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Old    Ian Moore (imoore)      Join Date: Oct 2010       12-05-2017, 4:32 PM Reply   
The 2018 AutoWake System is standard on all Supraís and optional on the Moomba line (Standard on Mojo Pro). There is no replacement for displacement. When you calibrate your AutoWake for maximum wake size the system will automatically fill all of the ballast to the highest capacity. It considers how much total weight is in the boat, including passengers. When the boat realizes that there is too much weight on one side the AutoWake system will prompt you to move passengers. If no changes to the roll of the boat are made, the system will drain ballast to level out your vessel. This is not a complicated system. AutoWake can teach you how to be a better boat driver for wakesurfing, wakeboarding, and waterskiing.

Old    Eric (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       12-06-2017, 8:30 AM Reply   
Moomba/Supra is pretty popular on my lake, because it is the only brand with an on-lake dealer. I have 2 buddies with the original autowake. One is an SE, and the other is a Moomba Craz. And also 1 with autowake 2 in his 2018 Helix.

Sorry, but after extensive running with both systems, we shut them all off. The fact that it interferes has actually only been a PITA.

That said, we know how to distribute passengers easy, and set the boats up. For us, it is super easy. I can see this system being a benefit for a completely ignorant driver that knows nothing about setting up for tow sports. It will help get them "good enough" at the touch of a button. For all of us, it is more of a downside than anything.....
Old    Scott (scottb7)      Join Date: Oct 2012       12-06-2017, 12:25 PM Reply   
yeah, i was kind of wondering how it works in real life, when you have to see the wake, look at wind direction, etc...but i would love to have the 2 pumps per tank to fill and empty faster.
Old    B (fullspeed)      Join Date: Oct 2005       12-07-2017, 1:19 PM Reply   
For most of us on Wake World I can assume that Autowake would not be used often since we probably know to move people around the boat to balance the boat/wake. BUT the funny thing is most of us on Wake World are probably the owner of the boat or at least one of the drivers of the boat you're in.

As for me I am always the main driver and when it is my turn to get behind my boat, my wife drives. Her directing traffic inside the boat to where people need to seat to make the best wake is not a priority to her. The stereo volume or music played is also not a factor. It is driving safely and not getting water in the bow when picking me backup seems to be her only focus. I am always pointing to people in the boat while trying to wakeboard to have them move across the boat or to go up front. It is a pain in the butt for me at times. I think the Autowake could help those in my shoes. I do agree it is not a major selling point for me when looking at new boats, but kinda nice to have I guess. Doesn't Tige have some sort of Autowake feature too? I could be wrong.
Old    Matt Zelenik (mlzelenik)      Join Date: Apr 2016       12-07-2017, 1:49 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fullspeed View Post

As for me I am always the main driver and when it is my turn to get behind my boat, my wife drives. Her directing traffic inside the boat to where people need to seat to make the best wake is not a priority to her. The stereo volume or music played is also not a factor. It is driving safely and not getting water in the bow when picking me backup seems to be her only focus. I am always pointing to people in the boat while trying to wakeboard to have them move across the boat or to go up front. It is a pain in the butt for me at times. I think the Autowake could help those in my shoes. I do agree it is not a major selling point for me when looking at new boats, but kinda nice to have I guess. Doesn't Tige have some sort of Autowake feature too? I could be wrong.
Very true. I'm always directing people around, whether I'm driving or directing from the end of the rope haha. No one else seems to care much.

If we have a crew of 5 or more I make someone sit by the cabin stereo controller and make them DJ and adjust volume. Makes focusing on the pickup on busy days much easier
Old    Jon Allen (jon_a)      Join Date: Feb 2003       12-07-2017, 2:20 PM Reply   
I would encourage everybody to go on a demo with a knowledgeable dealer using the 2018 AutoWake system. There has been some huge enhancements and additions to the system that will benefit everyone, from the beginner up to the pro rider.
Old    B (fullspeed)      Join Date: Oct 2005       12-07-2017, 2:53 PM Reply   
Jon this is a forum....do tell. "There has been some huge enhancements and additions to the system that will benefit everyone, from the beginner up to the pro rider."
Old    Spencer (spencerwm)      Join Date: Feb 2009       12-07-2017, 3:38 PM Reply   
I found that AutoWake did not work until the 2018 boats were offered with the upgraded ballast system featuring two Jabsco pumps per bag. Last year the system was not fast enough to keep up with the data coming in. By the time the water started to move it was too late. Now you don't have to tell lazy Tom to get up and move so little Timmy can land his signature toe side off axis 180. Thanks iMoorehead for the video.
Old    Darren Lamont (83Starsnstripes)      Join Date: Jul 2013       12-07-2017, 5:18 PM Reply   
Just got off the water in the new SL. The new Autowake system is absolutely awesome! We had 7 people on the boat, filled the ballast once and turned on Autowake. I didn't have to tell people where to sit or mess with the ballast once. It was a really nice driving experience. Oh the wave was killer too
Old    B (fullspeed)      Join Date: Oct 2005       12-07-2017, 5:44 PM Reply   
Darren,
Pictures, videos and more detail on the SL. I am drooling over this boat. lol
My wife thinks I am spending too much time on my cell designing boats, especially Supra SL models.
Old    Matt Brown (mattbrown)      Join Date: Dec 2017       12-08-2017, 1:46 PM Reply   
Hey guys. I am Matt Brown and I am the Moomba product manager and I would love to answer any questions you have about AutoWake. B, to answer your questions, we really have 2 major changes for AutoWake for 2018. The first is the addition of a draft sensor. The draft sensor is patented technology that allows us to estimate your total displacement (total ballast, passengers, gear) in the boat at anytime. The software uses the draft sensor along with the pitch and roll so we can estimate how much total weight is in the boat and where it is located. We then display this information is what we call our amplitude display. The display is also patent pending, but it is the first display of its kind that can tell you exactly how much weight you are displacing every day. As most of you know, this can be the most frustrating part of "setting up boats". On Saturday when you have 8 passengers, you have one type of setup. But on Sunday, when you only have 3 passengers, you have to find a new setup. Plus, it is hard to know exactly how much weight you are displacing when you try and estimate passenger weights, water weight in additional bags, etc. With the new amplitude display and draft sensor, all that guess work is taken out and you can see exactly how much you are displacing every day. The other major change for Autowake 2, is we have now added predictive state technology. Through lots of testing, we can now estimate where the boat needs to be sitting at a static state to equal where we want the boat to be at a dynamic state. Again, this technology is also patented, but where this really is nice is you really don't have to run that boat anymore to see how the wave or wake looks. Let AutoWake do it's thing and the predictive state will get you very close to the pitch and roll you desire. Then the system will react to get it fine tuned even better. I will let that all digest and then if you have any questions, let me know and I will try and help.
Old    Scott (scottb7)      Join Date: Oct 2012       12-08-2017, 10:59 PM Reply   
Sounds good in theory. Hope it works! Thanks for explaining. These days so much technology -not limited to boats - is rolled out before things really work. Then a year or two later it becomes a reality.
Old    Vee Drive (rexlex01)      Join Date: Mar 2010       12-09-2017, 6:56 AM Reply   
Does Autowake adjust for variable lake levels down to 8 or 10 feet?
Old     (dakota4ce)      Join Date: Oct 2015       12-09-2017, 10:19 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by rexlex01 View Post
Does Autowake adjust for variable lake levels down to 8 or 10 feet?


What does this question mean?
Old    Eric (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       12-09-2017, 3:00 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by rexlex01 View Post
Does Autowake adjust for variable lake levels down to 8 or 10 feet?
Absolutely. If you get into shallow water like 8-10 feet, just hit a button on the screen, and the lake will go to a minimum of 15 feet deep for you.
Old     (dakota4ce)      Join Date: Oct 2015       12-09-2017, 5:24 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixable View Post
Absolutely. If you get into shallow water like 8-10 feet, just hit a button on the screen, and the lake will go to a minimum of 15 feet deep for you.


^^🤣 I was afraid that might actually be the intent of the question. But benefit of the doubt led me to asking for clarification.....that system could be called AutoLake instead of AutoWake?
Old    Matt Brown (mattbrown)      Join Date: Dec 2017       12-11-2017, 12:10 PM Reply   
Scott, I hope you can check out AutoWake soon and let me know how you think it works. I agree that many times marketing of a product or a technology can misrepresent what the product really is. But in this case, I hope that our product really does what it says it does. We launched it last year for the 2017 models and like I explained above, we have made many improvements to the software for 2018. Our hopes is that every year we continue to improve the software and soon people will think that the Moomba and Supra brands are the Smartest Boats on the Water! At least that is the plan. Since you asked several questions about how it really works, let me try a different approach of explaining the need for AutoWake. Over the last 10 years, boats have gotten way more complicated. In the slalom ski days or wakeboarding days, all you really had to do was either displace very little water (ski) or displace a lot of water (wake) and then keep the boat balanced side to side. That was fairly simple because most people enjoying those disciplines also had quite a bit of experience and most passengers knew they had to move around in the boat to keep the boat level. Surfing is just the opposite. Because it is such a fun and easy sport to participate in, we are now seeing people that have never owned inboards buying boats just to surf. In addition to that, surfing adds a ton more complexity because now every manufacturer has surf systems, ballast systems, and complex dash interfaces that can be extremely intimidating when you first look at them. In addition to that, to create a surf wave, every boat seems to be different and many times it seems like based on the conditions and passengers, you have to "find" the correct setup of the day. Again, add in the lack of experience of many new owners and you can see why so many consumers are left frustrated. If you don't believe this, just scroll over to the wakesurf section on this forum or any forum and you can see this every day. Before AutoWake, the only fix was experience and experienced drivers who knew how to control all the variables and make a successful wave every time out. The driver basically had to control everything and tell the boat what to do. AutoWake is the exact opposite mentality. With AutoWake, we are trying to let the boat tell the driver exactly what is really going on. With the new changes in AutoWake, the boat can now tell the driver exactly how much water the boat is displacing (which is by far the most important variable!), the boat can tell the driver what pitch the boat is running, what roll the boat is leaned at, and how each variable of the boat is currently setup (ballast, plates, speed, and yes even depth). AutoWake is also trying to correct these variables automatically, and duplicate the same wave that you had the previous day, but even for the most experienced drivers out there, AutoWake can even make you a MORE experienced driver. That is what we are trying to do with AutoWake. Yes, we are trying to make boats less intimidating and easier to drive for the inexperienced drivers. But we are also trying to make the most experienced drivers even better. Hope that makes sense and gives you a better idea of what we are trying to accomplish with AutoWake. It is not just another gimmick we are trying to use to sell boats. We really think it is a technology that will make owning boats way less frustrating.
Old    Eric (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       12-11-2017, 12:35 PM Reply   
^ I definitely think a whole lot of that applies for a lot of the typical new consumer type for these boats.

I personally don’t think it takes any more experience to setup the average surf, than it does for wake, but that might just depend on how picky you are with each sport. Autowake definitely has advantages for inexperienced drivers..... I wish Autowake also included other functions that those inexperienced drivers need..... ie. automatically keep the boat 300 feet from shorelines, 100 feet from other boats, and automatically make course corrections according to navigation laws.....

Some boats are also different than others. I know of certain models that you really gotta try hard to mess up the wave. They are simple push button and go, and a wide range of weight conditions don’t have much of an effect on the wave. And then I also know of boats that are so finicky, that moving one person can mess the wave up entirely. Quite a few boats out there that don’t need something like Autowake, and quite a few out there that really do.

Ironically, most of the Supras and Moombas I have been in, Are not the super finicky type that really need something like Autowake. Usually all we have found, is that they need more ballast than stock, and most of them benefit greatly from offset rear weight of about 300-400 lbs on the surf side.
Old    Matt Brown (mattbrown)      Join Date: Dec 2017       12-11-2017, 2:46 PM Reply   
Eric, I agree with you for sure. Not everyone needs AutoWake and some boats are definitely less sensitive. Plus, the truth is many people get a typical "setup" including number of passengers and where they sit, operate on the same lakes in the same areas and they never change the variables. In those cases, once you have the boat dialed in, then you really don't much from a system in terms of "reacting" to changes. However, in my experience, it typically takes someone weeks, months, and sometimes a full summer before they really get that boat dialed in. And even when you do have it all dialed in, I would guess that at least once you have had that special occasion where you had 4 or 5 extra passengers, realized how much better the wave could be, then the next day was disappointed when you couldn't duplicate that exact setup. This is where AutoWake is even nice for an experienced driver such as yourself. With the new patented draft sensor and amplitude bar, you can see exactly how much weight you are displacing every time on the water. If you look at the amplitude bar and you still have room, that means you can still add more ballast (if you wanted to). I would say most experienced "hard core" surfers have probably added bag after bag to see where the limit was of the boat not getting on plane. But even when you do that, you have no idea how much weight you are really displacing because it is just a trial and error to see if the boat will plane or not. And usually when doing that, chasing the proper setup of weight distribution can be extremely frustrating. Too much in the rear and the boat will not get on plane or if does, the wave is too tall and short. Too much in the front and the wave is too long, not the right amount of push and possibly you take water over the front. Of you do the everyone move to the front to plane, then everyone move to the back, then 2 of you move over here, now one move front, now one move back just a little, now no one move because the wave looks just right. Or at least until the rider falls. I am sure most of you experienced riders have done that at least once.

Again, I agree Eric that AutoWake is not for everyone. And it definitely is more for the inexperienced. But I really think if you gave it a shot, you might find that even the experienced drivers could benefit from this new technology.
Old    David (99Bison)      Join Date: Sep 2012       12-12-2017, 8:17 PM Reply   
Agree with most all the latest commentary here.

IMHO the goal and premise for autowake is fantastic for both experienced and not. I donít know if Iíve ever been on a wake boat where we werenít tweaking at least something that day.
Old    Matt Brown (mattbrown)      Join Date: Dec 2017       Yesterday, 8:29 AM Reply   
I also forgot to mention that many of the 2018 Moomba improvements are available as a software update for the 2017 Moomba models with AutoWake. Obviously the 2017 models would not have a draft sensor so those improvements would require addition of the draft sensor, but the predictive state technology is on the software update. In 2017, the biggest drawback with AutoWake was speed of the system. Without predictive state, the system didn't "react" until boat was up to speed and if the passengers or ballast was way off, then it took a while with the 3 pumps to get the hull in the right position. Now with the predictive state, the system can get the boat's hull position very close while the rider is getting ready and this really speeds up the performance of the system. As Spencer said, adding the 6 pumps for 2018 makes that again even faster, but anyone with a 2017 Moomba should get the update and I think you will really notice a difference.

And David, thanks for the positive comments. I will stop "selling" the system and our brand, but just keep in mind that this is just the beginning. Hopefully you will continue to see more and more improvements in this direction in the years to come.

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