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Old    deltahoosier            10-30-2003, 2:10 PM Reply   
I have had a couple of issues on my mind through the summer about Edging, Wide Boards and using fins to edge instead of actually edging.

I and most people have noticed a trend toward very wide boards in the past few years. I was wondering if going wider sooner for beginners was a bad thing.

I started on a board that was way too wide for me and I developed bad habits and could not progress. I finally got on a board that makes me use my edge and I have done more things in one season than I did in 3 plus years.

I notice a lot of beginners tend to ride flat and rely on their fins to get speed and hit the wake flat and just kind of ride over like a ramp and just get killed. Some people get really hurt the first time or two out due to this. We usually chalk it up to "paying your dues". If they do make it, they are horribly off balance.

I wonder if putting beginners on a wide board is really doing them justice or maybe take the fins off to make them learn to edge? I know that some may not have the satisfaction of clearing sooner, but, will it help them hit tricks sooner or maybe take it more up so the landing is not so fast and hard if they learn to edge? My experience says it may. I also notice beginner to intermediate riders as myself getting the wide boards before really learning tow side jumps and good balance in the air. They seem to rely on speed and the big board for air instead of a short approach and a good hard edge to go up and not out. I wonder if more people are hurting their toe side progression, switch riding or spins due to getting on a wider board before learning to edge?

Has anyone gone through this or noticed this? I was just having some general thoughts about this and was wondering what others think about their progression or helping others. Are center fins hurting more than helping for progression? Does a wide board really give you more air if you are truly on edge? I mean the edge of the board is in the water not the fins right?

Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.

(Message edited by deltahoosier on October 30, 2003)
Old    hyperlitenerd (hyperlitenrd)      Join Date: Jan 2003       10-30-2003, 2:44 PM Reply   
I know that my first board was wayyyyyyyyy to big for me, and the fins were too, know im having to learn how to edge, and not use fins, its tough, but im learning.

For another example my friend when she turns she just lays the board flat, and turns it side ways catches the back fin, and off she goes, its horrible, we all get nervous when she does that.
Old    Peter_C (peter_c)      Join Date: Sep 2001       10-30-2003, 6:59 PM Reply   
It's the board I swear it must be the board! There is no way it could be me :-)

Coming off a board with huge fins, and switching to a Premier changed the way I ride. Greg Nelson was a factor in alot of my riding changes as he also got me to start thinking more edge, faster boat speed, and less cut. All this equals less work, and being a lazy wakeboarder fits right in with me.

Today I still like my fins as a slightly out of control landing can be stuck. I ride a Byerly now, although slow it is working just fine for me. I do wish my board had a better edge hold and did not slip when ridden tail heavy.

I believe a beginner should ride a good setup from the begining and there is no such thing as a trainer board. Although some boards are better than others. Coaching is more important than the board. Tule training works well. This is when you force the rider to take a short cut by pulling the boat closer to one side of the levee. Shorter cuts mean less speed and more edge, which equals more control in the air.
Old    deltahoosier            10-30-2003, 8:35 PM Reply   
You definitely have that short cut and lots of edge thing going on Peter. I think you are one of the people that ride just like I imagin it should be.
Old    Levi Cress (levi)      Join Date: Feb 2001       10-31-2003, 6:02 PM Reply   
No kidding...I just scratched my head when I'd see you (Peter) barely even go outside the wake and the cut in and go big w/ hardly any cut. Big jerk! :-)
Old    veganx            11-01-2003, 10:49 AM Reply   
Rod, you're absolutely right. I would add one more thing to it, however. Beginners should ride with a small wake. This forces them to do everyting right. If they don't, they won't get any pop. It will help them learn to load the line, and stand tall at the wake. The first few years I rode were behind a small outboard with no weight. I also have the biggest, most consistent pop of all the people I ride with, and am usually the least tired after riding. It's not as much fun riding a small wake, but it will help you in the long run. Anyone can huck themselves at a big wake and get thrown up in the air, but this won't get you much past wake jumps.

Oh, I should add...small wakes also help beginners, because they can learn proper technique with out being imtimidated by the wake. Some people will purposly edge wrong because they're scared of the height they get when they do things correctly. Start them on a small wake and work up to larger wakes as their confidence grows.
Old    rtm            11-01-2003, 11:36 AM Reply   
I can't agree with you guys more. Most of my crew are average to decent riders and when we get a new rider out there I always cringe as I see them going a hundred miles an hour towards the wake absorbing it and soaring across it with barely any height and plenty of speed to easily cause an edge over injury.

I have a friend that I am going to try the finless technique mentioned above to see if this will help him break this bad habbit.

I think what happens is that new riders see most of the other riders charging at the wake (on edge of course) with the raley style cut unless spinning to take most ricks high and into the flats. Tell the new rider once or twice and even show them when your out there . . . but put them back on the board and it's right back to the same poor speady edgless form (usely thinking that they are doing what you are). SCARRY!! I think the fineless Idea is great!
Old    deltahoosier            11-03-2003, 9:57 AM Reply   
Hey Bird,

That is true about the wake thing too. I think I am going to take it all the way down for newbies too. You don't need crazy height for a beginner. If they edge the way the are suppose too and hit that big wake, it will freak the you know what out of them. I think I will head that way too.


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