OK here goes..."I hate perfect pass"

This is the second boat that I have boarded behind that has non-perfect pass..I mean PERFECT PASS and I can say this..my wife pulls better!! When the boats are weighted the perfect pass cant keep up! Just way to much surging. It clicks on at 11-15 mph..hesitation. Then it pulls you too fast..then it has to slow down..then it slows too much and the weight of the boat is too much for it and it has to surge again..too fast..too slow. Why do you like it? What am I missing here? Jet

I assume you know about the KDW and NN settings.
If you have tried to adjust them and cannot get the desired results you may want to try to add an extra return spring, to help PP return quicker I have had the same problem and after I added the extra spring the PP was solid steady pull you are looking for.

There are a couple of pics in this thread on another site that I posted

http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=23593&page=2

I have used a PP and I can honestly say I prefer a good driver to a perfect pass, especailly coming out of a turn when it is set at 25 and you are going 31 out of a turn. It really is no substitute for a good driver.

hmm how about a good driver to know you need to throttle down some around turns and a correctly installed PP. You also have to know how to throttle into the set speed, and not just ounch and hope it will take over. I run about 2500-3500 pponds in mine and never have a surge problem. max differance is maybe 3 tenths, and that thru chop. Ive seen people who dont have it installed right and they have those problems. I wont even ride behind a boat without it.

(Message edited by nsolis220 on July 05, 2008)

Well said Nick. A good driver with Perfect Pass is the key.

Yup.. you still gotta drive the boat regardless of PP. I wouldnt have it any other way.

IMO there is no way a good driver without speed control can be hold speed as well as Perfect Pass and an adequate driver knowing what they are doing and having your setting correct.

I think the biggest problem that affects PP is how you come onto speed. I have witnessed several new boat owners (and the people they let drive their new boat) just floor the throttle and then totally let go of the throttle. The result is surging and a horrible pull. You have to manually drive the boat to speed, which means you must have the throttle pulled back yourself by the time the desired speed is hit. I always tell the people who drive for me to drive the boat manually, and if they get distracted, well...PP will help minimize the speed fluctuations. The driver needs to be constantly cross-checking speed & RPM, so that they can give a little love here and there when necessary (heavy edging, wind direction change, etc. etc.). PP does make a huge difference, it's not perfect, but it really does help.

I would agree as i also hate PP. for all the same reasons you have mentioned. with that being said i figured it it was more my wife not kowing how to use it (not really her fault she is has never driven an inboard b4) when we first picked up our 03 tige we went out and she dam near killed me must of had me at 40mph+ so i thought there was something wrong with PP. put after spending time in it i found its like the other guys are saying you still have to work the throttle. i go with drop hammer/rider breaks surface pull back about half way on my boat depending on size of rider ballast and all that jazz. i also back off the throttle in the turns a little so i dont whip the •••••••• of a new rider if it someone who knows how to ride i dont mess with it but i give new riders a little help and have found this to help them alot. all this being said i still hate PP. i have been behind newer tiges with tige speed set and it worked MUCH better. i think if you just change the way you drive a little you will be ok it worked for me but i do feal your pain.

(Message edited by kko13 on July 05, 2008)

I've had 3 boats with Perfect Pass, the latest is a Centurion with a PCM engine that has Throttle by Wire. With this verison you just put the throttle down and never touch it until your ready to stop. It locks in better and has less surge than any previous version. It is also capable of driving double-ups with no assistance.

Earlier versions with a throttle cable required assistance in turns and the driver had to pull back on the throttle to reduce overshoot and surging when getting to speed.

I would not have a boat without PP.

I just ordered PP for my boat so its interesting to hear all the different thoughts about it on here. I will say, I think every boat owner knows his/her boat. I pull people way better than my brother/friends pull because I know my boat. I can hear the change in engine noise before I see it on the dash. Im just getting it so I can enjoy driving a little more and pay more attention on busy lake days. It seems like boaters (not all) are getting dumber all the time. Anyway, thanks to all those who have put in their experience tips on this thread. It will probably keep me from posting a "I hate PP" thread if Im operating it wrong.

Trevor,
If there was a poll of PP haters/supporters, I'd go out on a limb and say 97% love PP. The others either can't drive or the settings are wrong. My $.02

I agree Rod. It seems to me almost all I hear is how good it is. However, as with all other technologies that help us and make life easier I can see how easy it is to say you hate it if you dont understand the mechanics behind it. My GF Hated computers because she couldnt operate one. Now after some classes and proper training she cant live without it. I can easily see how the same thing would happen with PP issues. Just from what ive read and understand so far I think there are a few things with PP that you have to keep calibrated and have properly adjusted to work correctly. Also if im understanding people on here correctly you need to still have some manual adjustments and it works better if brought up to speed in the correct fashon. I have only owned a boat a few years and will say my knowledge in boating and safety on the water has increased 20x more since ive been on this forum. Thanks to all who make it possible and hopefully I can pass on some of what ive learned as well in the future.

Ouch, haters coming at me. Just puting in my .02 like anyone else. As far as holding speed, put the digital tach on the number and its hard for anyone to screw that up. I have driven PP and know how to do it, on a newer boat with nearly 0 resistanc on the throttle, it is almost a must, but in general I still prefer to row my own throttle as does my driver. We have had discussions about if I should upgrade and get one, but after a couple first hand experiences with them, we both said "what for"

Not trying to start a complaint/flame fest but that is how I looked at it. I have good drivers where it isnt hard for them or me to control a speed we determine so why go and spend over a grand on something we are perfectly fine doing ourselves. My .02

This is our first boat with any kind of speed control. We run PP in RPM mode & I don't notice much in the way of surging thru the corners at all. Occasionally a strong rider will slow it down 2 or 3 mph at most.

MPH mode on the other hand, I notice all kinds of speeding up & slowing down. Seems odd because I would have thought this would be the mode that worked best. Guess not.

As it is said above, once you have the NN and KDW numbers set correctly, PP works well in our our boat with about 2000 lbs in ballast. But it was unhappy until we found the correct settings. Definitely still need a good driver but PP makes them a better deriver. For us, the keys are:

Pulling up with the correct amount of throttle. Too little and it will surge and struggle to hold speed, too much and it over shoots quite a bit.

Slow down about 1.5 mph in turns when using the Speed control feature.

Make sure your boat is propped correctly and your engine is in its power band.

sounds like you don't know how to drive/use the PP. I actually prefer the PP to other speed control systems were you cannot throttle in/out of turns. It sounds like you are not setting it with the correct amount of throttle as stated above, same with the KDW and NN settings. you should read your manual.

The most important setting in the Perfect Pass is the CS. Most people don't know about it or ever adjust it. I controls how the cruise engages. With a little manipulation you can get your PP way better. To be honest I couldn't tell you how to get to it anymore. I have been a Zero Off(it works great no matter how much weight you have in the boat) guy for the past 2 years. But, I am sure you owners manual can point you in the right direction. But with any cruise you still have to drive a little bit like these guys have been saying. The driver can make any cruise perform better.

I've never heard of the CS setting, but KDW and NN will help. NN is how many speed samples it takes before making an adjustment, and KDW is how aggressive of a correction it makes.

I waited forever to finally drop the cash to add it to my boat, and now I wouldn't own another boat without some kind of speed control.

You do have to help it out a little when starting off and in corners, but otherwise mine holds speed within 1 mph all the time.

I LOVE PP!!!! As stated above- get your settings right and know how to drive with it. I have been in a couple of bnoats that are all screwed up on the settings, but when you get it dialed right, there's nothing better- the wake is super consistent, even when you ( the rider) pull REALLY hard , PP compensates. Also - ( i think this was already said too) make sure your tension spring is getting it handled for you- or replace it.

Hey Travis- I am finally landing my rolls consistently! Your tips were great- just needed to relax and let it happen!

In additon to the KDW and NN settings, if you are running heavy ballast you must have a prop that will accomodate the ballast or Perfect Pass will have a tough time keeping up. A CNC prop that is picthed to handle heavy ballast will help the boat keep a constant speed much easier. After upgrading the stock prop that came with my Supra to a 14.25x14 prop, Perfect Pass surging in turns has pretty much be eliminated.

Obviously people have different opinions, but after driving my boat for 2 years without Perfect Pass, I can say now that I have Perfect Pass I won't have another boat without it. IMO, if your Perfect Pass is surging that much, either the settings are off or the prop is not the right prop to accomodate the ballast you're running.

Perfect Pass is my best friend.... Used with and without, and IMO a must have.

I gotta say though, I used to be a good driver without, but now I suck (probably a skill I need to get back)

Perfect Pass has done more for watersports than almost any other product. I would much rather board behind a old boat with PP than a new boat without. I have been using PP for about 10 years now. Once you understand the system it is an absolute must to get consistent good pulls. Once it is set up properly it eliminates one variable from your ride.

Most consider me to be a pretty darn good driver, yesterday I was pulling a friend behind his boat without PP. Most of his ride was good but I did accidentally get up to 28mph after going through a bunch of boats where I could not keep one eye on the speedo. Oh yeah, then the speedo picked up some weeds and stopped working.

PP is a must.

RPM mode - problem solved.

When I pull I actually challenge myself to get perfect pass "set in" before it can adjust my speed. The closer you get your speed to the set speed the less surging. If I do overshoot my target speed substantially I will manually get the speed closer while perfect pass is adjusting to get rid of some of the surging.

I agree with what has been said about people thinking they can just floor it and let PP do the rest. PP is more of a auxiliary device to HELP with throttle control, not a replacement. Having come from driving many years without perfect pass my hand is always on the throttle in the proper "pinch grip" regardless of whether perfect pass is engaged. I have also found that I can drive pretty good double ups with perfect pass engaged, you just have to over-ride the throttle manually to help with the dog leg setup and bringing the boat back to speed coming around for the DU.

"Perfect Pass has done more for watersports than almost any other product"

????????

Wow! Not sure how we managed before this product became available. I'll take bigger wakes, 3-stage rocker and molded-in fins over PP any day. Actually, depending on the boat, PP is not always necessary. My last boat held speed really well. Here's a hint though, don't use the speedo, use the RPM's.

I believe the joke goes, "Perfect Pass - saving marriages since 1998".

that what sold me! i dont have to bitch at my girl or friends anymore. I had a friend that liked to play around and speed me up to like 27 or 28. With the PP he has no excuses. He did it again to be a jerk off i smacked the shizz outta him. B4 i couldnt prove he wasnt doing it on purpose.

now lets talk about Star Gazer since I just got it and will be installing it tonight!

I think more people come on here complaining about Perfect Pass because they arent out on their boat...so while you guys complain about it.. I am on my boat enjoying it!

I'm with you Hate....I've had PP for 5 years. I ride my X-2 dumped on a twisting river all the time with 4-6mph current alone. We got it adjusted as far as NN and such and Its always stays within 1mph-1.5mph. I dont have Travis Moye driving my boat and guar-un-tee its better than 90% of anyone else manually handling the throttle!!! That being said, you MUST chaneg the stock settings when adding ballast and current into the equation fellas. Just add a litle throttle through your corners then let PP re-take it. Works awesome.

My question is....

DONT BASH A PRODUCT WHEN YOU DONT KNOW HOW TO USE IT.

I hate my 60" Panasonic Plasma TV... it is always fuzzy. But as soon as I get the tin foil and rabbit ears pointed in the right direction... it clears up quite a bit!

I test drove a 2009 X-Star last weekend and it was a piece of crap! No hole shot! Then I found out I was trying to pull people up in reverse...

You know... when you find out something isnt working as described... I figured I had to look into it a little bit further!