Tried EVERYTHING with the backroll (vid)

Hey Guys... I feel bad posting about this.. since I'm sure theres every tip out there imaginable somewhere on the web... but here it is again...

I need help with my Backroll..

So i started throwing my backrolls about 4 months ago with a strong body position with a tall, very progressive, short cut. I learned to load and release out in the flats in a tall position with my back straight, legs stiff and hips pushed up towards the sky... handle low...
I would drift towards the wake, wait till the white wash load and release at the wake... i took a vid of myself and the roll looks real smooth... but I never get any height so i never make it around.... (i accidently delted the vid) what i dont understand is how am I supposed to stand tall and pop when I'm leaning against the line when im standing tall already with my hips pushed up already? My back is slightly arched when I load the line and so I would have to let off edge so im not leaning away from the boat so much to stand taller but that kills my load and then I eat it...

so I decided to try and throw my roll from a seated load position... heres what became of it...

http://www.3dchad.com/download/John/CIMG0932.mov

I know the vid isnt the greatest and I know im doing these things wrong in the vid...

my handle is at my chest... theres no sign of a progressive edge... my cut is starting out too far... and im throwing it a bit early... the line tension is gone once in the air... and it just looks ugly overall...

but the point is... i am getting enough height... Ive tried cleaning all these things up... but the line goes slack in the air and i really feel like im working too hard for the roll instead of when i was in a standing tall position... Im seriously getting to a mental block at this point not know whether to go back to a strong tall position with a good looking rotation and not getting any pop, or trying to clean up the seated position load.

really if I can get some help learning how to pop off the wake from a standing tall load i could land it for sure...

please help... thanks guys/gals...

Oh and one more thing... when I load the line and "wait" for the pop in a standing tall position... I pop... and then the load on the line just takes me raley because I didnt release the load over my shoulder at the wake...

I posted this is "trick Tips' but didnt get a whole lot of help... any love on this would be appreciated...

You are getting plenty high. Looks to me like you just need to spot your landing more, then you would stick it. Take a shorter faster cut at the wake, Once you through the roll, right after your head breaks the 1/2 way point in the rotation you should be able to spot your landing. The nice thing about a backroll is how long you can look at the landing, By spotting your landing it will slow down yor rotation making it so you can actually ride it out. If you cant see your landing at all chances are your eyes are closed. As for the rope slacking that appears to only be happening because you are tossing the hanle. On my boat I would'nt come pick you up if you kept that up.

As for the trick going raley, make sure that you push the board and your lead hip away from the boat, that will give you the correct rotation.

sorry I am not spell checking this.

Good Luck

(Message edited by andy nintzel on October 29, 2007)

Looks to me like you and the boat are both going too fast. Other than that, you're doing everything right, but it seems like your momentum is going across the wake too much and not upward enough. You might try slowing down the boat (if that will give you a bigger wake) and then try starting your cut closer to the wake, but cut so you have more line tension (are more loaded up) and less speed when you leave the wake. Line tension is more important than wake size. Also, even though it might not get you any style points, you can try tucking a bit to speed up your rotation, if you need to.

Here's me behind a 21' Malibu Sunsetter, unweighted... notice I tuck a bit to adjust my rotation speed:


And here's me behind a 17 foot bayliner, unweighted... notice my extreme load factor, and increased tuck.

thanks guys... that helps a lot... I'll try it out and post a new vid...

try it out and post a NEW VID OF YOU LANDING IT!!!

haha build your confidence up too! I know that it sounds stupid but confidence is half of the trick!!!

Check out my instructional video, it might help, I posted it up today...Good Luck!! Email me if I can help!

Backroll

I'm not an expert, but it looked like you may need to pull and hold on a little harder with your lead hand. My attempts looked similar to yours and that's what worked for me...hope it helps.

andy, you mention something i need to ask about. at the end of this season i began attempting backrolls and tantrums. on both, it seemed like i was only making about 3/4 of the rotation, but i know i am closing my eyes. do you have any tips on how to make sure you keep your eyes open? even after i was aware that i was doing it (eye closing), i still kept trying both tricks. i figured i would eventually get more comfortable with the rotations and begin opening my eyes. any tips here would be much appreciated.

2 hands baby! 2 hands

I'm not the greatest at it but it looks like to me you didn't have enough line tension...if you have enough usually all it takes is looking over your lead shoulder...

The way you pop from standing tall is by not letting the board drift out behind you. Notice in the video how hard you are edging and how the board flies out behind you. You just need to cruise slowly into the wake to build momentum and as you ride up the wake build a hard edge and push off the top. The roll will complete itself at that point.

2 hands for sure. You are letting go with the back hand way too early. You should only be letting go of the handle to slow your rotation. You are charging it a little too hard. You don't need such a monster cut as long as you get good pop.

Bocephus, classic video! Your nickname should be Timex! "Takes a licking but keeps on ticking."

2 hands and keep that handle LOW, you are way up near your chest, keep it oriented to the waist/hips and you'll have it for sure!

It looked like you had your board a little too flat too. You can take less of a cut and still be able to complete the rotation. If you are more on edge, your rotation will be much quicker. Also, if you keep the handle close to your lead hip, you will rotate around faster. As you come around, if you feel like you are going to over rotate, let the handle out and it will slow you down. Keep this in mind next time:
1) keep on edge ALL the way through the top of the wake and don't throw the move, let the wake throw the board once at the top. Pretend the wake never ends and keeps going up, thats where you want your board to go.
2) If you are on edge correctly at the top of the wake, your board will pop up and around, keep the handle in close to your left hip and and look over your left shoulder.
3) as you come around, let your arms out to slow down as needed.

Good luck.

no tips on how to keep your eyes open? anybody?

i talked to one of my buddies today and he said he has been landing tantrums and backrolls with his eyes closed for a while. anybody else like this?

all my tantrum attempts are 'eyes shut'! I even landed one once I try so hard to open them, and sometimes now i get a glimpse of really fuzzy water, so i think they're starting to open just a tiny bit.

i have no idea how to get over it. i'd appreciate any good ideas as well!

Great vid really enjoyed it

bump.

still no tips on how to keep your eyes open on inverts?

how many people land (or begin landing) their inverts with eyes closed?

i ahve been trying backrolls for a while only thing that helped me keep my eyes open was just getting used the rotation to the point where i wasn't scared anymore. Up till the first time i felt the board slipout on the water i would keep my eyes closed now i keep them open because i wanna stick the landing

that is kinda how i assumed (hoped)it would be, i just wanted to see anybody else did the same thing.

Alan, try this. Get on a trampoline and do your normal backflips, rolls etc. Then start focusing on the horizon while you do them. Then get a buddy to toss you a nerf ball while you are upside down. This will force you to look while you rotate. Lastly, go back out behind the boat and focus on looking around. You could even write "EYES OPEN" on the nose of your board as a reminder.

that sounds great. i am working on that trampoline access, but don't have it yet. maybe before next summer though.