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Old    Scot M Berner (scottyb)      Join Date: Sep 2002       09-16-2003, 11:17 AM Reply   
I am curious about the way that people think about hyperlite. I know they make a decent product, but its not the best. How many people actually bought there parks because it fits their riding style. I think of it like this: Hyperlite = Nike, Mcdonalds, ect...

Double up, CWB, Origin, Joyride, Obrien, Earthboard = Adidas, Puma, ect...

I was also thinking that wakeboarding has a predisposition against the mainstream so does that bring condemation to the top board company?


Just a thought or two.
Old    lucky            09-16-2003, 11:35 AM Reply   
Does that mean Liquid Force = Reebok?
Old    wakeboard_iraq            09-16-2003, 11:55 AM Reply   
Scott - I ride a Premier and my wife rides the Parks. I chose the Premier b/c I saw so many pros riding that specific board combined with the fact that I like a really loose board and the Premier fits that (without the center fin). However, I did not have any experience riding boards from other manufacturers.

I specifically wanted a Parks for her b/c she tends to track a little sideways on most boards and the Parks wont let her do that. So, I did specifically choose the Parks for her riding style. However, I would suspect that I am in the minority.
Old    ALee (aaronlee13)      Join Date: Jul 2001       09-16-2003, 12:07 PM Reply   
I hate Mcdonalds...
I just bought a CWB setup (still waiting on it) I bought it cuz it rides like i want a board to ride... fast with lots of pop... Every company has boards that have these characteristics.. I could of easily bought a the byerly, or the trip, or the nelson.. etc.. BUt it does come down to prefence of comapny, price and availability I think...
Old    David D (wakeguru)      Join Date: Feb 2003       09-16-2003, 12:55 PM Reply   
I'm not sure there's room for intelligent conversation on the topic, but here goes...
It is what it is.
I think Hype makes the best products.
Before you mainstream haters come calling, I'm not saying that the other top companies are not making good products - I'm just saying if you look at the whole package of goods, they have the best.
They obviously have the largest market share. Why is this?
Because they have the best marketing strategy? You can't be number one with just a great marketing strategy and not a great product to back it up. Do you think people go to McD's over BK because Jordan ate a Big Mac on national television regardless of what they're taste buds are telling them?
Or, is it because they have good riders and everyone wants to be like Mike so they buy their gear? Well if the gear was inferior, how would Hype's riders be any good? I guess if they learned to rip on other companies equipment and then signed with Hype...not likely.
I'll ride any company's product that I like - they don't pay my bills. I don't drive around town with a big Hyperlite sticker on my car and boat. I flat out don't give a snit what people think, I ride Hype cause I like it.
How ironic is it that the very attitude that mainstream haters embrace can be enstilled in someone who rides a Hyperlite?
Flame on, I'm going riding.
Old    Robert Thorson (thor)      Join Date: Oct 2001       09-16-2003, 1:06 PM Reply   
I bought the Belmont because Murray rides it in my detention video. I figure if he can do all of those tricks on that board then I should be able too as well. Right? Isn't that how it is supposed to work?
Old    Thane Dogg (thane_dogg)      Join Date: Jun 2002       09-16-2003, 1:11 PM Reply   
Hyperlite does have the largest market share. I don't know marketing so I don't know why. I don't think there are any companies out there that are inferior to any other company. Of course you have the big names out there, i.e. Hyperlite, Liquid Force, CWB, O'brien, but there are a lot of companies that aren't that mainstream that still make an awesome product. Origin, Joyride, GB, etc. Hyperlite and Liquid Force have the largest line-up of highly talented riders, but I don't think that makes these companies better than any other.

You could put any of the top guys on any board and any bindings and they would still rip it. If Earthboard had the payroll to sponsor Parks, Murray, Byerly, Sharpe, Grubb, Ruck and the rest of the HL team, people would ride Earthboard. Hyprelite is a great company and they have saturated the market. They know what they're doing and they make a good product. I'm for any company promoting the sport.

I ride a Substance and Belmonts. Go figure.
Old    Timothy (timmy)      Join Date: Jul 2001       09-16-2003, 1:15 PM Reply   
david you are a poser cause you have a hyperlite parks board. you are sold on their marketing.

earthboard could not get a large market share right now with as easy as their boards break.

how many of you hyperlite haters drive a correct craft? a mastercraft? a 'bu? hypocrites?
Old    Jeremy (shutupandboard)      Join Date: Aug 2002       09-16-2003, 1:25 PM Reply   
I could go for some micyds or burger king right now.
I bought my hyperlite board and bindings because they were hyperlite. Because that was all i knew at the time. Now i guess i would still be influenced a little by the top 2 mainsteam companies. But i would definatly buy what suits me now. Not just hyperlite or liquid force. It would be in order of what fits my style(not that i have any) and what I think looks cool. I do have a small hyperlite sticker on my truck, but that is only because i ride a hyperlite. When i switch so will the sticker and it doesn't have to be the company with the best marketing.
Old    lucky            09-16-2003, 1:27 PM Reply   
Tim, Is your ankel soar today or are you just cranky.
Old    David D (wakeguru)      Join Date: Feb 2003       09-16-2003, 1:30 PM Reply   
Tim, I'm getting in my Hyperlite sticker ridden truck right now to come up to Gainesville to personally kick you in the shin.
Old    David D (wakeguru)      Join Date: Feb 2003       09-16-2003, 1:41 PM Reply   
ha ha
Seriously now, I'm leaving and going riding behind my MC. And for the record, I didn't buy it because it says MC, but because it was the best boat my money could buy at the time.
ha ha
Check out the surf last night...
Old    hyperlitenerd (hyperlitenrd)      Join Date: Jan 2003       09-16-2003, 1:42 PM Reply   
I bought my hyperlite motive 134 cause i demoed a bunch of boards, and i liked it the best so i bought it.

Tim i think im confused on what your saying, you also have a parks board, or so says ur profile, but u say people r posers for having one?
Old    Timothy (timmy)      Join Date: Jul 2001       09-16-2003, 2:02 PM Reply   
chris, I know david personally, and I was being very sarcastic about him being a poser. he is not a poser. he wants to kick me in the shin, but it is bionic now so it will be hard to hurt.

I just think these hyperlite haters are wasting energy hating something so important to the sport.
Old    Christopher Stack (deepstructure)      Join Date: Jun 2002       09-16-2003, 4:52 PM Reply   

quote:

You can't be number one with just a great marketing strategy and not a great product to back it up. Do you think people go to McD's over BK because Jordan ate a Big Mac on national television regardless of what they're taste buds are telling them?




i don't think that you have to have the best product if you have michael jordan as your rep. yes i think it would be tough to get away with having a seriously inferior product, but vhs vs beta is a prime example of market share wining over product quality. there are many other examples. had vhs been a serious defective product no amount of market share would have helped imho. at least not in the long run. that's why bad movies don't screen for critics first!


quote:

earthboard could not get a large market share right now with as easy as their boards break.




i find this interesting - what percentage of people who buy boards are actually hitting double-ups or sliders? probably not anywhere near the majority, so i question whether this is a major factor. it would most likely affect getting professional endorsement of your product and high-level reviews, but i consider myself an avid intermediate wakeboarder and i've only once hit sliders and that was at owc with a rented board.

i believe the majority of wakeboards are being ridden by folks that only ride a few times a year during the summer and don't hit either sliders or d/u's. those that participate in a online forum on a wakeboard specific site probably aren't well representative of the general wakeboarding populace.
Old    Timothy (timmy)      Join Date: Jul 2001       09-16-2003, 5:00 PM Reply   
the experience I have with earthboard is a novice friend (no w2w) that broke it their first day out. the thing just tore apart.
Old    David D (wakeguru)      Join Date: Feb 2003       09-17-2003, 6:30 AM Reply   
Great analogy Chris, but It's a little different with your example cause the end result is identical - the movie plays all the same, but I would definately agree that the size of the comapny, marketing and market share played a huge role in your example.
True, having MJ as your rep is a big score just as having Parks on your side is a huge advantage, but in the burger joint or wakeboard company examples the company with the greater market share got there because they had the better product and not just better marketing IMO.
I guess one could ask the question; did better marketing early on lead to the greater market share and better products? Could be, the revenue generated early if used properly could have made the difference. The company as a whole has done better than others in the industry and I would agree that the product is only one facet of how they got it done. Marketing and management had an impact, but the greatest was how that board and boots felt when you layed it down on the outside and blasted it off the wake. Yeah.
Old    Kirk (kirk)      Join Date: May 2003       09-17-2003, 7:17 AM Reply   
I think that probably 70% of the boards sold out there are because:
1. They liked the graphics( maybe it matched
the boat...)
2. A Pro they liked uses or endorses that board.
3. It's a Hyperlight...

I wonder how many people actually demo or ride a particular board before purchasing? I have a buddy that had a wakeboard shop and I demo'ed 7-8 boards before purchasing one that fit my riding style.
Damn... it doesnt match my boat....
Old    Barry Waste (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       09-17-2003, 8:47 AM Reply   
Quote:
Because they have the best marketing strategy? You can't be number one with just a great marketing strategy and not a great product to back it up.
You sure can! Take a look at Fram oil filters, they outsell all other brands 4-to-1. If you cut one open you'll see how little filter material they use, their end caps are cardboard and construction is poor at best.

B-
Old    warlock00            09-17-2003, 9:04 AM Reply   
good call Barry Fram sucks for sure.

I think Hyperlite sell more boards because Kirk's top 2 reasons and the fact that hyperlite is sold almost everywhere. I mean here in San Angelo we have 2 places that sell boards, one sells CWB, but is always way over priced, and the other sells hyperlite. That is the only 2 choices we have to buy local. So there is no option to demo any other type of boards. I am sure it is the same in other smaller cities like San Angelo. I would love to be able to demo a mutiny, or campus, or cassett wakeskate, but it is just not an option for me. So I go with what I can demo, which is hyperlite.
Old    David D (wakeguru)      Join Date: Feb 2003       09-17-2003, 9:39 AM Reply   
Good example Barry.
The grip on it, regardless of all of the other qualities, does set it apart and aids in the installation and for do it yourself mechanics that's important cause it eliminates the need for an oil filter wrench. As for the quality, do you honestly think if the filter didn't perform they would still be #1?
Old    Barry Waste (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       09-17-2003, 10:08 AM Reply   
Well,
if you put your oil filter on right to begin with, you wouldn't need a wrench.
________________________________________________
As for the quality, do you honestly think if the filter didn't perform they would still be #1?
________________________________________________

Yes! here's why,
Most people will never see how well an oil filter works and have no way of testing it(as we do with wakeboards)against other type/brands. The truth is, an oil filter is a very small component of a large machine..People are buying Fram because they *believe* that their filters are the best due to brilliant marketing..also, people stick with what they know(or think they know in this case), they'll continue to buy the same brand they always have making Fram #1.

B-

Old    warlock00            09-17-2003, 10:44 AM Reply   
Barry is right on this. Cut open a fram filter, then cut open a wix, or ac or something and look at the insides of the filter. There will only be half the stuff inside the fram compared to the others.

(Message edited by warlock00 on September 17, 2003)
Old    gotilla1            09-17-2003, 11:04 AM Reply   
Hyperlite has lifetime warranty on all foam boards and a two year warranty on all bindings. Until anyone else stands behind their products like this there is no comparison.
Old    David D (wakeguru)      Join Date: Feb 2003       09-17-2003, 11:04 AM Reply   
If most people have no way of testing how good the Fram filter is, how do you know any different? Just by looking at it?
You say they have less filter material etc., but what are you comparing it to?
I'm just trying to find out how you could tell the quality of an oil filter just by looking at the construction. Are you familair with the construction of other brands and how it affects performance?
I find it hard to believe that a sub-standard oil filter could be #1 because of marketing.

By the way Barry I'm not just asking these questions because I like to argue - I buy Fram for my boat because of the handy grip. Am I a sucker? Easy now ;-> What brand do you use?
Old    David D (wakeguru)      Join Date: Feb 2003       09-17-2003, 11:11 AM Reply   
OK, sorry to babble on about Fram oil filters. Maybe I should pose the question in the Boats section.
You've got Jason on your side and now it's two against one I guess I'll have to pack it up.
What oil filter should I buy for the boat?

Oh, good point Todd.
Old    Barry Waste (barry)      Join Date: Apr 2002       09-17-2003, 12:13 PM Reply   
David,
So that I don't hi-jack this thread more then I already have.. see boat section.

Todd, agree.. that is a good point.

B-
Old    Reaves (02byerly132)      Join Date: Jan 2003       09-17-2003, 5:47 PM Reply   
I ride hyperlite.. hyperlite is all ive ever owned starting with murrays 137 fluid, to 02' byerly 132, to an 03' belmont 136 dna.. i got my boards b/c i like the way they ride.. i have ridden a 03' cwb absolute platinum and it rode very well.. i like my hyperlites better though.. just my $.02
Old    Scot M Berner (scottyb)      Join Date: Sep 2002       09-17-2003, 9:08 PM Reply   
I think peoples loyalty stays with the first board that they buy. Although my first was a cwb and my second was a Double up. I think everyone should ride what they like i just think that some of the smaller board company's inovation goes unnoticed.
Old    upupnaway            09-18-2003, 9:35 AM Reply   
I bought my parks because it was the closest board to perfect I could find for my style, (plus it seems to intimidate beginners so I do not have to share). I wound up with parks bindings as well. I approached my salesman with these two requirements. I want bindings with a ton of padding, and I want the ankles to be as flexible as can be. Parks bindings happen to be just what the doctor ordered.

As far as hyperlite not being the best, well, that is a person by person choice. I think they are the best because they produce a board that gives me exactly what fits me, whereas no other board companies had what I was looking for last year.
As for the McD's comparison, I am not a person to fall for marketing in any way shape or form. For instance, I look forward to the coors light "twins" commercials every sunday during the football season, But I would never be able to drink a full bottle of that putrid lizard spit if you paid me.
Old    Jeremy (shutupandboard)      Join Date: Aug 2002       09-18-2003, 10:04 AM Reply   
Mike, just so you know coors light is not "in". PBR and truckers hats are in.
Old    upupnaway            09-18-2003, 10:08 AM Reply   
As to the predisposition to shun the mainstream, I came up with a theory involving that very thing in high school.
I did a project where, over the course of a month, I visited the houses of 15 of my metalhead friends. I waited for a moment alone and checked their cassette(OLD SCHOOL!) collections for 3 different bands, Poison, Warrant, and Jon Bon-jovi.
After checking and finding that 15 of 15 had at least 2 of the above mentioned bands in their collections, and 13 of 15 had all 3, I gave 25 people a list of album titles and asked them to go home and check off any of these that they had for a project I was doing. After discarding the 10 that I had not previously checked, I was not surprised to find that only 3 of 15 dared list the "poser" bands. (In my hypothesis, I had guessed less than 50% would list them) Out of the 15 people, 13 of them checked off South of Heaven by slayer, which was actually only owned by 3 of them. When asked to check off what tapes they would like to own, nobody added the 3 hair bands.
My conclusion was this. The "poser" bands were seen as a gateways from pop to metal. Your typical high school kid is so dependant on their "image", that it would be a tragedy to reveal a liking for a poser band, because that would make them seem much less hard core. By publicly shunning the top 40 bands, And pumping up the heavier bands, they hope to put across the illusion that they are journeymen metalheads that have no time to listen to the wussy stuff.
I believe that while many people love the less popular brands, there is a very vocal percentage that will shun hyperlite because they are the poser boards that newbies by due to lack of in-depth knowledge.


Old    upupnaway            09-18-2003, 10:10 AM Reply   
Oh jeez.....pbr.....my first real teenage drunk was pbr. I think a 40 oz. was 56 cents.
Old    Timothy (timmy)      Join Date: Jul 2001       09-18-2003, 10:19 AM Reply   
mike, you hit the nail on the head with this one. the guys trying to act 'core' on the boards are the ones doggin on the big name brands. and if they knew where the money came from on the 'grass roots' or 'core' brands they probably would realize that they are no more 'core' than the big brands.
Old    lakesideluver            09-18-2003, 1:42 PM Reply   
i agree with mike, my first board was a cwb (now a slider board) but i would totally buy an absolute, i now ride a tfd and i love it purely for the way it lands....where some would slip out.....i would luv to ride a byerly for the extra pop and surfer feel for surface tricks which the tfd is not great at...in other words all boards are great for certain things....my cwb....mike you saw that piece....cant pop for nothing but its a great slider board...long and flat....my .02 anyways....but i do personally feel that hyperlite puts more money into research and innovation, and im sticking with them purely for the fact that the shop is less than five mins from my place....that shop gets me out riding with a pro for free twice a year.....and they instantly swap out anything i have a problem with
Old    MATT (mattbob)      Join Date: Jan 2003       09-19-2003, 11:38 AM Reply   
Can't we all be "core" wakeboarders.
If I rode an earthboard with my own homemade hemp board shorts and bindings that I created from an old garden hose would I be core?
The people who consider themselves to be core wakeboarders just want to be different.
I ride a Byerly because I know the board rides good. I don't have the option of test riding lots of boards and I don't have the money to buy another board if this one sucks. I bought a board that I knew would perform.

I may be a poser but at least I'm posing six feet above the water.
Old    lakesideluver            09-20-2003, 2:49 PM Reply   
funny how hyperlite gets so much attention both yea and nay.....they gotta be doing something right huh?
Old    Greg Davis (vortech347)      Join Date: Aug 2000       09-20-2003, 5:05 PM Reply   
"but vhs vs beta is a prime example of market share wining over product quality. there are many other examples. had vhs been a serious defective product no amount of market share would have helped imho. at least not in the long run."

Not entirely true. The main reason vhs won over beta is because Sony required a very large licensing fee for any other company to produce beta products. VHS won because it was cheaper for manufacturers and the film companies to produce movies and vcr's in vhs format. Sony cut their own throat. VHS won due to a terrible marketing strategy and we have all paid for it in inferior picture quality.

The funny thing about people dogging HL saying their are too mainstream is that HL is not that big of a company. Remember this is a niche market. The overwhelming majority of people in America, the even more so the World, are not into watersports.

Old    tfdhyprider            09-20-2003, 6:41 PM Reply   
hyperlite has just proven itself over and over that there boards do hold up no doubt...and have u looked at their pro team atleats one of those guys is on the podium at every event they are at. I like my tfd cause its fits my riding. Ive ridin mutltiple cwbs' too and liked a couple of there boards as well there good boards too i rode a obrien that wasnt bad. I like the riders for hyperlite too so why not ride there board.
Old    xtremebordgurl            09-20-2003, 7:08 PM Reply   
haven't really read the whole post, and while I must admit I am a loyal hyperlite buyer, I think Marketing has defenitly made the company. Define quality. What you think is quality and what I think is quality are two differnt things, but then you get someone that TELLS you, what quality is, and you believe it. Think about it, has anyone noticed how heavy their hyperlite set up is compared to say CWB or any other companies? Hyperlite is defenitly one of the heaviest board companies I have seen. I got into hyperlite because when I was first getting into wakeboarding I thought they were the best just because they were everywhere and all my fav pros rode hyperlite. Now that I know that no one board is better than another, that it all comes down to preference, I'm trying to have an open mind and try some other company products but its hard cause I am biased, I love hyperlite. Period.

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