speed and line lingth 26 mph at 80 vs 70 at 23

Ed just made a good point on another post. Of wake size further out.

I have been fighting the longer line for two about years now.

This is for me it might not be for you so hit the Squid in the head again for another crazy post. Or I am just way off.

26mph at 80= plus is more hang time. In my mind the down side is more line tension on spins, harder falls also you need more weight to make the wake bigger at a faster speed. Lots of fuel burnt and more ware and tear on the boat.

23 at 70= plus is less line tension for spins, not as much weight needed to make a bigger wake. Falls aren't as bad. Not as much fuel burnt and less ware and tear on the boat. Minus not as much hang time.

Why do you think that there is more line tension with a longer rope?

Longer rope lets to go further into the flats, and you need the extra weight to make the wake good that far back.

J-rod to me every time I get out to 75 and further seems like I have a harder time passing the handle and there is more tension. I have also got this from a few other people I have ridden with. But you do need to cut harder at 80 than 70 to get across to wake. It could be me and its just a mind game.

(Message edited by twakess on December 08, 2005)

I have been able to ride at 80' and still right around 23-24, won't the increased speed be needed to clean up a wake washing over??? or you just like the increased speed. Longer line should mean more height and more distance. I think, just looking at it as if it were a triangle..

maybe it isn't the rope.

squid, i'm not by any means rippin' on you. you know that i think you're one of norcal's sickest riders. but, i've never heard anyone say that there's more line tension w/ a longer rope. in fact, a few years ago, i was riding w/ buffalow and having problems w/ my hs 3s. he said, "dude, you're running out of rope!" i thought, "wtf is he talking about???" he was saying that there's so much tension in the rope that i couldn't advance myself or pull the handle enough to get the handle pass. i was riding 70' (including the handle) at the time. so, he took me out to 80'. very next hs3, i stuck it. in fact, i stuck a few that day...more than i ever have in one day's riding!

in all honesty, and you know i got nuthin' but love for you, but you're way too analytical. that's not what wakeboarding is supposed to be. ride at what's comfortable for you and just have fun.

Joe, your right. Its like I hit just a wall this 2 last seasons. Boards rope lenghts I can't get it together. Just frustrated so I figured go back to square one. Get the board I was killing it stay one it for a full season (hard as heck for me to do). 1 you just helped me by saying stop thinking. 2 Stay on one board.

26 mph are you nuts? Dang that is fast and I am known to ride fast. 75' 24 mph behind a lightly weighted super and 80 if it is heavy then bump to 24.2 Works for me. If I can start on my HS edge 4 ft from the trough of the wake and easily clear then it is all good. If I am going to struggle clearing the wake it is usually switch TS.

Squid, sounds like you need some more training from a pro that can help you progress

I always thought 75 is the minimum and starting point for wakeboarders about the initial learning curve. I would never want to ride any shorter the 75. 80 is fun unless your learning inverts.

I kind of thought it was tougher to hold that handle in at longer lines......hhmmmm I don't know why but I'm with you on that one squid but what do I know,I suck.

Oops Paul you are right...I ride at 80 and sometimes 85, never 75.

just my .02

but seems to me riding longer line and a little faster is nonsense (unless you want to ride at that speed) going faster just narrows the wake. it is much easier to ride controlled on a shorter line. however, line length to me, depends on who's boat i'm behind.

I sometimes have the itch to complain about line tension myself squid....but I think in my case its due to higher speed rather than longer rope.

Line lengths and speeds greatly depend on the boat and boat speed.

I ride at 70' with the handle on our LSV and that usually feels like between 75' and 80' behind a VLX...judging by wake width that is.

I think you should worry more about the speed you ride and stick with that. I ride at 24.5-25mph, it doesn't matter what boat I am on. The rope lenght will definitely change from boat to boat. On my supersport nautique I ride at 80 feet plus the handle. On my friends Moomba Mob-v I ride at 75 plus the handle and on an 06 vlx I ride at 70 plus the handle.
I do like being farther away from the boat it does seem like I have more time and it is easier to take smoother cuts at longer lengths. I haven't noticed anything regarding the tension. It seems the same to me no matter what length.
I have a wake to wake style. I typically like to take a really short cut on my inverts and spins so I can take them up and down the otherside of the wake. My body can't handle landing in the flats to often.

(Message edited by sbt3 on December 09, 2005)

Hmmm...like Joe said...I find that I "Run out of rope" on big jumps into the flats on a shorter line. When I added 5-10 ft, it seemed like I had more recovery time upon landing and it doesn't jerk me over the top of the board when the slack from being in the air is gone. As for clearing the wake on a longer line. I notice almost no difference. Maybe subconsciously I cut harder? Or, maybe the extra length just creates more line tension? But, I don't feel like I do anything different and I clear just as easily at 80 as I did at 75 or 70?

i ride 85 at 26mph

behind your boat? Have you checked your speedo against a gps?

I am with stan. There is a speed I like to ride at and I keep that constant (definately slower than 26). I vary the line length between boats to hit the fat part of the wake at my speed. Not sure on the line length but usually 1 or 2 off your standard wakeboard rope.

Just for clarification. If you have a standard wakeboard rope and handle, and you are riding on the end loop, how many feet are you at?

i used to ride at 84.5 and 25 miles and hour behind a natique with like 2000 pounds of lead and stock ballest and i am still flying into the flats and the wake is huge. if you riding at 80 feet you should be riding about 25 or 24.7 pending on what boat.

Hmmmm..... 85 and 26 is too much speed (if that's right). The wake would end up being pretty narrow. Maybe 85' and 25mph, or 80' and 24mph, or 75' and 23.5mph. Those are the rope/speed combos that seem to work for our crew. It's all subjective and what works for you. On a longer rope you have a longer pendulum to swing from and build more speed with the same cut. I don't really find myself cutting much harder at 80' than I do at 75'. I don't think I'd go much shorter than 75' on a properly weighted boat (I rode 70' once last year behind a weighted Centurion D-drive). I do notice that during the winter I go in to 75' (maybe just in my head, maybe because we usually have less people in the boat, whatever). I do notice that on a longer rope I cut for longer (not harder) toward the wake.

Whatever Squid... It's all in your head. Now I've been known to be wrong before, but I'd go to 75' and keep that Absolute Platinum for a full season. Don't mess with anything and see how your riding progresses.

I was riding 90' at around 25.5 I think my boys would know my speed better then I would. I now ride 80' at around 23.5. My riding Has cleaned up and I am going bigger (up not out) then ever before. I personally will not go in more then 80' but I think that the speed was hurting me more then it was helping me at 90'.

Squid--- how many times do we have to tell you, Stop thinkin and just ride.

Andy--- I've seen pics of your riding and if your are truly going 26mph. I couldn't imaging how much bigger you would go if you slowed that boat down and actually let the wake form.

x-star big wake! Boat Fast, edge fast. heres a pic. and I am counting the handle as 5 feet.

75' at 23.5 behind Evan's boat. The wake is sick!!!! With my Tige I go 24 at 80ft with 1500 lbs and TAPS at 4 or 5 is just right. For me differnt boats= rope and speed changes.

Andy, I think your speedo might be off bro. You're riding three feet longer than me a 2 mph faster?

Allen, you ride at 24.2-24.4 and that is according to GPS. Our speedos are dead on.

Andy by looking at that wake my educated guess is you arn't going 26 mph. That wake looks to lipy.
Al

looks slow.

guys remmember Andy puts like 4g's in his 205v. You would have to go that fast to keep the wake clean.

your slow. hahhahaha. My speedo my be off by 1mph put no more than that. And yes we have check it on a gps. Have you all forgotten about Randy Harris' set-up. Ant bug is 100% correct we do put 4g's in the Star. Just look at how wide the wake is. Peace!

-Nintzel

ps there are some more wake pics on the O'brien website, under the team section, just click on my name.

(Message edited by andy nintzel on December 09, 2005)

actually the pics on the Obrien site are cropped now that I lool at them, you cannot really see the wake, but they are still dope. I will post some pics from a chase boat where you can see line length latter.

1 mph off is pretty much exactly what I would guess. I would put that wake at around 25-25.5

Not hatin' Andy.... The only boats I ride behind are dumped X2's. We don't normally ride with 4k in them (only aout 2.5-3k), but we've had that much weight in J-Rod's boat before, probably more when you figure 10 guys and the normal 2500lbs of ballast (remeber that one time we almost sunk your boat J-rod. Ha, ha, ha... We had to drain ballast to turn around and pick Allen up).

Anyway, peace out.... This shizo makes me wanna ride.

I ride 190 ft line at 59 miles an hour with 9000lbs of ballast. I find that the wake at this speed with that amount of ballast= death.