2 Turn Tables

I wasn't intentionally bagging on the CIE Crew, heck, I don't even know any of them and haven't been to that lake. The pictures just made me mad. Props to them for organizing an event.

Well - mine is the white VLX getting CRUSHED as you will in the above pic. I saw the X-Star go by & told my cousin Marc keep your eye on the up-coming rollers. We watcxhed them & they looked not bad and all of a sudden they freaken HUGE, I took on so much H20 my bilge ran for like 20minutes. Belive me I was pretty pissed

whats this whole bonecrusher thing? Is it a boat or what?

It's more than a boat, it's a freakin animal!

Shawn- Yes that was me.

Shawn and Racer,
Did anyone from the event come up to you guys and apologize or anything for what was going on. Or did they stop where they were pulling riders or did this go on for a while. I would have to imagine that someone from the event saw what was happening. Just wondering if they did anything about it.
I for one would be really pissed if that were my boat.
Racer your boat looks like the front was ready to go under. Hopefully none of your electronics were anywhere on the floor of your boat( within the compartments). I would also imagine that your front speakers ( if you have them ) took a bath.

I have also noticed that no one from CIE has come on here to address the near Swamping issue of your two boats.

Someone should take a little responsibility and an apology would be nice.

And Finally Shawn, I apologized before for my comments and now that you are on the thread I apologize again.

is it just me or am i the only one that thinks to himself!

hey what a nice resort, wow the docks are basically in the middle of the lake, i bet the boats on the outside are going to get pounded all day by rollers, FROM EVERY BOAT! not just this damn "bonecrusher" thing every one is nutted up about.. well i better grab an inside slip while the gettin is good..

the docks have zero protection from any boat on the lake, i figured most people could have figured this out

to focus all this energy on one boat is a complete joke! i guarntee they didnt do this on purpose.. get over it..

Thank you E Double U. You're absolutely right.

We are sorry this happened. We're still new when it comes to competitions. We probably still have some things to learn. I can tell you that last year we threw DUs much closer to the dock and this never happend.

It was a one time occurance.

I don't recall who was driving. I know that it wasn't any of the CIE staff. It was our boat.

I believe it happened during warm up lap when the boat passed at a lower speed, or when the boat passed inside the 5MPH marker, once (we had the Sheriffs persmission).

There was another thread shortly after Spring Ride where we discussed this. I think you missed it.

are their any pics of this thing, because everyone seems to love it so much

Richard has a point. Every boat that rolls by throws wakes into that line of slips. We're still sorry that the wake in question was beleived to have come from our boat.

"I guess any other time you would be right, but at this event "bonecrusher" was the tow boat for the d-up comp which was held just outside the 5mph zone, which is only about 50' from the slips."

Hey Shawn, you do know that the contest was held at the opposite end of the resort, right, not where you are suggesting. The boat drove by once, but then stayed between the gas docks and the bridge for the entire contest.

"I was wondering that too? There's a thread in the other forum about getting splashed from a rider, and he deserved a beat down, if not a bullet, but the BCer, that's a whole nother level. I love the boat, the wake is better, but WTF is up with that? That didn't look very funny, to someone who worked hard for their boat.
"

Chris, come on bro, you're comparing a deliberate act to an accident! Why the instigating?

For everyone who wasn't there, here is a picture of the dock setup at the tulloch resort. This picture was taken from the same spot as the ones above. As you can see, the 5mph zone is just beyond the outside of the dock. Boats were going by all weekend throwing rollers into the docks. Any boat that was docked on the unprotected side of the dock was getting rocked all weekend.
When the bonecrusher threw the rollers shown above, it was in about the same area of the lake, traveling the same direction as the boat shown in the picture. I would guess they were going about 15-20mph, and the wind was blowing aout 15-20(my guess) towards the docks. It just made for the perfect conditions to make some crazy rollers. If the law is that your wake is your resposibility, then so be it, but I would diagree with it under these circumstances. It was an accident. It's like parking your car next to a baseball field, and complaining when your window gets broken by a baseball.

I also want to say thanks to CIE for putting on an awesome event.

As far as "this A hole in a wheel chair at the end of the dock is swearing at all of us to get out of the way because we are now blocking the path of the Bone crusher" He was trying to run an event, with a prize of $3k, under some pretty crappy conditions. He was doing his best to keep the pace up of the event, and I'm sure he was a bit stressed at the time. Under the conditions, I think they made the best of it. Every wakeboard event I been to has picked up and droped off riders in the same way that it was done here. I don't really know of a way they could any different, and still finished the comp in under 8 hours.

The last thing I want to bring up is all the stereo guys. Yeah, there was some sweet systems, but unfortunatly it sounded like •••••••••••• everyone thought that they needed to play their system louder than the next guy. So there was the loudest boat on the lake playin punk, at the same time the second loudest playing Michael Jackson, and 4 more guys playing different hip-hop tunes. It was the stupidest thing I've ever seen. You guys really need to work on taking turns, or linking your boats up or something.

Dunno how everyone else does it, but when I am driving a loaded (or unloaded) boat, I pay attention to where the wake is going and whom it is impacting. Wind aside, you know that the guy driving the boat had to see what was happening. He could have backed off the throttle, even with a rider on there, I do it all the time to keep from being an ••••••••••• is completely the drivers fault IMHO He should have been the one to mention the problem to the event operators.

Hey Nick,
Thanks for the perspective. This Picture explains a lot.

J-Rod
Thanks for the clarification of what was going on. I did miss the other thread if this was covered.
Looked like a fun day though .
I wish we had something like that down here in SOCAL.
Have a great summer.

E Double U- no apologies needed bro, just like anything else some people will like it, some people won't. This just happens to be my passion.
CIE Jarrod- After I got dunked I asked people around the venue if this was going to be an all day thing(bonecrusher going back&forth). It was my first time at the event and didn't know the format. The people told me that they do the d-up comp right in front of the pylons where I was at.
So I pulled out from my slip to try and find one on the backside...too late.So I moved all the way down past the fuel station to the other slips.Well the wind shifted and they started doing the d-up comp on that side, so I got pounded some more. That's when I pulled of the water. Absolutley nobodys fault but my own(parking in front, bringing 20$G's in audio equip on the water).Props to all the riders for putting up w/ all the wind and sh***ty ass water.Next year I'll know where to slip.

The other thing, these waves were not a constant occurence. I was watching some large rollers come in, then about 10 feet out they started rolling over and got massive. Thats when people started scrambling.

I heard Bern from the resort talk about how out of nowwhere these huge waves will develop and come crashing in.

As a driver of a loaded boat you must be aware and pay attention to your inside wake. I have nearly sank two boats because of this. Not to mention it really pisses off the driver of the other boat. However it does come in handy with the wallys's.

I don't get it. If I go out and buy a 40-50 ft yacht/cruiser, the wakes I produce are going to be twice as big as ANY wakeboat, yet people are getting mad at WBs and threatening to ban ballast? Are they going to ban people from buying large boats? That would piss off some polititions, and would never fly.

As the owner of a little Sanger DXII, I am constanstly running from my own wake and others. At the event, I remember thinking "Hmmm... I'm glad we brought my buddies Calabria!" With that many boats, wind, and the double-up, something is bound to happen. I personally watched the CIE guys work their tails off and know everyone did the best they could. Shawn, your boat is just plain sick. Sorry to see that happen.

in california you as the driver of the boat are responsible for any damages your wake causes. it does not matter if you are a 21 footer slammed with 1500 lbs of ballast or a 29 foot cabin cruiser or 650 foot tanker...driver is responsible.

if damages occurred to a swim platform or anything else...either the driver and/or the organizers should pay for any repairs needed.
Apology? no, CASH! pay for the damages step up and take responsibility...the pics are the proof...some people do not give a rats ass about "other peoples" boats...blaming them for parking there is wrong, it is a dock!
maybe better planning next time would avoid it. but if next time the wakes damage anything its the drivers responsibility...

Wow Andy.... That sure helped clarify....

Too bad you're about 2 days late to the coversation. Figure it out. I think those bases were pretty much covered.

Every thought I had was bad in some way or another.

Props To C.I.E crew.
I wan't to hit the bone crusher

One thing we all need to remember here is the intent & I can assure no direct harm was meant by throwing this D-UP contest. I am not here to get into the details or argue semantics but rather try to flip this arond into a positive experaince for most everyone involved.

I can't imagine the total & complete investment to pull of an event like this. I know it takes an enourmous amount of planning, coordination, contacts, money & time to pull of a 3 day festival that I had the pleasure & enjoyment to attend - thank you. Coming from a guy who used to plan events ( much smaller ) I take my hats off to the CIE crew & not just them. This goes to every other local club / group / team / parents / companies that work hard to put on something for the local wake communitty across the coast.

Some people have passion for events, some for stereos, some for riding, some for partying, some for family. This event brought together virtually every angle of the wwakeboarding community & I am glad we got to see it all ( boats, systems, riders, friends, vids, exhibits, eetc. ) The point is that we can all learn from this experiance in some way or another & continue to better our understanding of each other & our roles in he wakeboard communitty...

~LETS RIDE~

Thank you brotha! We're just continuing what you and gowakin started.

Did anyone catch that this boat has a fog machine?!?!?!?!

THAT IS F'IN SICK!

Props on that sick ass boat. I'd love a pull on Folsom one day, but you have to be spinnin a dope mix!

Did anyone see that boat with 2 turntables? Someone should start a thread on that.

> Did anyone see that boat with 2 turntables? Someone should start a thread on that.



Maybe one on that legendary "Bone Crusher" boat too.

Good post Lzy,It is all about the intent and I'm not talking about this event alone but life in general.

Shawm, Do you happen to have any photos of how you have the tables installed? It looks like you just have the coffin mounted to the ski pole which is sick. I would like to see some more photos if you or any one else has some. I hope someday to have a boat as sick as that.

this is what needs to happen in your boat

I am real late on this. Couple of things that people may or may not realize.

If you don't wakeboard, then it is not wakeboarding. Wakeboard boats are tractors for pulling wakeboarders. That is there design. If they weren't they would come stock with $20,000 in stereo equipment and stripper poles. Maybe we have a new boat market?

Just remember when you put that much weight on your towers, you are throwing the center of gravity way off and will make the boats rock more violently to waves. 6 big A speakers on the tower will do that real nice. The boat was not designed for this.

When you add that many speakers and batteries, if they are not put in at the right locations you will throw off the natural angles your boat should set in the water making it more subseptable to waves.

That much stereo equipment will also more than likely be near or beyond that weight rating of the boat. It will make the boat ride dangerously low in the water and will make it sink to the bottom instead of floating at knee level like it is suppose to. Low setting boats are going to get rocked by waves.

A heavy boat will not react waves the same as a unweighted boat will. Wakeboarders know that a heavy boat is very subseptable to waves over the nose just for the reasons above. That is why you should be nose first into a slip that is facing the main body of a lake. If the rear of the boat was facing the lake, the issue would not happen. Wakeboarders will routinely turn the back of the boat toward a passing boat so they do not get dunked.

If the owners know the docks get punished by freak waves,then maybe there is a preexisting condition of the dock design vs the lake.

I have a bit of an issue with the "driver is responsible for the wake their boat causes" thing. If you are driving outside of a marked area, should people driving really be responsible. They are driving in an area that is marked as safe right? Why would you think you are causing harm. I would say if you knew you were causing harm and then kept doing it you would be liable. Doing what you would reasonably think is a safe act is not irresponsible.

What if the dock is placed in a natural formation that amplifies the waves. Example is different coast line formations that are better for surfing. Shouldn't a person who is looking to profit from boat business and places docks for said business be responsible for dock placement, getting the 5 zone markers placed further out or make a wave barrier? You can not know every natural formation that would cause dangerous rollers.

Also, CIE put on an event with a known Double Up comp. The event is why people were there. The event included a wakeboarding competition. What do people think is going to happen? There are going to be monstrous waves on the lake around the event.

Basically is sounds like anything that happened was a combination of issues and to blame one group is absurd. Everyone had there own share of blame. I hope this crap doesn't cause this event to go away next year because of a few people who don't really know anything about wake boats and wakeboarding events wanted to make a stink.

Rod. IMO a Wakeboard boat is anything you can wakeboard behind. I’m pretty sure they don’t come with $20K stereos NOT because they cant handle them but for many different reasons Ill just list 2 off the top of my head. Each system is very custom and it would be hard to please everyone with a expencieve system. #2 It’s easier for the dealers to let the customers deal with their own system design and maintance. Imagine taking your boat to the dealership to get your expensive system fixed,
Your post makes it sound like people are destroying there boats buy putting these huge systems in them causing them to tip over and sink.
I do agree adding to much equipment and placing weight in the wrong locations can make your boat handle like crap and make it easier to swamp. Most owners know how much and what kind of weight needs to go where. You wouldn’t add 2000 lbs of ballast to the bow of your boat and expect it to handle like stock. I see more people overloading their boat with lead and water balast than systems. IMO adding or customizing your boat in anyway is not what the boats builders designed it for at least that s how it reads in the owners manual. Does that mean you never do anything to it? Read any of the 22 odd warning labels stuck all around your boat that the boat builders put there to "Keep your Safe" trying to get you avoid doing anything to it. It’s all about Cover.Your.A
To sum up my post I think if you plan out a system correctly you can add a big crazy system that does not compromises your boats integrity and usability. Your system should reflect on how you use your boat. That IMO is the biggest mistake most people make. IMO boats that are used like a tractor don’t need a big system in them. Some people get on the water do their thing and get right off and leave the boat in the water all day all night in all kinds of weather. Hell they don’t even need a cooler. Can people that use their boat like this appreciate or justify a big system? Other people get on their boat and do everything all day long and then pull it out and clean the crap out of it and store it away. Different strokes for different folks.

good way to sum it up Grant, thats why there are so many different types of boats out there.

Good summary Grant, but, I will explain what I thought I saw from some of the earlier posts on this thread.

I think that a few people including people from the other website just jumped over the CIE guys without knowing the rest of what I can see from the pictures. The rollers from the boat are not the whole picture. Some people jumped on it like it was the whole picture and it was the CIE guys fault and they should have the book throw at them. I know it is a beaten horse by you know me. I am an opinionated ••••••••••••• think a few people throw big a$$ systems in their boats without regard for how the boat is designed to be used. I don't mean used just for wakeboarding. I mean used for plaining correctly and drive ability. Setting in the water correctly. I am basically pointing out the obvious to most of us, but, I think there are a lot of people that just do not realize the little things. Now those people seem to have a big opinion and they really do not understand how weight in a affects it's ability to handle rollers even when sitting still. How many people come on all the time that do not understand how weighting a boat affects the wake never mind how it affects the boat in general.

I am not saying the boat is going to tip over with a heavy tower, but, it will roll way more than a boat without all the weight high. Just basic physics. A boat with a ton of weight in it sits lower in the water and will take on rollers way easier than a boat that is not loaded. Just a simple fact that people may not realize that are new. Now take into account that boats with batteries usually have them in the front or in the back by all the pictures I see. If they are in the front then you are asking for trouble if a roller comes by. It may even be a roller that normally would not get your boat. That is why you should try and put your back to the open water if you are weighed down.

Some people may not realize that weighing a boat down may hurt the stringer system when on a lift or trailer as well. I have not seen it personally, but, it could.

Then also I think the whole you are "responsible for your boat wake thing" is a little to easy to say, but not easy to prove. Dock design in regards to the lake, bouys that make you thing you are a safe distance for boating, overloaded/ top heavy boats on the dock, a known wakeboarding comp that was organized by guys that advertised it as a wakeboarding comp and get together. I am just saying that the whole thing is silly to jump on those guys only when there is a whole lot of blame to go around. I have not attended an event yet, but, I would hate to have this event ruined because a few people wanted to jump crap on the internet that may not even understand the whole picture on how something like that could happen.

BTW, Stereos are my first love. Used to read every issue of Car Audio and Electronics cover to cover for about 10 years straight. Just don't have those kind of funds to do what I would want to do )

From "Boating Safety" U.S. Coast Guard:

"You are responsible:
As the operator of a vessel, you are required by law to file a formal written report of an accident. There are four conditions that require you to fill out and send in a boating accident report:

These are when....
- a life is lost due to the accident.
- someone is injured and requires medical attention beyond first aid.
- there is damage by or to the vessel and other property.*
- any person on board a vessel disappears (under circumstances indicating possible death or injury.)

Boating accidents include:
- Capsizing
- Falls Overboard
- Collisions
- Fire
- Sinking/Flooding
- Explosions
- Disappearance

* Damage is determined by federal regulation to be reportable when it exceeds $500 or there is complete loss of the vessel. (Note: many states have set a limit less than $500 - contact the local boating authority to determine the amount).

Reports must be filed within...
- 10 days is there is only damage to a vessel and/or property.

Who must fill out the form?
The form is usually filled out by the operator of the boat unless the operator is physically unable to complete the form. If that is the case, then the owner of the vessel must submit the form.

To obtain the forms and report the accident, call the state where the vessel number was issued, or the state where the casualty or accident occurred, if different.

If you need assistance in locating where to call within each state or territory, or reporting an accident, call the U.S. Coast Guard Infoline 800-368-5647.

Why must a report be filed?
The information that you supply is used to develop safety regulations and manufacturing standards for the benefit of the boating public. The information is also used in boating safety education programs and other boating safety initiatives. Without good data, a boating safety hazard might be completely overlooked and other boaters could be hurt or killed.

Ok, Just to put an end to this whole who if anybody was at fault at springride for throwing monster wakes causing damage.

I was parked very close to the two tables boat. Everyone there knew full well what was going on. My boat got tossed several times. It was no one elses fault but my own. Every boat that was tied up at the dock not only could see that the possible wave issue was probably going to happen but would happen. To blame the CIE, their boat or anyone else is stupid!!

I wanted to thank the CIE for a great event and fun weekend! It was soo cool getting to see Live many of the riders that I have watched on videos and TV. I will be there next year with more and largerbumpers. Bring on the waves!

---

quote:

To sum up my post I think if you plan out a system correctly you can add a big crazy system that does not compromises your boats integrity and usability.

---

DOOD you can not tell me you ski behind your boat with that much stereo equipment and batteries......my sugg. sell it and get a V-drive...start wakeboarding!

Ed: My boat has 252 Lbs of battery's located in the trunk. Any weight added to the back of the boat effects the ski wake. My wife dosent seem to have any problem with it. Here is a pic of her and Mikeski cutting it up behind the Bling Bling.


we ski'd and wakeboarded yesterday after everybody on the lake went home and we had it all to our selfs.
I took the balast tanks out of my boat to add room so I could store the batterys in the location they currently sit plus I gained a bunch of space. I my stock ballast tanks held 400 lbs and took up a bunch of room. Here is a link to the Trunk of funk thread where I took the tanks out. http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/361874.html
I now use a 600 LB fat sack for wakeboard balast. Yes its not as easy to fill balast as it was stock but IMO the trade off was worth it. I only have so much space so somthings gotta give.
So here again my set up might not be what works for you but works prefict for how we use it. My boats 6 years old and we have figured out how to make it work for us. Each year that goes buy IMO my boat gets better and better so selling it and having to go threw a new boat and re-invent my idea what works for me is the last thing on my mind.

any pics of the ski wake after the stereo system install?

The reason why this dead horse won't go away is becuase the wakeboarding community has finally stumbled upon a revelation that the rest of the boating world has been dealing for awhile now..

There really is other people out there other then the people in your boat and the wakeboarder behind you. Some of these wakes are getting way outta hand.

It saddens me that some sick rides got hurt in the process, but hopefully as much as this as been discussed, maybe some drivers will start learning some common courtesy with regards to buzzing the docks. It's a huge problem down where I boat.. Last weekend another wakeboard boat running full ballast, damn near put some boats on top of a dock when he cruised by throwing the largest wake possible (with no rider I might add)

RD

Grant, your wife looks like a great skier, now we know why you have a direct drive.

I had a 25 ft cuddie cabin power turn in front of me and launched my boat and broke my engine mount. Had what looked like the same boat another time come in hot to the no wake zone and throw a monster wake just as I was taking off and it threw my boat into the shallow side of the sleugh and bent my prop. Point is, it is just not wakeboarders and we are aware of our wake in general. Personally I think it should be illegal to have a boat with about 1 ft of freeboard. That is just silly to have one in an open water lake and expect all other types of boats to be careful of them nevermind the natural rollers that happen from wind. Wakeboarders generally like to go to secluded areas with no waves and drive in straight lines. They do not like to power turn and throw rollers everywhere (even though I do see people do it).

I think what people in there fast and extremely dangerous highspeed boats are mad about is the fact that boating is not a exclusive sport anymore and wakeboarding just happens to be the sport of choice. They are more mad about the amount of boats rather than the type of boat.

I tell you I have had to go over near 6 ft rollers from cabin cruisers on too many occasions to count. Almost ran over once by one of those damn high powered boats coming around a blind corner at near full throttle as well. Ihave met my share of idiot wakeboarders as well, but, I think wakeboarders have way more numbers it is a smaller percentage. A few of those boats in the picture and even out on the delta on ski beach do not even pull wakeboarders. They just use them as a platform to party with.

There used to be this lady coming into Discovery Bay Marina that would sit on her load speaker yelling at people to slow down and don't throw a wake. What an idiot she was. People would cruise by very slow. She would be yelling and the white caps from the wind were just pounding, but, she was out yelling at people when their wakes were tint compared to the wind. Go figure.

Rod, I would agree with that. The vast majority of wakeboard boats down by me aren't wakeboard boats, they are party platforms.

Point in fact, that would be the primary reason I would get one is becuase they are great party platforms.

As far as your previous post.. In 99% of all instances you want the boat bow out towards the open water with the transom at the beach. You might have some funky boat where the boat sits low, and the ass sits high, but the vast majority of all boats are the opposite.

RD

At the beach I tie up if my boat is floating and unloaded with my nose out. Unweighted my nose will move up and down instead of biting into the wake. If you have an open bow and a lot of weight I do not think I want to be bow first. The bow will take on water. It will try and cut through the first the wake and then when the wake goes by the nose of the boat will dive into the next wave. (kind of like the pictures above) Usually when we ride we will turn the boat away from other wakeboard boats passing by because the bow will not react the same as an unweighted boat. Unwieghted boat will move better with the wake. With a V-drive wakeboat, it is hard to throw a roller over the back even when weighted. You will bob and weave more due to the surface area of the back but you will be dry. One trick we use if we are stopped and get stuck nose first by a passing boat, we will throw the boat into reverse and it will match the wake coming at us and the wake passes by harmlessly.

You should try wakeboarding. You will be hooked.

Amen, Rod..... I think you're right on point.

Dave, you have been guilty of making generalizations on a bunch of posts now. You aren't a wakeboarder and I question your place here on a wake forum. Yet you have a right to be here and speak your mind. Wake boats are different beasts from what you are used to.

Truth be told, most wake boats make small wakes unless additionally ballasted. It's more about shape than anything. Experienced riders go and add more weight to make the wake bigger and harder. These same experienced riders are generally the ones that understand boating ettiquite and are usually respectful of others. There are always a few bad apples, but for the most part I've been very impressed by the serious riders. These are also the same guys that are usually off the water by the time the yahoos show up.

Wake boats, when loaded, generally sit higher in the rear. When boats come by and send us rollers we either turn and face the back or side to the rollers. The nose will go up over the first roller, then punch down right through the next. There is an art to keeping your crew dry when driving a loaded wake boat. It's also the reason that you never see a heavily loaded boat doing power turns. It just makes it almost impossible not to bury yourself in your own rollers.

I fear that the only "wakeboarders" that you have had much contact with are the idiots out there that'd be doing the same thing in I/O's a few years ago. Wakeboats are popular for their size and comfort and as such have become the family boat of choice. It's a shame to see real wakeboarders getting a bad rep as a result of the weekend warriors out there that don't know what they're doing.

Should boating safety classes be mandatory? Probably, but it'd just be one more bit of freedom we'd be handing over. It's probably inevitable in the future. I would also say that the "hotboaters", yachters, family boaters and wakeboarders are equally to blame. I've seen each group doing stupid stuff out there. I've seen too many close calls to count out of each of these groups. I've been following a friends boat when it got rolled over by a yacht plowing a ton of water. I've seen a kid almost get run over by a offshore boat going way too fast in the delta. I've also had weekend warriors loop around the side of my boat when their rider falls doing a power turn and drag their rope around the nose of my boat while sitting still. S#%t happens out there. All you can really do is be careful yourself and try to teach those around you to be safe.

I agree Great post

how do you all come up with boat names

my wifes madin name Huntress, my boat The Huntress.

all eyez on me. its because im a huge tu pac fan