add an intake either for each pump, or 1 intake for each pair of pumps. If I use 1", would I need 2 or 4?

*I've seen the diagram from wakemakers showing the ballast bag, pump, wye fitting, 2 check valves, and a bunch of other parts. From what I can tell, the only reason for the check valves and wye fitting is for when this is used for an "above the water line drain". All I want to do is fill from the intake, then dump the water from the same path it was filled from. I understand the pumps can run dry, but dont' they have a timer built in?

*Basically what I'm thinking I can do to add the 4 pumps from scratch is: thru-hull intake>shutoff valve>pump>fitting on sac>(other end of sac) fitting>drain tube to vent outside of boat.

Am I on the right track?

Sorry if this has been covered, I looked back and didn't find any answers for my questions.

I messed around with this in my 2003 Tige last year. I am an engineer by not an expert on balast systems. One thing I learned is pump placement is important. Most of the reversing pumps are self-priming but if you place the pump too far from the intake it may have problems priming. The other thing I noticed with using the same pump for filling and empting is that unless you place a manual valve in the line the filled sacs could drain back through the pump. I talked with someone who installs ballast systems and he said they use two pump per ballast and check valves. I got busy and never completed my project. Like John I'm interested in how these systems are supposed to work.

I installed a 1 reversible pump per bag system last year (using Johnsons) and had zero problems with water backing out through the intake. If your impeller starts to go bad, this may happen, but if your impeller starts to go bad, it will go totally bad very fast and you will need to replace it.

Agree on the pump placement. Also, placement with the pump head down is best. Horizontal is okay. Do not place with the pump head up. You are asking for problems if you do.

You are on the right track with this: "Basically what I'm thinking I can do to add the 4 pumps from scratch is: thru-hull intake>shutoff valve>pump>fitting on sac>(other end of sac) fitting>drain tube to vent outside of boat."

Thanks for the advice fellas.

Scott, you're saying that when it's mounted, the fittings should be on the top, so the pump would look like it's upside down?

Joe, like Scott said, these pumps shouldn't allow backflow unless the impeller is bad.

Does SImer make those reversible ballast pumps anymore?

Thanks for the information. I need to get back to this before the season begins.

I used check valves everywhere on the intake as well as discharge. Have no problem with back flow. I had problems with priming with the yellow impellars. The green impellars fixed that. I just ordered a Johnson pump to replace a soon to be dead ballast puppy thought I would give them a try.

The impeller part of the pump should be at the bottom (best). Next best would be to have it be horizontal with the impeller part to the left or right. The worst installation would be to have the impeller part at the top, because water leakage could get into the pump housing thanks to our friend gravity. It's not a guaranteed problem, but it has been a problem for some. I believe that was with Jabscos, but I suspect the same issue with any of these impeller pumps. (Note, you do not have to be perfectly vertical or horizontal, at an angle works too, just think about where water would go if you had a leak. If it would drip into the pump motor, rethink your placement.)

I believe Simer still does make the pumps, but they are pretty hard to find these days. If you use a Simer, be sure you don't have it in the engine compartment, as they are not ignition protected.

Finally, try to keep the pumps as close to the intake thru-hull as reasonably possible, and having the impeller part close to or below the natural waterline will greatly assist with priming. Mine are not below the waterline, but are pretty close to it. I have never had a problem with priming, although I have only 1 season under my belt. This is another reason to install with the impeller portion on the bottom.