Tige Answers Malibu On Water Challenge

^^^ hay, don't forget that checklist while you are at it.

For some reason, I love reading these posts.
They are some dumb, but so awesome.
Sort of like beer bonging. It is so wrong, but so right...

I meant "so dumb"

at least bonging beer makes you feel good. this thread make ya want to shoot yourself..

hahaha yeah waisting my money when i pay cost on it.

When someone says the wake is not firm they are simply confusing the ramp with some magical mythical boat ability to make water harder.
Most of the time its the older cc guys saying it because a cc has a ramp like a skate park and when confronted with a smooth transition to the top they feel like there getting shorted something.

actually you can harden up water. Not in the normal way like it actually gets hard but with the amount of volume behind the wake. Ask any surfer. Since its a tige thread ill use a tige wake as an example. I rode behind a tige that had what looked to be a great wake until you hit it. It just mooshed out and you would go through the wake instead of up it. This was without ballast, so they added weight up front and from what i hear the problem is solved. That simple. Some hulls dont make a wake with volume behind it while others do. CC wakes are known as firm and steep without much tweaking. Bu's are firm and rampier. Others like that tige can compete too, they just need a lot more tweaking, and its not even a big deal.

I think peoples pride gets in the way a lot. The guy with the tige swore up and down it wasnt soft and that he got all the pop he needed. I gave him a ride behind my 2001 and he complained that the wake was too hard and had to much pop (can you believe that?) He said its like hitting a concrete ramp. I said thats the point. Happend to run into him the other day and he was all pumped because he said you were right i needed weight up front and now i get so much more pop. Its a pride thing and i dont think tiges marketing helps that out. But i think they are making some sweet boats though for sure

^^^
To add onto Kevin's post and being a Tige owner. Too often the TAPS is put onto 8 thinking that it's the best for the wake. Unfortunately, that is not always the case. Lowering the TAPS number can create a harder wake since that lowers the bow.

Personally, I have my RZ2 at 4-5 on the TAPS, 22 MPH, and 5-7 people in the boat. Seems to be just as firm as the F21 Tomcat or MB B-52 with ballast.

I can assure you pride has nothing to do with the purchase of a fifty thousand dollar hunk of fiberglass I can only use half a year.
I am more interested in people taking things for what they really are.
For instance the fact that cc has a huge ramp and a ruff landing doesn't mean its a bad boat.I can't even ride behind one for fear of injury but still the boat has its place and its owner.Just because something is different from what your used to doesn't mean its bad.Just means its different.
Tige is often singled out and picked to death when the reality is they have no more or less flaws than any other brand.
In the area and group we ski in there are several makes and models avaliable and every one has its strong side and weak.
My boat is the home for everybodys surfboard and if there is more than a few people we end up taking the tige because it is huge.
When we sneak out of work during the week and there is only a few we take my buddies old xstar.
Another buddie has a malibu but it often gets passed up because it eats gas.
all great boats.I feel lucky just to have one.

I have only read a few of the post in this thread, but it seems to me that a lot of manufacturers are putting tabs on there boats. They call them different names, but it is still a tab. Just my .02.

Tige makes a nice boat, but they're making a copy cat, trying to chase the Big 3 and charging way too much money. Their boat isn't there yet and doesn't command the prices dealers charge. Some of you will say that "they are there" in quality and wakes. Regardless, I'd say they're too pricey to compete effectively with the Big 3. If Tige tried to gain market share by bringing their price down with Sanger in the $45k range (even if they could), then Sanger (at least in CA) or Moomba would beat their pants off. I'd say Tige is stuck in a bad market position; too expensive so many people buy the Big 3 or they go into a more affordable boat like a Sanger, Centurion or Moomba. That is Tige's biggest problem.

In regard to Tige's latest marketing, that 'Tige takes on Malibu's Challenge', Malibu was asking the competition to bring their boat out and do a side-by-side with each potential customer. That means it's a challenge to dealers, not a one-shot manufacturer-to-manufacturer challenge, i.e. Tige dealers not Tige Boat manufacturing. Maybe Tige's "reply" should have been "Tige Dealers have taken up the Challenge and will meet Malibu Dealers side-by-side on the water and show customers The Truth ... that Tige is better". Do I have to do their marketing? SOMEONE ELSE: what happened ... did you fall asleep here or take a Prozac?

So, uh, when is the first challenge going down? I would like to see the format, judging, categories, etc. This should be good.

Dave,

Tige's used to be down there in price. And they marketed as such. People bashed them about the quality of materials and such. So, they stepped it up, started putting a higher grade of vinyl, carpet, more bling, etc. That came with a higher price tag. People still griped, but never about the price.

So now they use the same vinyl as BU, lotssss more bling, arguably the best optional factory stereo on the market. But all that costs more money. So now the vinyl and such are the same, the sturdiest tower on the market (counting the Illusion as the same here), and the boats are still about 10K-15K less than a similarly equipped model from the big 3 depending on your dealer. Now people are griping about the price. It's a never ending revolving door.

Either use cheaper materials and bring the cost down. Or use upgraded materials and charge more.

This topic has everything that makes Wakeworld great!

To the guy that says the wedge being ripped off is a "red herring", well, I'm here to tell you, I've personally seen a wedge ripped off and destroyed on a snag. (Didn't rip the transom off though.)

i'm tired.

As far as I know, Tige dealers order direct from Tige, and the only added cost is transportation, witch the shipping cost p/boat drops with every unit added to the truck.

I heard that Tige is still contracted with their old distributor from when they first started and that adds 10% to the dealer cost. What does that get the consumer? Nothing except a higher price. Ok, so they have a Bu tower, new graphics and nicer vinyl. Does that now mean I should buy a Tige 22Ve for 58k instead of a VLX for $54k? In my area Tige was running 10-15k more than a Sanger 215. I think customers do gripe about Tige's price and that's why they often go with the Big 3 or a less expensive boat like a Sanger, Centurion or Moomba. My point was that Tige's stuck in a bad market position and unless all of the sudden they become the "in" boat (unlikely because of their high price) they will continue to struggle with market share. One rule in marketing is that you need to be best, unique or cheapest. Tige is none of those and that's a problem.

Tige may use the same vinyl (not sure), but it certainly isn't put together the same way as a Malibu. I'm not saying it's a bad boat...but it's not the same. Look at the stitching and you'll see what I'm talking about.

^^^ I've looked at them all, I'm glad my Tige was not put together like a Malibu $.02

100...keep goin

Yup the shiatt is getting deep in here.

Dave,

Your expert status in this thread is wearing thin. As a Tige dealer I buy my boats directly from Tige just like all dealers in North America. You are full of marketing advice, some of it very good in theory but I would like to add my .02 worth. Boats are very regional and much of the success in any given territory is based on the stability of dealers in their representation of the brands they sell. Believing in a brand and working hard to sell it, stock it, and service it, builds local brand awareness, recognition and loyalty. Do this for a few years with almost any towboat brand and all things being equal, the outcome is predictable and successful in viable towboat markets. Sanger has not achieved this in my area, nor has CC. Hence one of the cheapest is not selling boats here in any volume and neither is one of the "big three". Selling Tige against these brands does not even require any mc style brand bashing in my shop. Lifetime Replacement Hull Warranty, TAPS (whether you believe it works or not), in-floor ballast, solid construction (no carpeted seat boxes as Greg noted when he said "it certainly isn't put together the same way as a Malibu"), PCM Power, Wetsounds amps and speakers, just to name a few make Tige a strong contender for a towboat buyer's dollars in my market. Dave sees Tige as a weak player in his area. I see a business opportunity for someone as Tige is a brand that will make it through the current tough times and be there when sales pick up again.

I tried hard not to get sucked back into this thread but could not help myself. Sorry for encouraging this further.

Well, JK

Sanger has achieved what you are hinting at in my area, so IMHO Sanger vs Tige - always a SANGER!

And just because the retailer "believes in a brand" doesn't mean the consumer should...

And I don't hate Tiges. I just LOVE SANGERS! They don't claim crap that isn't true like tige seems too.......

BTW - Is that a Malibu in your profile?

Sorry - did I just contribute to this thread also? MYBAD

JK,

I have noticed the regional thing for sure. I have always wondered about how the market for Tige is in their own backyard. Maybe you can shed some light on this. I know that the top CC dealers in the nation are in Texas (Buxton, great peeps by the way) as well as Sail and Ski. MC has their top dealers in Texas MC and Texas Ski Ranch, both in Texas. How does Tige fare in sales in these markets. I would think that their top dealers are in the state of Texas as well. Is this true? Additionally, you would hope that they would be gaining market in the state they are made in. Is there any truth to my thinking?

(Message edited by ponyh8r on February 03, 2009)

I dont know if where a boat is manufactured is a good measure of sales in that area means anything. Correct Crafts are built in fla. they have been out sold by MC for years, in fla. infact i beleive they were third in sales behind Malibu, MC .

Ok Tige owners and resellers give up. Tige sucks, the wake sucks, the interior sucks, the build quality sucks, everything breaks, and they are over priced why would anyone want the junk boats. Sell the factory to BU,MC, or to yugo. Thread is over and locked please!!! WTF!!!!!! wake world sucks.

Tampa, you are not helping your position. Seems like a few are having frank factual/ percieved positions and are open to dialoge. I think it is a good thing to watch and maybe learn what people think about the brand and then maybe move your discussions and demostrations to counter their fears. Don't many companies pay a crap load of money for that type of info through market research? What I hear you saying it when you say wake world sucks, is I don't want open discussion about my product and I want to keep my head in the sand about peoples thoughts about said product. At least that is what I hear. I would rather hear it vs trying to sell to people and guess why they are not buying it. I heard something that may be huge benefit on this thread. Many chimed in that they think the wake is soft. Then I heard someone chime in that maybe they were running the TAPS in the wrong position. Maybe people will give tige a different chance now with a little insight. I heard someone talk about how a SAN wake about kills them (paraphrasing). What I hear is someone likes to charge the wake with speed instead of using a short cut with lots of edge. Just different strokes for different folks. Point is, don't look at all feed back as a hate fest and stay positive.

I don't get hurt when people talk down or point out the negative aspects of MC. I have heard a million times how the X-star requires a bagillion pounds before the wake is great. I don't get upset because I realize it is true. Every brand has good a bad points. I think a lot of people take what people say as a negative rather than just as a critique. Oh well.

Mike: exactly. Centurion, Sanger and Bu all do well in their own backyard. A manufacturer should (in theory) do well in their area where they're located; they should have more market awareness, loyalty, exposure and so on. Tige did better in CA when they were located in Merced. JK: I never claimed to be any kind of expert. You might want to further check your facts with your Tige Rep. From what I understand, Tige still has a binding contract with KK from when Tige first started and Fineline built their boats. Why do you think many dealers have to deal with an office in Merced when Tige is located in TX? Tige has to pay KK for every boat they sell. That's prior to selling it to the dealer and you don't even know it. That's one reason Tige has a higher wholesale price.

I mostly agree with what you're saying about hard work and building a business. Tige does well in some geographical areas. Ah. I see from your profile that you're in Canada. It's a different world up there. No wonder you don't see much from Sanger or CC. I know Canadian dealers don't usually have a lot of local competition like in the States or CA. Besides, hard work, investing in a brand and promoting a product diligently doesn't always mean you will succeed or that it will work with that product. Anyway, try to open a Tige dealership in CA. I've seen many established dealers that worked hard, marketed the boat and spent a lot of money promoting it in CA. They couldn't make Tige work. I have said all along that I think Tige makes a good boat. I hope you can build their brand in Canada and make lots of $$$. My point was that Tige is stuck in a tough pricing and market position.

I think the issue here is too many people bash a brand and haven't rode behind one or even had the opportunity to ride behind one. It's winter and everyone doesn't have anything else to do right now so they spend their time on WW seeing what pot they can stir and ruffle feathers. $.02

Hey Dave-

Just for your ‘facts’ …we do not have a contract with KK, and yes two of our first employees decided not to move their families to Texas and too work out of Merced. If you have ever been to Merced....I could see how (in theory) thats hard to believe... lol but they wanted to stay

The new tig'es are so nice i rode behind on last fall and they are deffinatly one of my favoite's even if they copyed

hahahaha, i think you just lost a lot of credibility lifetime... that is not a malibu...

^^^Nope as hard as it tries it just can't be a Malibu.

I know - I was joking. I actually really like that Tige - I also really liked the (still do) Malibu with the illusion. To me it is one of the coolest ever looking boats.

Wow it's midnight and I cant believe I read this entire thread, I guess since the owner of Tige's son chimed in I figured I might as well. being from the merced area myself I can definately say this is malibu country at all the lakes, heck my family owns four of them, but as for me I've always made decisions for myself, based on what works for me and my family. I did take the on the water challenge, on my lake, the one i've been in malibu's for the past 20 years from the 89' euro sunsetter to the wakesetter vlx and I ended up with the tige 22ve' and I proudly drive and ride behind it next to all the bu's. malibu's are a great boat no doubt about it. I just bought what worked for me, I hope you all did the same!

Malibu's drink way too much gas.Kind of like dropping anchor and going wakeboarding.If I was going to compare Tige to another boat I would say it's best competitor would be Sanger.

^^^Probably the dumbest statement I've ever heard on a boating forum.... Nice brock.

Truth hurts doesn't it bu bu.I know first hand because we ride one every now and again.Unless you can think of another reason a 21 foot boat would use more fuel than my sacked out 24.
Handles funny too.

I see this has once again deteriorated into Tige bashing. Jeff: nice Tige. Malibu's "Challenge" is a call for competitors' dealers to do a side-by-side, not a challenge to manufacturers. I think Tige stating that they're taking up the Malibu "Challenge" is just empty propaganda. Maybe Tige should market that their dealers are taking on the "Challenge". Years ago Tige used to offer cash to customers if they did a bona fide demo and still bought a competitor's boat. Maybe Tige should put their money where their mouth is and offer that again.

Ben Pigeon: my "facts" came from one of your dealers. A few years ago one of your Reps told him that Tige still had a contract with KK from Tige's beginning and they had to pay KK for each boat built. That was the dealer's explanation for why Tige came in several thousand more (about 8%) than "comparable" boats at the wholesale level, why there was an office in Merced and why Tige couldn't be more price competitive with their dealer pricing. I don't know that I believe your answer or explanation; I'm sure you wouldn't want the public and dealers to know they're paying a distributor thousands for nothing.

Brock I own a Malibu and I don't go through gas any faster then any other V8 out there. Maybe you and your friends drive differently then most, I don't know.

What model Malibu is this that your friend have?

Your Tige boat is it a wakeboard boat? Or do you just Wakeboard behind it? I could understand why it is so good on Fuel.

My buddy Mike had a Tige' with a tower on it and he thought it was a wakeboard boat until he started wakeboarding behind my VLX and now he owns a Malibu VLX. He also use to waterski, which he doesn't any more.

It is simple, you buy what you like. If you don't like Malibu boats then stick with your Tige'. You can save gas and since you have brought that up a couple time it is important to you. You can enjoy yourself by sitting in your Tige' by the gas pump at the marina and point and laugh at the wakeboard boats getting gas.

please let this thread die....

I guess you might have to ask all the riders at the Tige Pro Am including Rusty Malinoski, Aaron Rathy, Andrew Adkison if they were just behind some boat with a tower or a wakeboat. What a joke I don't even own one and you sound ridiculous. Some boats are much better on gas than others and it has nothing to do if its a "wakeboat" or not. Also depends on the engine in your boat. The hull and engine make a huge difference. These threads should die quick. Funny how MC,especially BU owners have to get in on these. If Tige is a crap boat shut up and let it go if it is they will go out of business. Funny BU owner it was not really that long ago MC and CC owners said BU was made of crap and not a real wake boat. I agree Will and am sorry lets let it DIE.

Boy am I glad I own a Calabria, cuz if I didn't I'd have to waste so much time slapfightin' online .....

Are any of you guys gettin married soon?

^^^ hahahaha

Did that 1 week ago.

Agreed with closing this down. It has ran it's course and there are some good things to come from it. Tige gets bashed more than any other as previously stated. But again, Tige decided to take Bu up on it's challenge. I find that impressive enough that they did. Don't understand why the other companies haven't.

On another hand, we are arguing about this and keeping Bu and Tige in the spotlight. Great advertising for both IMO.

(Message edited by dabell on February 09, 2009)