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Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       05-08-2019, 11:13 AM Reply   
Anyone have one?
I decided to jump into the Electric Bicycle pool.
I bought this thing off C-List for $300. They normally sell for $1000-$1500. I know little to nothing about E bikes and have to trouble shoot it and get it going. I have no Idea whatís broken or needs fixing I thought for $300 I couldnít get to hurt.

This has a twist throttle just like a motorcycle and Doesnít require you to peddle, but it does shift and have gears like a normal bike. Itís got a Hub centric motor and the 18650 battery pack is tucked inside the bikes frame. It says it can go 20 miles at 20 Mph? And it has a rear rack with the ability to slide a extra range pack on the back for 40 miles
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Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Texas       05-08-2019, 12:25 PM Reply   
Nice. I was flying around town on these Ford Gobikes for a month since I've been back - pretty awesome. But then a couple weeks ago they pulled all the electric ones due to some braking issues people were experiencing. Hope they get it sorted - great for getting around town and up the crazy hills here.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       05-08-2019, 12:49 PM Reply   
Just bought this Magnum Metro within the last month. Now I got the bug and want to get a mountain bike. Trying to decide whether to build or buy. For a street bike a hub drive is fine. For a mountain bike you want a center drive where the motor mounts to the lower bracket (at the crank). Hub drives can't use the gearing, but center drives can. So if you are climbing a center drive motor is really needed. I think that hydraulic disk is a good idea to have on a mountain bike, but guessing mech on a street bike is fine.

That's a great deal! UltraMotor A2B Metro, 500W 36V, mech disk. There is nothing there that can be so bad to undo that. I saw one on eBay used for $1750. $2700 original price.
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Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       05-08-2019, 12:52 PM Reply   
On mine the throttle is speed limited to 20mph. The pedal assist speed limit can be overridden so that it's still helping you while pedaling up to IIRC 28mpg.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       05-08-2019, 2:40 PM Reply   
Fly Cool: This bikeís planned use was for the wife to bike to work, (5 Miles away). The A2B Metro. Seems to be one of the early bikes with out all the electronic nannyís. Thatís a advantage of building your own bike. I saw the BOSCH and the Yamaha E-Mountain bikes and even took one for a ride they are super cool. Because this bike is gonna be locked to a public bike rack I didnít wanna spend 4-5k on a super cool carbon bike just wanted somthing to get started with and learn somthing in the process, my gut tells me the controller in the Hub motor is blown, Bummer for me is the Gem cars Iím used to working with give you a error code that points you in a direction. Iím looking for some sort of Electronics diagnosis software or programmer like what I use on the Gem cars.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       05-08-2019, 2:46 PM Reply   
In my experience the hub motor bikes are a bit naff, the hub is pretty jerky when they engage and can scare the crap out of inexperienced riders when they snap into assist mode, tend to be a bit limited in performance and the twist throttle can get people in to trouble if they freak out. I much prefer the pedal assist type which are much easier to control and more like riding a bike rather than a motorbike or scooter. The new E-Mountain bikes like Trek Powerfly or Giant E-Trance are amazing and soooooo much fun to ride.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       05-09-2019, 2:46 AM Reply   
Ralph: Good advice, I have Never ridden a Hub bike, I have only a ridden a Frame mounted Bosch motor bike. But Iím not to worried about the wife she could ride all of my Dirt bikes with no problem as well as my GSRX1000. My early research is pointing to the rear hub motor as my problem. Turns out these early versions had the electronic speed controller (ESC) mounted in the hub and they would overheat. Newer versions moved the ESC into the frame, looks like people upgrade these bikes from 36v to 48 volts. And from 500watts to as much as 2000 watts. This is gonna be fun!!!
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       05-09-2019, 2:53 AM Reply   
I believe his A2B has pedal assist. Worst case you can buy a conversion kit w/ hub motor ($200-$250) and controller, and lace it up to the current rims. The battery is a big question mark being in the frame. Probably needs replacement. A web search reveals a lot of posts about people repairing these. But conversion kits are so cheap I would be inclined to replace instead of repair.

Quite frankly I don't find the engagement of the motor scary, but yeah when someone gets on the bike for the first time they should start at pedal assist zero then raise it when they start. After that it become pretty natural. Having to use a throttle all the time would ruin the whole experience. And if he gets a conversion kit, then it will be totally up to date WRT having pedal assist settings.

I only rode a center drive on a fat tire bike for a short time, and didn't really get a feel for how much more natural they feel. But the center drive IMO is a must for a mountain bike, if you plan to hit trails with ups and downs. The Magnum Metro (paid $1680 at local shop) I got had an equivalent mountain bike (same price, same specs, same hub drive, same hydraulic disk), but would have needed a rack and fenders added on so I opted for the Metro. Also knowing that if I wanted to get into mountain biking with an eBike I would want a more expensive center drive model.

Just for reference a center drive conversion is about $750-$900 vs hub $200-$250. Batteries extra.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       05-09-2019, 12:41 PM Reply   
Well Its looking like the Stock battery is Junk, I found a guy that Makes New replacement battery's with more Amp Hrs and Power, Here is a Pic of the Factory Replacement Battery, $399 Delivered.

This bike uses 20 18650 Samsung Battery's (Same as Tesla) but in a 36 volt configuration
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Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       05-09-2019, 1:33 PM Reply   
Can you rebuild the pack yourself? That would be a lot cheaper. Are you sure it's only 20, not 40? That pack looks like it would hold 2 wide. And most battery packs are 11-13AH vs 6AH, which 20 of those batteries would provide.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       05-09-2019, 2:43 PM Reply   
Yes Iím sure but we can do the math together & lean things
Each 18650 battery is 3.7 volts. 3.7volts X 10 is 37volts the bike is a 36 volt bike. So itís 2 sets of 10 tied together to make a total of 20 batteryís Now @
4.1volts (thatís Full) = 41volts & 3.5 volts (Thatís Empty) = 35 volts.
And your right I could get 20 Samsung 18650 Batteryís for $159 off Amazon and rebuild my stock pack I would have to build a tab welder to weld the batteryís tabs together ďno big dealĒ OR I could give this good fella $399 and get a new rebuilt battery in exchange and then I have made a friend, and hopefully could get some insider info & tips for other problems & or issues that are bound to pop up and I need technical advice. The difference is $249 well worth the price of admission IMO but what do I know
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Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       05-10-2019, 1:10 AM Reply

Still surprised it's only 20 batteries and not 40.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       05-10-2019, 1:46 AM Reply   
Fly your right that it’s 40 Cells 20 Cells on each side if you count the bumps on the pack in the photo it’s 20 and I know for Sure it’s double stacked side by side so that’s 40 Cells . So that would be 4 sets of 10 18650’s all running Parallel. So that makes buying a pre made pack even more worth it. If it’s $150 for 20 18650’s then it’s $300 for 40, if the guy is selling it for $399 then that’s a deal. And thanks for the link on the battery welder that thing is cool. Most people I have seen use a car battery and a solenoid with a switch and 2 copper nails attached to Leeds coming from
The battery as a spot welder
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       05-10-2019, 1:59 AM Reply   
LOL I didn’t even get this bike going and I already found the one I want next LOL
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       05-10-2019, 4:21 AM Reply   
You got the bug, just like me. I've been watching youtube videos like crazy. The building looks as fun as the riding.

40 of these 20 amp batteries would be $200. Plus the welder and supplies would add another $100-$150, which gets you close to $400. There are cheaper batteries, but not sure how reliable. If you go with 10amp batteries you can get 3500mAh instead of 3000mAh.

Check this video out. He's got links to everything.

Does it look easy to get that battery pack open? And when the guy quoted the price, did he know it was 40 batteries?
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       05-10-2019, 4:28 AM Reply   
I brought the pack to the lake house (where my evil underground workshop is located) I will open her up it should not be a big deal to rebuild. But I would not consider going with any other Battery other than the Samsung 18650’s. Are use them in all my high-powered hi draw flashlights and they work great
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       05-10-2019, 5:44 AM Reply   
Super cheap. Not as much Ah, but higher max current @ 25A... $152 for 40. And you still have a 10Ah pack.

Even cheaper 15A, but get a 12Ah pack. 15A doesn't leave you much headroom for a 500W motor. 500/36 = 13.9A.

Last edited by fly135; 05-10-2019 at 5:48 AM.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       05-10-2019, 6:38 AM Reply   
Here it is taken apart. Kinda cool how the 18650ís are stacked in the Battery case like a AR-15 holds. 223
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Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       05-10-2019, 6:40 AM Reply   
It has a BMS as well. I think I will still just buy a new rebuilt pack. I have so many to do projects this can wait till I go 48 Volts.
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Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       05-10-2019, 8:13 AM Reply   
I'm sensing a new love connection forming here...
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       05-10-2019, 8:15 AM Reply   
Ralph and Wes tried to nudge their way in, but there's no gettin in between true love.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       05-10-2019, 1:56 PM Reply   
Mark itís all Good. Fly, had some good advice and links (respect) I appreciated his contributions
He obviously needs a Upgrade. Wes well he is rent a bike and toss it to the curb guy
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       05-14-2019, 7:19 AM Reply   
Well The good News is the Battery is Fine. Showing 38volts I'm doing a capacity test on it now. Ill get the battery back in the bike and track down the issue. Most likely a relay or a open switch, Looks like it may be a much cheaper fix then I had thought, Brake switches and Relays are common source of problems not letting the bike power up. Its funny cause with the Gem cars 9 out of 10 times its a battery issue, This is the First electrical project I have come across where the battery is not the issue
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       05-14-2019, 7:55 AM Reply   
Good luck. You might be back to that controller in the hub problem. Brake switch should be an easy test.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       05-14-2019, 11:40 AM Reply   
Stoped in and test drove a TREK commuter 8 and got some basic info.
Class 1 bikes = pedal assist and go 20 MPH 250 watts of power
Class 2 bikes = twist throttle NO pedal assist.
Class 3 bikes = pedal assist 28 Mph 350 watts of power.

This bike had the BOSCH motor and battery, it’s Super fun and fast. It’s totally cheating as far as riding a bike, but it’s hella fun! I’m not getting one I just wanted to see what they had “kick some tires”

This bike was $5,100+ tax

P.S the bike stores Hard sell was “Buy now Tariffs Are coming” they said bikes would jump 10-25%
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Last edited by grant_west; 05-14-2019 at 11:43 AM.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       05-14-2019, 12:18 PM Reply   
Trek name and center drive do increase cost. You want pedal assist and throttle. Mine's 500 watt and has both. The throttle is great when you want to cross the street in traffic or need to get off the line quick. Pedal assist takes a rotation of the crank to get it going. I wouldn't pay $5K for that bike.

I didn't know about classes, but fed law restricts the bikes motor to 20mph. So if you pedal above 20 the motor stops assisting. Or at least that how I think it works. I got the password to unlock the setting and removed the 20mph limit on pedal assist. But it didn't have a way to disable on the throttle. However I don't really care to use the throttle that way, so not a big deal.

Mine is $2000 online. The local shop "Crazy Lennys" sold me mine for $1680 + tax. I can go 24mph while pedaling without much effort. I think that 28mph number comes from the unlocked settings. IIRC that's what mine allowed as the max. So above 28 it's all you. Not an issue because that's plenty fast.

I really can see how I would get $5K of joy out of that Trek. For way less than 5K you could build a 1500 watt center drive rocket. The trick is finding the computer that supports no limits. I haven't really looked into that.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       05-15-2019, 2:09 AM Reply   
The sales person said all mountain bikes we class 2 bikes he said somethimg about a 15mph speed limit on local trails and thatís why MTB bikes were all class 2 bikes.

Quite the price jump from a 20 Mph class 2 To a 28 Mph class 3 bike Example the same TREK in a class 2 is 2 k cheeper thatís right you get a 100 watt smaller motor and a step down in shifting.
TREK Super Commuter 8= $5100
TREK Super Commuter 7= $3100
BTW the bike weighed 60+ pounds.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       05-15-2019, 3:22 AM Reply   
My bike weights about 60 lbs. That's pretty standard for electric bikes. I think the sales person is giving you a line. Probably the same one he was fed. Like I said, 20mph is the limit no matter how much motor you stick in there. You then override the legal limit. Being CA you probably have state laws like the 15mph on the trails. The mountain bike version of my bike is exactly like mine. Same 20mph limit that can be overridden in the password protected settings to 28mph.

In my research the Rad Rover at $1500 is a very popular bike. Fat tire, 750 watt hub drive, free shipping. I was thinking about getting one, but I decided to buy mine local and go for a full blown mountain bike later. No need to pay a $1000 for a few extra watts.

When I got my bike I visited the shop late in the day on Sunday close to closing. The kid showing me the bikes didn't really know his s**t. I questioned him about the advantages of center drive, and he said something about it being more natural to bike riding. I mentioned that you would need center drive to take advantage of the gears when climbing steep trails and he just had a blank look and said he thought the hub drive would be fine.

Last edited by fly135; 05-15-2019 at 3:25 AM.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       05-15-2019, 3:32 AM Reply   
About the only downside I'm seeing of my bike is the step thru design has the girl bike look. But Orlando just got flooded with Lime electric rental bikes. They are all step thru, so it's not that big a deal. But that was about the only thing that the Magnum Peak (mountain bike) had over the Magnum Metro. And since the Metro already had fenders, rack, and light I went with it. A bit mixed on the gummy tire look.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       05-15-2019, 4:54 AM Reply   
^^ I see what your saying. Everyone’s idea of what looks good is different. Your bikes #1 purpose was built for comfort & ease of use, I don’t think style was a big Priority. I can see your bike fitting in Perfect for a ride around the hood or to the store or along the beach. And when your riding it it pretty much doesn’t matter what it looks like as long as your having fun. I hope I don’t get bit by the E bike bug. I just wanted a project to play with I hope this bike doesn't lead to another addictive hobby
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       05-16-2019, 9:26 AM Reply   
Ok so making Progress

1. Battery has 38 volts
2. Front & Rear Brake switches are working
3. key Switch is working
4. Battery to Hub motor connections clean and de Oxidized.

So at this point I THINK itís either the (Hub Motor is blown) up OR I had a simple Motor to Controller Bad Connection. Fingers crossed it was just a bad corroded connection, people are saying if the Hub motor was bad they create extra drag and the wheel tends not to spin very well. My wheel seems to spin ok.
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Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       05-16-2019, 10:25 AM Reply   
So what's next? Do you have to split the hub open?
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       05-16-2019, 11:20 AM Reply   
I would not Split the hub I would just buy a new rear wheel. I have found some new wheels with rim and tire for $100
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       05-16-2019, 11:51 AM Reply   
Yeah, I wouldn't split either except maybe to scope it out. $100 is a good deal.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       05-17-2019, 12:47 PM Reply   
So I was able to do a ďLoad TestĒ on the battery & it came out real good. I used a 1500 Watt 110volt Water heater element to put a draw on the battery. It worked out to be a 4.5 Amp draw at 150 watts at 36 Volts. The motor is 350 watts so I figured 150 watts is like 1/2 throttle. In the 5 min load test I put on it the battery only dropped 1/2 volt.
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Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       05-17-2019, 12:51 PM Reply   
So my fingers are crossed. That I’m gonna bring this battery back home and plug it in and “Magic”. It’s gonna work. And that the reason it was dead when I bought it was because of a oxidized connection. “Some times lighting strikes” and electrical stuff is that easy. 50% of the time it is. So my guess is it Works when I plug her in OR, The rear wheel motor is dead, and just needs a new one. I guess my odds are 50/50 at this point.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       05-19-2019, 2:08 AM Reply   
And the results are........
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       05-19-2019, 6:33 AM Reply   
Sorry no update: I got some serious ďFirst World Person ProblemsĒ. Bike is at House #1 Battery is at House #2, & I had to do some other electronic chores Redo & Update the underwater lights on the Boat, yea I got it bad!
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Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       05-20-2019, 7:45 AM Reply   
Ok Back home Battery Plugged in Still No good news. The Switching unit located under the bottom bracket is working I can hear a relay clicking ON when the battery is plugged in and the key is turned on So that's great, I have 37 volts at the rear hub when the key is turned on, So that's great, More and More im wanting it to be a Rear Hub Motor. I'm headed over to Oakland today to pick up a New Hub Motor. $100 What the hell if it turns out not to be a hub motor I'm only out $100, I keep wasting time tracking down electrical ghosts, I would hate for it to be Hub Motor and the hub motor to be sold and then I gotta pay $500 for some other one.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       05-20-2019, 8:38 AM Reply   
Sounds like it's in the hub. Isn't the controller in the hub as well? So you are going to have to lace the wheel up to the new hub? I think you could get a whole wheel setup for around $250. I was looking and it seems hard to find 20" rear wheels with motor, but lots of 20" front wheels with motor, which is weird. Plus you'll get a new display and you'd have to mount an external controller to the frame.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       05-20-2019, 11:23 AM Reply   
Well My trip to Oakland was a Bust. The guy had Brand New 20 inch Hub Motors with Tire & wheel for $100, The only thing they are the Motors that have the Controller externally mounted. So if I wanted to use that wheel I would need a bunch of new parts. So I just passed. Yes my rear wheel has the Controller mounted in the wheel itself, I have a few more test's to try before I am sure its the rear wheel. And if its the rear wheel, I think I might be forced to spend some money and Upgrade, the new style wheel with the external controller. Fingers crossed, If i have to spend $500 bucks on this thing I think I will just pass, I see someone selling a nice used one for $900
So I don't wanna spend that on this bike and still have a older modle


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