Thoughts on 1993 4.3L Inboard
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I have read the forums for a few months but have never posted. Try not to tear the newbie apart.
I am a wakeboarding novice but am ready to buy a boat. I have searched around and have decided to go with a used/custom boat over a new/stock option. I honestly don't know much about boats but this seemed like a decent deal. What do you think about a 1993 VIP Wakeboard Boat (pics attached):
$10k Am I way off base or is this a decent option? |
That is an Inboard/Outboard, not an inboard.
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It looks like an I/O to me too, which means NOT GOOD for wakeboarding - the wake just isn't like a true inboard
you will not be able to surf behind it - least not with keeping all of you limbs.... it looks nice but anyone can dress up a turd 10k would go to a nice: Malibu Sunsetter Sport Nautique MC 205 Tige 2200 add another 5k to your budget and get a real v-drive Look for Nautique Supersport MC 205v Sanger v210 Sunsetter VLX tige 21v/2200v |
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Matt, is 10k your maximum budget? What is your main objective with the boat? Do you want something that is better for hanging out and can fit more people or a pure wake boat? Do you want a boat that looks cool because of tower speakers and a wrap or one that functions better?
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65% wakeboarding 25% hanging out 10% looks cool I could probably up it to $12K if needed - functionality is obviously really important but I also don't want to drop $12k on something that I'm embarrassed to take out! |
I should of asked this in my last post but how many riders are in your crew or how many people normally come out with you? Is it going to be used as a family boat at all? Does your lake/river get really rough from wind and large boats so that you would need something with more freeboard? Do you have any limitations as far as length of the boat or towing capacity on your tow rig?
Nicks suggestions are all good boats to keep an eye out for. |
I'm just assuming that's about a 19' Valiant from '93. NADA is only showing that boat worth about $2800 even with a tower. Might now be a bad beginner boat, but though I don't do a lot of low end I/O shopping, you could probably get a new Bayliner for not much more.
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Thanks again! |
Way overpriced, and underpowered.Keep looking.
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I think most of us probably started with an i/o and ended up moving to a true inboard. I am sure we did it cause we either did not know better or that is what our budget allowed. It is not a bad way to start for sure, but if your objectives are really that high, you might save up a bit more and get the right boat first. Not a bad move though. You also could get a lot more I/O for that kind of money unless you just want it to look pimp. I bought my first I/O (98 Four Winns with 30 hours and a V8) for that kind of money and that was some time ago. That guy has just put a lot of money into paint/wrap and an interior. You have to decide if that is really that important to you, and it does not sound like it. Besides it just kind of looks like they are trying to disguise the boat as a wake boat.
Either way not a bad choice to go I/O, but don't get pressured into making a decision. Find some local people on the board that are knowledgeable about both types of boats and try to go out and see the differences yourself. Good luck to you.... |
Also forgot Nautique 2001 --- great wake on these boats:
http://houston.craigslist.org/boa/1612874227.html http://sanantonio.craigslist.org/boa/1634564452.html http://austin.craigslist.org/boa/1603126979.html http://sanantonio.craigslist.org/boa/1632827727.html (not the best wake, but can work) here are a few on the price range |
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If you had $10k-$12k to spend on your first wakeboarding boat, would you go straight inboard or would I/O suffice for a few years? Or do you think it would be better to just go for the best inboard I can get, even if that means sacrificing "dock appeal?" |
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http://dallas.craigslist.org/mdf/boa/1632840611.html
http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/boa/1618200438.html http://austin.craigslist.org/boa/1623746936.html http://austin.craigslist.org/boa/1619149793.html Just some options. Some are a few thousand more than you said but may be able to be talked down. The hydrodyne will make a good wake as Nick can attest to but will be smaller. It will fit 6 people but will not be super comfortable. On the other hand it will drive great and burn little fuel. |
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Hydrodynes are the ****!
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Just 2 more cents.......
2001s, 205s, and Hydrodynes have proven records as good wake sport boats. I'd stay away from a TriStar though. With the integrated swimstep on the back being a part of it's 19' length, the interior is a lot smaller, specifically in the back, than a Prostar (that has a bolt on swimstep that doesn't count on the 19' length). That space is needed for things like seating, legroom, gear, ballast, etc. Considering gas prices, I think I'd steer clear of a big block too. |
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Im planning to sell my tige 22i when it warms up.
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for 12 i will deliver.
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http://austin.craigslist.org/boa/1606389817.html |
Prostar 205 is good, 190 not so much
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Pre 1990 PS 190s were VERY flat bottom boats. You can get a good wake from them, but your rub rail will be in the water a lot. And you will learn how to sub the boat...... and hopefully how not to. My brother had one & we dipped the stereo more than a few times. Another one to consider is the Supras back to like 1986. They had several models that had nice deep gunnels, bow riders, kick up a good wake with some weight. The issue with them is that they had wood floors, seat bases & stringers till the late 90s. Also had some pretty horrible 80s colors too. |
This one was recommended above...http://dallas.craigslist.org/mdf/boa/1632840611.html
Is the 190 powerful enough? Anything else I should ask about before considering? |
I have heard people say the master craft tristar is not so great for a wake boat. They said the wake was super sensitive and was not very big. A member on this board said the same about his. I do not have any first hand experience though.
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Interesting project boat for cheap
2001 natique wake cage huge tanks - $6000 (clearlake) -Looks like a GREAT option. Try using this search tool to search Craigslist in a huge area, like all of Texas. http://www.craiglook.com |
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So how long have you been looking? Don't be too hasty & settle on something you don't really want. The last time I did this, it took me 3 or 4 months of looking. I test drove like 10 or 15 boats, test drove all of them & even rode behind most of them. It was a fun process & made me change my mind as to what features I wanted in a boat.
Also spring is a terrible time to buy. Everyone is looking, and things can go for inflated prices (although in a down market that may or may not be true). Fall is typically a good time to buy, but then there is very little stuff out there for sale. So you just have to watch the ads all the time. And be quick about it when you see one up for sale. |
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1989 Tristar 190 w/ 1080 lbs. + 6 people
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I've been behind Nick W's Tristar and could do most all of my tricks.... the problem is when you add a lot of weight, you lose passanger room.
The tristar is a stick boat thought, but if you're riding with 4-5 usually it will be tight. Honstly if your budget is 12k... I would save save save for another year and be a boat whore, then next year buy a ballin' V-drive.... its worth the wait. |
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http://dallas.craigslist.org/mdf/boa/1632840611.html (not amazing wakes...) http://www.boattrader.com/listing/19...r-220-96503454 (high hours) Thanks again. This has been tremendously helpful. |
I am not sure. That 220 looks beat on. Maybe it is just the back seat that is tore up though which wouldn't be that weird since that is where everybody walks over. But beat on and high hours is not a good thing in my opinion. If they were in comparable shape I would take the 220 over the 190 all day long.
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I would go a totally different direction.
But something in the 25-30k range.....have virtually zero issues ( due to it being fairly new) Less likely you get to the ramp and your 25 y/o boat doesnt' wanna start..........been there. For the most part older boats constently need attension, regardless of condition. In this economy you can get some smokin deals on late model boats. Not so much on the older baot still holding their values. Put 10-20% down and finace the rest. Money is is still cheap right now. I would venture to say in 4-5 years when/if you decide to sell you wont' lose much on it. You only live once...lol. |
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At least the 220 has some room in the bow & around the back seat. Go sit in the 190 & see for yourself. The back seat is like 4" from the engine cover. And if it's a closed bow, thats a 2nd strike in my book.
I agree that $4k - $5k is a lot for maintenance. I'd say less than $1000 if you don't do any improvements at all. Occasionally you may have something bigger but thats not the norm. |
a few years back (when the economy was good and prices were high) I picked a really lightly used (only 290 hrs) 1995 Supersport (same as a SuperAir 210)
for 18k. I was in debt for a while but it was well worth the money, and honestly now with like 590 hrs / ballast/tower/stereo I feel I could sell it for about the same price. V-drives (especially prove wake makers) hold value like crazy |
my suggestion though is save a little and get to the 15k range and find yourself a v-drive
this one is a v-drive http://austin.craigslist.org/boa/1603126979.html |
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Thanks Brett. Is this (Four Winns) pretty bad? http://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/boa/1639096861.html
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The Four Winns is an I/O. A lot of us started out owning I/Os before we figured out what we were really into. Their not bad, their just a little more general purpose than an inboard..... kinda good at everything, not really great at any one thing.
In my book the weak link on that particular boat is the Monster Tower. But to each his own. At least the 220 Tristar has a Titan on it. You aren't likely to have issues there at all. |
That is an I/O and another overpriced one at that. At that age, inboards are far more reliable than I/O's due to the number of moving parts in the lower unit of I/O's that doesn't exist with inboards.
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that boat is to shallow you need more freeboard
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That is a very nice boat. It looks like it has a wedge. The downfall is that boat really was designed to be a hardcore slalom boat and has low freeboard. I have heard guys get a decent wake out of them but it may get kind of scary if you really want a big wake. How much do they want for it and what are some of the other details(hours)?
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I bet with 300 lbs in the bow, a 500 on each side of the engine and the wedge that boat will throw a a pretty decent wake. It is nicer than anything else that has been posted. Plus that boat is worth closer to 15k if it is in pretty decent shape. I bet you could buy that boat for 10-11 and use it for 2 years and sell for at least that.
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Not bad. Good wake like Brett said, although you wouldn't have any room to walk in it. But that goes with the direct drives. Definitely not a money pit though.
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By the way, I would rock that boat all day long for that price if I couldn't find a nice Supra Sunsport, sport Nautique or 205. |
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I think we may be getting close to the finale: can you guys tell me which of these you like better?
http://waco.craigslist.org/boa/1623360078.html * 1100 hours (70 on motor) http://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/boa/1638400408.html * 650 hours Both $11k |
Both those boat are very shallow the euro is a little better.
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im sorry the F3 is not bad.
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Look at the back of the boat if you sack it out, when you come off the throttle you can swamp the boat. Its a world class ski boat and no doubt malibu is well built but is was made to ski and that often makes for small wakes. I was like you when i bought my first boat i got the first inboard i could afford. It was a low freeboard old skiboat and could never get a good wake it was crowded and i damn near sunk it a few times so wait for something deeper, that sunsetter looks like it could work.
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Step two 11 seems a tad high for a 94. Any wood in it?
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Nope. You could wakeboard but it would leave you wanting a lot more in like a year or two.... then whats the point, you've got to do this all over again.
Years ago I convinced my mom to sell her little 18ft outboard runabout and give the money from the sale to me to buy a "new" boat... hers was like a 2/3 year old Larson Flyer... sold it for like ~8k, took the money went and bought a 1992 (ithink) Hydrodyne, put a ton of weight in the back w/ a custom box so we didn't lose seating and had a huge bag under the closed bow.... it was awesome until I got riding being a v-drive. Within two years that boat was for sale.... we paid 8k for it, used it for like 3 years, added a tower and stereo and sold it for 7500.... not bad. Then paid my mom back what she had in, then my best friend and I took out loans, pooled our money and found we had ~22k (he was in about 12k I was 10k) ... we started hunting for a boat (when the economy was good)... found a MC 205v (old x-star) and a NAutique Supersport (old SuperAir).... ended up going with the supersport, added a tower, ballast, stereo.... came in right around 21k with everything and now we have NO INTENTION of selling this until it dies, which I imagine won't be for a long time. When we bought the hydrodyne the guy was selling it to buy a v-drive.... its a constant cycle in the community I think.... I guess my point is you can buy now, but I will be willing to bet in 3/5 MAX you'll be selling for a v-drive.... you could just boat whore and save, skipping a step |
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No we rely on a crutch, like a big wake. :D I went from a 1994 205 with about 800 lbs of ballast to a 2005 Vride with 900 lbs of ballast, and adding more. The difference in the stance on the water, even when sitting still, is dramatic. If I'm sitting in the Vride & a surfer goes by, I don't really sweat it when the wave approaches. But in the 205, I'd have to start the boat & position it so the wake would come across the bow or it could easily swamp the boat. And driving the two boats, the Vride is definitely more forgiving. The higher freeboard definitely makes it easier on you all the way around. |
Thanks Nick. I wish that I could take on what it would cost to get a v-drive...but law school won't allow it!
I think starting out with something like the sunsetter listed above and learning the ropes for a couple years will work out pretty well...especially given that their values don't appear to drop much. It's just one of those things where you really want to have your own boat - but I'm sure you are right - in 2-3 years, I'll probably be moving on to step 2! |
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This is how I would rank those 3 boats. #1 95 sunsetter my a good sized margin. #2 94 sunsetter if the floor and stringers are solid #3 response These rankings are based on all boats being in similar shape and if they are all beat on I wouldn't buy any of them. I also based it on wakeboarding being the main objective. |
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How much boat experience do you have? Your kinda showing some naivete here. If thats true, maybe you should backup a bit here. How much ride time have you gotten under your belt? I ask because when I started doing this boat stuff, I really had no idea what I was going to be into. We lived near a bunch of ski/board manufacturers & I had a slalom ski that I wanted to learn how to use. I bought a used 18' SeaRay & learned how to back up a trailer, launch a boat, approach a dock, pull a skier, etc. A year or so of that & we picked up a wakeboard (the original Hyperlite) when they first came out. And we added some weight an an extended pylon to the boat. A few years of that & I picked up a used AirChair. A year or two of that & I sold the SeaRay & picked up the 205, which was 3 times the cost of the SeaRay. The point being that I didn't spend a ton of cash on a boat till I was pretty set in what I liked to do in & behind it. I bought that SeaRay for $7900 & sold it 3 years later for $5500..... I didn't think that was a bad investment for 3 yrs of learning experience. And had I fallen into a different discipline, or decided this sport wasn't for me, it would have been my way out without a major loss. You knowing about very specific features about a boat is definitely important to make a buying decision, especially if you think your going to keep the boat for any length of time. Believe me, our tastes change, and what may work for you now, may not work at all for you next year. Get some ride time behind a few different boats. You'll learn quickly what features & traits you do & don't like about a boat. And then when you do get one, it'll be a more educated decision for you. And maybe you'll have some more money too. Every boat owner needs 2 or 3 boat sluts to come along, drive for him while he rides, help drink the beer, pay for gas, wipe the boat down & launch the boat. A good boat slut brings beer & chips & all his own gear along. He's organized, shows up on time, and helps prep & take care of the boat. And every boat owner REALLY APPRECIATES his boat sluts & calls them back all the time! |
Matt, towers are overrated, go with a $100 ten foot pole. Straight old school gangsta. Just kidding, kind of. Think about it this way, would your rather have a great boat with a great hull and no accessories or a less than ideal hull/boat loaded with aftermarket accessories? The actual boat(hull, interior, drivetrain) are the most important things in the boat. All that other stuff can be added and for not too much money if you do some research and shop around. At least then you can upgrade and put whatever tower you want on the boat and like the guys have said the Titan tower or whoever is making it nowadays is only 1400-1500 or something like that. trick towers makes a tower for 1150. It might not have the best lines for that 95 sunsetter but is cheap and you should be able to install it if you have any friends with some tools and that are handy.
http://www.tricktowers.com/1752.html |
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+1 for no food... the only thing worse than crumbs all over the carpet was lifting up a seat and finding a bag of combos with enough mold foam to kill a baby... it was absolutely disgusting
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Bill - you are right, we are pretty amateurish. That's why we have set a fairly low budget and want to get something that would keep it's value should we need to sell.
You are probably right - but it's tough to turn back now. |
What about a 99 tige 22i for $11k?
http://www.wakeworld.com/uploads_use...42165_zoom.jpg I have received some mixed reviews - some have said that the Tige boats are great and others said that they are too wide to create great wakes. Thoughts? |
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Yea, I hear you Matt. It can be a fun process..... and it can be frustrating as hell too. But then again, ramming your new to you $20,000 boat into a dock or your trailer because you don't know how to drive it very well may be pretty frustrating too.
And I hear you guys on the food in the boat. I rarely ever have kids on the boat. And haven't have the problem with the food getting all over. And obviously some people don't drink beer either. But the point is that a good boat slut will contribute to the whole boating experience in ways that the boat owner can appreciate. Believe me when gas costs $4 / gallon & you walk up with a 5 gallon can ready to dump in his boat, you will make BIG points (just take a second to use a nice new gas can & know what grade of gas he uses). Matt, at least spend some time out on the lake & learn what you do & don't like about the different boats. Higher freeboard or a deeper floor is something that you will notice & understand why we mention it, especially when your surprised by a big roller hitting the boat & it blows water in your boat or tosses your little kid. Ask lots of questions too. Test drive the boats, even better if you test it in less than ideal conditions & get a feel for how it handles the chop. Learn the difference in riding in a boat equipped with a tower vs an extended pylon. Or how one boat turns a corner or pulls out of the hole vs another boat (all boats are not equal). |
found this one in denver don't know if this is to far for ya.http://denver.craigslist.org/boa/1639148318.html
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agreed. i would be all over that.
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Alright, finally found all of these old school pictures. Let me give you guys a little timeline. I agree with what was said above, you really need to get a boat that you don't mind, putting a few dings or scratches in until you get comfortable on the water. I've been across the realm on boats, been behind everything and owned what I "thought" I wanted at the time. So here it goes....
First boat at 14: 1956 Lonestar with a 35 hp Johnson Outboard engine, had to lean all the way forward with 1 person in the boat to pull us up. It was how we learned, and it was a boat we could care less about, got it free and just used the hell out of it. Started dreaming about Mariah's at this point.... Second boat at 19: 1988 Celebrity I/O, got it pretty cheap and custom built a sundeck on the back, added the tower myself and threw some ballast bags in every-once-in-awhile. This is when we started to get into wakeboarding more and didn't have alot of money. Kept this boat till the floor caved on me & sold it. Still wanting a "true" wakeboard boat. Third boat at 25: 1996 Mariah Shabbah, FINALLY!!!! Wrong, 18' boat, 4.3L 140hp V6 I/O Mercruiser. It could pull you up, but with a full boat it was SLOW! Stripped the decals and installed a black tower, it worked for a year. Decent wake, about the same as the Celebrity though. Started saving after I bought it for the "true" wakeboat. Sold it after a year, for more than I paid. Current boat, bought at 26: 2000 Moomba Mobius V. Bought it last year before season, It was a good 8 month process, drove a DD, hated them, there is no room for people in a DD imo, started searching for a V-Drive and the price went up, saved a little longer and got what I really wanted out of a boat. Room for 10, V-Drive, automatic ballast. LOVE IT!! I will never buy anything other than a V-Drive now. As you can see, I worked up to it and it was well worth the wait. If I could change anything it would have been to leave out the Mariah, it was a good boat but pretty dissapointing as for what I really wanted. Like everyone has mentioned, just go out and drive them, ride behind them if you can, take some friends and have fun with it. I took 5 people with me on my last test with the Moomba, get everyones opinions and see how everyone fits in the boat. Someone else will always see at least one thing you didn't. This post brings back alot of great memories though. Check out the pics, the boats are in order. |
Yeah that Supra looks pretty good and I'm sure you could talk them down. I know there was a supra like that up here in Washington that was all re done the guy was selling it for 12k and he ended up taking 9k for it, that was like a week or 2 ago. People are super negotable these days.
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The older Sunsports like that one in Denver are great boats. They feel a lot bigger with a lot more storage/hidden ballast space than any other direct drive I have seen and I think they went to all fiberglass in 92 but dont quote me on that. Just for a point of reference I sold my 1990 SunSport 2 years ago for $9500 which was more than I paid for it 2 years before that. I now have a 97 SunSport and I love that boat. With that said I still shop around for deals on V-drives...My wife tells me I have a problem. :P
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