Diaz a better fighter than GSP!? LOL!@!!!(*^@()!*^!@()*@^!
Jason is right. GSP has done what he needed to do, to win.. nothing more. I do believe, this fight is personal for him and according to Dana White, the first time GSP has EVER, since his arrival in 2004, asked for a fight. I would really like to see Diaz vs. GSP... but I have a sneaky feeling that Diaz is not going to get past Condit. |
Oh, and for those that were watching fights on firstrowtv.... the site was shut down today. (I, of course, was not one of those people watching fights illegally on the internet)
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JBJ will absolutely demolish Shad.. Shad showed nothing against Davis.. Nothing.. His top control was better than it had been in the past but Davis has never fought off his back.. Bones iwll ruin him. I think Rashad will drop down to 185. I've trained with a LOT of top names in MMA and BJJ.. I would say that BJ is above average of the "good" black belts I've trained with - he is probably one of the more natural/gifted people I've shared a mat with.. Today, there are definitely more advanced grapplers. BJ won the Mundials at black belt - but I don't think he could come even close to repeating today. The game has changed from a sport jiu jitsu perpsective. Hybrid guard games, leg attacks and PED's are now the name of the game in competitive BJJ.. He's phenomenal - but I've "felt" better. That's something to be said. |
I wasn't trying to insinuate that Diaz is better than GSP, just that he has the killer instinct that I find lacking in GSP. I trust Jason's POV and hope to see a fierce GSP who is trying to KO or submit fighters. I hope he comes back on form and gives us a show.
With as much as the Diaz brothers jaw at least you can respect the form these guys show up in to fight. |
GSP will destroy Diaz - even if he's not 100% after the ACL.. No question about it.. He uses his range VERY well on the feet and he will have easy take downs, It will be like childs play putting Diaz on his back.. And he's not stupid - he's an advanced black belt. He's not going to put himself into a triangle. Diaz has great BJJ from his back - but he has had trouble in the past with guys with strong top game and active GNP..
See: Diego Sanchez GSP will do him ugly... I hope Condit wins so we don't have to worry about it. As for GSP "fighting not to lose".. I agree.. But there is a reason for it.. GSP is making around $5m per fight. By far the highest paid fighter in the UFC right now.. There is significant financial incentive for him to be calculated and "fight not to lose".. He's still putting the stamp on fools - even if he isn't finishing them. The guy has beat the whose who of top 10 welterweights over the past 5 years. Cant fault him for that. All it takes is ONE loss and that $5m per fight drops DRAMSATICALLY.. It's one thing to go from making $400k a fight to $250k a fight if you lose. But GSP would drop from $5m a fight to about $1m a fight. That's huge. |
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Diaz is a fighter GSP is an athlete. GSP is just a much better athlete than Diaz is fighter. I'll pay to watch Diaz fight - but GSP i'll only "pay" to see if he's fighting someone I like or the undercard interests me. |
GSP has 1 finish since 2008, I mean Fitch was stopped, Dan Hardy was KO'd. GSP is fighting good fighters but if your pound for pound one of the top 3 then you should finish guys like that. And the excuse about $$$, bull...Silva manages, JBJ finishes. How is it that the top 3 pfp guys and GSP is the only one that doesn't finish...maybe because he is over rated! DIaz and Condit both better fighters then GSP
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And Diego Sanchez fight was in 2005 I think he has progressed a little since then
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And Bones and Silva dont' make anywhere near GSP money.. Silva never will, Jones will have to wait another year to get the "big" spotlight. |
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But I have seen every indication that GSP's wrestling has gotten better. Your call to make. We'll see if Diaz gets past Carlos and if he does - he better prepare to fight off his back. |
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But to say he is pound for pound up there w/JBJ or Silva is crazy! To say he is as good as those guys but doesn't finish cause he doesn't want to risk losing well, IMO that risk is part of what makes you pfp one of the great fighters. GSP doesn't finish because he knows that he has no chin and no power so he does what he has to. I don't think Diaz or Condit are elite fighters yet either, but they are better then GSP. |
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Because Diaz hasn't fought ANYONE with decent wrestling since he left the UFC the first time. No one. He hasn't fought anyone with anything even rREMOTELY close to good wrestling.. Much less the best wrestling for MMA in the world like GSP.. Apples and oranges.. He was fed a **** load of cans and washed up strikers in Strikeforce.. Scott Smith, Paul Daley, Cyborg Evangelista, KJ Noons, Slamcock, Marius Zaromskis, etc Not anyone with even B level wrestling. Much less A+++ wrestling.. Did you see how atrocious his offensive wresling was when he gassed out in Strikeforce? It was horrendous.. GSP will beat him everywhere the fight goes. |
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This thread has turned HILARIOUS. It's fine to say GSP isn't a pound for pound great because he doesn't finish.. if that's what you really believe. However.. to say he isn't an elite level fighter is the most ridiculous thing I've ever f'ing heard.
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Gaurantee 100% GSP does NOT finish Diaz...actually he won't finish Condit either. All these people on GSP's jock, but I no one willing to predict a finish by GSP...that says everything you need about how good GSP is. |
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Haaa...that was good. I like Diaz but I don't think he is any type of elite fighter, I'm just saying GSP is not....at least not worth all the ball washing he gets. I wouldn't be suprised at all if Condit ends up being the best out of all of them his game is strong.
I just think its a major disrespect to guys who are putting it on the line every fight because they want to be the best in the game and then you have GSP who just wants to play it safe every fight. And then eeryone comes along and groups them all in the same category...they are not even in the same league! |
This is turning into sherdog.com forums.. I love it.
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JBJ, Silva, Aldo in a different class right now then everyone else.
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You know.. Those awesome fights he's had, right? You forget about the Damian Maia fight? How about that Thales Leites barn burner. He's had me at the edge of my seat.. He's been fighting top competition for years! James Irvin is P4P top 5 on everyones list. GSP has been fighting top 5 to top 10 guys and beating them EVERY time.. Anderson is a product of fighting in the weakest, shallowest division in the UFC.. Aldo is looking spectacular fighting against guys who have been fighting for less time than this thread has been alive.. JBJ and GSP are on another level. Consistently beating the top guys.. I say this all as the #1 BJ Penn nut-rider.. I *hate* GSP - but he's beat the who's who of 170 time and time again.. Fitch Kos x2 Penn Alves Shields (he was on a 19 fight win streak - stop hating) Hughes etc etc etc. |
Haha, now I know you must be related to GSP or something, Silva not as good??? Second rate competition: He has faught everyone...Belfort, Franklin, Hendo (in his prime), Okami, He's faught Horn and Newton (when they were in their prime). Thats every bit as good as guys like Shields, Alves, Kos, and Fitch (who just got destroyed).
Just looked it up GSP has 9 decisions in 19 fights in his UFC career, Silva 14fights 2 decisions. Yep not as good as GSP. How can people not see that every good fighter that GSP fights goes to a decision, he doesn't even finish guys like Parisyan and Mayham...what they hell. |
I am a long way from a GSP lover, but bottom line he finishes fights. He figures out what your weakness is and beasts them at their own game. Winning is Winning. Unlike other sports where you can say wins but does not cover a spread (dallas cowboys), winning is winning in MMA. He might not be exciting, but his hand is raised more than anybody but Anderson against the best in the world. He was made in the UFC, not in other division. Unlike Shields and some others, he has never had to face "weaker" competition. He also had to fight the best and did so convincingly. He has not lost a round in what like 30-40 rounds? he may not be exciting, but has to be one of the hardest working TRUE athletes on the planet. JBJ was graced with length, speed and power. GSP works to gain his strengths. Diaz for that matter too. BJ, JBJ, Anderson, Aldo and maybe even Edger are freak athletes that rely on their born gifts and build form there. Most others have to work at it. GSP just works harder than most. There have been few athletes in history that possess the gift and still work harder than the next guy - Maybe Jerry Rice, Jordan, Tiger (young), Ali, Peyton Manning, and I am sure there are a few more that are escaping my Friday afternoon brain. GSP is the next generation MMA - Superior athlete, incredible dedication, and hardest worker. Long term - He will go down as the winningest MMA fighter short of JBJ probably. No where in the hall of fame will it say - GSP - Most decision in MMA history or Asterisk with X by decisions.
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Silva has the best record in the worst division. Okami is trash. Belfort is trash. Franklin is the same as Silva - he's a product of a ****ty division. LOL @ talking about fightin Horn and Newton like it's relevant. How about Ryo Chonan? You want to bring that up? GSP has fought MUCH tougher competition. |
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Silva vs. Sonnen... How do you explain that gem? |
No I acknowledged it, they were his 2 decisions compared to GSP's 9. Didn't Silva win...and finish Sonnen? Its not like these guys GSP is facing can't be stopped. Don't worry GSP did win award this year:
http://www.mmamania.com/2011/12/23/2...-honor-ufc-mma |
Jason, as always... your posts are excellent. 100% on everything you said.
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Do you guys even watch the fights |
Yeah Erik, been years since I missed a UFC/Strikeforce/Dream and all the others. I follow most of the fighters and have for years. My betting record in MMA is well over and in fact was a strong 82% for over one year solid. Does not mean I am never wrong on anything crazy like that. I always admit the guys that I really like and yet still often pick against them. So I never let my biaz get in the way of my money!
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Ok I've been reading this thread and sitting here shaking my head. I have an analogy, anyone old enough to follow the Chicago Bulls in the 90's new that the Bulls were the best team hands down. Whenever they rolled into town you pretty much new you were losing. Now I recall games that were really close but 9 times out of 10 they pulled it out. The Bulls were simply unstopable. But here is the thing about GSP
Although GSP doesn't finish many fights, he doesn't just squeek by, he makes great wrestlers look bad wreslting, he makes good stand up guys look bad standing up, he fights top notch BJJ guys and never gets submitted. GSP is a freak of nature. He isn't just the best 170lb fighter in the world, he blows everyone else out of the water. He is the Michael Jordan of the 170 division. So big deal he isnt a knock out puncher, some people arent. That isnt his game. But I will tell you this, I would never ever bet against GSP because I will tell you this, you will lose your money my friend. Stand up, wrestling BJJ athleticism damnd GSP is the total package. Not one person has really given him a problem. On another note, he is probably the smartest and most tactical fighter in the sport. The guy will be a legend regardless what the haters ay. Peace out! |
Yhea Poser - I have said almost those same words time and time again. I have wrote several columns on MMA for other websites and people always give me crap about GSP, but I say the same as you. He is gifted, Plus works hard, plus is super smart. JBJ is on the same path, but straight vicious. We'll see whenever he loses if he doesn't change a little. Urajh Faber certainly did. He was a straight killer until he lost to Mike Brown the first time. He is still amazing, but not the same fighter. he looked timid against Cruz.
Oh well, does not much matter who wins tomorrow because GSP will continue his dominance. Here's tipping a glass to you all and we'll see you on Monday. Buffalow.... Out! |
Nate-Punk got outclassed and shut down. :p
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Condit dictated that fight. He circled out, great head movement, nice combos, kept distance with kicks on many levels... It was an impressive showing. I don't think either fighter demonstrated anything worthy of GSP though.
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He's got nothing for Ground St. Pound though. |
Anyone think they will get Condit a fight before GSP? GSP isn't ready til November - that's along ways off. I see Condit fighting someone. I sure hope it's not Kos - cause I think Kos could wrestle-**** him and win and then we're staring down the barrel of GSP / Kos III.
Kos left AKA after some beef - maybe they will make Fitch Kos for the kicks of it and put in someone else against Condit. No clue who that might be. The only real "up and comer" that GSP hasn't already beat is Rory McDonald and that is GSP's protege.. I dont' want to see Alves or someone like that in there. |
Nevermind.
Dana just said he's going to try to put together Condit vs. Diaz II before GSP returns. There is the answer. |
Yhea I see Dana having to make that re-match. Everybody wants GSP vs Diaz including him and GSP and so they are going to make it happen. Not sure much different will happen. Although Condit was not the aggressor or had the control of the octagon, he was the smarter and more active fighter. Either way, neither of those guys are ready for GSP. Let's say they don't do the rematch, who does Diaz fight night - Kos? Fitch? Both guys will wrestle the hell out of him. I know all about his back game, but those aren't average wrestlers. I am not sure if he would even return to fight those wrestlers. I know he is all about money and he will get paid well, but Condit gave everybody another template to beat him. Stick and Move. As usual Greg Jackson's game plan was superior and his fighters stick to a winning game plan. makes me wonder why Melvin Guillard left.
Nelson-Werdum - Pretty much as I said, but holy crap Nelson is a tough SOB. We knew he was tough after the warts he has been in, but wow those Knees were crazy. Puts Werdum like top 4, right? Figure Jr,Cain/Ovreem, Werdum, than probably Mir? Jorgen/Baro- What we expected, excellent performance by Barao. Good back and fourth action. Koscheck wins, but not convincingly. Certainly looked lackluster. Just does not look like he had the fire as in the past. Overall glad I watched it somewhere and did not have to pay for it. Plenty more cards coming up. |
Seems like this GSP discussion will never end. 50% of the fans of the sport feel like if you don't finish a guy you aren't a real fighter and the other 50% are right - wins = $$$.
I have no idea why they would do a Diaz/Condit II - not a super exciting fight to watch but I felt Condit really executed the right game plan throughout the entire 5 rounds. I loved watching Diaz trying to get in his head and Condit just kept executing. Is it just me or have many of the top contenders looked horrible in their last fights. Rashard, Kos, Sonnen. Is this ring rust? In Sonnen's case I guess he quit taking roids but the contenders in some of these divisions have not looked great. |
Don't know if I would want to see Diaz/Condit 2. It was a good win for Condit he had more weapons then Diaz, I would have preferred to see him be an aggressor, because I think he could have finished Diaz. i was suprised at how well he mixed up his attack but felt like it was another play it safe fight (which Condit is not known for). I guess most people are right UFC is becoming more about do what it takes to win with as little risk as possible. I think Condit won for sure but I hope he doesn't become one of those do what it takes to win fighters...like you know who;)
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Agree with both you guys.
The reality is that the scoring system sucks! That is a huge reason why this happens. Until they get it worked out, your going to see this type of thing. They need to revamp the whole thing. I know they have Chuck and some of the old timers working on changing the rules. Kind of like when it wake-boarders were changing the rules of the skiers :) |
Condit rightfully won that fight. Chasing after someone for five rounds doesn't win you a fight and Condit was MUCH more effective with his striking and kicks. It makes me laugh that Diaz fans think he won the fight because he chased Condit around (the ever famous Octogon control!) and landed a weak takedown and had a submission attempt in the final minute. The fact is Condit has a brilliant gameplan, was much more effective and didn't let Nick Diaz and his parade of BS get into his head.
Nick Diaz wants someone to stand against the cage and throw punches for five rounds. This sport is called mixed martial arts for a reason. If you want to fight that type of fight.. move on over to boxing and get your face smashed in, even more than it already is. The putting his hands down and taunting Condit.. the crybaby antics after the fight... all the reasons I HATE Diaz. He's a classless tool. Retire from fighting?? How?? What else will he do with his ninth grade education and inability to form one coherent sentence? I don't care if they fight again... neither will touch GSP. On a side note.. Kos looked like sh**. I agree - the top level fighters of late have really been pretty awful looking. |
Maybe Ellenberger will put the stamp on "The Dream" and cement his legitimacy for a shot at Condit.. Rather see Condit fight Ellenberger than to fight Kos or Fitch of Alves or even McDonald.
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On a somewhat related note....this Fuel TV deal with the UFC has really f'ed me. I have comcast - which doesn't carry Fuel TV and DirecTV/DISH wont install HD dishes on our building. I am totally getting screwed.
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How long will this Diaz retirement last? Are we taking bets?
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Erik - If you thought Kos on Saturday night looked on par with GSP.. there is really nothing I can say. You've said it all yourself. :)
Diaz won't retire. He's butt hurt and he'll be back in no time. As I said before.. what else is he going to do? |
Yhea Kos looked Slow (Except one double which was lightening fast) and a little weak. I say Fitch would take him out right now (even with Fitch's loss), maybe that's the next fight - two grinders. I agree Ellenberger is the next guy. Although I NEVER count out Diego - He is a monster. He has been so close for so long (like Guida). Got to tell you right now Diego is a +242, Would be worthy of a bet regardless. He is dangerous no matter what.
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So Condit beat Diaz huh? Man I wish I would have purchaed that. It just goes to show you guys that are stars in other organizations come to the UFX and arent the stars everyone thought. I am suprised that Condit out boxed Dias though. The Diaz brothers have that weird slow well executed bosing game that seems to work for them. Condit IMO was always a one punch knock out guy. I have to say Greg Jackson is the man when it comes to helping his fighters with their game plans.
I went to pay my charter bill today it was nearly 300 bucks. I had to UFC pay per views and a bynch of regular movie purchaes my kids did. Did you know there movies are frigging $4.99 each? The charter bundle ripping me off again!!!!!!!! |
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I hate The Dream more than anything. I'll be cheering Ellenberger wildly. Roger Gracie to Blackhouse and 185... Is there enough time to get his stand up to par with the top dogs? No ground game in the world measures up and he's one of the VERY few high level, ultra elite grapplers with SICK wrestling and top game.. His BJJ for MMA should transition flawless. Can Blackhouse get his hands right? If so - he will be NASTY. |
Rashad Evans and JBJ scheduled for UFC 145 in April. I can't WAIT for this fight! I really can't see any possible way that Rashad Evans can win this fight. How can you knock someone out when you can't even reach their chin? :) :)
Condit also just accepted an immediate rematch with Diaz. BOOOOO! Just yesterday his manager was saying possibly down the line, after his fight with GSP... now today, it's a done deal with Diaz. The UFC must have offered him a ridiculous amount of money. Condit has nothing to gain and everything to lose... I don't know why he'd possible take that fight. Must have been some big $$$$$$. |
BAD BAD BAD Decision for Condit. If he wins, good for him and he gets paid and shuts every one up. If he loses, will be a third fight to decide the "real" interim champ. If he wins the same way as first fight, he will get nothing but **** on. If he loses by anything short of a KO, the first fight will be called a fluke. This is all freak'n bad. Great for Diaz though - Win win. If he loses nothing changes - he is still #3 guy.
JBJ Will destroy Evans in one round. JBJ is dangerous enough without having a personal mission and one year to train against you. Not to mention Greg Jackson knows everything there is to know about Evans and his weaknesses. There is not a place in the ring that Rashad is better than JBJ. You could argue Rashad has a punchers chance, but tell that to Rampage who just looked dazed and confused why he could not get in on JBJ's 84.5" reach. Funny I was playing Undisputed 3 last night as JBJ verse Silva. Just having that range I can stay on the outside and dance around. Not saying that would happen in reality, but crazy how much difference that reach really is. |
JBJ and Silva is a fight I'd really like to see. JBJ has something like a nine inch reach advantage of Evans. I actually used to like Evans quite a bit.. but the sh** he's talked about JBJ just makes me laugh. What is "fake" about him? His ability to kick everyone's ass in the division?
I can't f'ing believe the UFC is giving Diaz ANOTHER chance. UGH!! He lost.. fair and square. Because he cries like a baby about an unfair decision (WRONG) and his idiot fanboys blast Twitter with the same nonsense.. we have another fight. Lame. I know it's all about money, because the UFC desperately wants Diaz to fight GSP.. but damn.. Condit is getting the shaft. I would much rather see Diaz and GSP fight.. but fair is fair. |
The only reason they are giving Diaz a chance is because GSP wants him so bad. GSP said yesterday he would forgo his title, let Condit have the title just so he can fight Diaz (assuming Condit wins again or the rematch doesn't happen)..
Now Nicks camp is saying they aren't taking the fight, even though they called for it. As The World Turns |
So now Diaz "can't" fight and the fight is off? What the heck is going on over there? I can't come up with any solution in my head that Diaz does not take this fight unless he thinks he can't win or this is a another ploy for money.
This feel alot like UFC does not want conduit to have the belt so they will force something (like when they forced Couture to come back and get the belt from Tim Sylvia). This smells bad. At least next week we get free fights AND undisputed 3! |
Condit isn't very marketable. He doesn't talk ****, he's not very personable, etc. He's no GSP and he's not JJ.. He's kind of like Edgar - he's a worker who doesn't talk.
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The UFC f'ed up when they gave the power to Diaz. They bowed down to him and his BS crybaby antics and now he's in the driver's seat. Idiots. Tell Diaz to go fly a kite and move on already. I guarantee he will come crawling back.. he has no other option.
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I have heard a rumor that the NSAC had some announcement to make and speculation is Diaz tested positive for something, most likely marijuana.
Again, this is all hearsay so don't lambaste me if I'm wrong. |
Yeah, I just read that..
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news...s-there-smoke/ If it's true.. what an IDIOT! I don't care if he smokes weed.. he probably needs it to keep from being a total psychopath.. but to be that careless in what is probably the biggest fight of your career? Moron. |
Yup, lots of rumors floating that he pissed hot. Wouldnt be the first, probably not the last.
Would explain why Cesar said "we wont take the Condit fight and that's all I'm saying".. Getting ready to have the bomb dropped on them again. At least this fight won't have to be over turned based on the results like the Gomi fight was. |
Keith Kizer of NSAC just announced that there was in fact 1 positive test from 143 - and he will announce who it was and what it was later today.
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Dumb ass!
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Well there goes that... Wonder if he has to return the purse?
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The last time he tested positive for weed in 2007, he had to pay a small fine and was banned by the NSAC for 6 months. I doubt he'll have to return the money he earned.
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Confirmed:
http://www.mmaweekly.com/nick-diaz-t...lowing-ufc-143 What an idiot. No wonder he's been unusually quiet on Twitter. Where is Chael Sonnen when you need him!? |
Based on recent banned substances - a fine and at least a small ban. After the second/third offense, though it gets very steep.
That's why Cesar said nothing because he knew. Imagine if that was for GSP and somehow he beats GSP |
Now that Diaz is out of the picture and GSP is done throwing a fit about not being able to fight him, we are on to this Wednesday. It's a freebie so Yhea to that. Lot's of young talent here, but only the headliner really has any implications to the top tier's. It is rumored that if Ellenbeger were to win convincing and not injured, he might fight Condit in the summer. Not sure why the same would not be true for Diego, but not rumors about him yet. I will shoot up my thoughts a little later but figured I would start talks early Monday to start the work week.
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Yay Ellenberger... BOOO Sanchez!
That's about all I can muster for 8:42 on a Monday morning. :) |
Dirty Sanchez is like a larger Clay Guida, the dude never stops coming. I have to give him kudos for his tenacity but man the guy needs to lighten up a little. I mean every time Diego fights and starts his walk out I can't help but laugh at the faces he makes. He does have skills as a fighter though, Diego like Guida is one of those fighters who although really good, will never be good enough.
I guess we can say that about a lot of fighters. Anyway free tomorrow night you say? What time and what channel? Spike? |
Fuel TV
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Just had to add the Surewest Sports package to get fuel... Only $6 but still.
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Jake Elleneberger looked fantastic.. He dominated 2.5 rounds, his footwork and headwork was absolute insane and he sat down on all of his punches and made it work.
**** you Diego for making excuses after the fight. POS. I liked the Supersized CroCop too! |
I didn't see the fights.. but I did see Nick Diaz post on Twitter that Diego got robbed in the decision. True? Doesn't sound like it based on the above post.
I'm glad Ellenberger won - I'd like to see him next in line for Condit. |
Hell no - he did not get robbed, Diaz either. Jake looked great, kind of like condit. Stick and move and don't get in a war with a slugger. Diego snapped out of it and killed Jake in the third. Diego was very frustrated the first two rounds.
The rest of the fights were ok. |
My buddies and I had Ellenberger 2-1. Just because Diego probably won that last round doesn't mean he won the fight.
One of the guys sent us all an email this AM: "In an interview with Ariel Helwani, post fight, Dana said that the UFC “blew it” in response to why the Ellenberger vs Sanchez fight was not 5 rounds. Prior to fight time ALL FX and Fuel main events were going to stay with the traditional 3 round, non-title format, FOX and PPV Main Event would be the exception. However, after watching the fight Dana said ALL Main Events that are not already under signed contract will be 5 rounders from here on out. Awesome! I think Ellenberger clearly won that fight in a 3 round format, but Diego seemed to have the edge and gas tank would it have gone an additional 2." http://www.mmatko.com/dana-white-tel...-not-5-rounds/ |
Ellenberger was up first 2 rounds and half of the 2nd, he slipped down and made a mistake and let Diego get on top of him. If it wasn't for the last minute he would have won a unanamous decision. From what I saw, there is still nobody to challenge GSP. GSP needs to move to 185 plain and sinmple! If I were Dana I would have Silva and GSP fight at a catch weight of 180 If Silva wins then he needs to fight Bones Jones at 205. BAM!! Silva will beat GSP and if he fought Jones standing he would beat Jones but if it goes to the ground I have Bones by ground and pound!
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