Ankle Problems!!

Alright- I know that over time wear and tear will occur to the old body. But I have a serious ankle problem lately.

It seams that when ever I land a Tantrum short, or take a spill and the board snaps upword against my feet, my ankles just kill.

I've riden for over 10yrs now - so there is probably some good scar tissue or something - but I was wondering if anyone has had a simular problem. And if so, what they did for it. MRI's are seriously expensive.

You've probably injured your talus bone (bruised or chipped a bone). I had the same injury last year and i got it x-rayed, Doc put me in one of those boots for a month and it never really healed. I had a feeling i chipped the bone but never got an MRI for fear i wouldn't be able to board, so I have yet to go.

Do your ankle hurt when you bend at the front? (sort of like a lunge)

Justin-

That is exactly when it hurts. The pain feels like it is occuring on the top of my ankle.

However I am not sure that it feels like a broken bone.
T-B honest this has been occuring for over a couple of years.
I just thought that if I worked out over the winter on them, the muscle around them would get stronger - but it appears that did not work as well as I thought.

Where exactly is the talus bone?

There is also a condition called impingement syndrome where soft tissue can find it's way between the the joint with the Talus bone. I am pretty sure that's what got me after I sprained my ankle pretty bad. i still don't have range of motion and when I dorsiflex (toe up flex) the foot, it hurts there.

It got better with time, but surgery is the only way I know of, they need to remove the tissue.

I did the same thing to my ankles about ten years ago when I was big into wakeboarding. I know you don't want to hear this but they have never been the same. Get yourself some super stiff boots ( almost impossible to do with new gear) and think about taping your ankle or wearing an ankle brace.
Stay away from the tantrum. It isn't worth it.

I have the same problem. I went to a physical therapist and made me special inserts to go in my shoes. He claims that my feet are so flat that I have no arch and thats why my ankle hurts. But I never had bad ankles before I started boarding. But after wearing these inserts I feel 100% better.

05 lf teams and 06 hyperlite 3ds = tall and stiff

Had the same soft tissue problem, skipping rope fixed it. No •••••••••• like magic.

same problem here also. I found that taking
glucosomin(SP) made a big difference. Still experience that pain on hard crashes but not nearly as bad as it use to be. Taping the ankles helped too, but since taking the glucosimin daily i dont need to tape anymore. 2000 mg of liguid glucose a day every day now. takes about 6-8 weeks to start helping, but worth it in the end.

Stop landing the tantrum short. Same thing happens to me on the scarecrow. I've tweeked my ankle a mess of times.

Randy-

See attached pic of the talus. It seems as if it's a pretty common wakeboarding/snowboarding injury. You may not have "broken" the bone necessarily, but you could have definitely chipped it, which is what I did in my case.

It's been occuring over the last couple of years because you've never really corrected it. The more you partake in the sports where it bothers you the more healing time is needed. It took me over 2 months to really start feeling better, where dorsi-flexing (thanks for the word Flux! ) did not bother me. I injured my talus in September '05, then again in October. I went to the Doc in December, got the boot to where for 6-8 weeks but I began snowboarding on my ankle within 4-5 weeks. So I never really let it heal.

It def. is a painful injury. A lot of the times when I step into the boat on a cushin, and the cushion absorbs my weight, as the ankle flexes upward it KILLS me. But it's felt pretty good lately. *crosses fingers*.

I appreciate all the great advise. I know that finding the right boot is basically impossible with the new models. I am currently riding the temets 04's, however I need something a bit stiffer. I am just worried about too-stiff that when I try to get out I hurt the ankels.

I will definetly give these all a try - Except the deporting the tantrum- I get the same effect on crows - rallies- whirlies -and double ups. I dont see myself excluding all of those.

You would think, that with such a common problem in wakeboarding- the manufactorers would build a binding to accomadate for it... but 'closed toe' appearantly is a better marketing tool- later-}

I injured both my ankles two years ago while on a pair of Parks boots. The rubber in them is just too soft and loose and it's easy to smash down on your ankle. Try a pair to Transits. I have been on them for the past two years and I haven't had a recurrence and I am riding harder than I was 2 years ago.

I'll have to show this posting to my boyfriend. Looks like this might be what's been bothering him for quite a few years. Thanks for posting.

He's been riding the 2006 LF Transits and loves them. He couldn't use the Ultra's anymore because it was causing too much strain on his ankles getting in and out of them. So far so good with the Transits, considering he's already got injured ankles.

I THINK I AM HAVING THE SAME PROBLEM. I INJURED MY ANCKLE PLAYING FOOTBALL AND NEVER REALLY ALLOWED IT TO HEAL PROPERLY. I HAD A TEAR IN MY LIGAMENTS AND I THINK THAT IS WHAT MY PROBLEM IS BUT EVERY TIME I LAND HARD ON THE TOE SIDE OF MY BOARD IT BASICALLY ENDS MY RUN. I JUST BOUGHT THE NEW SHANE'S I HOPE THAT SOLVES MY PROBLEM.

OK This scares me how many people have the same issue- I screwed my ankle up last September boarding- took a similar fall to the tantrum fall dscribed above and to date, it's not completely healed. I stretch is a lot and have been to physical therapy, take 2 Ibuprophen daily and while the pain is much less, there's still isolated stiffness and some pain. I am not going to stop boarding, but I may lay off the tantrum- that could be an issue huh?

wowo we could start our own support group for Talus Injuries!

Jacob, CAPS=no no!

Count me in for that support group... wakeboarding+soccer+mountain biking=bad ankles.

WOW!! I did the same thing two weeks ago on a toeside half-cab crash.

add me to the list, changed my mind at the top of the wake, didn't see the rollers and sprained my ankle bad 6 weeks ago...i can ride around for a while, but it is the binding (transits) that hurt for the most part...my ankle's sticky outty thing (is that the talus?) is still swollen and hurts with pressure. going to try my old CD's to see if they put less pressure there, oh well, my surfing is getting a lot better!

(Message edited by siuski on June 28, 2006)

This is awsome -

I did not think this thread would get so much attention.
I knew that my ankle problem was a major bummer to me - but to see how many others have the same problem is amazing.

Since so many people have this problem with their ankles , I was hoping to make a list of bindings that are known to be really good for these ankle problems;
(Remember that stiffness in flex front-to back, although good, can cause more irritation to the ankle when trying to get in and out of )
These are what I have so far
05-06 LF Transits - high support - Medium Flex front to back - Easy entry exit
05 LF Teams-high support - slight Flex front to back - Bad entry exit
06 HL 3DS - High support - slight flex Front to back - bad entry/exit
04-05 Temets - High support - slight flex front to back - medium entry / exit

what are your thought??..

I'll join the talus injury support group too. I guess im in the market for some transits. Hurt it about 3 weeks ago and i'm just now getting comfortable walking around on it.

Randy--not sure the 04-05 Temets are the same.
the 05 have a different exterior, making them a little more stiff I believe. I have 04 Temets and I am looking into trying the LF Watsons.
supposidly have more support and higher lateral support also

I have the O'brien system and they work great for me. They are a pain in the but to get in and out of but once you're in they are great.
I don't know the exact year on them but I think they are 02.
I wear lace up ankle braces on both ankles. They are more of injury prevention now.

I can add to the post as well. I rolled my ankle 10 years ago playing softball. I damaged the talus and evidently did some other damage in the joint as well. I wore a cast and a boot for a couple of months, and it never healed correctly. I had surgery about 6 months after that, and they more or less just cleaned out the joint, scar tissue. It was much better, but it was never the same. Over the last 3 to 4 years it has become progressively worse. After running, wakeboarding, or even golfing I would require large doses of Ibuprofen. So in March of this year I went back to the doctor and had more surgery. They removed cysts, a bone spur, scar tissue, cartilage, and finished it off with something called an OCD drilling. The doctor explained it as where they drill holes in the bones where they removed the cartilage. It is supposed to help the cartilage regrow in those spots. So here we are at the end of June, 4 months from surgery. I still have a noticable limp, and it hurts to wakeboard as well as walk for that matter. It seems to be getting better from month to month, but the healing process has been really slow.

I know this post is long and drawn out, but I thought I'd share my experience.

I truly feel your pain. I had complete ankle reconstruction last year. I tore 3 ligiments in my left ankle. Rehab took almost 9 mos. I am only at 80% at best. If i come up short on a w2w the pounding kills me. Makes me scream like a lil school girl. I take NSAIDS and pain meds every now and then. Good luck!!!

I broke my talis about 3 years ago doing a simple wake to wake jump. I didnt need to have surgery but it was close. The seperation or the crack/gap in the bone was not that large. The injury healed and I was able to to do almost everything with a bit of discomfort if I would twist my ankle into some funky position's I would do balancing exercises to strengthen the ankle. I have re injured my ankle like 3 time's. Each time I re injured it is because I get bucked on a w2w jump and land real funky and my ankle pain flares up. I bought new bindings (06 Murry's) because I was still rideing the orignal bindings I broke my ankle in a pair of (Nice scarecrows) Im begining to think its less about the binding's and more about learning why or what Im doing to get bucked and falling funky.

btw, the glucosimine kevin (aka chino) mentioned makes a really big difference...

however, high doeses are reccomended (about 15k-20k mg a day broken up 3-4 times before meals).... a complex formulation by schiff can be found at costco pretty inexpensivly... if it isnt to far progressed then you "might" notice a improvement in a couple weeks (btw, the original study was in published in the lancet and the doses were even higher if i recall)

btw, if you really, really, really want to improve joint/tissue health...eat healthy, excercise, lose extra weight, and no alchohol (sorry about the last one)

clubmyke - 15-20k mg a day? dang I thought I was doing good and getting 1500 mg/day.

What's your method?

I take 3 Triflex (GNC) tablets a day, which eqals to 1500 mg. It's got Glucosamine chondroitin and MSM.

Add me too!!! I'm out of my wheelchair as of yesterday and now have began rehab on both of my legs/ankles...TALUS ANONYMOUS ha ha HI my name is Chris and i have a problem

thanedog & chris- bummer to hear...msm helps with pain but not healing (i could be wrong but i am pretty sure)...

just take 3-4 1000 mg tablets before meals and let know me know how it goes... costco has a glucosamine complex(no msm) by schiff and it is pretty good and cheap... also knox geletin 3 packets 3-4 times a day also helps out.. dont worry about taking too much..your joint system is pretty unique... i remember going over the original study that in the lancet...it was stopped early because the inital results were so overwhelming... what really stood out was the very, very high doses (typical for intial trials)

most everyone that has tried it (including kevin aka chino) it works pretty well and "should" be noticeable within a couple of weeks

(Message edited by clubmyke on June 29, 2006)

I'm going to get some Glucosamine this week- it's worth a try I am boarding EVERY day for the next week!!!!!!

First off -
This thread rocks - I hope everyone is getting something out of it.
Second - Frank, I feel for you. However, I am not sure how many times I could go under the knife, but good luck with your rehabilitation.
Third - I have been a GNC Triflex fan too ( 3 a day). However this is the first I have heard of how mg/ per day is really sufficient. It sounds like 15-20K mg a day-spread out. Holy crap thats alot.
Is that correct? Also I never heard of knox geletin?

I buy the liquid form from SAM's club.
It has all 4 in it.
Glucose, Collagen, MSN, and Condrointin(sp)
$20.00 a bottle.. cheap enough

my name is Jon, i too have a problem with my ankle.


oops, thought it was AA

Kevin - You get your 15k mg from that liquid? I'll have to look into it.

Thanks Kevin and Mike.

Thane--the bottle I get has 2,000 mg of Glucosomine. I think Mike uses the pill form and just takes enough doses to get up to 15k-20k a day. The stuff I take Is 2 oz. once a day.
granted its only 2k, but I have been taken 2 doses a day to put me at 4k aday. Been taking it for over a year now. Great stuff.

Here is what happens when under rotate a tantrum, fracture your talus and wait 6 years. This is what they cut off my bone last month.

No amount of glucosime and strength training could have fixed me, believe me I tried. I am about 50 days out of surgery and gaining flexibility every day. I am even going for 5's off the double up and not wearing my ankle brace. On the downside I did stretch some ligaments in the knee in my other leg from favoring that side, but I get to look like a "real" wakeboarder wearing my $1300 custom knee brace. I love being a 31 year old wakeboarder.

What the H#LL is that???

is that a strawberry?

Bone and calcium deposits from being fractured for over 6 years. Inches are on the left, it was actually a bit smaller than one inch. Go to a good Dr. for xrays and a CT scan. Forget the foot and ankle specialist and the podiatrists, they don't know jack. I saw 3 of them over the years. The 4th doc knew right away what was wrong with me, its actually called "snowboarders injury". Its when your toes come up too far towards your shin(dorsiflection) and your talus breaks or fractures. Not fun. If anyone is interested I can give my doc a call and try to help you guys find good doctors in your area.

Melvinator -

I hope thats bone and calcium deposits and not a Hemorrhoid!

Thanks for the insight - I have had this problem for at least 6-yrs
(since 99 when I was learning my raley on some prototype liquid force binding. Basically if you wanted a binding that will never let go of your foot, those were your ticket. However, when crashing my ankles were stretched and twitched every which way)

I am guessing this was the root of the problem. Anyhow- I have gone to some foot / ankle specialists over the years but they never fix the problem. This is the first deceit explanation I've heard in 6 yrs.

However, I will still grab some glucosamine for now – Wait for surgery (if that’s the case) until after the season. Some good doctor contacts in STL MO would be great.

Hi, I am a relatively new rider (i suck) Anyway, most of the time I bite it hard and i fall towards the boat, my healside grabs the water, i get ripped out of my bindings and my ankle gets torqued. It took about a month to get better. I did the same thing again just last week. It really seems like a sprain to me. It may not be the same type on injury you guys are talking about but I need help. I snow ski and it seems to me that if I had a more supportive/stiffer binding, I'd be in better shape. I'm doing more watching than boarding Any suggestions or advice?

(Message edited by firemedic on July 02, 2006)

Hmmm, Count me in???

Are you guys tighting up your bindings so you don't come out when you crash? Both times when I have injured my ankle, that foot got pulled out of my bindings.

Matthew, how long did it take to heel after your surgery and more important how long before you could go wakeboarding? I'm have a bunch of bone removed from my left ankle next monday.

I'm in too. I can't count the number of sessions that have been ended in frustration with an excruciating ankle after "getting bucked and landing funky" as Grant said. If I land on the toeside edge of my board while my momentum is traveling backwards (short on tantrum or just getting turned wrong in the air), I can count on the ankle getting worked.

It both sucks and is cool that I'm not the only one dealing with this.

Well mark it has been 2 months and I am not 100% healed yet. It took six years to get this way and will take time to get back to 100%. I went surfing about 10 days after surgery as you can see here http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65919/329233.html
I would not reccomend anyone do this I was drying out and had to get on the water! I was wakeboarding and doing all my normal stuff after about a month, raleys, 3's and a bunch of inverts. I took it easy about 3 weeks out of surgery and skated and did alot of winching and hitting rails. The doc said this is a VERY common snowboarder and wakeboarder injury.