Tige' NO BALLAST WAKE

Tige' advertise that ballast is not needed for a good wake. TRUE?????

OH GOD, did you just open flood gates for bashing,

Yes, it's true, depending on your skills. If you are beginner to intermediate, you probably wont need it. If you are a more advanced rider, you will probably want ballast. If you read through the complete article/add, it explains it. Bottom line, wakes are a matter of opinion, and the only one that counts is your as the perspective buyer!

Go sea trial the models that you are interested, that's the best advice. If ordering a new boat GET BALLAST, bottom line, if buying used and it doesn't have ballast, it can be added if you like the boat and the price is right.

For pics and honest opinions about the wake, check out www.tigeowners.com

(Message edited by chpthril on December 29, 2008)

(Message edited by chpthril on December 29, 2008)

You need weight in order to have a "good" wake in any boat. Some boats will take more or less than others, but to say you need no ballast at all, that is a complete joke.

What about a surf wake with no ballast in a Tige. Is it possible?????

Surf wake, which boat?

22 Ve or RZ2

Both those boats are virtually the same hull, and both a totally surfable with no added ballast. It makes it a little harder to learn, but is doable. They respond great to added ballast, and really put out a sweet wake with as little as 800#'s (what I currently run) and gets monstrous with more ballast or added people.

I presently have an X2 & have to use a fatsack to surf with only a driver in the boat. Will a Tige surf w/o a fatsack or many people? Thanks for your knowledge!!!!

Honestly, you will enjoy the surf wake much better with some ballast. If we have a few peeps, we usually just fill the 455#'r in the rear/port locker. If it's just the wife and I, I throw another 400#'s on the seat.

If buying new, just get the infloor ballast, that way you won't lose any storage and it's there in case you ever want to play w/ it. Plus it'll help w/ resale.

But yes, it's possible... on my 24V we had 3 people in the boat, including the driver, and were able to get a totally rideable surf wake w/o any fatsacks. So it's possible.

Great. It sounds like Tige has better wake w/o all the weight. Thanks....

Tony,

Here's a pic of my 22Ve with 2 peeps in the boat + 855 in ballast. Over the winter, i'm upgrading to a 1K custom sac, so no more sacs in the seat!

[IMG]http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x101/chpthril/IMG_5556.jpg[/IMG]

The wake looks good & easy to surf OR are you just good?

I suggest you test drive one first though. Going from a sacked out X2 to a Tige w/ no ballast, expecting the same thing, will give you nothing but dissapointment.

For surfing, I'd really recommend a little weight.

That is actually a fellow Tige owner on his 2nd time out on a surf board. It was taken last Nov. (07)

If you look at my profile pic, you'll see how I surf

Where's the beer Mike?

CP3 drank them all that day

I've got one in my TO profile, guess I should change it!

Tony

Totally doable with no ballast. My RZ2 doesn't have ballast in it and absolutely love it. I normally go out with 5 to 6 people so never had a problem with the wake. I did see a boat with the new ballast system and have to say it is very nice feature keeping in mind more weight only means an even bigger wake. With or without, I love my Tige.

CP3? Educate me.

^^^ CP3 is the username of a Tigeowner that I ride with.

Are you working with one of the TN dealers? If so, which one?

Hey Mike! I checked the profile pic. Next summer try a good & cold LandShark from the surf position, it don't get much better.

^^^ We just started getting Land Shark here, I love it!!!

[IMG]http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x101/chpthril/IMG_5461.jpg[/IMG]

That doesnt look like landshark. What is that.... fat tire?

+3 or the landshark though.

If I remember correctly, it's a Kona! Dont have the original on this PC any more.

"Kona"

How fitting! LOL

right about now I like to post that video of a young scott Byerly killing it behind a flightcraft outboard barefoot boat back in the day(90's) but for some reason wakeboardreport does not open for me right now. otherwise you'd be seeing how a big wake and ballast are not needed. its over there when the site works again.
he gives a clinic that is more of a show.
I can't find that video anywhere else.

x2... but unfortunately, no matter how many times you tell people that, they don't listen!

---

quote:

otherwise you'd be seeing how a big wake and ballast are not needed.

---

no, they're not needed, but they sure make riding and learning a lot easier and a lot more fun. and yeah, ask any pro, including the aforementioned byerly, if they prefer ballast or no ballast. guess which they'd pick.

I ride behind an 07 RZ2, and with the taps at 8 the wake is pretty good, but it doesn't even compare to the wake we have with weight. The size increases a lot but the amount of pop you get from the wake increases a crazy amount.
We ride with 1,650lbs of ballast (1 750 in the walkway and 2 450s in the back) with the taps between 5 and 6 and the wake is a dream.

Yes, I also have an RZ2 and do not have ballast yet. My skills are not that great but I do have the option of putting a ballast system in anytime I want to. Tiges, on an average, do weigh more than the other brands. Sometimes 500-900 lbs more. The only boat that I know that it does not weigh more is the X-Star that I can see. So, compared with the other boats at the same length, the additional weight can be determined as "ballast".

That is correct dabell,My boat weight dry is 4900 so it can be used without ballast but its not the same as a sacked out boat.Just a little better than most without it.
With that said I would never surf any boat without major weight.Just not much fun without it.

You can do all the tricks you want with no ballast, but you will look like a 1980's trick skier.

^^^ hahaha

I would agree or have a ton of people

W/O trying to stir up a hornets nest.... the X-star will not throw half the wake the Tige will UNWEIGHTED (yes I've tried it), due to hull design. Simple physics.

which tige are you talking about because i've road behind an 07 tige and an 04 x-star and the tige wake was very similar in size

and all wake board boats can be road with out any weight and be just fine for most beginner to intermediate but put some weight in that boat then you got something worth talking about.

Till you have water in the boat in my eyes all wakes are •••••

W/o trying to stir up a hornets nest... the Tige will not throw half the wake of the Xstar will when both boats are WEIGHTED them same (yes I've tried it), due to the hull design.
Simple physics.

ohh bob i do no that as well. i never got to run a tige with more then 2000lbs in it but the xstar with 2000lbs and the tige with 2000lbs in them the xstar out performed it from what i saw. Faster on to plain, bigger wake, and smoother transitions. But each person likes to ride something different i just like mine big and smooth. thats why i run 3500LBS. if i wanted just a straight wall of water for a wake i'd get a SAN cause there wakes are like hitting a brick wall.

I have a 21V ( 2001) and for the first 4 years, I ran without ballast and the wake was OK - especially for the beginner-level riding I was doing. Today I run a 600lb bag in the walkway and 400lbs on either side of the engine. The wake is outstanding. once and a while I'll ride without filling the sacs and it makes doing inverts and spins a bit tougher- but then I go back to a weighted boat and MAN can I get air! It's actually not a bad training technique as you need to really get your form dialed in with no weight.

Tige's and Nautiques pretty much weigh the same, so I don't know why people are saying Tige's are heavier boats.

RZ4 4,485 24ft
230 4,300 23ft
Z1 3,714 21ft
210 3,800 21ft
RZ2 4,150 22ft
220 4,070 22ft

^^^ They did a few models years back, but everyone else caught up, so it's kinda a moot point now.

(Message edited by chpthril on December 31, 2008)

The actual weight of the boat doesn't mean much as far as size of a wake is concerned. Anyone trying to say a Tige doesn't need weight because it weighs more, that's ridiculous. I'm not saying they do or don't need weight, but if a Tige weighs 200-300 lbs more than a similar model from another manufacturer, but drafts the same or less what boat do you think will have the bigger wake?

^^^ If the weight of a boat doesn't create a larger wake, then why do we all add ballast (weight) to our boats? The only people that seem to dell on the statement that "Tiges dont need ballast" are the haters, the rest of us know that Tige, like any other brand will benefit from ballast if your skills require!

Obviously adding weight to any boat is going to displace more water, but I'm talking dry weight. A 210 drafts 28", lets say a Z1 drafts 24" (just guessing, but I doubt the Z1 is drafts much more than 24"), which do you think will have a bigger wake without ballast?

I'm not hating, I've had some of my best sets behind an RZ2 without ballast (with 14 adults might as well consider it ballast though).

Spotts, you are contradictory here. You say on the one hand that the draft is what makes the bigger wake, but that the weight does not matter. What do you think makes the draft of the boat? It is the weight divided by the surface area. A 210 likely sits deeper because it is narrower and has less surface area. But remember, the top of that equation is always going to be the weight of the machine.

If you could make a wakeboat 3 feet wide and still weigh 3500 pounds, you could have a 45 inch draft and maybe a heck of a wake.

Keep in mind that wakeboats are all pretty much within 6 inches of width close to one another. Some are 102 inches, and some are 96 inches. Most fit in between those dimensions, so you are talking less than %6 difference in surface area for boats of the same length...assuming that when they are on plane, they run the same length of the boat on the surface. That is also where hull shape comes into play.

Draft is measured at the prop tip, so is prone to several other variables.

A convex v hull by design is adjusting the draft while you are moving, going tail done , the other designs are pushing the tail up thus they have to have ballast or other sources to increase draft.

I hope that my comment that Tige's weight more than the average did not come off as we don't need ballast. We could definitely use ballast and will be putting ballast in my boat over time but right now, I am very, very happy with the size of the wake that I have. Personally, I don't need any more nor does anyone in my family need more at this time.

I have found that when you load a Tige down with a lot of ballast (2500-3000 Lbs) Then you have to run the taps down at around 1-3 to keep the wake consistent. That in my opinion takes away the whole convex v idea. For a beginner Ballast is not needed. Every boat is different and thats where hull shape takes over and why some boats are better then others.

I've noticed usually around 4 is good when loaded down in my boat.

^^^ This is EXACTLY what the TAPS system is for, cleaning/adjusting wake as riding conditions change i.e ballast, # of passengers, rider speed, line length. It's not taking away from the Convex idea, it's proving it works $.02

It's all a bunch of gimmicks. If TAPS and convex v were such a good idea others would follow..None do. In fact it is Tige who follows other builders...IMO. You guys will say that Tige has the patent so no one else can copy it but that too is a bunch of bull corn. With that said they are great boats, just don't let them sell you on Taps and convex v as the most revolutionary wake idea of the decade.....like I said a gimmick. Watch the Tige lovers contradict themselves to defend the post. They will say that everyone copied them on the wakeplate. Then they will say it's not just a wakeplate, that it only works with convex v. Again advertising hype. Now, let's wait for Tigemike and Ryan Lacefield to chime in...it should be pretty quick. One more thing, what boats are the 3 most celebrated in our sport for the best wakes? I would say they are the 210, VLX, and X-star. None have Taps, convex V or trim plates. Hmmmm ..

"If TAPS and convex v were such a good idea others would follow..None do"

Supra: started using an adjustable trim plate and has removed hook from it's hull

MC: uses a power trip plate and removed hook from its hull

CC: uses an adjustable plate and has removed the hook from their hulls

Moomba: uses an adjustable plate

Centurion: has it's "Cascading Hull" )hmm, can you say...ROCKER) and uses a power plate

"what boats are the 3 most celebrated in our sport for the best wakes? I would say they are the 210, VLX, and X-star. None have Taps, convex V or trim plates"
Well duh, of course they dont have "TAPS and Convex-V) cause its a trade name, but the 210 has the Hydo-Gate (go read the description, it's exactly like the TAPS) and, if im not mistaken, MC did/does offer a Plate on the X-Star or other model(s)

Ponyh8r, you might want to check your facts. As TigeMike stated, there are other companies that have trim tabs.

Other companies that have them that TigeMike hasn't listed are:

Epic
MB

Sanger and Supreme do as well!

Agh... Here we go. So maybe I'm wrong...no I'm not! So if they all have em' what makes TAPS so special? A removable hook from the hull does not mean convex v.. Just a wake specific hull. After all convex v and taps must work together.

As far as the 210 you must know I meant the models up until 06. Which had no hydrogate.

I think its loony how a whole group of people have developed a opinion of a boat baised on internet hearsay.Thats not much different than smoking crack because a crackhead told you it tasted good.I know for a fact the majority of people have never rode behind one and don't even have a right to post a single word about the subject.I do however own one and can clear up a few things for the people that would like to know the truth.
1.The infamous metcraft tower,Everybody is real quick to point out that tiges have defective towers when infact they only offered that tower just over a year and that was a decade ago.They also had half a dozen metcraft towers that work just fine.
2.Taps is a trimtab the same trimtab every other wakeboat has nowadays and making a big deal out of it is a waste of everybodys time.
3.weight,I have weighted my boat close to four grand and found the wake to be very stable over twenty mph.I have also dialed in the surf wake for some of the best surfing I have ever had in my life.Most peoples opinions of tige wakes are baised on internet hearsay and I urge anyone that wants the truth to ride it first hand.
4.spray pockets,Eveyone makes a big deal about the spraypockets on the older tiges but the reality is a lot of boats use them to improve visability.Most well known would be the cc 210 and some supras to name a few.So I guess if its good enough for the famous 210 its good enough for me.
Of course I knew none of this when I went to test drive the tige I own now and would have passed it up had I put more stock in some internet jerkoffs opinion of something he knows nothing about.

On a different note,The thing I really hate about a tige is the name.It makes no sense and isn't even pronounced correctly.I just call it a teeeeeeeeg

Mike,

We listed 9 boats that have a wake-specific hull and a trim plate.........and we're still wrong????

You're looking like a

Is taps just a trimtab? Say it won't so. TAPS is a patented hull adjustment technology made to work in concert withthe patented convex v hull! What a joke. You guys get so upset it is funny. If you say it's just a trimtab then why such a fancy name? Again gimmick. I had nothing bad to say about their boats....but truth is they need ballast. I never said other boats don't use trimtabs I was under the impression that TAPS was so much more. Lol. What a joke.

Didn't Supra have their trim plate out since the 80's?

TAPS (Tige Adjustable Plate System = TAPS) is just a name that Tige has given their wake plate that allows the boat to manipulate the shape (some will argue size) of the wake.

http://www.tige.com/convex.php

Just to be fare I should list a few real tige flaws none of which ever get discused.Remeber now this is based on my older tige and does not reflect on the new boats.
1.When you step into the boat from the swimdeck water drips on the serpetine belt.
2.boat comes with a prop nothing near what should be on it.
3.Teak swim deak is a piece of crap(newer ones are nice)
4.Interior vinyl is garbage,The first thing I did when I bought my boat was send it to have the interior replaced with decent fabric.
5.I also dislike the way they attach the interior to the boat with buttons.

There are several more things I don't like all of which are minor enough for me to overlook and every brand has its flaws including the major three.
I also like how tige has made a effort in the last few years to correct the things people didn't like.

Tigemike,

You just proved my point for me. Thank you so much. Tige claims that TAPS is not a trim plate. My point is (and I will make mine without resorting to name calling) that these boats need ballast, and that Tige's marketing of the boat as a do it all with no ballast needed and safer option is just a lie. If I am an advanced rider, I want ballast. Period. In any boat I am in. All the arguments are just fallacies. Tige's don't weigh that much more than comparable boats. TAPS IS JUST A TRIMPLATE! The convex V hull IS JUST A WAKE SPECIFIC HULL! And all the other 9 boats you named do HAVE BALLAST! And all of them are outstanding boats. Hell Tige's are outstanding boats....but they still need ballast. The question asked was do they need ballast. To tell this guy that they don't would be leading him down the wrong path. Most people will finance their boats and will do so for a considerable amount of time. In 4-5 years most people will progress to the point where ballast comes into play. Boat loans tend to be much longer than 4-5 years. I know you will say it can be added later, but then it will take up storage space. There is nothing that you can do to get around the fact that it is going to need it sooner or later. Again, I think that the marketing campaign is detramental to the first time buyer who is looking to keep their boat for a good while. And you certainly are making yourself look like a winner with the cute pictures.

Again I will say it. I still think that the best wakeboats ever built used hull shape and ballast to make the wakes what they are.

Brock,
1. Who cares about the tower?
2. You are right, just a trimtab.
3. I have owned a Tige and riden in them many times: with ballast, and they were great wakes.
4. Spray pockets weren't that big of a deal to me. I rode in many early Tige's that had em' and when loaded I didn't really notice that much. So, I agree with you on these points.

Then mike agrees with me on everything.

Read the whole thread mike, you have missed so much because you just jumped in and starting posting your usual BS. Everyone stated that they need ballast depending on your abilities and expectations. Why are you so bitter, and continue to post up in every thread, directly and indirectly about Tige, trying to pick a fight, then fall back behind your good old "not hating on them, I used to own one, they are really good boats."?

Now that we have proven your statements and info wrong, you are trying to claim that I should have read your mind and known what model CC you were referring to. As I stated in an earlier post, only the haters keep dwelling on this. Get a life and move on, your BS is not wanted, needed or helpful in any way.

Oh in case you missed the memo, Tige offers ballast just like everyone else, even back when you owned one. You want to talk about funny.........the amount of time and effort you haters spend stirring up BS arguments.

Not calling anyone names, but stating that your BS posts are making you look like a loser. This was actually a good thread till your @$$ showed up and stunk it up $.02

Piece out!

(Message edited by chpthril on January 02, 2009)

hh99, yes they did, I have a friend with one. As for the hydrogate, it doesnt really work like a trim plate. It just closed off or opens a tunnel under the hull to creat lift or drop the back of the boat. its an interesting idea, but its mainly up or down not adjustable like normal plates. Ive talked to some of nautiques pros and they use it mainly for getting up on plane, then they open the gate and the transom drops into the water more creating more displacement. When the pros were giving lessons they used it everytime they pulled someone out.

(Message edited by wakebrdr38 on January 02, 2009)

All wake boats need ballast. Period.

Can Pros land their tricks without it? Yes, mostly. Do they want to? No. PGA Tour players can shoot even par with wallmart clubs. Shooting 65 is their goal.

Buy a boat with ballast Tony, you will be glad you did. I did, and you always want more.

"thats not much different than smoking crack because a crackhead told you it tasted good" hahaha thats one hell of a metaphor brock. Of all the things in the world you used crack as a comparison. Im not making fun either bro I laughed my #$@ off when I read it.

I also have to agree on one good point that ponyh8r has. If you finance a boat whats average? About 10-15 years Id assume. Thats a long time. Obviously from the guys post he wake surfs and boards. More than likely there will definetly come a time when extra weight will be needed and wanted. Normally sooner than later. Now I havent read every single post, but if people on here are influencing this guy to buy a tige and claiming he wont need additional weight is very inaccurate.Especially for what it sounds like he would be using his boat for. Tige definetly stepped it up in recent years. Maybe they're content with the majority of there boats appealing to more of the family/recreational people in our sport.Am I saying they can't be used for more advanced riders, not at all. Im pretty sure anyone that is remotely sponsored by Tige puts a fair amount of weight in the boat. So IMO YES YOU NEED IN FLOOR BALLAST. Tige is a great company, but MAYBE not the one for you Tony.

^^^ That is what is great about the 09 Tige's.. The have an additional 900 lbs of in floor ballast. IMO, if you are going to purchase new and have one designed specifically for you, you might as well add the ballast system in the 09 products. If it's a 2007 or 2008, you would be better off without the ballast and add one yourself when you need to. You can get more weight in them than what the optional ballast did have in the first place.

^^^^ Then please read the posts, because all the Tige owners that have posted in this thread recommended he get ballast.

What good point from tige/pony hater, he hasn't made one in this thread.

If the other brands are as good as they claim, then why do their pro riders add so much weight to. Seems to me then, using this logic, then Tige is on the same level as them $.02

It's a very dead horse that keeps getting dug up and beaten again and again about Tiges dont need ballast.

Piece of pie out! You're the winner. Dummy.

I never said Tige was not first rate or on the level of others. Tigemike and bell are just angry about god knows what. Buy the Tige get the optional ballast and be done (although they don't need ballast it is an option). LOL. How funny.

Brock
I did agree with your points.

I'm not angry. You have had some valid point's Mike. However, you continue to say that we have stated that Tige's don't need ballast. You continue to make this point in this thread and the other one that TallTigeGuy did. So, I am not sure what "high and mighty horse you are riding" but you can get off of it anytime you want.

You are the angry one that cant move on in your boating life. This thread was doing just fine till you showed up!

You are the only one hung up on "tiges dont need ballast" you're the one with issues, that's what's funny

Wow! Everyone gets so excited and opinionated! Now it's not just Tige bashing, it's member bashing too! This is almost as good as watching husbands and wifes load their boats on the weekend! I think it's too bad Tige put out so many boats in the past with poor vinyl and with other issues. I think they get bashed the hardest. I think they make a nice boat. I'm sort of curious, do people bash Centurion as much as Tige? Anyway, if I were buying a Tige, I would at least get ballasts for resale, to have it if I needed it and for surfing.

Centurion gets bashed when brought up, just not as much as it used to. Personally I like the centurion boats. There my second favorite boat. Go figure that 2 of the big 3 are my least favorite...lol.

haha that was pretty good dave. To the original poster, you have your own style. If your truly ever going to get a new boat. Buy what fits. Its not us forkin up the cash its you. So if you like a Tige buy it and shred it. If you like somethin else just do the same.

I saw a lot of member bashing at the end here. But, I am curious why Tige seems to get slammed so much. I started a new thread, so tell us why you don't like Tige or Centurion specifically:
http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3183/656489.html?1231076137.

Tigebell, I just saw the video of the trim tab in the link that you provided up a few. I have not read the whole thread here, but the trim tab and no hook looks good. I have a Centurion with the manual tab, never will get that again. I think if you have the trim tab, get the electric one, not the manual one. Just my .02. BTW, the Tige's look awesome this year as usual!

All tige owners. Your boats do not compare........period.

Good comeback there, huppler. Well thought out, full of intelligent thought and knowledge. Lots of factual info to backup you opinion. Thanks.