Indmar = Ford Engines?
 

A friend at Supra said that Ford wants to get back in the industry with Indmar. Since they dropped out of marine because there wasn’t enough volume when GM got in the biz.

From the Indmar site, it looks like they are going to announce this whole deal at SEMA:

http://www.indmar.com/Experience/Announcement.aspx

"you know my feeling about Ford engines...nuff said."

EcoBoost marine sounds awesome!

I heard there is some big announcement next week from Indamar.... Interesting if that is really the case

I sure do like my gt-40!

Is it Ford or is it Diesel?

Man if there was a diesel option I would add it to my A24 I plan on ordering right now! That would be amazing. Not sure what they do with the smoke tho wouldn't there be particles of black smoke all over the water?

V6 EcoBoost would be interesting...

This is all speculation based on made up rumors with nothing to back it up.

Typical Wakeworld.:rolleyes:

I think they are just going to announce the fact that they are going to start using the new GM 5.3 blocks instead of the old school 350's

I think the marine industry needs a gamechanger cooling system that does not deteriorate the engine, causing leaks, rust, corrosion, impeller changes, etc. We are using the same type of cooling since the 1960's...

Was told by my dealer the reason Tige switched back to Indmar was because BIG things are coming from indmar. Was told that last year. So my guess is diesel or V6 EcoBoost so I really bring nothing to this thread. However my dealer is a huge engine guy as they repair everything from cars to boats.

Switching to Ford engines would kind of screw the dealers since they have been Chevy based for the most part in the past. New LS based engines would make sense.

I have talked with someone high up in a boat company, thats what he said, switching to new style GM blocks, because GM doesnt want to keep making outdated ****.

6.2L Raptor engines ranging from 370-600hp.

Just sayin..

my guess would be new gm blocks. Don't know why they couldn't use closed loop cooling??

birdie says 6.2L Raptors
370-600hp options..

pretty good birdie too. js

Raptor as in the truck or the company raptor??

6.2L Ford Raptor engines

Ford hasn't been in inboard business since 1995. That will be a cool welcome back engine.

thanks craig. just to clarify do you know if thats going to be an upgrade option or the stock motor?

pretty sure PCM was using the GT40 (ford) through 2002 or so.

IN MC's... Sorry. PCM had bought up all the remaining GT-40 motors and continued to use them until they were all gone.
Sorry for the mis info

I'm pretty sure Chevrolet will continue to supply as well. Just an option i'm guessing. I'm sure manufacturer's will get to choose.

I have a pretty good source telling me that there is a new motor, and it displaces 6.2L and it is not GM. So that should back up Craig

my source is pretty "in the know" so I'm willing to bet at least a cold beer on this one.. :)

Fuel consumption will be interesting. I'm pretty sure Ford Raptors enjoy stopping at the gas stations.

The 6.2L ford engine isn't just a "raptor" engine, it's a heavy duty engine as well in other F150 models so makes sense if they'd choose to marinize that one. Great engine and the fuel economy isn't any worse than the GM 6.2L in my experience.

Raptor sounds better than F250 XL Longbed engine though.. come on now..

600 hp NA or supercharged?

Not near as good as Ford 6.2L as it should be, the raptor doesn't do anything for that engine that a lariat or limited can't. The 600 hp won't be NA.

I don't know but on a side note I was just on Hennessey's website and they offer some crazy packages. Wish I were a millionaire instead of the damn hundredaire that i am.

I'm sure the 600 will be supercharged if i had to guess. Ilmor still has bragging rights on 500+ hp that is catalyzed and naturally aspirated i think.

Surely we aren't arguing over Ford trim packages.. geez

That's what happens when you let cat out of bag. Always animal control around...

Cat out of bag?? Only time will tell.

No prob sir.

My wife had a 6.2L in her lifted f150 harley truck. 9mpg!! Cant imagine how much fuel it would burn in a boat plowing through the water lol

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Bill, not in Twerk's experience. But only time will tell.

For what it is worth, I get 13.5mpg, average, with my Raptor. It is Roush phase II, 600hp/600tq..... 13.5mpg is not that good, however, a Raptor is turning 35/12.50s on each corner, and that destroys fuel mileage. Normal size tires, that weigh half as much, would add 3mpg easily.

In a boat, I would expect it to burn about as much fuel as the LSA.

A 600hp Raptor getting 16.5mph

Maybe getting towed behind an 800hp Raptor

But for real, stock raptor won't touch 16.5 that I've ever seen. Super nice truck though

Craig- you gotta reread what I wrote. It definitely wouldn't get 16.5mpg....... because of the tires it is turning. 35s kill fuel mileage. Raptor comes stock with 35/12.50s

Raptors are badass.. Don't get me wrong. I've just never seen one get even decent mileage. But, like boats, it's just part of owning expensive toys.. If I could afford one I'd have a raptor.. Lol. I'm just hatin.
I can't even afford a boat and I get free ones..

Why are all of you excited about the Ford 6.2L? It will:
- Make less power than the current 6.2L LS3 Indmar uses
- Is a physically larger motor, giving even less engine bay room
- Harder to work on
- Will likely get worse fuel economy
- Will likely be more expensive

I don't understand the excitement at all on that rumor.

Are you sure? Or are you stating your opinion?

Your classic Chevy/Ford argument.

Sounds like a good thing to me, currently GM has a monopoly. Competition is a good thing.

How on earth does the Chevy 6.2 make more power than the 6.2 ford? Everything I have seen the raptor motor makes way more power

Guess I should be more specific, meant in the low-mid rpm range. Peak hp and tq numbers don't mean much to a wakeboat, can't rev the engine to 5000 on takeoff

If they will use this, i'm putting my boat up for sale.

http://www.hyundaiseasallusa.com/

Facts, not opinions:
- LS3 makes more power than the 6.2L Ford motor.
- The Ford SOHC motor is physically larger than the GM OHV motor. Just take a look at them
- See above. Larger motor is harder to work on in a confined space. Also GM has made the LSx motors pretty easy to do maintenance on things, such as using O-rings on a lot of items instead of gaskets, you can swap cams without pulling lifters, etc.
- Obviously the LS3 isn't put into a truck, but the L92 is and is a similar motor to the LS3 - which happens to get better fuel mileage than the Ford 6.2L in the F150's.
- Ford is weird about the crate motors they sell, but I looked up what people are paying for the 6.2L Ford and it is more than a new Crate LS3.

So now it's a fact because you reposted it?:D

The ford 6.2l is 379 cu and produces 434 torque, the gm 6.2l is 376cu and produces 415 torque, both about the same with the ford having poetential of produceing more torque do to 3.7 stroke versus 3.62 , HP plays no part in the movement of a boat its only there for bragging rights, so it will be interesting to see what happens, I can tell you this when I slaloum ski behind a Nautique I cuold tell which was the Excaliber 330hp 5.7 chevy and which boat had the GT40 5.8l , the ford had 380 torque and the chevy 350 torque , the transition from dead start out of the hole was much easier with the GT40.

This is common misconception. Torque is a measure of force, not power. You can have 1000 ft-lbs of torque at 0 rpm, and it isn't going to move a boat very well. Only when you have torque at rpm (the definition of horsepower) are you going to move a boat

"Everything you know about inboard boat performance is about to change!" -via Indmar webpage

If that is the case, I dont know how a Ford sourced 6.2L changes everything I know about inboard boat performance. However I, and most of us on this site, have never been in a diesel tow boat, so that would potentially "change" everything we know. Anything less than a diesel or alternaitve propulsion system will be a serious exageration in the lead up to the anouncement. But with all the "game changers" in the industry these days I guess it shouldnt be all that surprising :rolleyes:

kinda how I feel. I have a feeling this is going to be a oil burner engine!!:D

when does this stupid thing happen?

I have no insider news and have heard no rumors, except for what has been posted above. Indmar's site as well as the banner ad on the main Wakeworld page state this is going to "forever change inboard performance and the watersports industry". Marinizing a newer style Ford block with significant horsepower is not going to forever change the industry, IMO. That would just be throwing a bandaid at the evolving problem of huge hulls/heavy weight + huge horsepower = exorbitant fuel consumption/costs.

I anticipate and hope this launch is more of an eco-driven move, whether that be in the form of less cylinders + turbo (diesel or gas), or some type of hybrid or electric drive that's been improved since some of the previous attempts by Epic, etc.

"Forever changing" the industry would be burning 2.5 or 3 gallons per wakeboard set vs. 5-6 gallons per set, while significantly reducing emissions at the same time. I can't help but think that will come in the form of a common rail turbo diesel under 5 liters with a diesel particulate filter setup. Boat motors are a farm/fleet type application. They need the most power at low RPM ranges, then steady power at a higher RPM's - this makes perfect sense to use a common rail diesel with a doughnut sized reliable turbo to accomplish this. Diesel particulate filters have also forever changed the emissions put out by diesels and eliminate the diesel smell and visible soot - making Indmar's relationship in California seem more feasible.

Guess we'll see here soon enough.

Tige's instagram says the live reveal will be today at 1 pst on indmar.com

5 pst

The new GM 6.2L produces 420hp and 460lb/ft. of torque.

As per Tige instagram... Its the Ford 6.2...
High torque game changer... Lol

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...

so whats so game changing??

Agree running on water or air would be a game changer. All the rest who cares unless your into engines.

I wonder if Tige was supposed to release that picture?

It is officially announced... There is a Supra SA in the Ford booth at SEMA that is all plastered with Indamar....

I guess the announcement has not been made cause Indmar's website says 5PM PT, but there are lots of pictures and info on Facebook posts that have seen that announce it and show a Supra SA in the Ford booth with the motor....

That Raptor and SA combo are bad azz!

agreed... see the matching (semi matching) tower as well?

Well it's official, I will not be buying a Tige next year!

+1, if it was the GM 5.3 that i have in my 2014 gmc, i would of totally went for a new boat, because its so damn fuel efficient.

or even if it was a diesel.




what the hell is so game changing about a ford...

More power!

ecoboost????

Why? Because they will offer a Ford 6.2L as one of the engine options?:rolleyes: It's only 1 engine and then an entire lineup of Chevy engines.

GM won't be an option for long...

Game changer....no impellar pump, no heat exhangers and not to mention all the other stuff that a marine engine HAS to have.

Pretty weak on Ford's/iIndmar's part to show up with car engine and tell everyone it is a game changer for the marine industry....coud they not even get marinized motor for SEMA...kinda lame in the presentation

Have fun changing that oil filter too!!!!!

That thing has got hips! Maybe they are trying to get the MasterCraft account back :p

I mean look how wide that thing is WITHOUT exhaust manifolds! Throw come cats on it and you be lucky if you can fit an old wedge sack in the storage lockers.

What a complete joke...seriously.

I have completely lost faith in watersport industry marketing. Tired of the same huge promises/BS marketing/hype only to be let down on the "unveiling" of these products.

Have any of you actually watched the SEMA video? Completely lame, horrible and rushed. 3:15 is where the announcement starts.
<iframe src="//player.vimeo.com/video/78682038" width="500" height="281" webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen allowfullscreen></iframe>

ford... go home, you are drunk.

The "Game Changer" already exists. http://cumminsengines.com/marine

Someone just needs to design an oil pan and transmission that works with a V drive boat.

No more GM - Ford motors only in the line :banghead:

What engine is in the supra parked next to it?

Speaking with no specific inside knowledge on this, I cant imagine the investment that Indmar is about to take on. Its not just water pumps and CATS but a whole new engine management system integration with our needed speed control, wake enhancement gadgets, surf gadgets, ect. I have no Idea how it will turn out but I commend Indmar for attempting a new approach. The Ford thing was a real surprise to me.

Although much too short for us wanting to know all the plans and specs, I thought Chuck did a really good job compared to all the other presentations. He left me with the impression that he was truly committed to seeing the project thru.

Because I have a wakesurfing buddy who lost his niece due to CO poisoning on an (non-Supra) old ski boat, I PRAY this motor helps getting CATS on 500hp+ motors. I know Indmar is trying to get this done.

Great to see the Supra in the background.

It will be very interesting to see how well this pans out for Ford, Indmar, and Supra... Overhead cam engines aren't really known for making torque at low engine speeds, which is what we as tow boat owners need. I have no specific engine data for the "marineized 6.2L" but going off the Raptor engine specs it doesn't even get above 300 ft/lbs until around 3300 RPMs and makes peak torque at 4500 RPMs. In my opinion there will have to be one heck of a gear reduction v-drive and large prop to make up that lost low-end torque compared to other options out there.

Here are a few dyno graphs I found... Granted these are on chasis dynos and the numbers may be a bit lower than going through a boat drivetrain, but either way I don't get warm fuzzies.

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...pseab37735.jpg

Link to article dyno graph was pulled from... http://www.autoblog.com/2010/05/02/f...en-more-power/

Now if they threw a Whipple supercharger on top, those numbers are quite promising! Nice flat torque curve all the way throught the RPM range. I guess we will have to wait and see once the actual engine is released and not just the truck engine sitting on a stand.

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...psf1c3cd8c.jpg

Link to Whipple Supercharger's dyno info... http://www.whipplesuperchargers.com/...sp?ProdID=1274

Where are you seeing this? Can you post a link? I watched the video and they only said the 6.2L, they never mentioned a full lineup of Ford motors.:confused:

Found the All Ford announcement on their FB page but it doesn't have a timeline.

So there might be an ecoboost marine motor at some point. Very interesting.

Engine prices are crazy on upgrading your boat. You think this will be any different with Ford? Will the consumer save anything or will this be even more money...?
I think the upgrade from the 350 HP to the 450HP has been about $10K. The upgrade from the 350HP to the 550HP was like $20K. My numbers are not exact but something along these lines.

You are about right with the msrp upgrade prices. It won't be any cheaper, if anything it will probably be more because last time I checked, the boat mfr's haven't put out the same boat with less cost in the the last 7 years at least.

on mbsports.net boat builder under options, prices on upgrading from the standard 350 to 410hp@ $5,500, 350 to 450hp @ $10,300, and 350 to 550hp@ $15,995

anyone know when this takes affect for indmar? I will be building an a24 shortly and wondering when the options take affect and which motor I would be getting?

Indmar not the only one loosing GM.

The following is from http://www.tradeonlytoday.com/home/5...ndrive-in-2014 Posted Oct 25th, 2013

Mercury Marine plans to introduce a new sterndrive engine next year as the company moves away from sterndrive engine blocks made by General Motors and strives to shift demand back to the segment.

“We’re coming out with a new sterndrive with lots of features no consumer’s ever seen before on a sterndrive,” Brunswick Corp. CEO Dusty McCoy told investors and analysts during a conference call on Thursday to discuss third-quarter earnings. “We think that’s important, as we move away from GM blocks and we own this whole franchise, that we bring something new to the market that the public’s never seen, and we’re confident that we’ll begin to stop the erosion in the sterndrive market.”

At least two boatbuilders have indicated that GM will stop producing the sterndrive blocks used by MerCruiser and Volvo Penta, although engine companies and GM have declined to specifically comment.

Despite the consumer shift away from the segment and the engine company’s focus on sterndrives, McCoy said Mercury and MerCruiser are well positioned for growth because the switch from sterndrive to outboard engines has largely occurred in freshwater markets where Mercury has a higher market share.

It is unlikely that Brunswick’s boat group will “actually achieve positive earnings” in 2013, McCoy said. Additionally, the sterndrive and inboard products are losing a little market share, he said.

“This is according to plan,” McCoy said. “This is why we’re taking down the pipeline. If we look at it in the following way, there’s a lot of small product where we’ve just taken models out because we don’t make that good of money on those and we’ve got a lot of great brands moving into those categories. We’ve made the decision not to put those [23-foot and under] models into the marketplace.”

The boat group has also taken some of the 40-foot range models from the lineup. “We carefully chose those models [that] didn’t have the margins on the models we kept have.

“I would say sitting here today that our modern lineup is not as fresh as we would like and we've acknowledged that, but we're also making enormous investment in boats in that 40- to 65-foot range,” McCoy said.

McCoy also indicated that the Bayliner brand also will continue to expand its value offerings similar to the Element. “The Element is an outboard product versus sterndrive and yes, we think there is room in the market for well-priced product, and we think the Bayliner brand is a good place to bring that in.”

— Reagan Haynes

Mase
I heard 2015. Not sure if this is accurate though.

seems like this is something manufacturers are more excited about than consumers.... i'm sure theres guys out there who are, but put me on the list of not. I'd never buy a boat with a ford engine. ever.

+1, from what ive heard around here they(GM engines) are reliable... I dont get the big hype.


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I did hear that old style gm blocks are not going to be produced anymore, starting 2014.

But that doesnt mean they cant start using the 5.3, or LSx

I hope you don't plan on buying a new boat any time soon then, because you are going to have quite a limited amount of options. Just curious, why not buy a boat with a ford block? If it doesn't cost more, I don't see the big deal

I am confused too as to why this is such a big deal. I'm not excited about the exact that the ford may or may not get better fuel economy, but if it runs and they warranty it. I don't care.

With ford in the mix and the possibility of an Ecoboost in a boat. I'll take it.

But it will. New boats continue to increase in cost year to year anyway, sometimes by 10% or more over the previous year's model. So why would introducing Ford's flagship V8, that has taken tons of money in R&D to marinize by Indmar, not come with a higher price tag than the tried and true, readily available GM offerings?

Fine by me, let them keep hiking up the cost of new boats. I'm thoroughly enjoying my 2008 that has depreciated in value, little, if at all, in the last several years.

I could see that being the case unfortunately. My comment was really directed towards those not complaining about price, but because of the fact that the motor is a Ford. I figure the usual Ford vs GM bickering probably has a lot to do with it.

The new Idmar is indeed Ford and it just dropped at Sema. Look at the pic/Description of the raptor towpig

http://www.autoweek.com/article/2013...n=awdailydrive