best wakeboard helmet to buy!

"He has done some real impact testing from waterski's, so the data should also apply to wakeboarding"

Wayne, real data would be great, but I think we would need wakeboarding data. I skied for a long time before picking up wakeboarding and the impacts are FAR more severe than anything I ever experienced on a ski. Impact angles are totally different.

And thanks tom, I'll be looking into those earflaps as spring rolls around. Wayne, I'll be eagerly waiting for the helmet release. 2-way sounds cool.....no more hand gestures to get my driver to do what I want (there is always something lost in the translation). Can we be playing the mp3 and have the 2-way override it?

i have definative impact data and my girlfriend can tell you all about the hospital visit and the scar on her head!!

Ryan, after being involved with the drafts of many helmet standards, the biggest issues are speed of impact, and material being impacted. Angles of entry do not have much bearing on dissipating energy, but do on injuries. An example might be an equestrian helmet where top speeds are not that great, but high from ground vs. a bull riding helmet where speeds are much less, but being thrown can exceed that of equestrian impact. So, a bull riding helmet must be far more protective than a standard equestrian helmet even though kicking and trampling impacts are fairly close. In conclusion, water impact data given at different speeds (as I mentioned previously) should be relative for any sport on the water.....you just have to determine the speed of impact. After the impact energy questions are answered and liner cross wall thickness are done, then coverage, strapping system, buckle requirements, etc., all come into designing for specific sport.

Designing a small 2-way system that can be used in the water, hands free was a real task! Once we determined what size would be best, we tried to include an MP3 player. The PCBA (printed circuit board assembly) for an MP3 player is very small and could be included fairly easily, but when we tried to place the controls with the 2-way everyone got confused. Also many users asked to use our units with gloves on, this made the buttons further apart design issues even more restrictive. In the end, we gave our focus groups a choice of designs and options, they chose separate MP3 and 2-way boxes. This also kept prices down for those who just wanted just the 2-way or MP3. But, the good news is they can be piggy backed and used together! And yes, the design is for an auto cutoff when you send or receive any signal via the 2-way.

Wayne, I hope you don't think I'm doubting your credibility (because that could not be further from the truth). Its refreshing to have a discussion with someone who actually has real knowledge on the subject (vs opinion). What I meant about impact angles is the increased acceleration of a rider catching an edge. Your right, this would simply add to the "speed of impact" and I'm sure you've already taken it into account.

Again, the 2-way sounds really cool. I'm sure it'll be a hit w/coaches and camps as well as the rec rider like me. You guys really have thought of everything. Do you have any preliminary pricing your care to divulge? or maybe a ballpark figure?

This was one of the better helmet threads. I have always thought that current helmets have no use in wakeboarding when just open water riding (except some minimal ear protection). None of these arguments for helmets make any sense. People are missing the fact that water is a liquid and it has different properties than a solid, which all of these helmets have been designed for hitting.

Wayne has made some great comments though. Hopefully his design has truly looked into what would protect a head from wakeboarding type falls into water. Until a product like this comes out, I won't be tricked into buying one by the marketing machine nor from misinformation from people on this website. Great work Wayne keep it up.

If it makes you feel more confident riding then put one on, I won't tease you. I personally choose to just deal with my fears rationally. I gave up my bottle and security blanket years ago.

(Message edited by jonm on February 17, 2006)

Ryan, noooo problem, I was just trying to state everything clearly and to the fact. On the opinion side: I do not agree with the water is different as an impacting surface, helmets add mass and therefore increase friction in water, etc., etc., blah, blah, blah! If I have learned one thing about energy, its energy is energy and it does not make any difference where or how it comes! Granted water at slow speeds can absorb part of the energy created from a fall, but your brain still only sees energy! We have all been slapped against the water hard enough to realize it can feel the same as cement.

I also never commented on the bucketing of helmets. Bucketing has become a major problem with personal watercraft helmet wearers who use a motocross style design. The rear neck is very wide so the full-face helmet can be taken off and on. When falling off your jetski backwards, especially at higher speed, the rear helmet neck lip can catch water, what we call bucketing. When the helmet buckets at higher speeds, snap goes the neck! Since most skate/wake style helmets out there have an open face, the rear neck opening/gap is usually not very large. In our new helmet we created a neoprene neck piece that hugs the rear neck, this should help prevent those rare cases when bucketing could happen.

Prices are coming, sorry I cannot quote them at this time. I am doing my best to keep prices as low as possible, but at the same time, we are building the absolute best products that can be made today!

Jonathan, glad I was able to bring some good input to this thread.

As you will note in my response to Ryan, I do not agree that water impacts create different energy. Although you are right water/liquid is different from a solid surface, any impact creates energy. The real question is how much energy is being created, and at what speed?

Number one injury to the head for wakeboarders is lacerations! If you don't want to wear a helmet to reduce head trauma from an impact, then wear one to prevent 70 stitches in your head.

I guess the major difference I see between the properties of a liquid and a solid are as follows.

The less surface area you have hitting the water the better (belly flop vs dive). The smaller the surface area the less energy is transmitted to the object hitting it.

It is different for a solid object. The same amount of energy is transmitted no matter how big the surface area. The bigger the surface area, the more this energy is distributed out. Picture a wrestler hitting the mat and trying to distribute the energy out by hitting with his arms back and feet all at the same time.

These are simple, known facts and I don't know how people can dispute them.

Yes, the greater the surface area, the greater the ability to dissipate surface energy. Our helmet is 1/2 inch thick, how will this small increased surface area matter vs. all the other benefits of wearing a helmet?

Trying to consolidate all the variables of a helmet surface area (size, smooth, holes, etc.) vs. a head (hair, size of head, shape of head, etc.) would offer many results. Also, trying to compare a belly flop with a dive, is way different from a head vs. a head with a helmet on it!

My point is, impacting the water with your head vs. with a helmet on should create almost the same impact energy. But, in the case of a helmet it will dissipate most of the energy created from the impact. Energy is energy! Yes, slamming your head against the cement will create different energy that impacting the water at 20 mph, but its still energy!

Another good example is what we found out years ago about the early bicycle helmets. The early Giro helmets had a Lycra cover, many other just had exposed EPS. Not through lab testing, but from actual injuries we found that an exposed EPS helmet actually would stick to the pavement vs. a helmet with a hard shell would slide. Overnight everyone went to a vacuum formed shells to help prevent the injuries beings caused from helmets sticking vs. sliding. Maybe a wakeboarders head will slide across the water surface therefore preventing even more injuries? Just kidding....;-)

but maybe wearing a helmet breaks up the impact energy..like indy cars are designed they are made to splinter the energy into pieces..maybe wearing a helmet somewhat disapates the energy through breaking up the waters surface

jonathan...why can't you just come on this thread and be thankful you learned something instead of insulting people

wayne, I so appreciate your input into a much needed discussion. I can tell your comments and responses have taken considerable time and thought to respond to this thread. Thank you so much.

SoCal, your welcome, and feel free to ask me any questions on protection you may have. I wanted to take the time and address questions in detail vs. the normal one or two liners. There is way too much smoke and mirrors going on out there! I am trying to walk the walk developing sport specific protection for a sport that has had to accept hand me downs from other sports.

The Pro-Tec are top notch. The Ace Wake has a special cranium fit that holds the helmet in place and also has ear flaps that prevent the dreaded ear drum injury. They are light wieght and most of all....comfortable.

http://bakesonline.com/detail.aspx?ID=230

Zack
www.BakesOnline.com
http://stores.ebay.com/Bakes-Online
www.WakeboardNorthwest.com

I wasn't trying to insult anyone mob. I was trying to make a point similar to Wayne. That unless the helmet is designed for wakeboarding type accidents, it may be of minimal use. And also to thank Wayne for his knowledgeable comments. Good on Wayne for making us all safer.

The other point I was trying to make was that the other psychological arguments for wearing a helmet were not enough to persuade me into wearing one. I am apologize if you took offense to it.

Wayne, I agree that a helmet 1/2 inch thick helmet that is designed to pierce through the water would be of great benefit. The small increase in surface area is truly negligible. I haven't yet seen one like this. And putting one of those large foam cowboy hats on my head will be of no benefit so I choose to go without until there is a product that makes sense to me.

Jon...no worries...it's all good and just a matter of preference

Zack, the Pro-Tec helmets offer good protection. If you review their web site you will see the Ace also sold for skate and snow. Even though they do change out part of the liner system, I wouldn't call this a sport specific design?

Jonathan, no offense taken from my side and I appreciate your interest in helmet safety.

This summer give one of our Pulse helmets a try. If you can't find one to try out, drop me an e-mail and I will loan you one to try.