zero off killed perfect pass?

(dizzyj) · (dizzyj) **Join Date: Jul 2003** 08-05-2008, 8:17 AM

am I reading this right? from the zero off page:
About Zero Off & Perfect Pass?
In May of 2008 AquaStar, Inc./EControls, Inc. & Perfect Pass signed an agreement that states;

* 1) Perfect Pass will not offer drive by wire systems to boat OEM's beginning 2009 boat model year.
* 2) Perfect Pass will not offer retrofit systems for 2009 model year for drive by wire applications.
* 3) Perfect Pass is licensed to sell Star Gazer to its existing customer base until the beginning of 2009 boat model year.
* 4) Zero Off will not retrofit mechanically/servo driven applications.

so pp is not allowed to sell drive by wire, nor gps systems? all it can do is retrofit old boats?

(behindtheboat) · (behindtheboat) **Join Date: Aug 2006** 08-05-2008, 8:40 AM

yep. Seems to be the outcome of patents and infringement, and agreements.

The critical point is the not retro-fitting. If you want ZO you have to get a new boat. Not good if you're a competitive skier.

(Message edited by behindtheboat on August 05, 2008)

(wakereviews) · (wakereviews) **Join Date: Sep 2006** 08-05-2008, 9:04 AM

wow, that is nuts. But can PP retrofit using the paddlewheel systems (Wakeboard Pro 6.5) and Zero Off can sell GPS based systems only to DBW boats.

So, GPS based speed control will not be available to any non-DBW boats after 2009 because ZO doesn't have a retrofit kit and can't sell it anyway...

ouch.

(monkey) · (monkey) **Join Date: Oct 2002** 08-05-2008, 9:10 AM

But the original Perfect Pass paddlewheel system works perfectly. Why would you want anything else? Just more stuff that will break.

(dizzyj) · (dizzyj) **Join Date: Jul 2003** 08-05-2008, 9:18 AM

because I would like to buy a new boat with a perfect pass drive by wire setup, which is killer, but there not allowed to sell them.

(ldr) · (ldr) **Join Date: Nov 2002** 08-05-2008, 9:19 AM

I thought that PP was doing systems with DBW boats prior to Zero Off.

The big problem that I see is what if you don't want a gps based system and you have a DBW boat?

What are your options then?

(innov8) · (innov8) **Join Date: May 2005** 08-05-2008, 9:34 AM

Zero off is a much better system then perfect pass.
I would never want to go back to PP after using ZO this season.

(dizzyj) · (dizzyj) **Join Date: Jul 2003** 08-05-2008, 9:35 AM

*insert zero off river current discussion here*

(unclejessie) · (unclejessie) **Join Date: Jan 2004** 08-05-2008, 9:42 AM

ha ha.. i'll start that discussion right. Zero-off for river riding will be horrible... you have to guess at the speed of the making each set you take a slightly different speed if teh river is slightly faster or slower. GPS speed contoll is NOT the end all... I will keep my paddle wheel!!

(monkey) · (monkey) **Join Date: Oct 2002** 08-05-2008, 2:18 PM

I still don't get it. What's the point of adding a GPS and what exactly does "drive by wire" mean? Is the throttle cable called a "wire" now?

GPS seems like just another layer of complexity and something else to go wrong. What exactly is it supposed to gain you? It seems like the only way to figure out your speed relative to the water is to have something in contact with the water. You're not trying to hold a constant speed with respect to the shoreline or with respect to a group of satellites with fluctuating RAIM and reception status. You just need a device that senses how fast the water is rushing by, and adjusts your throttle setting accordingly.

(innov8) · (innov8) **Join Date: May 2005** 08-05-2008, 2:32 PM

Drive by wire has NO CABLES its a electronic throttle system.
Here is some info on Zero Off.

http://www.zerogps.com/

(monkey) · (monkey) **Join Date: Oct 2002** 08-05-2008, 3:09 PM

Oh, interesting. In the future, maybe they can interface it with my ipod and make the engine dance to the music... also, I'm thinking a real-time google earth interface on an LCD screen... ya, that's the ticket, google earth... maybe it can take over the steering as well to reduce power turns...

(wake_upppp) · (wake_upppp) **Join Date: Nov 2003** 08-05-2008, 5:14 PM

More electronic controls means more to go wrong. I'll keep my paddle wheel as well. It's a solid system IMHO.

(boardcrazy) · (boardcrazy) **Join Date: Oct 2003** 08-05-2008, 5:44 PM

Everything I have read in previous threads says that Zero Off is the way to go, with the exceptions of those on the rivers. People seem to think it's more reliable because you don't have to adjust the settings for weight and it holds it speed in double ups and rough water. I personally have never tried it. I have perfect pass on my boat now and it works great, but I always wanted to try Zero Off. Too bad the two companies can't get together to work something out. They both offer a good product that would be even better together...

(silvermustang35)

I talked with Perfect Pass earlier today and they were awesome to deal with (as always) and I inquired about the new stargazer wake edition for my I/O. I asked them what was going on with everything between them and Zero Off and the guy explained to me that Zero Off has the newer boat models that are ECU controlled and Perfect pass will no longer be in those boats that are ECU controlled. Their newest Stargazer is GPS controlled. Perfect pass (from what I understood) will be able to support past models but won't be putting them on future models but they stated that Zero Off doesnt want anything to do with any engine not ECU controlled. Guy was super nice and said that prices could be going up next year if Zero Off hits them hard on the numbers...just wanted to give a heads up :-)

...as for me im getting my stargazer this winter ...hopefully that will help...also they mentioned for the I/O owners that in the future, couple years away, that they are wanting to integrate a trim piece into the perfect pass system that adjusts trim and speed settings together...that would be pretty awesome...

(da_bomber) · (da_bomber) **Join Date: Aug 2008** 08-05-2008, 8:22 PM

I do not understand cause perfect pass has StarGazer which is GPS and does not require paddle wheel so what is all the Hype? and what is the difference? Perfect Pass started it all why Change?

(lionel) · (lionel) **Join Date: Nov 2005** 08-05-2008, 10:51 PM

C.F.,

Zero Off had the patent. They flexed their muscles and PP backed down. From what I hear Zero Off customer service might be questionable. PP is good.

(Message edited by lionel on August 05, 2008)

(kneeboarder8806)

doesnt this kinda create a monopoly with Zero off coming out on top?

(mobv) · (mobv) **Join Date: Jun 2002** 08-06-2008, 3:55 AM

This is about intellectual property and patent protection. Zero Off did their homework and registered an invention for a speed control system using GPS and the engine control module. Now they have 17 years of patent protection unless someone can design a system that does not violate their invention patent.

Just like Correct Craft has a patent on towers and receives a royalty from every tower sold.

(mobv) · (mobv) **Join Date: Jun 2002** 08-06-2008, 3:59 AM

Here is a link to the patent description.

http://www.google.com/patents?id=UTeAAAAAEBAJ&dq=GPS+Boat+Speed+Control

(wakebdr2002) · (wakebdr2002) **Join Date: Apr 2007** 08-06-2008, 11:38 AM

Does anyone know how this will affect Supra with their integrated wake plate/perfect pass?

(monkey) · (monkey) **Join Date: Oct 2002** 08-06-2008, 12:39 PM

what's the point of an integrated control unit when the response time of throttle cable far exceeds the acceleration/deceleration rate of any normal boat? Anyone?

(otown_dave) · (otown_dave) **Join Date: Dec 2007** 08-06-2008, 8:39 PM

read this http://www.perfectpass.com/download/PerfectPass-EControls-press-release.pdf