Build a Custom Ballast or Purchase Make-A-Wake???

I'm in the process of putting a ballast system in my prostar 190 to fill a fat seat in the back and a fat sack in the bow. I would like to run two reversible pumps, one for each bag so that I can adjust them independently with three way switches on the dash. I'm going to use Jabsco Ballast Puppy pumps if I do not just order the system from make-a-wake. Is it that difficult to wire the two pumps and the switches? I feel that the plumbing will be a piece of cake, but any help or opinions would be appreciated. Let me know what you think. Thanks, Ty.

The jabsco pumps are very easy to wire. I would go ahead and use 8 gauge wire, so they get plenty of juice. They are a little noisy, but work well.
Pump biz has them for $170.00 http://www.pumpbiz.com/products/index.cfm?fuseaction=pump_series&series_id=490
I dont know how much the Make a wake system is, but this way has to be cheaper. If I had to do my system over, I would just T off the engine water input supply. and then T off that for each pump.I would use 1" flexible PVC pipe( it bends where you want it too, and doesnt kink. You can purchase that stuff at Home depot. I bought a roll of 3/4" for $27.00, plus a few fittins. I am guessing about $400.00 for a two pump system like that.You can get the wire at home depot also.or Lowes.

Thanks Mike, do you think that it would be better to use one pump with valves when T-ing off of the raw water intake for a sac and a seat or do you think two pumps wouldn't be too demanding? Also, does anyone have any wiring diagrams for a system similar to this? Thanks, Ty.

I have read a lot of input by guys on here. I have read that you have to idle, and also that you can fill while running. I cant remember who they were( i will try to find them again, unless they come forward with advise) I know you would be o.k. with two pumps, at an idle. and draining would not be a problem because the water will either go into the engine, or out the input.( probably out thru the engine)The Ballast Puppy has a hole diameter of 1/2", and it doesnt fill as quickly as some of the other pumps. I dont think two would be too demanding, ( anyone else ) Your pump comes with a wireing diagram. You will need at least a 20 amp breaker or fuse.
If you have time, go to thread search and type in "Ballast pump" or Jabsco and read what you find. Go back to about 300 days. this should give you good reading on this type of installation.

I have a v-drive '98 CC SuperSport and T off the raw-water intake, then T again to two Simer pumps, one under each rear corner seat cushion, which then goes to a 600lb sac on each side of the engine. I fill and empty with both pumps at the same time at boarding speeds with no problem. The temp guage never budges from 160 degrees.

The ballast puppy is very, very easy to wire. The 3 way switches come with the pumps with the "hard part" of the wiring done. the 6 pins of the switch are already wired with about a 6 inch harness that takes it down to 4 wires. Power (fused), ground, and 2 wires too the pump. Simple diagram included with pump. FYI, I am installinng 3 of these in my boat right now and was concerned with amp draw. Playing with the pumps and about 8 feeet of 1 inch hose making a loop pumping water out of and back into a large sink filled with water, the pump only draws 7.4 amps. Holding your finger over the end of the hose (causing the pump to work harder) raised the amps to about 8. I don't think they will draw more than this under normal operation unless you are trying to stretch your bags (overfill). Hope this helps, plumbing and wiring one of these is really crazy simple and they have very good directions.

If I were to decide to use Simer pumps instead of Jabsco Ballast Puppies is there any way that I could get two of these switches, preferably already wired? I already T-ed into the raw water intake and I'm ready to go. Let me know if the extra price of the Jabsco pumps is really worth it even though I will be mounting the pumps underneath of my observer's seat. Thanks, Ty.

Hey Ty, I think I'm one of those people that Mike Snyder was talking about.

I made a 4 bag system totaling around 1800 lbs running off one Ballast Puppy teed off of my intake. I haven't tried filling it at speed, but from what i hear that's not a problem. My system isn't all that fast, about 15 minutes to fill and empty, but we have two long 6mph zones under bridges on the way to our riding spot so i just flip it on while we're in those. One of these days i'll try it when the boat is cruising, i just haven't had any need to yet.

One plus about the jabsco is that it is a positive displacement pump, so when it empties the bags it sucks them bone dry, no air/nothing, so there is not reason/need to burp them when you refill, eliminating the need for vents (unless you are afraid of bursting them) and when you empty them they are so flat you can fold them up and put them out of the way (if you are using side sacs, they'll fold up into about a 1 ft square x 2 inch "plate" that you can stuff behind your elastics on the sides of the walkways or under the rear seat. I'll take some more pics this weekend and post them on monday.

here's a link to the install

http://forums.wakeboarder.com/viewtopic.php?t=22564&highlight=ballast+system

http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3183/108182.html

and here's a pic of the tee into the r/w hose



(Message edited by tommyadrian5 on May 07, 2004)

I was at a boat show in Feb and there was a guy from Australia selling custom built sacs. Anybody tried these?

Is everyone interested in tapping into the raw water intake because they are concerned about drilling hole(s) or what????? Do you consider it less work, what?? If you already have stock ballast why not tap into that? I guess I would rather drill and not have to mess with the engine coolant system, even though I have not heard of anyone having problems.. thoughts??

Yup, nut up and drill that hole. Its a rush, thats for sure.

i didn't want to drill because i didn't want anything permanent until i knew the system would work, right now if i wanted to I could remove the entire system without trace if i wanted. If i was sure i'd have the boat til it dropped, i wouldn't care, but having either a 2100 lb autoballast sytem tells someone the boat has been used hard (lots of engine strain, regardless of hours), and if you want to take the system out and plug the hole, there's still a useless hole in your boat

cdm-i had no stock ballast system, and honestly, it was less work than drilling a hole through the hull, compared to drilling my perfect pass hole.

The Jabsco Pump (p/n 18220-1123) seems to be the pump of choice. I am considering the same pump in my I/O for a 4 sac system. I am a little concerned about the pump allowing water to siphon back through after it is switched off. Anyone have thoughts on this?

So Tom,

You like tricking people and lieing to them about how hard the boat was really worked. If you ran it with 2100 pounds of ballast, then should the next owner know that. It just sounds deceptive.

no robert, i'm not going to lie to them, but they might not want to have a permanent hole in their hull, much less a huge ballast system running through the boat. Way to contribute to the thread pal, it was very informative and on topic.

Ricky, I put ball valves on each hose to each sac, which i close once they are full, but since the Ballast puppy is a positive displacement pump, it will not allow water to pass through the pump when it is turned off.

Tom,
Thanks for the spec on the pump. What size valves did you use for distribution? Do they restrict flow and where did you get them? My boat has a 1300lb capacity. I plan on loading it right to the limit. Anyone have thoughts on pushing this limit a little?

Someone tell robert that ski boats are made to work hard and fat sacs aren't hurting anything unless you swamp the boat. Unlike cars, boats are designed and intended to be run at WOT (wide open throttle) for extended periods of time. A fat sac's only crime is lowering the fuel economy of the boat while in use... and maybe pissing off a few bass fisherman quietly trolling along the banks. I like to think that a huge wake pushes the fish to them and they should be thankful for the assistance. Sorry I got off the subject.

I had originally had mine hooked up to the water intake for the engine. I tried it a few times but it would suck the water away from the engine. Finally I got the guts and just cut a hole for a dedicated line. Fills much faster now. I got the simmer bw85 for like $70 on-line. Just one, it works extremely well.

Ricky, i used 1" ball valves from home depot, they are industrial grade so they're big, but they work well and will last. I used 1" tees for distribution, and one inch ID, banded vacuum hose for the tubing. Got all that at west marine. The pumps inlet and outlet fittings inner diameters is 3/4 ", so if you have one pump as long as the hose is 3/4" id or greater you are fine. 1" is perfect IMHO, because then any restriction at tees or valves is minimal.

With my system filled to the max i'm pushing about 2100-2200 lbs, well over the boats rated capacity. But the boat handles fine and has plenty of freeboard so it isn't an issue. Also, capacity ratings are created using a formula which really isn't too accurate.

For instance, my boat (Sportstar, same as Prostar 195) has a 300 lb and 3 person higher capacity than my buddies sport nautique, which is wider, and longer, and theoretically should have a higher capacity. The formula isn't really accurate for how much weight each boat can safely take. IMHO weight limits are dependent on the drivers skills.

(Message edited by tommyadrian5 on May 18, 2004)

(Message edited by tommyadrian5 on May 18, 2004)

Tom,

I think your system came out great, I would like to do something similar to that.

How did you run the wires from the pump to the switch? Just wondering because I did not see any wires in the pictures.

How much weight is your 4 bag system? 15 minutes seems very reasonable to fill and empty.

I have no problems with anybody loading up a boat, heck I do it.

I do have a problem with a "street rodder" trying to sell things like they are the little old lady from passadena.

BTW, I was on topic b/c if you are only concerned about resale value, then do a professional job. I would rather a nice well done hole in my boat, than stealing cooling water from my engine. I am not saying that it would hurt anything while idling, but when at speed, my boat will suck some serious water through the line.

I run my boat on land with a hose stuck in a bucket, and a garden hose replenishing that bucket. Whe reved to over 2,000 rpm the garden hose can't keep up even with a good 40-50 psi pressure through a 3/4 hose.

And yes these things are meant to be run a 3/4 throttle, but not under that much load. load and engine speed are not directly related. Load and power expended are directly related.

Richard,

I have almost the identical ballast system as Tom but with smaller sacks that equal about 1,600 lbs. Most direct drive boats have the battery under the spotter seat; therefore, you have to run the wiring from the battery to the Sitch/pump under the floor. I don't know how easy it was for Tom to pull up his floor but mine was a pain in the hind end. The reason I had a difficult time was becuase I had about a 3.5 ft section were I didn't take the floor up, so I had to fish the wires and tubing with a coat hanger.

I would agree on not stealing water from the engine. Lot of people do it, but I'm not convinced it's totally harmless.

Good point on engine load/speed. Though, I would say a boat/motors life has a lot more to do with proper upkeep & maintenance.

ricky, what robert didn't mention is that these boats require barely any cooling water at idle. In fact, they only require enough to lubricate the impeller. Try running the engine on the hose at idle with the faucet just barely open, i guarantee you won't be able to overheat the engine.

Besides, you are not actually stealing water from the enging anyway, you are only increasing the flow of water before the tee in the system, the raw water pump receives the same amount of water regardless of whether the ballast pump is filling or now.

In terms of the wires, in my boat there are 2 tunnels at the front of the hole for the engine, one that runs towards the passenger compartment for the battery wires, and one that runs forward and ends under the dash for the steering cable and other wiring, as well as a vent hose. I ran the pump wires to the switch through the drivers tunnel, and then ran the wires from the switch to the battery through the vent hole in the bulkhead under my walkway (my walkway is elevated) to the battery in the passenger compartment. I also ran my bow sacs fill tube through this tunnel, then through a little space in my bulkhead designed for water to pass through (in case of nose dunk i assume). No drilling or floor removal required, snaking the wires took about 10 minutes.

I have 3 550 lb sacs and one 600 lb sac filling off the system. The 600 doesn't get filled all the way though.