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Old    Mark Anderson (puckinshat)      Join Date: Sep 2003       11-04-2003, 10:50 AM Reply   
Just taking a poll, how many of you wear a helmet when you go out? Cause after a youth of 4 cuncussions, everytime I hit the water hard on the back of my head, im done for the day. Thats probably why I couldn't land an invert for the life of me, but can stomp 3's consitantly and am working on 5's
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       11-04-2003, 12:10 PM Reply   
In my opinion, helmets won't help you on the water. You're not hitting anything hard. Your brain is just getting skakin up. I don't think a helmet will minimize that. Cuncussions suck though. I know how it feels. 4 times is a lot though!
Old    Timothy (timmy)      Join Date: Jul 2001       11-04-2003, 12:25 PM Reply   
i agree with jarrod. more surface area is bad when hitting water. however it could protect you if board hits you or you smack your head with your arm, or run ashore or hit a slider.
Old    JB (jsan)      Join Date: Nov 2003       11-04-2003, 1:15 PM Reply   
I wear one most times I go out. I'm like you...lots of concussions. Two class 3s (just down from a coma) and four other mild ones throughout the years (motorcycle racing). I rarely break bones...but my head is a ground magnet for some reason. One wrong hit on the water (especially on the back of my head) and I'll get a mild concussion now. So I started wearing a helmet this past summer. Seems to help, even when hitting the water. I don't get the pounding headaches very often now. To each his own though. I ride with guys that wouldn't be caught dead wearing a helmet.
Old    wakeboard_iraq            11-04-2003, 1:56 PM Reply   
I wear a helmet and it took a good crack from the board once which saved my day.

Also, several times prior to wearing the hemet I took hard blows to the head which were hard enough to make me want to get out of the water - since wearing the helmet, there has only been one time that I have had my "bell rung" bad enough to get out of the water and that impact was to the face.

I highly recommend it.
Old    Christopher Stack (deepstructure)      Join Date: Jun 2002       11-04-2003, 3:04 PM Reply   
i completely disagree with tim and jrod about more surface area, and about water not being hard! although more surface can sometimes mean more impact, it can also mean a better distribution of force especially when its designed properly (in a curvature), which is key when protecting not just the head but the neck. i think what people fail to realize is that its not just direct impact you have to worry about, but movement of the brain in the skull.

a helmet helps distribute impact forces, which helps not only the direct shock wave that gets applied to the brain, but the amount of movement the head (not the brain), makes. this helps reduce the amount of stress on the neck muscles and the amount of force required to stop the head from moving, which in turn decreases the amount of force directly applied to the brain when it collides with the brain cavity walls as it rattles about in a high-impact crash.

i wear a helmet and its made a big difference on many a crash, especially whiplash type crashes. i havent rung my bell since i started wearing it and i've had many crashes that previously would have left me hurting. i've also found i haven't had any of those next-day-neck-aches that usually accompany those crashes.
Old    wakeboard_iraq            11-04-2003, 3:17 PM Reply   
well put Chris.
Old    C.I.E. J-Rod (jarrod)      Join Date: May 2003       11-04-2003, 3:26 PM Reply   
You contradicted yourself in the same sentence. We obvisouly agree that "more surface can sometimes mean more impact."

And that's all I'm trying to say. In (((most))) cases, I don't think it will help.
Old    wakeboard_iraq            11-04-2003, 3:33 PM Reply   
Does everybody agree that it would likely help prevent/reduce injury in more cases than it can cause/increase injury?(Other than cool points of course)
Old    Christopher Stack (deepstructure)      Join Date: Jun 2002       11-04-2003, 3:39 PM Reply   
i didnt contradict myself, sheesh! use some imagination.

if you were wearing a big flat stiff square board on your head and landed straight down head first, this would obviously be bad.

if you were wearing very hard stiff plastic molded in a curved surface around your head - this would be much better.

how is admitting that in certain situations more surface area can be bad a contradiction?
Old    Timothy (timmy)      Join Date: Jul 2001       11-04-2003, 4:22 PM Reply   
your head is curved, a helmet is curved, however the radius is larger than your head.

force = pressure/area.

helmet = larger radius = more area = more force.

more force = larger magnitude of deceleration = more brain bouncing around.

perhaps there is marginal benefit due to the fact that your skull is hard, and there is not much padding, while the helmet is more flexible with soft padding.

and that is not even mentioning a faceplant type crash where you not only get smacked but the chin strap yanks your neck back.

i think that wearing a helmet in open water is similar to buying a DNA board. more valuable in the psychological aspects than in actuality. if the helmet makes you "feel" better then go for it. i recommend those pro-tec helmets. i have one for slider action, as it distributes a point load (curved surface of head hitting solid flat surface of slider/kicker/etc) across your head instead of cracking your skull. anyway, the protec helmets are super comfy and you don't even realize it is on after a while.

also, having less 'bell ringers' might be directly related to feeling more comfortable on the water and riding improvements, also learning how to fall instinctually.

either way, this is an age old argument on this discussion board. this is why people say to search the archives.
Old    hitit            11-04-2003, 4:32 PM Reply   
If your worried about injury get and wear a helmet. What's $50 or $60 dollars. I saw a post on another site that a guy ended up dead from, a bad crash. It's not worth it to me. I'm wearing a helmet.
Old    veganx            11-04-2003, 4:41 PM Reply   
I've given myself a handful of minor concussions wakeboarding. All of which were while not wearing a helmet. I've taken similar falls to those that caused said concussions while wearing a helmet and walked away with nothing more than a slight headache.
Old    Mark Anderson (puckinshat)      Join Date: Sep 2003       11-04-2003, 5:05 PM Reply   
What brand do you guys wear? What do you guys think of the baseball-type ones Bonifay and his crew wear? Cause as you said hitit, whats $50? My old man has been trying to get me to wear one sence the day I stated, he can pay for it.
Old    Christopher Stack (deepstructure)      Join Date: Jun 2002       11-04-2003, 5:07 PM Reply   
sorry, but the benefits of a helmet aren't any more psychological when hitting the hard flat surface of water than they are when hitting the hard flat surface of a slider or kicker.

your equation is wrong: force = pressure times area. regardless, there's a point you're missing here. force is a vector quantity and thus must be calculated (at least in fluid dynamics), from multiple points. since pressure acts as perpendicular (normal), to the solid surface of an object, we sum up pressure over many sections of a curved object to determine a net force (sigma).

this can be represented by this equation:

F = (sigma)p * A * n

where F is aerodynamic force, (sigma)p is the sum pressure, A is area and n is normal (the direction of force).

thus, it is entirely possible to get a net sum of zero for the directions of normal, and thus no actualized force.

obviously this isn't usually the case, but it demonstrates how more (and more uniformly curved), surface area can result in less force applied to one's noggin when wearing a helmet than when not.
Old    rdierolf            11-04-2003, 5:59 PM Reply   
i dont understand chris. so does a helmet protect your head or no?
Old    Kung Fu Wake & Video (dcervenka)      Join Date: Sep 2002       11-04-2003, 6:09 PM Reply   
Yes and it helps reduce the "duuuuuuuh" factor after wrecking hard.
Old    holbywan            11-04-2003, 7:16 PM Reply   
Helmet for several reasons. Protects your head from objects such as stuff in the water (sticks, twicks, logs, dead guy that the Russian mafia ditched there), your board if it comes off (or partially comes off ie: one binding) and blown ear drums (must have ear flaps for that).

I proudly wear a helmet and am refered to by the locals at my riding spot as "Helmet Boy".
Old    steveaz            11-04-2003, 7:52 PM Reply   
I suppose if you want to really ANALize this, you're going to have to add to your equation the fact that most helmets are vented, therefore all the surface tension is not broken at the same time and a certain amount of decelleration takes place. For those that don't (like the Goth) the surface area is increased minimally. Oh, and don't forget to add the foam padding into your equation as well;-)
Old    Sean M (magic)      Join Date: Mar 2002       11-04-2003, 8:56 PM Reply   
Hi, name is Sean and I wear a helmet.
Old    Christopher Stack (deepstructure)      Join Date: Jun 2002       11-04-2003, 9:06 PM Reply   
lol sean!
Old    Kung Fu Wake & Video (dcervenka)      Join Date: Sep 2002       11-04-2003, 9:12 PM Reply   
Welcome Sean!


Old    Christopher Stack (deepstructure)      Join Date: Jun 2002       11-04-2003, 9:17 PM Reply   
oh right, forgetting my meeting etiquette! welcome sean! sorry 'bout that - still working on step 1...
Old    pretty_boy            11-04-2003, 9:31 PM Reply   
Even though I blew out my eardrum while wearing a helmet, I still totally stand for the helmet cause.

Dad says I landed on the side of my head and forced the flap up and away from my ear and that's why I blew out my eardrum.
Old    stormrider            11-04-2003, 9:34 PM Reply   
Chris, if I can hack into this system, I'm gonna change your user name to Spock! LOL
Old    English (kristian)      Join Date: Nov 2002       11-04-2003, 9:35 PM Reply   
Well now you'll just have to duct tape those flaps to your head, for future use.
Old    Timothy (timmy)      Join Date: Jul 2001       11-04-2003, 10:15 PM Reply   
whoops yeah i was thinking in my head of pressure = force/area which is the form i am used to seeing it in. blah

anyway, the sum of forces in a direction normal to the direction of travel could add to zero but if travelling into the water as a helmet does the reaction force along the direction of travel will not be zero if the helmet is moving at any velocity.

if you REALLY want I'll perform some simplified calcs, but i will not go so far as to do some FEA for you. haha
Old    lachlantait            11-04-2003, 11:37 PM Reply   
never worn a gelmet in my life, but then again ive just wake ridin but starting in about 2months we'll be hitting sliders so i might have to invest or just borrow i mates tsg!
i also do a fair bit of barefooting, never worn a helmet there either sorta hurts comming og at 50km/h wen your not ready for it!
does anyone where a helmet wen barefooting?
Old    Rod (rvh3)      Join Date: Jul 2003       11-05-2003, 8:01 AM Reply   
I'm confused again.... I'm going to E-Bay to look for a helmet.
Old    Timothy (timmy)      Join Date: Jul 2001       11-05-2003, 8:08 AM Reply   
lachlain, how you supposed to deep up with a helmet draggin in the water?
Old    Sean (canaday)      Join Date: Dec 2002       11-05-2003, 8:33 AM Reply   
If you want to look dorky that's fine, wear a helmet. Helmet's do help. It's more of the fact that there is padding inside the helmet, so your head will deccelerate into the water a little less quickly than without. The pain is from your brain slamming into your skull on impact.
Old    Sean (canaday)      Join Date: Dec 2002       11-05-2003, 8:33 AM Reply   
If you want to look dorky that's fine, wear a helmet. Helmet's do help. It's more of the fact that there is padding inside the helmet, so your head will deccelerate into the water a little less quickly than without. The pain is from your brain slamming into your skull on impact.
Old    soulrider (projectely4)      Join Date: Apr 2003       11-05-2003, 8:56 AM Reply   
about three years ago i cracked my head on my board doing a trick and i now i wear one most of the time i ride.
Old    jetgofish            11-05-2003, 10:25 AM Reply   
I think this was a thread about 4 months ago.

I wear a helmet when I ride! I've had way to many concussions to even count. Now that I ride with a helmet I've taken a ton of hard hits came up and got back on the board and rode. Those same hits should I not have had a helmet on would have knocked me out and put me in the hospital! Does a helmet work? Yes? What's the diffence between hitting your head on the water and hitting your head on the snow? Have you ever jumped from a 12 foot diving board head first? Hmmm, ever wonder why in Olympic diving meets they have the water squirting out under the diving board? This is to break the surface area, to keep it from being flat and glassy!

I typically won't ride without my helmet now! So what I might look stupid, but it's better than laying in a hospital bed with drool running out my mouth from a concussion!!!

Old    Jonathan French (rock_n_boardin)      Join Date: May 2003       11-05-2003, 10:44 AM Reply   
I got a great package deal, helmet and some cool waterski gloves. Yeahh!!! LOL

ok ok ok, just kidding...I agree with Jim and Chris, I really think a helmet helps in most cases.

A few weeks back I got a pretty good concussion, since then I wear the helmet. What was weird about the concussion was I was sore in a specific point on my head for a few days, just above the temple area. It was like I was hit with an object there. But I know for a fact I didn't hit anything but water. So I think that displacement of force does really happen with a helmet and it helps.

The only type of fall that I think the helmet might actually make worse is the whiplash type fall where you tweak your neck. Like everything there is a trade off, on occasion a seat belt or air bag in a car will kill someone. But in the majority of cases they save lives and reduce serious injuries.
Old    stormrider            11-05-2003, 10:46 AM Reply   
Or in your case, Sean, a helmet would make you look even more dorkier! LOL.
Old    Christopher Stack (deepstructure)      Join Date: Jun 2002       11-05-2003, 10:51 AM Reply   
actually teri, the reason for the spray in springboard diving is so the diver can more easily spot the water.

(Message edited by deepstructure on November 05, 2003)
Old    wakeboard_iraq            11-05-2003, 11:01 AM Reply   
Thanks for calling me a dork Sean haha. And I let you eat my whole bag of Ruffles chips and didnt say a word.
Old    hitit            11-05-2003, 11:42 AM Reply   
For all of you who don't think a helmet is cool. READ THIS!!!!

http://forums.wakeboarder.com/viewtopic.php?t=15969&highlight=sad+story
Old    jetgofish            11-05-2003, 12:40 PM Reply   
Christopher, I know the real reason why the spray the water under the boards, I's just seeing if ya 'all would catch that!

hitit - I read that post, it's very sad. Last season I took a really hard fall wake to wake and it knocked me unconcious in the water face down! This season, I've worn my helmet on 98% of my sets and when I don't wear the helmet, you won't find me going big! Not to long ago (4 weeks), I was wearing my helmet and went huge..I took a huge fall too, but needless to say when I came up I didn't know what hit me. I got home and slept for some 16 hours...my friends all partied around me while I was passed out on the couch not moving...If I hadn't had my helmet on, I would really hate to think where I might be right now!

Jonathan - you mentioned whiplash falls, in ever instance unless landing square on the top of your head you will receive a whiplash, which is a strain on the neck muscles. It's been described to me (concussions)like this: Think of your brain as a pin cushion filled with needles, only the pokey side is out then take another pin cushion that is the same way and slam them together. Every time you fall (either on water, snow, dirt, concrete etc.) you are doing this, in time the tissues become damaged beyond repair. Essential what is happening is the tissue is slamming into itself cutting it's self all up!!!

Look at Mohhammed Ali, who would have ever thought he would be like this from concussions? Surely not me. I guess my word to the wise is, protect your mellon you only have one. Even though it's water, it still can do damage! Think about this ... the boat is towing you at 21 mph, you make a cut and charge the wake, lets say you are now going 35 mph, you weigh 130 pounds and your wieght and speed increases during a crash, you've now accelorated to XX speed and you land on your head! OUCH.

I don't know, I know a lot of people have different opinions about helmets, but I know what mine is, I'd rather wear one than not, water and snow!


(Message edited by jetgofish on November 05, 2003)
Old    Cliff Griffin (seattle)      Join Date: Mar 2002       11-05-2003, 12:47 PM Reply   
The only problem I have with Sean's helmet wearing, is the fact that he refuses to take the thing off. It's just plain embarrassing whenever we go places with him.

Seriously,

I've taken some pretty severe crashes behind the boat lately, and if I weren't wearing a helmet, I'd be drooling all over my key board right now.
Old    Jonathan French (rock_n_boardin)      Join Date: May 2003       11-05-2003, 1:19 PM Reply   
Teri,

on the whiplash type falls, I am referring to the neck strain aspect of the crash, I feel that I have had more strain on my neck on a few crashed while wearing a helmet than maybe I would have if I didn't have a helmet on. Of course at the same time I believe it protected my head from maybe receiving a concussion during the same crash.

I hear ya Chris, of course I am drooling on my keyboard as I type, but that is a different story LOL Never mind LOL
Old    jetgofish            11-05-2003, 1:33 PM Reply   
Jon...have you experienced bucketing while wearing your helmet? It sounds like you might be refering to bucketing. I've only experienced bucketing with my helmet when I don't make full rotation on my back rolls or catch the heelside edge. I can totally understand the strains caused from this!

And why is it you are drooling...do share
Old    Someone Else (deltahoosier)      Join Date: Jun 2002       11-05-2003, 1:38 PM Reply   
On the helmet and whiplash aspect, I notice most people wear their helmets like a hockey player or some of the skateboarders. That is with the strap dangling loose below the chin. If you wear it that way and get in a whiplash type fall, the helmet will want to pull away from your head and increase the tension. If worn too loose, then it will move up too high to help on certain types of falls.
Old    Jonathan French (rock_n_boardin)      Join Date: May 2003       11-05-2003, 1:45 PM Reply   
Yep the dreaded healside edge, that is the one! Usually happens on spins. I think my last one was on a fakey "half cab?" HS 180. LOL Ouch, it was pretty bad water conditions, on a finless board, came off the wake real ugly and "landed" uglier! LOL

Drooling? I better keep my mouth shut on that one, by the way nice profile pic!

Cheers
Old    jetgofish            11-05-2003, 1:52 PM Reply   
I take it you don't want the other half to see that drooling nice profile pic comment!!!

Heelside gets you all the time!! I had that same issue with bucketing, now I wear my chin strap snug and I don't have that problem any more!
Old    Aaron Nielsen (lzyboy)      Join Date: Jun 2001       11-05-2003, 2:02 PM Reply   
Concussion FYI:

I am not sure if ALL of you understand the impact a concusion has on your brain both in the short and long term.

My Story
couple months ago, I was throwing a krypt in 2 feet of chop ( dumb idea i know ) and came up short. I was knocked out cold for 30 seconds, and my boys had to "baywatch" / Jump in and save me. Luckily I was face up and wearing USCGA vest. I had no idea where I was, who I was with. I was comnpletley out of it. To this day 12 weeks later I cannot remeber any events of that session and virtually the entire trip. I went to the hosspitial the following day and received a catscan that showed swelling in the right side of my brain, but nothing too abnormal.

For several weeks after the accidnet I had balance problems and now have somewhat of a lazy eye on my right eye which has affcted my vision. I was diagnosed wiht a very severe grade 2 / mild grade 3 concussion and told to take a minimum of 6-8 weeks off. I meet with a neurologist every 6 weeks for testing hopefully to avoid any permanent damage. Side effects currently include memorly loss, dizziness, headaches and can last in my case in upwards of 3 months.


Information given to me by the Nuerologist

Every time you get a concussion, your chances of permanent or more severe problems increase 3 fold.

Repeated concussions have the potential to leave athletes with permanent brain damage. It is hard to say exactly how, or what aspect of mental function may stay permanently damaged because every injury and player is different. Brain cell death as a result of repeated concussions and internal bleeding can leave a person unable to control certain muscles, or motions, with dysfunctional memory, or unable to process information. scientific evidence now shows that the effects of repeated concussions accumulate and actually affect your intelligence, emotions, and thinking ability for years to come. A history of repeated concussions have even been associated with Alzheimer's disease. Even mild concussions suffered repeatedly, though separated by months or years, can cause problems.


-= peace =-
Aaron}







Old    Jonathan French (rock_n_boardin)      Join Date: May 2003       11-05-2003, 2:06 PM Reply   
Other half?......ok, busted...you got that right!!

Just because your not hungy doesn't mean you can't look at the menu LOL right?

hmmmmmm I blame all the above comments on my cocussion from a few weeks ago, temporary insanity

I think I might have gotten some drain bramage!!!
Old    jetgofish            11-05-2003, 2:15 PM Reply   
Jon, no harm taken...thank you for the comment!

Aaron. I hope all is well and you are recovering properly...I know you don't ride with a helmet, but will this crash change your mind?
Old    doctor octagon (dococ)      Join Date: Mar 2002       11-05-2003, 2:38 PM Reply   
Aaron is right on the money with everything he wrote, and one additional piece of information is that every concussion a person gets serves to increase his or her risk for getting more concussions in the future. This is an area currently being studied pretty intensely by the neurological/medical community, and big sports organizations (like the NFL) have already taken notice and are employing doctors to monitor athletes at risk. One reason may be because, as Aaron pointed out, it is possible that damage being done now to nerves will not become noticeable or fully exert its effects until later on in a person's life, and organizations such as the NFL do not want to get sued over it when that day comes. We will see where this goes in the years to come, but it could potentially change the world of contact sports.
As for now, we should just recognize that concussions are not cool.
Old    stormrider            11-05-2003, 2:57 PM Reply   
Doctor Octagon: will use of a helmet, properly adjusted, while wakeboarding decrease the chances of concussions or decrease the severity of them? Any negatives with wearing a helmet?
Old    jetgofish            11-05-2003, 3:01 PM Reply   
Hey Doc O, I know Victoria's when I see it!!! You still riding?

Steven I was going to ask that very question!!
Old    Aaron Nielsen (lzyboy)      Join Date: Jun 2001       11-05-2003, 3:02 PM Reply   
Teri, Doc, Board,

Thnx. My headaches, dizziness, and balance issue have subsided but I still have a lingering lazy eye. . . I used to only ride/borrow a helmet when we hit sliders, but will be investing in one. . .

Steven - good ?
The doctor I spoke to said generally speaking yes, but could not provide me a 100% concrete annswer of YES or NO.
Old    stormrider            11-05-2003, 3:02 PM Reply   
Teri: great minds run in the same channels.

If that's you standing on the edge of the boat, you can ride with me any time you like.

On the other hand, if that's you driving, well, keep driving!!
Old    jetgofish            11-05-2003, 3:07 PM Reply   
Aaron, I know you've taken some hard falls, I've been there when you wacked your shoulder out of place, faceplanted on raileys and the whole nine! Aaron, glad to see you are smartin up and getting a helmet, but please get one for the snow too! I hope the lzy eye thing goes away too, just be patient and give it time!!!

Steven, great minds do think a like and yes that is me on the side of the boat, GOD NO that IS NOT me driving......Maybe I should do a little cuttin and edit that pic..if you ever make it to the Delta give me a shout!
Old    Lucky Charms (lchamaschuk)      Join Date: Feb 2002       11-05-2003, 3:43 PM Reply   
I had a bad concussion snowboarding - sat on the side of the hill and was completely out of it for about 10 minutes. Finally got up and had balance problems and dizziness. I had to manage to slide sideways slowly down the hill where my husband and friend were anxiously waiting (they were ahead of me and didn't know I'd fallen).

Ever since then, I've worn a helmet snowboarding and wakeboarding. I do not want to go through that again. Wearing a helmet isn't going to hurt my pride (it's part of the gear), and it's not worth my life to not wear one and 'take my chances'.

My husband took the concussion pretty seriously, and woke me up every hour that night (it's one of the recommended things to do) to see if I was ok. I have no recollection of that - not sure if it's because the concussion or because I was zonked out!
Old    wakeboard_iraq            11-05-2003, 3:44 PM Reply   
Steve - you'll get in trouble for that comment. Remember that pretty boy (name still kills me) reads this too. haha.
Old    wakeboard_iraq            11-05-2003, 3:46 PM Reply   
Lucky - You sure he wasnt waking you up for something else?
Old    doctor octagon (dococ)      Join Date: Mar 2002       11-05-2003, 5:30 PM Reply   
I am not aware of any studies that have looked at the effects of wakeboarding with or without helmets, so the degree of benefit might be difficult to quantify. However, common sense and experience in other contact sports suggests that the pros outweigh the cons, which is what most of the folks on this post have already been saying. Unlike some other contact sports, however, wakeboarders rarely hit anything solid (unless your're a jibber or manage to smash yourself with your board or with a knee - I've broken my jaw like this, and I know a guy in AZ with a titanium plate in his head from his knee smashing it). Anyway, it appears as though much of the head injury potential from wake boarding comes from the fact that you stop very quickly. For example, on a hard cut if the boat is going 22, you might be doing more than double that, say 45 or 50, and if you take a digger, you go to zero in about 1 second. That results in the brain (which is about the consistency of jello) slamming into the skull and bruising, then it rebounds off the front and slams into the back of the skull, possibly resulting in what is called an (additional) contra-coup injury. Then there is the further possibility of what is called axonal shearing, which simply means that the nerve fibers that allow various parts of the brain to communicate with one another and with the body can literally be ripped apart, and nerves generally show very little re-growth once they are damaged. If you look at the inside of a skull, there are bony plates above the eye sockets that are rough, almost like a cheese grater, and when you jostle the brain around, you can get all sorts of damage to these frontal areas of the brain, which are important for lots of different complex functions.
So all of this is just fancy talk to say that it is bad to get your brains jostled around too much. I'm guessing that possibly more than the hard shell, a wakeboarder wearing a helmet would benefit from the padding, as it would absorb a lot of the force of impact that otherwise would translate into "jello-like brain slams unpadded skull." Helmet padding absorbs impact force, and the hard shell theoretically also dissipates impact force, and impact force (especially over and over again) is the enemy of healthy brains. Again, this is all essentially just deductive reasoning on my part, since I am aware of no empirical studies have yet been conducted, and that is probably why Aaron's doctor was reluctant to make a definitive statement about the issue. But, I do study brain damage for a living, so there ya go.
Stormrider, the only serious potential drawback I can think of is the possibility of increased whiplash-type injuries if the helmet happens to scoop water - aka the so-called "bucket effect." But really, you never know what type of freak things can happen. Modern medicine is all about playing the odds, and I think one would be hard pressed to argue that you run better odds without a helmet. What a person does, however, is personal choice, at least for now...

Teri, yeah, was out with Fisher this past Sunday. I'll keep an eye out for you and your crew!
Old    beerdrnknboardr            11-05-2003, 6:32 PM Reply   
If we are planning to hit the slider we take, other than that i think i've only worn it when i already had a cut on my head, or because i was pretty buzzed
Old    Lucky Charms (lchamaschuk)      Join Date: Feb 2002       11-06-2003, 8:40 AM Reply   
Jim - if he did, I don't remember that either
Old    Jonathan French (rock_n_boardin)      Join Date: May 2003       11-06-2003, 9:06 AM Reply   
Doc.

I love the playing the odds analogy. Because that is really what it's all about. It is all about probabilities, if wearing a helmet helps you in 51% of falls, and hurts in 49% of falls then maybe you wouldn't wear a helmet. Maybe at that point you look at other factors, like in motorcycle helmets, using those odds they would counter with the fact that helmets block your vision and thus cause more accidents to begin with.

I remember the analogy with Corvettes, because of the fiberglass body people would say they are the worse cars to be in during a crash, but then someone would counter and say because of the superior handling, you would have a much better chance of avoiding the crash to begin with.

You could go on and on, it's pretty interesting stuff. Sorry to digress, but if you consistently play the odds that are in your favor throughout life, you will do much better. Just look at Vegas.

To bad there are not any studies for wakeboarding, but my guess is the odds on avoiding an injury while wearing a helmet would far out weigh, the odds if you don't wear one.

Old    wakeboard_iraq            11-06-2003, 9:19 AM Reply   
Its funny, I've noticed that most of the people that are against helmets in this thread are younger (20's). And the proponents of wearing helmets are older (various).

Reminds me of a saying that my father used to tell me when I was a kid, "Youth and enthusiasm vs. age and trechery". haha

I remember when I was young and indestructible - a year long back injury cured me of that misperception.

I look at video and/or pictures of me wakeboarding with the helmet and think that I look like a dork (thanks Canaday) but then I think, "I dont wash cars for a living anymore, I have to keep my one and only brain working". Then I dont feel so bad.
Old    wakeboard_iraq            11-06-2003, 9:34 AM Reply   
That would be "treachery" not trechery - one of these days I'll figure out how to edit my posts
Old    Kung Fu Wake & Video (dcervenka)      Join Date: Sep 2002       11-06-2003, 10:21 AM Reply   
""I dont wash cars for a living anymore, I have to keep my one and only brain working""

I hear that! Got to keep the money tree alive...
Old    Lucky Charms (lchamaschuk)      Join Date: Feb 2002       11-06-2003, 10:43 AM Reply   
Jim - I agree. There's been a big debate here over the past summer when our local municipality decided to institute a bylaw for mandatory helmets in the skateboard parks (after there have been several deaths of young skateboarders with no helmets falling and hitting their heads). They showed interviews with the kids, and while a small minority wore helmets, most had the attitude that "I know how to fall properly" and "it's not going to happen to me, I'm careful" and "helmets are gay" and so on. It just goes to show we need to start teaching at a very early age that helmets are ok. I'm still amazed at the parents who let their kids skateboard without a helmet.

I killed enough brain cells in my youth - I need everything I have left.
Old    andy zarlengo (colorider)      Join Date: Jun 2001       11-06-2003, 11:32 AM Reply   
I think one HUGE thing the ani-helmet people are missing is the fact that wakeboarding helmets have padding in them which absorbs some of the impact. Duh!!!!!!
Old    lachlantait            11-07-2003, 2:05 AM Reply   
okay time to delete this tread re hashed info and to longer explanations.
who gives its up to personal preference.
have dave theres a little button on your comp that says...... Delete
use it
Old    Cliff Griffin (seattle)      Join Date: Mar 2002       11-07-2003, 7:32 AM Reply   
Lachlan,

It literally hurts my brain, when trying to understand what the hell your attempting to convey.
Old    jetgofish            11-07-2003, 12:14 PM Reply   
Lachlan maybe you should read this as well as every one else

http://www.rockofroseville.org/people/Ryan-Shreve.html
Old    stormrider            11-07-2003, 12:40 PM Reply   
Wow, Teri, how totally and completely sad.

Lachlan, nobody questions your right to wear or to not wear a helmet. The issue on this thread is whether helmets can increase your odds of avoiding injury. Nothing is certain. My son blew out his eardrum even though he was wearing a helmet. I believe the consensus is, however, that wearing a helmet does decrease the odds of serious injury.

I do, however, think this topic should come up regularly-- as a reminder to us who have ridden awhile and as a newsflash to new riders. I'd hate to see somebody get hurt because of a lack of knowledge. What they choose to do with that knowledge is, of course, up to them.

Thanks, Teri, for posting the info on Ryan Shreve.
Old    Aaron Nielsen (lzyboy)      Join Date: Jun 2001       11-07-2003, 12:42 PM Reply   
R.I.P. Ryan

~ God Bless your family and loved ones ~

Old    Sean M (magic)      Join Date: Mar 2002       11-07-2003, 1:21 PM Reply   
Did any one notice the title of this thread?

"You wear a Helmet?" swass help me out here, should it not read "Do you wear a helmet?"

I could not let that one slip by.
Old    swass            11-07-2003, 1:49 PM Reply   
I have a hard enough time trying to get people to use apostrophes correctly.

I have to delegate some authority here: You are now in charge of editing titles. The pay sucks, but there's a certain amount of job satisfaction involved.


(Message edited by swass on November 07, 2003)
Old    Phantom (phantom5815)      Join Date: Jul 2002       11-07-2003, 3:48 PM Reply   
Now that I've given myself a migraine from reading all of this......
all I can say is that I don't like being called into the OR to operate on Brain damaged people....especially the under 30 crowd who WON'T WEAR A HELMET WHILE RIDING A DONORCYLE.
Regardless the impact surface of choice, the helmet will help decrease brain sloshing ( contrecoup). It also helps the skull from cracking and tearing up the Grey matter too.
Wear a helmet , Don't wear a helmet.....
It's not like your "friends or people" who are calling you a Dork will be there in supporting you for the rest of your life.
Old    doctor octagon (dococ)      Join Date: Mar 2002       11-07-2003, 4:06 PM Reply   
Finally, the phantom emerges!
As always, we appreciate your helpful comments!
(not to mention the spell check )

Swass, so whats you're point?
Old    lachlantait            11-07-2003, 4:06 PM Reply   
i wasnt trying to convey anything im just thinking that this is a boring thread.
diudnt mean to step on anyones toes if you feel strongly about the subject great if you dont thats fine
Old    doctor octagon (dococ)      Join Date: Mar 2002       11-07-2003, 4:10 PM Reply   
Maybe lachlan has a point.
Anybody know who is the tallest pro wakeboarder?
Old    Lizrd (lizrd)      Join Date: Jul 2002       11-07-2003, 4:33 PM Reply   
I'm joining the conversation late and here's my question-- are any of the currently available wakeboard helmets tested? I don't wear a helmet wakeboarding (unless I am at a contest - but I'm a novice and can hardly go W2W) but I won't get on my horse without one. My helmet for horseback riding is certified by ASTM and SEI. Do wakeboard helmets go through a similar testing program? Of course, helmets should be designed for different sports - for example horseback riding helmets are tested against a sharp anvil (resembling a blow from a hoof) and bicycle helmets are tested with a blunt anvil (resembling a rock).

Another idea which hasn't been commented on yet - do wakeboard helmets wear out? All of the literature that comes with a quality horseback riding helmet suggest that after one 'serious' impact, the cushioning foam is permanently and microscopically compromised and will not offer the same protection for subsequent falls. Is this true of wake helmets?
Old    Peter_C (peter_c)      Join Date: Sep 2001       11-07-2003, 11:43 PM Reply   
I come here now to hopefully confuse people even farther LOL
I have gotten a concussion wearing a Pro-Tec and my Gath. I still wear the Gath but will not be putting on a Pro-Tec again, too much bucketing effect.
My friend here was a newbie and could only jump heelside. A helmet would have prevented this injury. This has happened to alot of good riders too that I personally know. Stitches or staples are the end result so far.

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