WaveSkate

Ok, I'm going to have a go at creating a wakeskate style wake surfer I'm calling a "Waveskate". I've never done anything like this before but even if its a complete failure I'm sure the process will be fun.

Plywood construction
Totally Symmetrical
Bottom contours like a wakeboard
Finless
Basic dimensions 1.4mtr x 520mm wide.
3x10mm layers laminated
Continuous rocker but not sure on amount of rocker required, any suggestions?

I'll post photos as I go along.

Cool concept. Have you thought about just nose flip, so it basically become a 3 stage rocker. Jon is going that direction in his twin tip details here.

The old Trick Boardz used this construction methodology, they had a SERIOUS full length concave - maybe 5/8" depth and the rocker seemed continuous and wasn't much, maybe 3/4".

If I remember correctlly, Trick Boardz built their old style boards UP - so it was ply wood, but they hand laid each individual piece on to the press so they actually made the plywood as the board was being built.

Looking forward to your build and the pictures.

Ok, made a start, built the jig. Decided to go 3 stage rocker. 1" total & a mild full length concave 1/3"

Nutted out a shape and getting ready to cut the rest of the layers

Cool looking tool! I'm having trouble figuring out the concave though - I can see the bits attached to the lateral supports, but won't those create a convex bottom and a concave deck?

How are you going to hold the boards down to the tool? It seems like if you want a three stage rocker that you would need more than one support in the middle, otherwise it is going to give you more of a continuous rocker with the nose and tail flared up?? Are you going to clamp the wood down to give it the shape you want?

Nice tool though. Can't wait to see the results!!

Ha, ha I am a goof. I got my concave and convex mixed up . I don't think I can make concave work with the contoured bottom layers I am thinking of. Whats the advantage of concave over flat?

Yes cross supports to hold the board down, I guess it will end up being a hybrid rocker more than 3 stage but I'm happy with that to start out.

LOL - I've done stuff like that a bazillion times. I thought maybe you had something that was going in between the plywood bits that would shape the concave.

'Caves have tons of conflicting theory, let me tell you my take. A flat bottom is supposedly the fastest bottom in trim and in the largest variety of "waves" - choppy, crappy, etc.

Some theorize that a concave adds surface area, but run a tape measure across a board with a 3/8" concave and there is maybe 1/2" extra width...which is something stupid like an increase in surface area of 1%. Now they DO straighten the effective rocker out - the height of the concave then becomes the effective rocker going straight, and the rail line still has curve, to allow quicker turns...so a nicely shaped concave can yield a board that has MORE rocker, for tighter turns, while still generating speed while flat by presenting a flatter rocker when you're going straight.

Personally, I find that squirt or acceleration can be enhanced when pumping, but not while in trim. I can "feel" the water being forced through the smaller section of the concave towards the tail...but...it's not a closed system like a pipe where you can calculate how much faster the water has to travel as it goes through smaller pipes/holes...it just feels as if there is more acceleration. Sometimes, that level of subjectivity is just "nothing" but hype.

I'm not good enough to really turn all that hard, so mostly I'm sliding the tail, or just turning "some". My son James can use the increased rocker, however. Also the plan shape affects turning ability also. LOTS of stuff that interacts.

For the most part, I think that flat bottoms are probably adequate for the vast majority of folks. All things being equal, a 'cave that straightens out the rocker can produce a faster board going straight.

Sheesh - was I at all helpful?

Yes very helpful. Now moving to convex....I presume convex allows the board to spin easier because the rails are out of the water when the board is horizontal to the wake, But would slow the board down when running straight because it effectively adds rocker? I've got an idea for a "venturi tunnel" type bottom shape which in conjunction with no fins will help with straight speed I think. Fun fun fun.

A displacement hull is the convex bottom. They are very stable rail-to-rail and turns feel smooth, not twictchy or grabby. I don't know that I've ever seen one in a shortboard or something as small as our wakesurfers...I think they're most commonly found on longboards and guns shaped for monster waves. I don't know how it would affect spinning - like I mentioned, I've always thought of them on 10 foot long boards. If I had to guess, and this is STRICTLY a guess, is that the rails being HIGHER than the center of the board would cause it to rotate laterally as the board came around. I'd be interested to see how it actually works if you decide to persue that shape.

Love the finless venturi, you need to build that! I think it was Rusty that had the finless concept contest and some of those boards are so wild. BUILD IT BUILD IT BUILD IT!

Darren ,
put a .250 round wood stock in the center of your jig then bend the rails down to get your cave, this is what i do on a flat board core to get a small cave.

or what ever size that get you your cave

Thanks for the tips guys. I will go concave at the tips convex in the center.

I've cut the last two layers. Venturi tail for the base and stomp pad cut outs for the top. Looking at it I think I made the venturi's a bit long and they might might catch the water in the front one. Oh well, guess I'll find out. My epoxy is at the batch so I'll laminate the layers early next week.

Sorry Noob question. I have both epoxy glue (Gel like) and epoxy resin (liquid) which should I be using for the laminating?

That's interesting. Will you shape the edges of the venturi cut outs or leave them at right angles?

You're referring to laminating the ply's together, right? Wood will soak up epoxy, which is good for getting a solid bond, not so good for spreading. The gel tends to be more gap filling and doesn't soak into porous surfaces as readily as the less viscous liquid. I prefer the gel for wood glue-ups...however for laminating fiberglass to a substrate you'll want the lower viscosity liquid.

What will you use for clamping pressure?

I'm very interested to see how this turns out. Ralph, what are your plans for fins? I'm assuming a single large wakeboard fin on both sides.

I was going to leave them at right angles to give the board a bit more "bite" but open to suggestions.

I am planning to screw down planks width ways to clamp.

Hate, the plan is no fins but I will put 4 "fin bases" which will give some tracking. If its not enough I can put 4 fins on the board at any stage.

wow nice experiment

That shape looks vaguely familiar, did you trace the Watson?

I was going to leave them at right angles to give the board a bit more "bite" but open to suggestions.

I not familar with how the V will interact in the tail. The reverse orientation would tend to force water into the progressively restrictive space, the turbulance tends to loosen the board up, so...in theory the reverse should be true, or at least it seems that way. It'll be interesting to see what you experience when you ride it.

Ok, got my board laminating. I revised to jig to get my vex and cave right.... Here are the pics.









I'm off to Ausy for a week to hit the cable park, I'll unload it when I get back. Then the final shape up with the bench sander before mounting fin bases, liquid epoxy and water test I guess. Planning to paint it white with black stomp pads to finish.

(Message edited by Ralph on October 02, 2009)

That's sweet. Hey Darren, when you pop it out, can you share with us a few pictures of the transition from the 'cave at the tail thru the 'vex at the middle. That must be a piece of art as it smoothly transitions from inny to outy!

Sure thing. Not sure how much vex I'm going to get in the middle, the centre brace was down hard but there is still a little gap underneath in the centre. How much "spring back" will I get when it comes out the mold?

Thanks!

I'm not an expert in e.wood. Maybe we can get Show to chime in. However, I know when you glue up at least 3 layers of anything, it gets very stiff and tends to retain whatever shape it's glued in. I'd bet you don't get much "spring back". It'll be interesting to see.

There was almost zero spring back so I guess the lamination process worked well. The shape looks pretty cool in the flesh, quite happy. I'll make the fin bases during the week and glue them in place, then I'll give it a shape and clean up with the bench sander. One thing I didn't consider is the weight, @ 15pounds it certainly has some mass, not sure if this will change its riding characteristics or not.

I do love the curve from the 'vex to the 'cave. That's a fun build.

Where the heck are the inch marks on the ruler? Looks like a fun project, good job.

Those are inches, I just got massive hands....

Darren , are you on the clock

Quick update: I gave the board a power plane on the edges to smooth it up and coated the whole thing in liquid epoxy to seal it up. I'll test it out this weekend to see if its any good before finishing it off.

Pics of the maiden voyage, please!

Well it wasn't a massive success but good enough to try again. First gimp move is the board is 5mm to fat to fit in my board rack . The board itself is pretty fun to ride, when its not on edge it wanders around, sometimes you slide down the wake with the board horozontal to the face but if you drive it like a wake board it is pretty easy to keep tracking straight. On the down side it is too small for me, it feels like it is only just above the water. It is fast tho, when you carve it it rockets forward. I'll make a new thinner one with 50mm more width and 100mm more length.

Great pics! Congratulations on that first ride!

Darren, can you feel if the v's cut in the tail have an effect? I thought they would give you some directionaly stability.

COOL!

Its hard to know Jeff, without filling them in and re-riding I couldn't say for sure. Once I got the hang of it, it felt good to me as far as trackability was concerned but the financial controller was having trouble getting to grips with it. I will make the next one the same but add a single small removable wakeboard fin in the tunnel for the boss.

Or you could get an asylum Boardz
formerly Trick Boardz but now fiberglass covered foam core and weighs less than 5 pounds (a little over 2 Kg)

Check out Asylums website they have some neat videos. The board keeps riding even if you really sink the nose bad. I am still thinking about getting one.

Do you have the web address for the site with the videos? I am having trouble finding it! Thanks, Jon T

Never Mind I found it from Larry's Profile. The boards look fun to ride!!

Classic trojan horse spam by Larry, nice work.

Yeah how dare he

Better flame him