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Old    Christopher Stack (deepstructure)      Join Date: Jun 2002       11-18-2003, 4:04 PM Reply   
so i was out at elsinore at the wakesurf day. wasn't there to wake surf, went out wakeboarding with sean while we waited for he and his friend to get their turns in. im not that interested in wakesurfing, tho i've done it a few times.

here's my question. i know some folks who ocean surfed before wakesurfing like it, but i just can't get into it. its a mildly interesting diversionary tatic when conditions aren't otherwise good for wakeboarding imho, but some people seem really into it.

im wondering if the real stoke for this sport is with those that haven't ocean surfed. it seems the two are in many ways diametrically opposed.

my dissatisfaction with wakesurfing seems to fall into two categories:

1) physical
2) metaphysical

the physical part is that the wake just isn't as good behind a boat. yes, its permanent and easily accessible (if you have access to a lake a $40K boat with a lot of weight in it!), but most of the waves i've ridden (and in southern california's southbay during anytime other than the middle of winter the waves are pathetically small), are still bigger, better-shaped and move faster than a wakesurf wake.

the metaphysical part is what really seems to be missing with wakesurfing. surfing to me isn't necessarily about tricks, wakesurfing seems to be all about tricks - there isn't much else to do.

surfing is about feeling the power of the sea, about being in the elements, about struggling to catch a wave and ride it, about feeling it surge and change beneath you.

am i the only one that feels this way?
Old    Paul (paulsmith)      Join Date: Mar 2002       11-18-2003, 4:19 PM Reply   
Nope, I agree 100%. There really is no comparison. Its not that I don't enjoy wakesurfing, I do. Its a fun activity especially with a group of good friends but ocean surfing has become part of who I am and is something I want to do as much as I can for the rest of my life. There truly is no comparison between the two.

One thing that kind of favors wakesurfing though is how easy it is to learn compared to ocean surfing. I think the tough learning curve of ocean surfing keeps a lot of people away. It is only after you can consistenly paddle into waves and go down the line that ocean surfing really gets its hooks into you.
Old    Mike Buckingham (sdrider)      Join Date: Sep 2002       11-18-2003, 5:29 PM Reply   
"Surfing is about feeling the power of the sea, about being in the elements, about struggling to catch a wave and ride it, about feeling it surge and change beneath you".

Chris, your quote sums it up perfectly. I also agree with Paul completely. Nothing, and I mean nothing behind a boat can compare to dropping in, setting up and figuring out the best and most fun way to rip a wave. Also, you'll never experience what it's like to spend any time in the "green room" while riding behind a boat.
Old    BoRed (sdboardr99)      Join Date: Aug 2001       11-18-2003, 6:28 PM Reply   
On the other hand, I'm guessing you never wakesurfed with a good wake on a quick board. I really like it and find it challenging and a lot of fun.
Old    Paul (paulsmith)      Join Date: Mar 2002       11-18-2003, 6:32 PM Reply   
I'm not sure if I'm the "you" you are referring to, Bill, but I agree wakesurfing is fun and challenging. I have been behind a Tige wake that was pretty sweet on a Landlock. Like I said, it was fun. But it did not compare with Chris' quote above referenced by Mike. That says it all. I am not trying to disparage wakesurfing, just saying that as someone who has done both I find one to be life-changing and one to be a mildly entertaining diversion with friends. Just my experience, doesn't mean yours isn't different and valid. What works for some doesn't work for others.
Old    Blabelmooch (blabel)      Join Date: Jul 2001       11-18-2003, 6:52 PM Reply   
One more "No comparison" for the records here!

I enjoy wakesurfing but in small doses. It's great to sit in a boat and yell at your friends while they're surfing and its fun to get yelled at while your doing it. If I had to move away from the ocean I would do it a lot more.


But unfortunately it just doesn't compare. There isn't much room to move around on a wakesurfing wake. because of that there is only so much you can do. With ocean surfing, the possibilities are almost endless.

If someone makes a boat that will produce a head high barrel I might change my mind.

Bill, I'll have to agree with you, I haven't been on a really nice wakesurf wake like yours on a board that I like. I think it would make it much more enjoyable.
Old    BoRed (sdboardr99)      Join Date: Aug 2001       11-18-2003, 7:03 PM Reply   
Sorry Paul, I should have been more clear - I was referring to Christopher. I think it comes down to surfing is a way of life, and wakesurfing is just fun.
Old    English (kristian)      Join Date: Nov 2002       11-18-2003, 9:04 PM Reply   
Man I've got it all wrong, I thought it was all about the exhaust fumes
but IMO, I think its just something thats fun.
Old    Christopher Stack (deepstructure)      Join Date: Jun 2002       11-20-2003, 3:10 PM Reply   
i agree, i wasn't trying to say one wasn't worth doing. i was wondering if other ocean surfers felt the same lack of stoke for it. i've seen people who are really into wakesurfing and i began to wonder why i wasn't that interested in it.

im also not that interested in wakeskating, but i chalked that up to the fact that i was never that interested in skateboarding either. when i started thinking about it, i realized that although wakesurfing is fun, its only something i would do if the conditions didn't warrant wakeboarding, probably just because i don't get to wakeboard as much as i would like and therefore don't want to spend any time i could wakeboard doing anything else.
Old    Marcg (marcg)      Join Date: Oct 2003       11-21-2003, 9:30 AM Reply   

Do I consider it on the same level as surfing in the ocean?..no way
But I am not going to snob something simply because it does not compare to the norm.
Bottom line if it is fun for me I'll do it....and yes wakesurfing is a lot of fun.
Old    obsurfer            11-21-2003, 10:31 AM Reply   
Ok here we go!! The main reason is the stoke with friends. Take a group of friends to any good break(when its good)and see what happens. Yes the ocean has more power.DUH
I think when you go out on a boat you are just out to have a good time. When you go surfing at a good spot you have to put on a competitive attitude.Or get denied.(or see longboring)
Its more fun on a boat. When its flat. Sunday it was FLAT.
I think its time for a name change just so it doesn't come up again. How about boatboarding.Then we can compare it to snowboarding. Oh no here we go again.
Old    sid7 (sid7)      Join Date: Mar 2003       11-23-2003, 11:41 AM Reply   
"I think it comes down to surfing is a way of life and wakesurfing is just fun."

I realize you are just comparing surfing to wakesurfing...but if that comment were true then wakeboarding or wakeskating wouldnt be a way of life either or any other sport or extreme sport for that matter. it all comes down to what your into. If you do it, believe in it, love it and live it then it is a way of life. As is with anything.

The possibilities with anything are endless, you just have to be creative and imaginative.
All and all it comes down to the way it makes you feel inside and the rush it gives you as an individual.
Anyway thats just my 2 cents...and yes i have ocean surfed.
Old    BoRed (sdboardr99)      Join Date: Aug 2001       11-23-2003, 12:31 PM Reply   
I agree with you and at this point I don't know anyone that lives for wakesurfing. Wakeboarding and other extreme sports, yes. It's a way of life when in some ways it defines who you are. I can't imagine wakesurfing getting to that point, but who knows.

I've talked to several of my friends that are good surfers and they all agree that wakesurfing is a lot of fun. It doesn't compare to surfing in almost any way though. For most surfers being out in the ocean is very spiritual and they usually go alone - it's about them and the wave. Wakesurfing, like wakeboarding, is much more social and it's about having fun and laughing with your friends. Totally different environment and fun in different ways.
Old    Paul (paulsmith)      Join Date: Mar 2002       11-23-2003, 7:40 PM Reply   
Very well said Sid and Bill. Although, I personally enjoy surfing alone but also enjoy it being out with a friend or two. Nice to be able to chat a little while waiting for sets and hoot and holler at each other as we get a good wave. Still, I agree with the premise that wakesurfing is a much more social type of sport.

Today I was going down the line and dug in and made probably my best cut back ever (but still weak) and right as I was doing it this guy paddling out I don't know at all yells "yeah!" -- that was really cool.
Old    obsurfer            11-24-2003, 8:13 AM Reply   
Are you guys tripin?
Old    Paul (paulsmith)      Join Date: Mar 2002       11-24-2003, 9:27 AM Reply   
No, you?
Old    obsurfer            11-24-2003, 10:35 AM Reply   
Opps

(Message edited by obsurfer on November 24, 2003)
Old    Blabelmooch (blabel)      Join Date: Jul 2001       11-24-2003, 10:37 AM Reply   
The nail has been hit on the head.
Old    obsurfer            11-24-2003, 10:39 AM Reply   
It is starting to sound kind of like the sixties. A WAY OF LIFE! Spiritual. Come on. I get so tired of people asking me if I surf. I say no. Also because I am not that good. It lets me hear all the b.s. So I can get a good laugh. Go to blacks on a ten-foot day and you well see maybe five guys out. Not me. But go to a bar and you well here stories from all kinds of guys.(way of life surfers). “Way of life surfers" are like urban cowboys. Instead of a hat they bleach their head.
Andre you've got it. It takes a lot of drive to learn to surf. And you well get a lot of crap at the better spots. But if you keep it up in three maybe four years; you'll go out and charge a big six foot day all by yourself. And you well earn the respect of a lot of others. Talking and acting won't get you there. The will to survive could.
A real six foot day is 12 foot faces with an occasional 8 foot set. It is pretty big. Most places in the county start to close out at 8 feet. If you can handle 10 foot surf you are an animal. And really good that makes up only about half a percent of the surfers here.
Old    obsurfer            11-24-2003, 10:43 AM Reply   
I know i suck.
Old    Paul (paulsmith)      Join Date: Mar 2002       11-24-2003, 10:45 AM Reply   
Way of Life

To me that simply meant it gets into your life, not that someone is trying to be something they are not. I readily admit I suck, but that doesn't mean I'm any less addicted to surfing than anyone else and doesn't mean I don't have just as much right as anyone else to be out or be on a particular wave. I have now surfed 8 days straight because I want to, not because I want to be a "surfer" in the cultural sense.

Spiritual

I'm not someone most people would call "spiritual" in the "God" sense. But being out there does make me feel better and clears my head from all the BS on the other side of the beach. I think most sports can claim to do this for people that love them, and this one is really no different, although the environment really is like no other and that is part of it for me. Plus I've just always loved being in the water since I was a little kid.

I guess I think that "chip on the shoulder" surfers are as bad or worse than the "urban cowbay" surfers you describe. Its as if some surfers think the only "real" surfers are ones charging on "real six foot" days. Believe me, I get stoked seeing some shortboarder rip up an overhead wave in a big way. But I also get stoked seeing some guy hanging ten on a longboard in 2 ft slop, or a friend getting up for the first time. Its all good by me. I try not to judge (although we're all guilty of that at times).
Old    Paul (paulsmith)      Join Date: Mar 2002       11-24-2003, 11:30 AM Reply   
Steve, I really want to understand your point of view, so I hope you don't give up on me. I honestly don't get it. People in bars should not discuss surfing unless they charge 10 footers at Blacks?
Old    obsurfer            11-24-2003, 3:40 PM Reply   
Sorry its just the same for so long.I'm looking up to the good surfers and hate the dude/surfer thing. i get stoked watching new surfers. But I hate to see people start the zen,lifestyle,cool because I surf attitude. But surf is so hard to talk about because it all sounds the same, unless you know the guy is good. I know I live here at the beach because I like to surf but I just hate the bad vibe surfers seem to give off. And right away it seems I'm doing it too. I just like to see progression in the sport. If wakeboarding gets too crowded do you want only the guy with the biggest boat to win only.
All I'm trying to say is surf and progress don't surf and cop an attitude. Or talk and brag that you are better than everything else. (guy in bar so chicks hear him) I think (spirtual) and (way of life is) kinda getting me sick. Can I go call Ralph now.
Old    Paul (paulsmith)      Join Date: Mar 2002       11-24-2003, 3:51 PM Reply   
This whole thing is too complicated for me to figure out. I like to surf. I like to talk about surfing. There is nothing more to it than that for me. I'm certainly not trying to impress anyone.

I also understand what you are saying about a longboarder that goes out and paddles into every single wave that he or she can. But I do have to say after going out on my 7'10" this morning it is much easier to take off late on a shorter board than a longer one, so it seems natural to me that longboarders want to line up a little beyond where shortboarders prefer. That being said, what's needed is mutual respect where people take into account the number of waves and the number of people. I don't dig the whole competitive "I'm getting every wave I can" vibe out of either longboarders or shortboarders. Yesterday my favorite peak was unusually crowded and there was a decent shortboarder paddling into the peak of every damn wave and yelling other people off no matter what. So it can go both ways. The whole crowd thing gives me a headache which is why I am glad that for the most part the time/place that I go is not crowded at all.

Anyway, sorry the descriptions some people are using (spiritual/way of life) are making you ill. Hope you feel better soon.
Old    obsurfer            11-24-2003, 3:55 PM Reply   
Be modest and helpful. People don't learn when they are looking for their spirit and their lifestyle first.
Old    Paul (paulsmith)      Join Date: Mar 2002       11-24-2003, 4:13 PM Reply   
Shouldn't it be up to each individual what they want/get out of it?
Old    Christopher Stack (deepstructure)      Join Date: Jun 2002       11-24-2003, 4:18 PM Reply   
steve, sounds like you need to go surfing. then the posers mouthing off in bars won't bother you so much, or you won't be so prone to assume that folks just sharing the stoke are trying to make themselves cooler than they appear to be.
Old    obsurfer            11-24-2003, 11:59 PM Reply   
Yeah and I need a job!
Old    Paul (paulsmith)      Join Date: Mar 2002       11-25-2003, 9:53 AM Reply   
Yeah, but I thought working wasn't part of the surfing "way of life"?
Old    obsurfer            11-25-2003, 10:28 AM Reply   
Pray for surf!!!!
Old    obsurfer            11-28-2003, 5:41 PM Reply   
Come-on!!! Its not working
.http://cdip.ucsd.edu/models/san_diego.gif
Old    Jonathan French (rock_n_boardin)      Join Date: May 2003       12-01-2003, 1:36 PM Reply   
Have you ever returned from a day of Wakesurfing and your best ride was still in your head?

My best barrel ever was probably 10 years ago, but I can remember it like it was yesterday. North Side of the HB pier on a 8 foot plus day with howling Santa Ana winds. Everything from paddling into it, dropping in late because of the wind going up the face, immediately pulling in, slight back foot pressure to slow down, all the way to my buddy paddling up the shoulder hooting like no other!! To being shot out and going up on to the shoulder and back of the wave.

It's all in my head, the funny thing is it's in slow motion, time stands still when your in the barrel!
Old    GD (greatdane)      Join Date: Feb 2001       12-01-2003, 2:31 PM Reply   
You guys are getting me stoked for ocean surfing.
So far, I have only surfed behind the boat - wakeboarding knee troubles.

Wakesurfing was initially very ho-hum until we got the wave much bigger.
So, I imagine ocean surfing will dwarf my current wakesurfing experience.

surf_wake_behind_malibu_vlx

(Message edited by greatdane on December 01, 2003)
Old    Paul (paulsmith)      Join Date: Mar 2002       12-02-2003, 8:34 PM Reply   
Steve, your prayers may be answered. Surf forecast says 5-8ft with occasional 10fters Sat and Sun. You charging Black's?
Old    obsurfer            12-03-2003, 8:11 AM Reply   
I would just like to watch, thanks. I have never seen anybody surf 8 feet plus beach break. I have seen pictures of blacks that big and surfable.
Old    Blabelmooch (blabel)      Join Date: Jul 2001       12-03-2003, 8:18 AM Reply   
It's the Cliffs for me with the rest of San Diego (Weather Permitting). Ahhhh the new 7'4" finally gets waxed.
Old    obsurfer            12-03-2003, 8:04 PM Reply   
Blabelmooch have a drink after surfing. Than tell us you surfed 20ft cliffs.
Old    Blabelmooch (blabel)      Join Date: Jul 2001       12-03-2003, 8:22 PM Reply   
ha ha! Will do.
Old    obsurfer            12-04-2003, 9:33 AM Reply   
Good luck with the gun! (the 7'4")
Old    BoRed (sdboardr99)      Join Date: Aug 2001       12-04-2003, 7:19 PM Reply   
Paul, that forecast sounds a little small. CDIP is forecasting 15 foot swells for Saturday, 8 - 10 on Friday and Sunday.

http://cdip.ucsd.edu/models/forecast/fp_sdc_000.gif

Old    Paul (paulsmith)      Join Date: Mar 2002       12-04-2003, 8:28 PM Reply   
Bill, interesting, although I hope you saw the disclaimer at the top of that chart!

Was talking to a guy out at 15th today who was saying if you paddle out north of the usual spot there and then let the NW swell drift you toward the usual spot you can catch lefts all day even if its crowded. He says it holds up pretty well in the kind of size coming in this weekend. But from what I can tell from the comments here nowhere holds up other than Cliffs? I don't know, I think I'll spend some time wandering up and down the coast this weekend checking out the spots. Should be a good show.
Old    Cunning Linguist (jro)      Join Date: Sep 2002       12-05-2003, 2:13 PM Reply   
I agree with Jonathon,
I've only been surfing a few times but have been doing snow/wake board sports for 15 yrs. Last winter my wife and I went to Maui to visit her family and her uncle (A 20+ year surfer) took me to Ho'okepa, one of the best places on Maui, at 6 in the morning. I was scared to paddle out into but since it was only 4ft hawaiian I thought it couldn't be too bad since that is small for them. The power of the ocean was amazing and I caught a couple waves and it was incredible. So we went out the next day a little farther up the beach wher we had to paddle around a point. Caught one wave and couldn't get back out no matter how hard I tried (It was 5-6 ft Hawaiian that day). Ended up having to crawl out on the rocks and walk a quarter mile back to the truck with a hole in the bottom of my foot that took 8 stitches to sew up. The point of the story is I will never forget those two moments (Catching the first wave and getting slammed into the rocks) and there is no danger in wakesurfing. Thus there is no comparison
Old    obsurfer            12-05-2003, 5:29 PM Reply   
Thanks Cunning for not putting out another fish (surf b.s.)story. Sorry to hear you got hurt.Sounds like Uncle was trying to put the hurt on.Give him a tow at 28 plus.
Old    Cunning Linguist (jro)      Join Date: Sep 2002       12-08-2003, 2:04 PM Reply   
Yeah, cant wait till he comes to the mainland and tries wakeboarding....he is a great paddler but I want to see him paddle a mile back to shore while I turn double ups around him
Old    dyonisus            01-16-2004, 4:25 PM Reply   
I think each can be fun in its own right...
but then I have only surfed some small waves in malibu. I have yet to wakesurf, but living in Ontario, I know the only way to get better for the big waves of the North shore next xmas is to practice, what better way then wakesurfing...

Old    Arun Frances (poon)      Join Date: Dec 2001       01-16-2004, 5:40 PM Reply   
I like to kneeboard
Old    Alan Bogdanoff (alan_bogdanoff)      Join Date: Jan 2003       01-22-2004, 9:22 PM Reply   
Knee boarding rips!
Hey Arun, next time we go out let's just knee board the whole day - It's way more fun!
I'll also bring some tubes along so we can go tubing. I'll even bring my sled (fits 4 people - 7, if we have beers).
Old    Arun Frances (poon)      Join Date: Dec 2001       01-23-2004, 7:28 AM Reply   
I still have to wait a bit before getting back on a kneeboard since my knee is not fully recovered yet. I am definitely down for some sledding behind the boat.
Old    Blabelmooch (blabel)      Join Date: Jul 2001       01-23-2004, 7:29 AM Reply   
That's totally Phaaat dood.
Old    Arun Frances (poon)      Join Date: Dec 2001       01-23-2004, 7:37 AM Reply   
Blabel, you are more than welcome to come up and go sledding with us anytime!!!!! Its a hoot of fun or something like that.
Old    Blabelmooch (blabel)      Join Date: Jul 2001       01-23-2004, 7:41 AM Reply   
Yeah one of these days when I'm not surfboarding. I'm just getting so tubular on these extreme breakers that have been coming in.
Old    Arun Frances (poon)      Join Date: Dec 2001       01-23-2004, 8:05 AM Reply   
Oh duder, you been getting "Green Roomed" out on the breakers, totally bodacious. Surfboarding is fun, especially hotdoggin on a perfect point break.
Old    obsurfer            01-31-2004, 10:38 PM Reply   
you two kill me.I just get so stoked I on you two guys shredding. You two make me want to wiggle my butt on my kayak,in the knarly surf.
Old    oshensurfer (oshensurfer)      Join Date: May 2003       02-12-2004, 8:48 PM Reply   
There is no other sport quite like surfing that allows a person to ride the energy of the earth that spawned 1000 miles away with only one medium. Parasailing I suppose, but I don't think you really don't have to understand the energy to ride it in that sport...
Old    shannon            02-13-2004, 11:17 AM Reply   
For me there is a big difference between wakesurfing and surfing in the ocean.
I can't help but love the rush of a mass of water bigger than myself rushing at me while I paddle my little arms into it. Now that is awesome.
As for wakesurfing... Yeah it's a lot of fun when you can't get to the shore (being 3 hours away from the one thing you love sucks!)It's just not the same... still a lot of fun but completely different.... for me at least. Plus the boards are different. Wakesurf board is thinner... doesn't float as easily as a regular surfboard.I find it more fun to wakesurf with a regular short board that I use when I surf.

Nothing beats the ocean!
Old    Keith Capielo (keith_capielo)      Join Date: Mar 2004       03-19-2004, 12:05 PM Reply   
I read a lot of cool things above. Steve Pena said it best whaen comparing "way of life" surfers to urban cowboys. I have taught and coached surfing (ocean) for several years and have seen every type of character. It would be redundant to say nothing compares and blah, blah, blah so I have only this to say:
I have been ocean surfing all my life and you know what? Wakesurfing is pure fun, the way ocean surfing was inthe old days. Friends gatting together to ride some waves, hoot at eachother and learn from watching eachother. I was most impressed at how close you can observe other riders. When I was five feet from Bill Bryan or Drew Danielo as they rode, I learned a lot. As a coach of surfing, a boat could be a usefull tool. A surfer could actually hear their coach as they are riding so they could adjust their form. You could also get an up close look at how each board works by seeing how the water flows undeneath it. You can't do that in the ocean or from a pier. Also, average ocean rides are 3-8 seconds, plus you have to paddle and out position other surfers to get that one ride. Wakesurfing is like hours of surfing wrapped into a few runs. So for pure riding pleasure, wakesurfing is a lot loke snowboarding; more time is focused on the ride while ocean surfing is all about commitment to the journey and the great reward from hunting down and fighting for that great ride.

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